Nonfat milk
#359122 - 06/08/10 05:20 AM
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I was wondering how many people still have some nonfat milk in their diets (small amounts) and if it is possible that it would be helpful for some. I find that I crave a little bit of milk. I feel like it helps to calm me down and I feel like it has the same effect on my intestines. It may make me a little gassy but I feel like a little nonfat milk in my diet helps move my bowels a little better and keeps my mood up. Heather, do you think it is necessary for everyone to remove nonfat milk from their diets, and do you believe it can actually be helpful for some?
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Re: Nonfat milk
#359124 - 06/08/10 06:29 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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A full answer to your question can be found under Dairy Products on this web page. You might check the reference below.
Reference
Anthoni, S., Savilahti, E., Rautelin, H., & Kolho, K. L. (2009). Milk protein IgG and IgA: The association with milk-induced gastrointestinal symptoms in adults . World Journal of Gastroenterology, 15(39)
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Thanks, I know that Heather says all dairy is not good for IBS but I was just wondering if she believes it may be beneficial in SMALL doses for some. Even the probiotic align has small amounts of the milk protein right? And I was wondering if there were other people who felt like I do. Looking back when I was first getting stomach problems, it was never the dairy that was the problem for me. It began with an intolerance to cereals and anything that was too insoluble and difficult to digest. For years even after I found out about IBS I would drink hot chocolate with nonfat milk in the powder with no problems. I ask because I would love to try to eat yogurt again. I am thinking of testing it out. Anyone have suggestions of a "safer" yogurt I can test this out with?
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.. and is only there as the probiotics (basically bacteria) are growth in a medium containing milk. The milk isn't an active ingredient in the treatment.
I don't think heather would say small amounts of milk are bebefical for IBS. She's always been pretty adament that it not part of EFI.
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Stable IBS D
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There is no way a little is beneficial. Can you get away with a little dairy and stay stable? yes if you are lucky but it is playing with fire. Dairy causes reactions in the gut that destabilize everything.
When I am very stable I might cook with a little parmesan since it is low fat and very low in lactose, but I do it at my own risk in very limited, infrequent amounts.
If you are looking for something to relax you, you have to change the mindset not add milk. Try ginger tea.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Well what about a little yogurt being helpful. My dad was told he has IBS and he eats yogurt every day no prob, and says its helping. And alot of other people with digestive problems are told to have yogurt, what makes them different?? I know you can have probiotics alone but I am really struggling to find things to eat! I cant eat alot of things recommended on the boards. I'm just wondering why soy is recommended instead of dairy. Soy is known to cause all sorts of hormonal imbalances, infertility, and digestive problems so isn't that something that we really should be avoiding even more so then the dairy.
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Re: Nonfat milk
#359144 - 06/08/10 08:06 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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A fundamental tenant of the EFI guidelines is no dairy. Having said that in fairness of full disclosure it should be mentioned that the IBS research shows that for some people dairy can be a problem while for others it isn't. In some instances yogurt with particular probiotics has been shown to have beneficial effects for IBS. Like so many things concerning IBS you may have to figure out what works for you.
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You would have to test it yourself. Noone on this board is going to tell you that eating dairy will be benefitial to you because it's not a part of the EFI plan.
The way I look at triggers is that some of them can be eaten in small amounts while some have to be avoided, and this is different for every one of us. For example, fats and oils - we still need some amount in our diet but not really greasy and fried things. Or chocolate - it's on the trigger list but even Heather says eating a little bit is ok (after a safe meal). Chocolate is actually a big trigger for me and I have to stay away from it completely but others on here can eat it in small amounts with no problem. So is it the same with dairy? You're the only one who can find out.
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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant 
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I have to say the same and just see what happens. I am slowly adding things back to see if it is a trigger for me and have found most dairy like plain milk butter ice cream or even yogurt is but I can cook with it and cheese does not seem to have any effect in small amounts. I think the diet is great but we are all just a little different so it is really hard to say.
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IBS-D with gas
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All of us in the IBS community have different bodies, different digestive systems, and different mindsets. So although I agree with most of the IBS diet, I have taken the liberty to eat organic yogurt and organic cheese, mostly because I was tired of eating soy cheese and I can't stand soy yogurt!
For yogurt I eat Stonyfield Farms, they have lots of variety, as well as frozen yogurt, and all include a healthy dose of probiotics. I do eat non-fat and low-fat yogurt and frozen yogurt. And for cheeses I stick to hard cheese with low lactose such as parmesan, cheddar, swiss.
I know that many people do not think eating dairy is safe, but I say just try a little at a time and see what happens. You never know until you try! As for milk, I drink almond milk and it is wonderful.
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and longest lived people in the world (also those with the lowest rates of reproductive cancers) have the highest soy intake in the world. They live in Okinawa, Japan.
- H
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Have you seen the great on-line information on the Okinawa Centenarian Study? It appears that there are many factors including genetics and activity as well as diet that contribute to their longevity.
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and also something totally off topic spiraling on the boards.
- H
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Hi Heather, Then why does my Eastern Nutrition Teacher with a Doctorate in Nutrition show us all sorts of studies about the dangers of soy tell us the opposite!!? I'm not saying at all that you are wrong and he is right but how do we ever know what to believe, it's very frustrating!! I hope you are right because I eat quite a bit of soy lechitin. So the research on the subject shows soy is safe?
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Hi - I've no idea why he would say that. The broadest scale studies of diets around the world show that populations with high soy intake (primarily these are people in Asia) have health benefits from this, not health risks.
Soy is a bean, a plant food, and one of the foods with the longest histories of human cultivation and consumption.
I rely on sources such as The China Study (T. Colin Campbell) and the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine (http://pcrm.org - and you can actually search their site for studies on soy). I'd ask your doc point blank what he thinks of info from these sources, and where he's getting his conflicting info.
I'm not the authority on soy, I just don't like a lot of the really crazy and scary misinformation I see out there. If there is legit info that overrides the heavy hitting studies in favor of soy, I'd certainly take a look.
Best,
H
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I read The China Study which REALLY makes me steer clear of dairy milk, IBS or not, and stick with rice milk.
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Ok thanks I will show him and ask him.There is so much contradictory things about soy. (Its the unfermented soy that he is talking about). He told us that Asians eat 10 x less soy then we do as Americans and he actually says it was not meant to be eaten. He lived in Japan for a few years. Here is a website of myths and truths that also says that(who knows what to believe anymore tho) But it does go along with what my teacher said. He also has his own clinic and he swears that patients who come in complaining of thryroid, digestive, and infertility problems, if they are on high soy diets, he takes them off the soy completely and they become much better. He says that a little bit of soy may be ok especially if you don't have those symptoms..but you should listen to your body and if you are having any of those symptoms that may be a clue that you are eating too much unfermented soy.
http://www.frot.co.nz/dietnet/basics/soy.htm
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article on soy outlining intake in Japan, as well.
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
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It reminds me of the truth about HFCS website that defends HFCS with half-truths and misleading information.
It is true that too much estrogen causes health problems. and it is true that soy contains a form of estrogen. BUT the form of estrogen in soy actually reduces the extra estrogen in the body due to being a different kind. Soy is very healthy for women and menopausal woman too!
As almost a vegan, I hear all that crap about the quality of protein in non-meat diets and the lack of B 12 in non-meat diets. That is BS too! Vegans do not lack B 12 since it is in other foods besides meat and the proteins in a good quality mixed food vegan diet are just as healthy as the proteins in meat. In fact a high soy vegan diet again and again proves the healthiest of all!
And I would like to see these studies about soy causing infertility in animals! Sure any GMO food is being shown to cause infertility and health problems but not regular non-GMO soy. What a ridiculous claim!
Also soy is a meat sub in the orient; I do not agree with that assertion. They eat very little meat in the traditional Asian diet. It is the westernization of Asia that has led to a change in diet and increase in health problems there.
To sum up: this website has pissed me off as bad as that Nina Planck and her claims to lard, bacon, butter and cream being healthy.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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you are completely stable and have no bad IBS days?
Oh that isn't true? If you have any issues that you cannot contribute 100% to stress/emotional factors, you need to look at your diet and whether you are in fact eating something that triggers IBS.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Little Minnie,
I don't know if your comment about being stable and having no bad IBS days was directed at me...
But to answer your question: No, I am not completely stable and I still have days when I am so bloated that I like to call myself a "pregnant whale". That is how I feel, especially because I am such a tiny person. I just recently added the organic cheese into my diet and I really haven't had any problems with it. I've read that the harder a cheese it, the less lactose it has. But because I eat organic, I don't worry about added growth hormones, color additives, or any animal by products in my cheese. I also try to buy local if I can.
I hope I haven't offended or mislead anyone, I just wanted to share my experience. I was just tired of feeling deprived and wanted to add some variety to my diet, so I went for cheese. Plus, I have been enjoying time off from school for the last month, so I can say my stress levels are way down and I've been getting a lot more sleep, which I know is helpful in keeping the digestion system in line.
If anyone has any more questions, please feel free to ask!
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Little Minnie, I would not normally necessarily trust that site either because I don't know where they got their info. The reason I posted the website is because it was right on with what my Japanese Eastern Nutrition professor told us in class. He lived in Japan for many years. I sure hope he's not telling us all BS because I'm paying a lot of money to take the class.
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Don't you always say that you always have bloating and gas no matter what you do? Do you think possibly it could be the soy?
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Don't know if the bloating question is related to me, but I have pretty much cut all the soy that I can. I don't drink soy milk anymore or use soy based margarines of cheeses. All I know is some days are better or worse than others and I try not to stress about it, I've learned to just kind of go with the flow.
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it's in the form of fresh soy milk or tofu. Neither are fermented. Miso and seitan are fermented, as is soy sauce.
Tofu is simply curdled fresh soy milk (usually coagulated with calcium).
- H
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The years of research and study that back it up are very difficult to dispute.
- H
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Well my point is that you cannot recommend a food on the trigger list and say "I have no problem with it" unless you are perfectly stable. I said I had no problems with dairy for years because the problems weren't directly after eating dairy but sort of all the time. I found out otherwise when I learned I needed to give it up.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Indeed yes, soy can cause bloating and gas. We have long discussed that and it is no secret. I avoid drinking soy milk and certain soy products lead to a full, gassy feeling. However, soy products do not cause the health problems some people out there claim. My IBS has not gotten worse the more soy I add. Transferring to vegetarian, I have increased my soy intake without increasing bloating or gas.
My bloating and gas almost disappear in summer. My diet is similar but probably less cals in summer. Therefore I conclude that non-diet reasons are partly to mostly to blame for my bloating.
This thread was not started to talk about whether soy is safe for IBS but from a claim that milk is soothing and not a trigger. Not eating milk and eating soy are not necessarily related. One can cut out milk but not include soy. To put it another way, when you cut out milk you don't have to add in soy. So don't listen to anyone who tells you soy is bad so you better drink dairy instead. That makes no sense.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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From looking at the research and hearing stories about many of his patients, I choose to believe that soy can be harmful for your health and I am going to try to get off all soy as best I can. You don't have to agree but I would make sure if you are eating a lot of soy, to make sure you have enough iodine in your diet so you don't end up on hypothyroid medicine. You don't have to believe that either I'm just trying to let you know what I have heard, you can decide for yourself. I wasn't told to eat dairy, I just notice it doesn't make me all that sick and I was hoping to add a few healthy foods that had a little dairy back in to my diet. For years I would try to avoid things like macaroni and cheese and make soy mac and cheese. And truth is, the soy mac and cheese makes me 10x more sick then the regular! Then I hear all this info about soy in class and I was just trying to help in letting you all know. How do you know its not like the story where they tell you fat and bacon are good for you. How can you be sure what they are telling you about soy is not just to make money!
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Re: so I assume
#359254 - 06/13/10 02:03 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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You might direct your teacher to the following review of the effect of soy protein and soybean isoflavones on thyroid function (See Reference below)
"Soy foods are a traditional staple of Asian diets but because of their purported health benefits they have become popular in recent years among non-Asians, especially postmenopausal women. There are many bioactive soybean components that may contribute to the hypothesized health benefits of soy but most attention has focused on the isoflavones, which have both hormonal and nonhormonal properties. However, despite the possible benefits concerns have been expressed that soy may be contraindicated for some subsets of the population. One concern is that soy may adversely affect thyroid function and interfere with the absorption of synthetic thyroid hormone. Thus, the purpose of this review is to evaluate the relevant literature and provide the clinician guidance for advising their patients about the effects of soy on thyroid function. In total, 14 trials (thyroid function was not the primary health outcome in any trial) were identified in which the effects of soy foods or isoflavones on at least one measure of thyroid function was assessed in presumably healthy subjects; eight involved women only, four involved men, and two both men and women. With only one exception, either no effects or only very modest changes were noted in these trials. Thus, collectively the findings provide little evidence that in euthyroid , iodine-replete individuals, soy foods, or isoflavones adversely affect thyroid function. In contrast, some evidence suggests that soy foods, by inhibiting absorption, may increase the dose of thyroid hormone required by hypothyroid patients. However, hypothyroid adults need not avoid soy foods. In addition, there remains a theoretical concern based on in vitro and animal data that in individuals with compromised thyroid function and/or whose iodine intake is marginal soy foods may increase risk of developing clinical hypothyroidism. Therefore, it is important for soy food consumers to make sure their intake of iodine is adequate."
Reference
Messina, M., & Redmond, G. (2006). Effects of soy protein and soybean isoflavones on thyroid function in healthy adults and hypothyroid patients: A review of the relevant literature.. . Thyroid, 16(3), 249-258
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Ok I will thx but it does say there were some modest changes in some of the trials so what exactly does that mean? And how long were they eating soy and how much and what soy products were they given? Thats all important.
The last sentence does says that soy consumers should make sure their iodine is adequate.
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I am sure soy is fine for woman but not so sure about men. I have read quite a few recent studies that show significant findings that soy will increase estrogen levels in men if consuming more than about 25 grams per day.
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Re: so I assume
#359263 - 06/13/10 08:50 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
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It is a review of many studies. He will have to look at the individual studies to get the details. They are referenced in the article. Everyone needs some iodine in there diet about 100 micrograms which is quite easy to get from a normal diet particularly if you use iodized salt.
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You may want to check this recent article (see reference below). It reviewed the research to date and found "that isoflavones do not exert feminizing effects on men at intake levels equal to and even considerably higher than are typical for Asian males". In the body of the article it concludes "the clinical evidence overwhelmingly indicates that there is essentially no basis for concern. Isoflavone exposure at levels even greatly exceeding reasonable dietary intakes does not affect blood T or estrogen levels in men or sperm and semen parameters". There is a lot of misinformation floating around about soy.
Reference
Messina M., Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence , Fertility and Sterility, 93, 7, pp 2095-2104, 2010
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Syl, I went to the same website you did and found articles that say the opposite so how do you know what to believe?
Also, my teacher who is telling us this information has been working with people for 35 years in a clinic and has witnessed the effects of soy and how when they get off the soy their symptoms improve. He has also witnessed women who are all about a high soy diet often end up with thyroid problems. I believe what he says.
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That web site is the U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health web site. It indexes articles irrespective if they are good, bad or otherwise. If you do a search using "soy AND thyroid" you will notice that many of the articles refer to research on mice, rats, dogs and other animals. These results cannot be translated to similar effects in humans. You might check with your GP or an endocrinologist who can enlighten you more about the accuracy of what you are being taught.
What is the name of school at which you are taking your naturopathy course?
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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