All Boards >> Eating for IBS Diet Board

Posts     Flat       Threaded

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
self-hypnosis for IBS - other techniques
      #361745 - 10/29/10 06:52 AM
CellSalts_Work

Reged: 08/15/10
Posts: 225


1. even approved by the NHS. imagine a river flowing through your digestive tract. if you have C, imagine the river speeding up. if you have D, imagine the river slowing down.

2. imagine soothing music being played in your intestines

3. don't be angry or annoyed with your digestion. instead nurture your bowels like a child, show some kind of understanding towards them. (bit too far fetched for my rational mind)

4. breathe out through your bowels

5. imagine a protective layer within your digestive tract that makes for smooth bowel movements

Apparently there are dozens more, but my course leader mentioned these examples when I asked her.

Depending on the individual you may also find useful 'commands' like : 'move' 'calm' or even scientific ones like 'my brain sends the right message and it is taken up correctly by the receptors in digestive tract'. I know I have. It's worthwhile to experiment and as I said do it regularly, otherwise it doesn't really work.

--------------------
Susie, born in 1985,
(pseudo-)D and bloating April 2007-December 2010, now stable



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: self-hypnosis for IBS - other techniques new
      #361747 - 10/29/10 07:26 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Thank you for posting this information. I didn't realize the NHS approved the use of self-hypnosis for IBS. It could be partly due to Prof Whorwell's work. He is a GI research doc in the UK who first developed gut-directed hypnosis for IBS in 1980s. Would you please email a copy of the pdf.

Cheers

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: self-hypnosis for IBS - other techniques new
      #361753 - 10/29/10 02:33 PM
Marilyn

Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 1372


THE UK's NICE Guidelines for IBS launched in Feb 2008 suggests hypnotherapy as one of the treatment protocols if after 12 months of "orthodox' treatment has been ineffective. Again, as a 'last resort.' I find it interesting that something that seems to work effectively after all else has failed, is used last. Common sense would say to try it first or at least with the others!

Dr Whorwell first published his findings in the Lancet in 1984; I believe the river imagery is his. A similar protocol is being used by the UNC in conjunction with his work.

Thank you for sharing the self-help tips! These are great.

For those of us who need extra guidance and a complete IBS hypnotherapy protocol as well as support, the IBS Audio Program can provide it. While all hypnotherapy/hypnosis is actually self hypnosis, having guidance for the sessions takes away the act of "thinking" about what imagery you will use and provides it for you.

These guidelines are very helpful though - thanks for sharing!





--------------------
My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

I too love that what works when nothing else does is recommended last instead of first! How crazy. -nt- new
      #361756 - 10/29/10 04:06 PM
HeatherAdministrator

Reged: 12/09/02
Posts: 7799
Loc: Seattle, WA



--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: I too love that what works when nothing else does is recommended last instead of first! How crazy. -nt- new
      #361765 - 10/30/10 05:39 AM
CellSalts_Work

Reged: 08/15/10
Posts: 225


I just don't understand why hypnosis has a bad rap or why indeed it's not more widespread as basically there is no side effects, it's not proper medicine and you can improve so many things about your life through it, if you keep at it.

There really is just one thing you have to be careful about and that is taking away pain. Pain is very often there for a reason (obviously not in the case of IBS) but the mind boggles as to why a non-chemical remedy would not be recommended as the first course of action!

--------------------
Susie, born in 1985,
(pseudo-)D and bloating April 2007-December 2010, now stable



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: I too love that what works when nothing else does is recommended last instead of first! How crazy. -nt- new
      #361768 - 10/30/10 09:41 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


All I needed was the hypno. Nothing else seemed to work. I use it alone...period. It is all that has worked for me. Supplements, fiber, meds, diet...none worked. But hypno does, and for some that is all that is needed.

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Something interesting new
      #361770 - 10/30/10 10:17 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Interestingly the father of gut directed hypnotherapy, Prof Whorwell, recommends that it be intergrated with other approaches and not used stand alone. One of the reasons he gives is that hypnotherapy has finite success (about 70%) and those that don't respond can get quite despondent as they usually see it as there last chance for improvement in quality of life. Another reason is the majority of IBS suffers have mild symptoms which are usually managed throught dietary and life style changes. In one of his recent articles Whorwell says it would be inappropriate to use hypnotherapy before trying an exclusion of insoluble fibre.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361771 - 10/30/10 11:58 AM
CellSalts_Work

Reged: 08/15/10
Posts: 225


Agreed, but surely with someone who is susceptible to hypnosis maybe even IF may be tolerated in time and they can basically eat like a normal person then on.

To be honest the EFI diet is not detrimental at all, what I meant and I'd personally be against is prescribed medication.

--------------------
Susie, born in 1985,
(pseudo-)D and bloating April 2007-December 2010, now stable



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361772 - 10/30/10 12:23 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

You might be right. However, Whorwell was also the GI doc who originally figured out IF was determental to IBS. He has loads of experience in his GI practice with dietary management techniques and hypnosis so I value his opinion

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361773 - 10/30/10 12:32 PM
CellSalts_Work

Reged: 08/15/10
Posts: 225


So do I, but since one is actually actively encouraged to vary the hypnotic techniques too (so that they are not boring), one of these days I shall proceed to hypnotising myself 'broccoli does my bowels the world of good. just as it used to'

--------------------
Susie, born in 1985,
(pseudo-)D and bloating April 2007-December 2010, now stable



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361774 - 10/30/10 12:33 PM
Marilyn

Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 1372


Yes, I am aware of his recommendations, which mirrors that of most physicians, except of course, that he does include hypnotherapy as an option.

Actually, I have met the good doctor in person and attended several of his lectures (though he would not remember me, it was with many others at a symposium.)

In the real world, it is very rare that hypnotherapy would be the first thing tried in any circumstance, because our medical system is just not set up that way.

IBS patients seek out hypnotherapy when nothing has worked at the doctor's office. Anything outside the mainstream is suspect, even if it does work, and statistics found in studies do not always reflect what goes on in the real world. There are so many variables!

If exclusion of insoluable fiber, addition of SF, diet and lifestyle changes work - then hurray and I am super happy for those IBS patients that can address their symptoms this way.

But the fact remains, for those of us who are severe, refractory (which means nothing tried has helped satisfacorily)and who are at their wit's end, hypnotherapy has been the journey forward and the first glimpse at getting their life back.

No amount of reasons negates that. But medical protocols preclude trying it first, because it just isn't done! Not because it won't work!

So those of us who were despondant from all the other things not working have to wait and wait until we stumble upon the hypnotherapy via our own research (since it isnt suggested as a rule by docs)because of reported finite success - which still supercedes other treatment methods that have failed.

If you would apply that thinking to any other disease or health condition, it would be so irrational.


I do think using hypno as an adjunct with other treatments is fine. But then what are you treating? IBS symptoms are so similar to other digestive conditions - are you treating a lack of fiber, or the wrong fiber in your diet that causes IBS symptoms? Once that is addressed, is that what IBS "is" - a fiber adjustment needed in the diet?

If it was, then every single IBS patient would simply need to adjust their fiber and there would be no more IBS - but because there are so many different treatments, and so many people being helped with different ways for them - (calcium, imodium, prescription meds, supplements, SSRIs, antidepressents, diets, off-label uses of other meds) and I speak from experience - it is trial and error for most IBS patients when it comes to treatment.


Most of Michael's patients are so beaten down from years of trying things that didnt help. So then they are helped, in addition to removing years of pain and frustration. So, if docs did suggest hypno first (for their more severe patients) and then have 70% be helped, with the remaining 30% to go on to try meds, diet, fiber, etc. would that really be a bad thing?!

I guess it is perspective; since I speak with so many IBS sufferers who ARE despondant, sometimes bringing tears to my eyes, and having been there myself, I am passionate about helping those who suffer. I did my pre-grad work at a school affiliated with Mayo Clinic; my friends and family are in the medical field, and they too know the frustration of not being able to help people heal. So that is where I am coming from. IBS since 1983; being helped or helping on the BBs since 2000 - not because I have to be here, just giving back what was given to me - support!

Thanks for your insights and info! It is good to be informed.

--------------------
My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361775 - 10/30/10 01:15 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Ah ha - It is a pleasure to meet someone who has meet him too. A very gentle man! And he has made so many important contributions to managing our common disorder.


--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Something interesting new
      #361779 - 10/30/10 04:17 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Thanks Marilyn, you are a wealth of information! Love when you set people straight.

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361784 - 10/31/10 09:28 AM
kem

Reged: 06/09/10
Posts: 104


This makes me want to ask . . . considering that the info regarding IF originated w/such a respected member of the gastro-MD world . . . what on earth is the medical community's excuse for not sharing - with each other and their suffering patients! - the information regarding the fiber situation?!

I can stretch myself to imagine excuses for resisting the hypno - even though such resistance is illogical at best and irresponsible at worst! - but this is much more of a mystery to me. ?

kem (daughter w/ibs-d)


Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361785 - 10/31/10 09:46 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Excellent question. I have asked it myself many times Unfortunately, it appears to take a considerable amount of time for the information on IF to circulate through the medical community. Why I don't know. It was reported by UK GI docs first in this 1994 article and then again in 1998 article. It has been confirmed a number time since. This information appears to be slowly penetrating the general medical community.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361788 - 10/31/10 10:09 AM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hi Syl, is your view that all whole grains aggravate IBS, or only whole wheat?

Someone on here recommended Manna bread to me, which I've been eating this week (a sprouted wheat, millet and rice version), but I'm guessing you wouldn't endorse it?

--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361789 - 10/31/10 10:38 AM
kem

Reged: 06/09/10
Posts: 104


Quote:

it appears to take a considerable amount of time for the information on IF to circulate through the medical community.




Yes. But you know what? 16 years is a bit more than "considerable;" that's unreasonable no matter how you look at it. (Hey, we all know that new drugs w/less efficacy are pushed thru' the system in months.) It would be laughable, if we weren't talking about actual PAIN, here!

Sigh.

I think that means it's unfairly but terribly important for all of you guys who do this to, please, keep talking about it! I really think that's a portion of the reason that it's possible for something like this to occur: There are a lot of reasons for people w/IBS not to want to talk about it. Thank goodness some of you do talk about it! Be loud. Desperately hurting people (and desperately determined parents!) are trying to hear you above the din. Be loud.

kem (daughter w/ibs-d dx)

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361790 - 10/31/10 10:54 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Generally speaking the bran in whole cereal grains (wheat, rice, corn, etc) is the culprit. The IF in fruit and veggies appears to somewhat more tolerable but can still be problematic for many.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: something interesting / something inexplicable? new
      #361793 - 10/31/10 11:16 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

And if we could only get Dr. Oz on side. I cringe every time I hear him recommend high fiber diet for IBS without qualifying the difficulties of IF, particularly cereal bran. Perhaps we should start a write-in/email blitz


--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

now that WOULD be loud . . . - nt new
      #361795 - 10/31/10 12:04 PM
kem

Reged: 06/09/10
Posts: 104




Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

In 2000, when Eating for IBS came out, I had a board certified gastroenterologist new
      #361812 - 11/01/10 09:28 AM
HeatherAdministrator

Reged: 12/09/02
Posts: 7799
Loc: Seattle, WA

ask me if I invented the term "insoluble fiber". I am not joking.

- H

--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

That's just new
      #361821 - 11/01/10 01:33 PM
Marilyn

Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 1372


crazy nuts!!!

But I am not surprised.

I have encountered similar reactions from gastroenterologists over the years with various common sense and fairly widely known treatment suggestions- calcium, the hypnotherapy of course, fennel, peppermint.

Many seem to be overworked, overbooked, and not apprised of some of the research - unless it crosses their desk via a drug rep. The GIs that seem open are usually ones from teaching hospitals connected to a university; many others who do local symposiums that I have attended in the past, just brushed over the research, if at all.

Thanks Heather, for continuing to help others help themselves!

--------------------
My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: In 2000 . . . I had a board certified gastroenterologist . . . new
      #361830 - 11/02/10 09:25 AM
kem

Reged: 06/09/10
Posts: 104


It just freaks me out to realize that apparently nothing has changed in 10 years, judging by my recent encounters with specialists, any way. They've brewed up some kind of a mess here . . .

kem





Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: In 2000, when Eating for IBS came out, I had a board certified gastroenterologist new
      #361832 - 11/02/10 10:05 AM
bermudakate

Reged: 11/06/07
Posts: 125


oh my god. wow. that is sad!!!!!

--------------------
stable IBS-A

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Even worse, it seems the same to me now as it was in the '70s! new
      #361837 - 11/02/10 11:55 AM
HeatherAdministrator

Reged: 12/09/02
Posts: 7799
Loc: Seattle, WA

That's when I first saw doctors for IBS (though of course it was decades before I was actually properly diagnosed). And the comments, attitude, lack of tests, lack of treatments, lack of anything remotely helpful or reassuring, is frighteningly similar to the stories I still hear from people today.

I know there are great docs out there for IBS - I've met some and heard of many others - but there are still far, far, far too many who are exactly like the incompetent, ignorant, unsympathetic, and flat out awful docs (from pediatricians to internists to gastroenterologists) I dealt with almost 40 years ago.

I swear there is something peculiar about IBS and doctors that leads to horror stories I just don't hear about with, say, dermatologists or opthamologists. I really hope that is at least starting to change.

- H

--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Even worse, it seems the same to me now as it was in the '70s! new
      #361844 - 11/02/10 05:58 PM
kem

Reged: 06/09/10
Posts: 104


Quote:

there is something peculiar about IBS and doctors that leads to horror stories I just don't hear about with, say, dermatologists or opthamologists.




When I think of the ibs patients I've met - they're too exhausted, too sick, and too humiliated to be able to question or educate the downright wrong doctors they come across. (Who could blame them?!) I think that's what's different between them and a dermatologist's patients. Add to that, there's no local networking going on between ibs patients (thanks to the embarrassment factor, I suppose), so there's no word-of-mouth effect keeping the bad docs office's any less full than the good ones. The bad and ignorant docs get no feedback. (I know when I left a horrible GI doc in the dust, I couldn't afford to give her a backward glance - let alone a piece of my mind - PRECISELY because my kid was worse than when I walked in there!) And where I live, the docs never even feel it when a disgruntled patient leaves because they've still got months of appts. booked. Ironically, the fact that ibs is so rampant assures that. So what's to stop them from just doing what they were taught in the seventies, and even feeling pretty good about themselves, too? Ya can't make this stuff up!

[So there's the amateur analysis of an ibs mom. ]

kem (daughter w/ibs-d dx)

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Even worse, it seems the same to me now as it was in the '70s! new
      #361852 - 11/02/10 07:13 PM
Marilyn

Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 1372


I hear ya -

I have had several internal med docs and several GI docs - a few were good and actually asked ME to do research for them because they did not have the time themselves and to report back!

Most tried everything under the sun, even off-label use of drugs for me - I have been on at least two drugs that are off the market now... scary.

One GI I had was from Mayo Clinic, now in UCLA and is very vested in IBS research and very well respected.

She presribed a very strong antibiotic - FLAGYL (as for a possible parasite infection, which I tested negative for, but told me to take it anyway) and a beta blocker (thought to control heart muscle rhythms and hoped it would also control intestinal muscle contractions) for me in 1993.

Fast forward to 2005, and I saw her at the DDW (Digestive Disease Week) Convention that Michael and I attended - she asked me what she did with me back then, and was appalled saying they never would do that now!

When we were at the IFFGD symposium, we had the GIs fill out info cards for us. From that we found out that GIs see between 30 - 50 IBS patients a month on average. I dont know if those were new or ongoing cases, but needless to say, IBS patients are a good part of their caseload.

I have presented IBS and hypnotherapy info at several hospital community service IBS info events, and though their power point presentation treatment charts always list hypnotherapy as a treatment, most of the time they dont actually suggest it in the real world.

The lecture glosses over it, and the same things are suggested - the questions people ask afterwards and the doctor's responses make me cringe.

When I present the info about the hypno, the nurses and patients are vastly interested; come up after to me with questions - because I have lived it - and my IBS was just as severe or more so than they are!

Over the years, we have had a few GIs routinely refer their patients for the hypotherapy program, but most rather keep their same protocol they've used for years. Even respected info medical websites still suggest pretty much the same mainstream stuff as a rule.

I do a lot of writing regarding IBS and came across some stats about CAM in both the US and EU - cant find it tonight, but basically, why do Americans and others spend so much money on CAM products to treat their conditons - it is because conventional medicine treatments do not always work! And people dont want to be on drugs forever either!

Some docs want to try new things and are open, others do not - just as it is with all walks of life and professions, I guess...

But I have met some very devoted and good docs and GI investigators too - there is hope!


--------------------
My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)

Extra information
0 registered and 2255 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Heather 

Print Thread

Permissions
      You cannot post until you login
      You cannot reply until you login
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Thread views: 11490

Jump to

| Privacy statement Help for IBS Home

*
UBB.threads™ 6.2


HelpForIBS.com BBB Business Review