Fatty Liver
#19180 - 08/31/03 03:23 PM
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Tim G
Reged: 08/07/03
Posts: 95
Loc: NSW, Australia
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Hi Guys,
I was wondering if anyone else here was suffering / has suffered with 'Fatty Liver'?
I saw a new specialist the other week who pointed out an issue with the blood test results that I had taken along as they were almost double what they should have been and apparently indicated a 'Fatty Liver'. He also suggested that as my liver was underfunctioning, it could be leaving additional toxins in the blood which in turn could be having a destabilising effect on my Colon and was a likely cause or trigger for my IBS. I couldn't believe that the three other specialists had 'missed it'.
It kind of makes sense to me that this could be the case and I am now working to try and resolve the 'fatty liver' issue aswell as sustaining the general IBS improvements.
As always, I am interested in what everyone else thinks...??
Best regards,
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Hi Guys,
I posted this once before, but seems like I am the only sufferer!!
As the two most trusted experts on IBS I was wondering if you had had any run-ins with 'Fatty Liver'?
I saw a new GI specialist the other week about my IBS and he pointed out an issue with the blood test results that I had taken along as the AST figure was slightly elevated and ALT was almost double the norm. He advised that Fatty Liver was a common problem and that this meant my liver was underfunctioning and, instead of processing fat, it was storing it.
He also explained that as the liver is the main filter for fat and toxins in the blood he felt that as mine is underfunctioning, it could be leaving additional toxins in the blood which in turn could be having a destabilising effect on my Colon and was a likely cause or trigger for my IBS.
It kind of makes sense to me that this could be the case and I am now working to try and resolve the 'fatty liver' issue aswell as sustaining the general IBS improvements, however Dr Sandra Cabot's Healthy liver diet has some conflicting ideas and things that I should be minimising for my IBS diet are positively encouraged to improve the liver...whatever shall I do?
I would really appreciate it if you could find the time to reply. As always, I am interested in what everyone else thinks too...:)
Thanks
Tim
Best regards,
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Hi Tim! I ran across your message and it really struck me! I found Heather within the last few months and am doing better than I was before thru dietary changes. I've shared this info with my mom who is very supportive and came to me when my dad started having some of the same symptoms as me. I know that he has cirrohsis of the liver (not from alcohol consumption though!) but I didn't know what effect it had on the rest of his body. So I looked up a few websites and found out that too much animal fat can give him the lovely crampy gut and D just like what we IBSers get. Check out www.liverfoundation.org and www.liverdisease.com/nutritionalguidelines to get more info. I've given the dietary changes info to my mom because there is little chance that a 74 yr old farmer will change to a more vegetarian way of eating unless he is properly motivated.  He can still have some meat but needs more proteins from plant sources. He has cut out all alcohol, eats less salt and is starting a list of meats that hurt his gut. I'm proud of him!
Hope the info helps. Good luck to you!!
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Hi Tim - I'm not super familiar with fatty liver, and actually I'd thought this was something that mostly affected older people so I'm surprised they found this. But I'm glad they did, especially as three other docs missed it.
I've read Cabot's book and she does have some really good advice. You can actually combine her dietary info with the IBS diet pretty easily. The only thing to watch for is make sure you're getting enough soluble fiber, which she doesn't emphasize as much, and make sure you're eating all the insoluble fiber foods she relies on very carefully, according to the IBS guidelines.
If you can hang in there a few days I'm going to get Will to post info about this. He's really familiar with fatty liver and Cabot's book and should have some very helpful suggestions. He's down for the count with a head cold right now though, so hold tight. 
- Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Hi Catherine,
Thanks for the info. My consumption of animal fats should be pretty low as I haven't had beef for over twelve years, since Mad cow hit England, and as I didn't miss it I have never gone back. Similar story with pork and lamb though probably more recent (about 5 years). I normally exist on a diet of chicken and fish, though I was a real cheese addict which has stopped since IBS hit so maybe that'll help in the longer term. I will check out the links you sent through and see how things go.
Thanks again
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Hi Heather,
Yeah I thought Fatty Liver hit older people...guess I was wrong (though I have to say I've been feeling pretty old and worn out recently with the persistent IBS attacks!!)
I had decided to focus on getting the liver back into service by eating all the green leafy veg, garlic, onions along with taking a liver tonic in the hope that it would kill off the IBS symptoms when my liver was back on track...clearly it was way too fast and I now see that I should have taken things a lot slower. The GI specialist did say that it could take up to a year of good 'healthy' living to get the thing back on track (though somehow I am supposed to lose 5-8kg over that period which, even with 3 hrs cardio exercise a week is just not happening).
Anyway, more than happy to wait for a few days for Will, and thanks so much for getting back to me. Wish him all the best for me, and hope he get's well soon!
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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My Liver is still fat...any news?
Thanks
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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I'd be interested to read any new posts in this thread as well, as my boyfriend's mother, who had had a diagnosis of IBS, was recently hospitalized and finally diagnosed with fatty liver.
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Hi Tess (and Tim) - I've reminded Will about this. He's just been swamped with work lately. I'm going to try and get him to answer over the weekend when he'll have some time.
So sorry for the delay...
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Hi TessLouise,
OK, now I am curious. Do you know whether she didn't really have IBS but a fatty liver instead, or whether she had IBS but also a fatty liver that was contributing to her IBS symptoms? I would be really interest to know.
Thanks and best regards
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Well, that's my question too, actually. Okay, keep in mind that I've never met this woman (I know, I know...boyfriend keeps putting it off...). Anyway, she's in her mid-50s (I think around the same age as my mom, maybe a bit older), lost a great deal of weight in the last few years but is still on the heavy side, smokes, works very, very long hours so doesn't get much sleep, and works as a cook so she doesn't cook for herself when she gets home--too burned out. (Oh, this sounds so unflattering, I hope she never accesses the boards! ) I don't know how long she's had the IBS diagnosis--I've talked to her about quitting smoking (she's in the process right now) and about the diet, but I'm not sure she's interested. Finally, just recently she was diagnosed with fatty liver after being hospitalized for several days with a fever and dehydration and having a ton of tests come back negative. That's about all I know, and it doesn't form a coherent picture for me. I guess that's what I'm looking for--a coherent picture. Does that make sense?
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We're in the same boat then!!
My specialist seemed to think that fatty liver may be an aggravator but not necessarilly the cause, suggesting that my IBS was most likely brought on by stress.
Anyhoo, per my previous note he seemed to feel that the fatty liver could be improved by losing a few pounds (Yeah..Okay!! More than a few (3-5kg to be precise)) and cutting out any Caffeine, Chocolate, Nuts or Fried Food along with taking a walk every day for about 30-40 mins and drinking 6-8 glasses of water.
He also suggested, though I haven't followed this up with my GP yet, that if my IBS-d didn't calm down shortly I should get my GP to prescribe something called Sinequan which apparently was an early anti-depressant originally prescribed for kids that wet the bed, but is known to have a relaxing effect on the bowel and should help with the stress. (I will talk to my doc on Tuesday about that!!)
Best
Tim
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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I understand how you feel tim, I have been suffering off and on with IBS for a couple of years and my physician (back in July after reviewing my latest round of tests) informed me that I had a fatty liver and that my enzymes were high. I have searched high and low on the internet for information regarding fatty liver, the problem is none of them supply any links, they all say there are no exact symptoms, just to utilize a low fat diet and get plenty of exercise. I was told by my doctor to engage in aerobic exercise atleast 30 min a day atleast 5 days a week, cut out the salt and fat, and drink atleast 64 oz. of water a day. If anyone has any information on the subject it would be most appreciative. By the way I am 23 years old!!!!
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that if he doesn't answer this post soon I'll have to get rough.
- Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Hi Heather,
Looks like the threats didn't work on Will eh? Never mind, I'm getting into the Sandra Cabot book now.
The other good news is that my GI Specialist prescribed something called Sinequan for me which was apparently one of the early Anti-depressants. The big plus is that for over a week now I have had normal BM's, still a little more frequent than I would like and I am still getting the occasional stomach pains but at least I'm feeling a little more in control.
I up the dosage of Sinequan on the weekend and hope that that will reduce the frequency bit, but we'll have to see how things go.
Sorry I have been absent for a while, things have been crazy after the storm and I am also trying to keep up with a demanding return to work schedule (though there hasn't been too much luck there recently!!)
Anyway, all the best
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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No kidding, last night I got to wondering where you were and what has happening. I am really glad to hear the new drug is helping - that's terrific. Sometimes the old drugs are the best - tried and true, and least all side effects will be well-known, so you're not in for any unhappy surprises.
I am STILL nagging Will to post about the fatty liver. I'll go throw something at him right now.
- Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Ouch! My head hurts. 
Last thing I remember was something flying across the room and this time it was bigger and heavier than usual. I don't know how long I have been unconscious but it must have been a while because this last post dates back a week ago.
Seriously folks, don't get Heather mad at you, she may look cute but she really packs a punch.
Tim, I am posting to you. If the help I give is useless, it's because of the concussion I have and it's all your fault. Look for my reply to your last post.
Will
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So, if someone with IBS had this, it would have shown up in blood tests? Does it cause IBS-C or -D?
Best of Luck,
Shanna
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"The most wasted of all days is one without laughter." -- e e cummings
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Hi Will,
Hmmm...I'm either really stupid (it's possible! ) or the IBS has finally spread to my brain and is preventing me finding the post that you speak of!!
I hope Heather didn't do too much damage to you!! (Thanks Heather  ). No, seriously I'm not like that and anything outside of minor maiming is a little too excessive!! (But then again!! )
Anyhow, if you can send me link to the illusive reply I would much appreciate it.
Thanks and all the best
--------------------
Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Hi Tim,
I have a pretty long post going and haven't finished it. I will try to get it done by tomorrow.
In the mean time, have you heard of Hawthorne Berries? If you have a big health food store near you, you will probably only find them there or a herbal shop. I have to get mine from herb stores in China Town here in Seattle as that is the only place I have seen them. The Chinese are not likely to know what you are talking about and they call them "San Tshou" (I am not sure how close this will come to pronouncing it property). They have tones and San is a high flat tone and Tschou is a falling note (high to low). Tschou is probably pronounced Tsjow and you almost don't hear the TS.
These berries are sliced and dried and come in one pound bags. They have a lot to do with saving my life.
Take a very large mug and put about a half cup of them in the bottom. Pour boiling water over them and steep so it makes a nice hot sour tea. Drink on an empty stomach (might give you heart burn and if so, lighten up on it) 2 - 3 times a day. This tea is drunk by the Chinese to lower cholesterol and it does a fantastic job of dissolving hardened bile in the liver and gall bladder. Quit eating any saturated fat until you solve this problem.
In the mean time, Granny Smith apples are fantastic as well. Have one on an empty stomach in the morning and at night (peel for ibs, I don't know how sensitive you are) before you go to bed or juice them. Other apples just don't have the same effect and are one tenth as effective.
You need to clean your liver out to solve the fat problem. Eat only good oils such as Olive Oil, Flax, fish oils, Grape Seed, Avocado and so on. You really need to study up on oils, there is a lot to know.
I am not a doctor. I may not know what I am talking about. This just worked for me when twenty different doctors said I was fine yet I almost died. I just had to figure things out for myself.
I will post more later and I hope this helps. Actually, I am going to wait to hear from you to see if you are taking the apples.
Tim, you will get better and overcome this. This is one area doctors just can't help you and you will have to take responsibility for this yourself.
Good luck,
Will
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Hey Tim,
I know you are sitting there feeling a little doubtful. Give this an honest try. You should be sitting there feeling very exicited about this. If I am correct, you will be feeling quite a bit better in a few days. If you have any questions write me right away.
If you start feeling better, don't overdo things and try to go slow. I told this to another guy and he didn't listen. He started feeling better than he had in 10 years and went drinking, started eating a bunch of crap, and went overboard with working out and working at his job too hard and too long and had some serious rebounds. He had Hepatitis and I can't remember the type.
Will
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Hey Tim,
I don't know if you have seen my post to you or not so I am throwing you a bone here just in case you have missed it.
As I said in my last post, I am waiting for a little feed back from you to see if there was anything of value in what I said. I just don't want to invest a lot of time building more info if the last bit I sent isn't up your alley.
If you are trying the tea and or the green apples I'd like to know how that is working and we can move forward from there.
Either way, I wish you the best,
Will
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Hi Will,
Yeah I am on the green apples twice a day; not sure whether it's improved things yet but hope to get another blood test in Q1, 2004 so I will see whether things are improving.
Thanks for your help and best wishes to Heather and yourself this Christmas!!
Regards
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Hey there Tim
Although I haven't been diagnosed with a liver problem, some of my friends have had great success with the diet and when I saw that it actually markets to people with IBS and/or chronic constipation (ie me), I decided to try it. The only change I've made is that I dissolved my 2 tablespoons of Benefiber into the water + lemon juice you're supposed to have as soon as you wake up. I haven't had vegetable or fruit juice for ages, so I felt a bit funny ordering my carrot, celery and parsley juice this morning. I'll let you know how things go! I think I'll stick on the first stage of the diet for longer than the usual 2 weeks - I think I'll keep it going until after Christmas and then I'll hit the really strict part.
I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make as I'm already dairy-free, red-meat-free, fried-free etc, but I think it's worth a shot.
Heather's diet has helped me enormously thus far and I'm a million % better... I'm just curious to see if this helps even more.
Will let you know
Jo
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You have a fatty liver...and you went to 20 different docs...and none of them knew what was wrong? That is SO upseting! How did you find out in the end that that was the problem? I've gone to several docs...some have said I'm fine...but I'm most definately not (I even got fired from a job for being sick too often)! I am wondering how you figured things out on your own...any advice?
Thanks!
Your co-board-moderator,
Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Hi Jo,
It would be great to hear how you get on; I'm not keen on the whole vege-juice thing, fruit is cool but my wife tried me on some vege-juices 3-4 years ago (pre-IBS) and after about half a glass I felt really nauseous and it lasted for 2-3 hours. I love vege's cooked (or raw in some cases) but the juices turn my stomach...not sure why...maybe they're just too good
Anyway let me know how you go and thanks.
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Tim
-A poor man's Jamie Oliver...without the attitude!
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Quote:
Hey Tim,
I don't know if you have seen my post to you or not so I am throwing you a bone here just in case you have missed it.
As I said in my last post, I am waiting for a little feed back from you to see if there was anything of value in what I said. I just don't want to invest a lot of time building more info if the last bit I sent isn't up your alley.
If you are trying the tea and or the green apples I'd like to know how that is working and we can move forward from there.
Either way, I wish you the best,
Will
Hello Will,
I realize that I am replying to a very old post, but I am hoping that this reply reaches you nonetheless. I too suffer from "Fatty Liver". I am presently trying
to track down the Hawthorne Berries, once I do, I will get the Granny Smith apples and I will try out your treatment plan.
In your reply to Tim, you mentioned that there is more info to share, but Tim
decided to disappear. I will not! I will post my results faithfully so that you
can share more of your protocol with me and others who might be in the same boat. I just need to know that you are still around and willing to work
with me on curing my "Fatty Liver".
It's such a shame that the internet, after all these years, doesn't have much info on a treatment plan for this malady.
I hope to hear from you soon. I just registered & I hope that I have selected the right settings, which will inform me of your reply to me. Just in case,
I will periodically check back to this thread, to make sure I haven't missed
your reply.
Thank you
Irene
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Quote:
Hey Tim,
I don't know if you have seen my post to you or not so I am throwing you a bone here just in case you have missed it.
As I said in my last post, I am waiting for a little feed back from you to see if there was anything of value in what I said. I just don't want to invest a lot of time building more info if the last bit I sent isn't up your alley.
If you are trying the tea and or the green apples I'd like to know how that is working and we can move forward from there.
Either way, I wish you the best,
Will
Hello Will,
I realize that I am replying to a very old post, but I am hoping that this reply reaches you nonetheless. I too suffer from "Fatty Liver". I am presently trying
to track down the Hawthorne Berries, once I do, I will get the Granny Smith apples and I will try out your treatment plan.
In your reply to Tim, you mentioned that there is more info to share, but Tim
decided to disappear. I will not! I will post my results faithfully so that you
can share more of your protocol with me and others who might be in the same boat. I just need to know that you are still around and willing to work
with me on curing my "Fatty Liver".
It's such a shame that the internet, after all these years, doesn't have much info on a treatment plan for this malady.
I hope to hear from you soon. I just registered & I hope that I have selected the right settings, which will inform me of your reply to me. Just in case,
I will periodically check back to this thread, to make sure I haven't missed
your reply.
Thank you
Irene
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