Does this diet work for anyone with IBS-C?
#183632 - 06/05/05 09:36 AM
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I'm completely exasperated at this point. I had to stop taking the Fruit-Eze because it was making the gas and bloating so much worse. When I stopped that, the temporary improvement in BMs stopped. Same story with magnesium.
So I decided to do the BTC diet for a few days to see if that helped. Still had tons of gas, bloating and cramping. I'm really beginning to doubt that I have IBS, or that this diet is helpful for people with IBS-C.
Arrrggghhh!
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Well, I have the same fear for myself. When I first found the sight, I was in seventh heaven. I thought I had found my solution. But like you, I have found no relief and I have been at this for about 8 months...having started it sort of, before registering. I never eat trigger foods, EVER, but have yet to see any relief. 
Maybe I don't have IBS either???
I know others C folks have found relief so it must work for some. But IMHO, it does seem to work faster and better for the D folks.
I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what other diet to try if not Heathers. That's why I keep hoping it will "kick in"...but I may be beating a dead horse. I mean, 8 months...isn't that long enough to feel some type of relief in either the gas, bloat, constipation, or pain? Relief in just one of those areas would be nice. But so far, all of them are the same degree of horror. 
I agree, Arrrgggggggghh!
Sorry your fruit-eze didn't help. I thought it might be too gassy. Have you tried just plain prunes at night? That is my current experiment for C. Just one large size prune on a piece of toast at night.
The BTC diet didn't help my gas, bloat, cramps either because I became more constipated and gas and bloat tend to increase for me when I am constipated.
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It does
#183687 - 06/05/05 01:43 PM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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Of course, I'm answering this as an A person, who gets both C and D, but whatever. The fact is that if you do the diet right, it will help - and yes, it DOES take quite a bit longer for C types to notice change than the D types. It's just the nature of the beast... and ANY diet for it you'll try.
Following the diet isn't as simple as "avoiding trigger foods". Eating safe soluble fiber foods isn't going to do it either. You must must must eat as many insoluble fiber foods on a daily basis as you can safely handle. Heather recommends this here on the site and in her books, and I've found it totally true based on my own experience. Don't just dig in and start eating salads, nor should you give up all the soluble foods in favor of insoluble, but you SHOULD be eating insolubles with a bit of soluble every single meal. As a rule, most C'ers can handle a LOT more insolubles than D's can, and, in fact, NEED more to get and stay stable. Heck, I'm not even a C, but if I don't eat my fruits and veggies and some whole grains every single day, the works stop up like concrete!
Other things that will help - and I'm not sure how much of this you're doing, I'm just throwing out ideas, so please forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know - drinking LOTS of water, aerobic exercise (I've found brisk walking to be just about the best), and increasing up to a full (15g) dose of a soluble fiber supplement every single day.
Please hang in there, be patient, and keep on doing your best. I had to wait 3 months to see even the slightest improvement and almost a YEAR to get to what I would call stable, but it was totally worth it!
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OK so I'm not a C, I'm a D, but I just wanted to comment on this quickly.
I agree with Casey in that this diet probably helps D's faster than C's - but just think about the very *nature* of C and D and the differences between them (um, ew yeah but you know what I mean) - it's simply going to take longer to remedy C than it is to stop D by the very nature of those two afflictions.
That doesn't mean us D-ers have it easy either though. Personally even when I stopped having to visit the bathroom 20 times a day (which, obivously, was a huge relief) I was still getting tons of bloating, cramping and gas, just like you.
Anyway, just wanted to lend some support and say hang in there 
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...I think you've missed the point of this diet. It's more about HOW you eat than WHAT you eat - that's how it works when eating gf, for fibro, or whatever.
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I too agree with Casey and Laurel. The speed of success with the diet is accelerate with those with IBS-D. It was a relief
to have the cycle of 20x toilet visits and explosive spasms, diarrhea and the cramps/bloating dissipate and disappear. It's a nice to trust my body to respond, too.
It just takes time to figure out the right balance for your body and to tune your gastro-colic reflex. Sometimes more fruits/veggies, a little more IF is needed for IBS-C. Yes, it just takes time to get a rhythm going, a momentum. Some mediation, creative visualization, hypnosis and yoga on the side could be helpful as well as lots of bottled water and some exercise.
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I'm so sorry you're still having such a terrible time.
I'm not C which means I can't speak from experience, but at the top of the BTC diet FAQ , Heather does say that constipation can take over 2 weeks to resolve. (That's 2+ weeks on her overall diet; the BTC diet is for a few days only). And it does seem logical that the step of beginning to add IF back in after 2-3 days of BTC would be crucial, especially for IBS-C. Plus, if you're starting at a low dose of SFS and going up slowly, it seems like it would take more than a few days before you're ingesting enough so your body even notices.
Having said all that, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. I'd like to think it would work for everyone with IBS because it was like a miracle for me.
I'd suggest you bump this on Monday morning when Board traffic picks up and see if you get more responses.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I really do appreciate everyone's effort to provide encouragement and support. That's why I'm here.
However, I have to vent a little bit. I exercise every day, do digestive yoga, drink peppermint tea and take the capsules, take SF supplements, meditate, am 53 days into the IBS hypnosis program (my 2nd time), receive regular bodywork/acupuncture, get a lot of emotional support, etc.
On this diet: if I simply followed the suggestion to add IF back into my diet, I wouldn't be doing anything different than I had been doing for the last six years. And that wasn't working for me.
Yes, I really do want this to work for me. But I bristle against the idea that it absolutely works for everyone, and if it isn't working, it must mean they aren't doing it right or they haven't done it for long enough.
In Cyndy's case, particularly, if she hasn't found any relief after 8 months of diligently following the dietary principles... is it at all rational to just say "keep at it?" Someone please explain to me why it should take more than 8 months, or even more than one month for that matter, for this diet/approach to work.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just get irritated when I imagine that people are being dogmatic - in this case valuing belief or opinion above experience (what is actually happening). It's a sensitive issue for me because so often I've been told "if you just do this, you'll get better." And when it doesn't work, I'm informed that 1) I've done it wrong, 2) I have to try harder, or (my personal favorite) 3) I must not WANT to heal.
Heck, I don't even know that I have "IBS", or what it means if I do. All I wanted to know is if this program has been helpful for folks with "C", not "A" or "D".
Chris
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Hi Cyndy,
This probably isn't the right place to offer this possibility, and others might not like it. But when/if you want to try something new, I know a lot of people who've had success with the Body Ecology Diet.
It didn't work for me, but perhaps it would for you. It makes a lot of sense to me and I like that it focuses on restoring the normal functioning of the digestive tract, rather than simply controlling symptoms.
I don't want to confuse you or add another log to the fire, but perhaps it's worth a try.
Also, have you had any stool tests or GI screens by reputable specialized labs like Great Smokies or BioHealth Diagnostics?
Chris
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Sorry, not following how I've "missed the point of the diet"?
I have dutifully followed the principles outlined here and in the book... eating small amounts of fat and IF always with/after a healthy dose of IF, if that's what you mean.
Chris
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Hi Sand,
I think the tricky thing is this: I get that it could take 2 weeks to improve the "C", but wouldn't I expect to see some improvement in the other symptoms along the way? Otherwise, what would lead me to believe that I'm "improving" rather than simply going along as I was?
P.S. How do I "bump" this post as you suggest?
Chris
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Hi, Chris.
Quote:
I think the tricky thing is this: I get that it could take 2 weeks to improve the "C", but wouldn't I expect to see some improvement in the other symptoms along the way? Otherwise, what would lead me to believe that I'm "improving" rather than simply going along as I was?
Unfortunately, I can't answer that from experience. I started to feel better almost as soon as I started eating as Heather suggests. You could take the attitude that since nothing else is working anyway, you're going to just do the diet for x amount of time regardless of whether you improve along the way. I know some people have said it took considerably longer than 2 weeks for them to see any improvement.
I have read your other posts in this thread and from what I can tell, you're reporting that you have been following Heather's diet for some amount of time and it's not working. Despite that, the only suggestions I can make are to start over with the BTC diet for a few days, then slowly add in IF and protein and/or to stay on Heather's for an extended period of time - at least a month, possibly as long as three months.
I'm NOT saying that you're doing the diet wrong or you're not trying hard enough and I'm certainly not saying you don't "want" to heal. (Don't get me started on the whole "illness is all in your mind" approach. You'll never hear the end of it.) I'm just saying those are the only suggestions I have. If you feel you've given Heather's diet a whole-hearted try and it just isn't working, then I don't have any other advice I can give you.
I am sorry. As I said, this diet was such a boon for me that I'd like to think everyone with IBS could benefit from it.
Quote:
P.S. How do I "bump" this post as you suggest?
Just post anything to this thread. Traditionally, people put "Bump -nt-" in the Subject line and, of course, no text. That pops it to the top of the queue, so it's more likely to be seen. You might put "Bump for C people -nt-" since that's who you most want to hear from.
Take care.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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You know...
#183801 - 06/05/05 08:43 PM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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I bristle when I'm accused of being "dogmatic". I'm a busy gal, I work from home, I have a family, I have a social life, plus I'm a moderator here and I'm involved in other internet "communities". I can't remember everyone's details, so I give answers to questions based on my own experiences and those of people I know who may or may not have time to post as often as they used to.
My general point is that if you've been doing the diet, etc for a month and you have no improvements yet, keep at it - you haven't given yourself enough time. As I stated, it took me a year to stabilize.
However, if you've been doing it for 8 months and still see no change at all, then draw your own conclusions, decide it isn't working for you, and try something else. There's no rule against that kind of thing here.
Good luck to you.
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My advice was NOT to go back to eating IF... my advice was to add it back in safely, which is not the same thing.
If you were living on salads, whole grains, lots of roughage, you were just aggravating your system more. My advice to eat them SAFELY means to eat as many as you can in a day, but eat them with some soluble fiber to cushion it in your system. Above and beyond the SFS and other supplements, this really does help.
I USED to be a straight D. When I started the IBS diet, I went straight C (until I started on antidepressants). I have enough experience dealing with C to know what I'm talking about, thank you.
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I am a C-er and nothing but a C-er. Most definitely. I will tell you that the PEPPERMINT CAPS have been one of the BEST products I have ever tried! They really helped. The diet has take-away value, but I individualize it for myself. Bor example, avoiding fruit and vegetable skins was right on target, but eating oils seems to help, not hurt my condition. Navigate around the rest of the board to answer other questions. Good luck!
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Karen from Kansas
IBS-C for 8 years
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If you want, e-mail me? I have a small network of IBS-C people who may be there to give support if you'd like that?
karenfromkansas@sbcglobal.net
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Karen from Kansas
IBS-C for 8 years
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I was not living on salads and IF. Far from it. For five years now I have been aware of how IF can make things worse for me if I'm not careful. In fact, I cannot eat legumes (including soy, which is a nightmare food for me in any form), beans, cruciferous and raw veggies at all. On the other hand, oils and fats seem to have a beneficial effect on my body in moderation (yes, even small amounts of dairy) and if I eliminate them totally, I feel horrible and my symptoms get worse.
I apologize for accusing you of being dogmatic. I just get very upset when I perceive (perceive being the key word here) that I am being told there is one way that works and it works for everyone no matter what end of story. That's not my experience, in any aspect of life.
Again, I mostly wanted to hear from IBS-C folks for whom the diet/program has been extremely helpful in relieving both their constipation and the gas/bloating/pain at the same time.
So far, no one has replied with that kind of report. I'd LOVE to hear it, believe me. It would give me some much needed encouragement and incentive to continue.
Chris
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Again, I really appreciate your support Sand.
Fortunately or unfortunately for me, I am aware of several other approaches to healing digestive disorders (such as the Body Ecology Diet mentioned elsewhere in this thread). That means that in fact I DO have other options (in my mind, at least) to consider if this diet isn't working.
That's part of the reason I'm asking so many questions, and why I get so frustrated when people seem to suggest there is only one way to get at this. Because I can go right over to the Body Ecology Diet message boards, for example, and there will be a whole other group of people that will tell you that eating wheat, most grains, soy, processed foods and sugar are POISON if you've got a gut-related problem. It is almost an opposite approach to Eating for IBS. They'll also tell you that the Body Ecology Diet changed their life and they'll do it because they really want to help and share something that was so valuable for them. Just like here.
The frustration comes to those of us who don't have the "life-changing" experiences frequently referred to by the people on the boards. Those of us still looking for answers.
Chris
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According to my doctor I am primarily IBS-C, though it manifests itself as D. Something about build up of water in the system or something. Anyway, I have found the diet very helpful in working to eliminate gas and bloating. When I follow it strictly I get good results.
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I, too, have been so frustrated by this diet & by others who seem to think just adding fiber to my diet will cause my lifelong IBS-C problems to resolve.
I do think that Heather's diet helps because it's low fat, but it simply is not a miracle cure for me either. I still have to take medication pretty much every day (Miralax), and then sometimes Zelnorm.
Having said that, I'll admit that last week I had a few drinks & ate some pizza (not all on the same day). Oh my gosh, did I have the WORST cramp attack I think I've ever had after eating the pizza. This was pain that double me over & took my breath away. I've been able to eat pizza before, but this time must have been the proverbial straw on the camel's back. The cramping lasted a few hours after dinner, and then when I woke up the next day it came back for 5 hours. I was alternately cramping & going to the bathroom. (so atleast I went, but the pain wasn't any fun)
I don't know what caused that. But I was starting to feel discomfort BEFORE the drinks & the pizza. Which makes me think that not only do I need to cut back on the drinks & pizza, but I better add more salads to my diet. Sometimes I think Heather's diet simply has too many starches in it. (Rice, potatoes, bread) Those can totally bind me up.
This IBS-C is the PITS.
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I gained a lot of weight on the IBS diet and stayed "C". I was on it for a while before I even came to this board. I have identified my list of triggers which may or may not be the same as others.
Don't be legalistic...be patient...it takes time.
--------------------
Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Poochibelly
#183936 - 06/06/05 10:43 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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So are you on this diet or have you found something else that is helping you?
It sounds like it didn't help you, but then when you said "be patient" I thought maybe you were still on it?
How did you identify your triggers and how are you helping your C?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I can say that you're probably not going to get any relief from your bloating/gas/pain until you can relieve some of your C. Just in case you didn't already figure that one out. 
Quote:
...oils and fats seem to have a beneficial effect on my body in moderation ...
That's good. This isn't a no-fat way of eating. It's good to get fats in, especially the healthy kind.
Have you ever noticed anything else that's helped relieve you any, other than the fats/oils and dairy? I mean, something you've ever noticed that got things moving? For me, honey gets me going. Not D or pain or anything, but just that "whew!", clean ya out kinda thing.  Then, one day I found out it was a natural laxative (or so they say). Anyway, I can't eat too much of that in one day! LOL So, was just wondering if you ever noticed anything like that that worked for you. (Some on the boards found that Lower Fat Oatmeal Molasses Cookies.)
Hope you get some relief soon. I hate seeing when people suffer.
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In general, one of the most difficult aspects of figuring this out has been that I have not been able to clearly identify what triggers me. Why? Because I have never gotten to a place of being symptom free, from which I could slowly add back in potential trigger foods and see how they effect me.
Even on the "breaking the cycle" diet, I still experience gas/bloating/pain (though somewhat reduced). This may be, as you suggest, partly because of the constipation (which is made much worse by the BTC diet.
Chris
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Hi there,
I read this thread of posts, and I have to say that it really started to get under my skin.
I don't want to cause any arguments, I don't want to get in the middle of anything but I felt it necessary to just say some things that bothered me out of respect for this board.
We all understand how frustrating and upsetting IBS can be. We all know how it feels to just want to scream and shout or get angry at SOMEONE because it's so d@mn hard to go through every day living with this like we do. Honestly, though, don't take it out here. Please. Tell us you're upset, we'll say we understand. Tell us you're so angry that you could hit something, we'll say "Me too!" but don't take out those feelings on the people that are trying to help you.
It seems that all too often people coming here looking for a quick fix, or for a "miracle cure" when it is stated over and over again that there is no such thing. There is no miracle cure for IBS, PERIOD. Not on this site, not at any doctor's office, not anywhere.. not yet anyway. So don't get angry at _US_ on the website for not providing you with something that doesn't exhist.
I have been IBS-D since I was 7 years old. I am really started to get agrivated by people coming on this site and telling me that I am so much better off. One of the reasons I come to this site is that there are people here who, for once, WON'T belittle my symptoms and what I am going through.
The last thing I want to say is this: This website is designed by Heather, and maintained by Heather and is about something that Heather found that worked for her. It is out of the goodness of her heart that she shares so much of her information for free, and that it HAS helped so many people. I find it very confusing that people on here get upset when this is the information they find here. This is what this site is about - this is the diet that most of us have found success on, this is the support group that we have formed to try and use our EXPERIENCES with THIS DIET to help other people. People are trying to help.. they aren't paid for this, they don't get anything out of it.
I myself answer as many questions as I possibly can on this board while working one job full time and one job part time, and balancing the rest of my life as well. I want to help, I want people to feel better.. I get that we won't be able to help everybody, but at least we're trying.
If this diet hasn't helped you, I am so very sorry. I am sorry that you are suffering and furthermore I am sorry that because this diet is the thing that helped ME that I don't have any other ideas for you. I wish that the diet was a perfect fix for everyone, but clearly it isn't. The same as anything else.
If you need to go elsewhere to try other diets and things, we aren't telling you not to. If the diet doesn't work for you, there is no reason for any of us to demand that you carry on with it... we don't get anything out of that! If you find something else that works, and hang around here for the support and some of the other ideas (exercise, herbal teas, stuff like that) then great! But please, don't get aggressive with the people who are only trying to help.
Thanks,
--Steph
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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Yeah, I wouldn't go on that BTC if I was you. It seems like it's just clogging you up more. I know when I swing C-ish, with the sluggish occasionall BM's, I get bloated, gassy, and pain. When I finally am going, those symptoms are greatly relieved. That's what makes me think that will get better once you can get the C going - like a domino effect. Now the problem is...what can get you to go....
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Right on.
Quote:
I have been IBS-D since I was 7 years old. I am really started to get agrivated by people coming on this site and telling me that I am so much better off. One of the reasons I come to this site is that there are people here who, for once, WON'T belittle my symptoms and what I am going through.
Well I was D, and now I'm A. And let me just say, asking if D or C is better is like asking if you'd rather be burned alive or eaten by sharks. It's a silly debate. We all suffer, and nobody gets extra points for having a worse situation.
Newbies: This board is about Heather's recommendations. Try them for a few months -- I'd say 6 months minimum -- and then if they don't work, go elsewhere. That's all.
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Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
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But I will say that it took me a long time to figure it out! I started the diet in July of '04 and though I got a little immediate relief, I wasn't really stable until January. The diet does wonders for me, but to be completely honest, I didn't find real stability until after I started taking Mirilax, during which time I was able to find my triggers.
It takes a while to figure out what are actual triggers for your body and what you can tolerate, but it's worth it. All I can say is keep keeping on, you WILL eventually find relief.
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~ Rachel (IBS-C)
If life hands you lemons, make lemonade!!
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I'm not sure I understand the strength of your reaction. I was asking a simple question, and one that doesn't strike me as "off-topic" or inappropriate to this board: has anyone had success with this diet for IBS-C?
Ironically, you are venting in almost the same way I was. You don't like it when you perceive that someone is disrespecting you and something you care about (the board). I didn't like it when I thought I was being accused (first indirectly in other posts, then pretty directly in your post) of searching for a "quick fix" or "miracle cure". If you've read any of my previous posts over the past several weeks/months you'd know what kind of effort I've put into making this work for me.
I'm not "demanding" anything of anyone. I'm here for the same reason everyone else is: to learn, give and receive support and hopefully heal. Part of the learning process for me involves questioning what I am told until I can understand it makes sense to me, until I can understand it fully, until I can verify it in my own experience.
Is there a rule here that I'm not aware of that states I have to accept everything Heather has written and people say here as absolute fact in order to participate? Believe me, I have the utmost respect and admiration for the work Heather & Co. have done and the contribution all of the folks here on the board make. But that doesn't necessarily mean that this approach that worked for her and so many here will work for everyone. And it doesn't mean that everyone who has gut troubles has what is referred to as "IBS".
I'm happy to know the diet has been helpful for you. Me? I'm still looking for answers, and I will continue to search here until I'm satisfied that this program will work for me, or not work for me. I'm not there yet, and so I continue in my exploration.
And that exploration includes a lot of research into the etiology and differentiation of "IBS", which most researchers and authors who are on the forefront in this field believe is basically a catch-all term. In fact, Michael Gershon, in his recent book "The Second Brain: A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Small Intestine" says that we will very likely discover in the next 10-20 years that what we now call "IBS" is actually several distinct disorders that we simply don't yet understand.
Other recent research positively links bacterial overgrowth to IBS, and has shown antibiotic treatment of that overgrowth to lead to a greater reduction of symptoms than any published research to date.
Clearly, there's a lot going on here we don't understand. Because there are likely many different causes for what people are going through, there will likely need to be many different treatments.
So, I keep searching.
Chris
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Quote:
I'm not sure I understand the strength of your reaction. I was asking a simple question, and one that doesn't strike me as "off-topic" or inappropriate to this board: has anyone had success with this diet for IBS-C?
Hi there. First of all, I wasn't just addressing you. I should have made that clearer in my post, sorry about that. It seems like loads of people lately and getting upset, though, and starting to write aggressively against the people who are just trying to offer up suggestions. It's not just you, and I don't think that your initial post and question was a bad thing at all. It was what followed that bothered me.
Ironically, you are venting in almost the same way I was. You don't like it when you perceive that someone is disrespecting you and something you care about (the board). I didn't like it when I thought I was being accused (first indirectly in other posts, then pretty directly in your post) of searching for a "quick fix" or "miracle cure". If you've read any of my previous posts over the past several weeks/months you'd know what kind of effort I've put into making this work for me.
Again, this is something I should have made clear that I wasn't directly at you. I have read a lot of your previous posts and I know that you are trying everything and anything. I know that YOU aren't looking for a quick fix. I know that in one of the posts, someone accused the boards of suggesting that this diet is a quick fix and I wanted to be clear that nobody here believes that.
I'm not "demanding" anything of anyone. I'm here for the same reason everyone else is: to learn, give and receive support and hopefully heal. Part of the learning process for me involves questioning what I am told until I can understand it makes sense to me, until I can understand it fully, until I can verify it in my own experience.
Is there a rule here that I'm not aware of that states I have to accept everything Heather has written and people say here as absolute fact in order to participate? Believe me, I have the utmost respect and admiration for the work Heather & Co. have done and the contribution all of the folks here on the board make. But that doesn't necessarily mean that this approach that worked for her and so many here will work for everyone. And it doesn't mean that everyone who has gut troubles has what is referred to as "IBS".
This is exactly what I was trying to say!! That OF COURSE you don't have to accept that everything Heather has written is an absolute fact! OF COURSE some people won't do as well as others... I really think you misread what I wrote because you basically just made my point for me.. And that is this: For some people, the diet works. For others, it doesn't. This board is about the diet, not about all ways of dealing with IBS because most people here are using this diet at this moment in time to try and get better. There are some parts that don't work for me either.
If I offended you in any way, I apologise. Like I've said, it wasn't just directed at you or at the original post. I should have been more clear.
You have to try and understand that it gets exhausting dealing with this, and then trying to help people who sometimes lash out because it's not working for them. I understand it, but I'm also a person who does take things personally sometimes.. That's why I brought up the issue of people belittling what people with IBS-D are going through.
I really hope that you do find something that helps you, I truly do. I get that for you, the diet isn't working. I totally understand that, I am not one of the people that thinks it will work for everyone. So here's hoping you find something that does and that when you do, you can share it with other people.
--Steph
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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Quote:
Newbies: This board is about Heather's recommendations. Try them for a few months -- I'd say 6 months minimum -- and then if they don't work, go elsewhere. That's all.
Amen Amanda Panda.
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Again, this is not directed at any particular poster.
I think the main problem is that people don't realize that we don't HAVE to care about strangers' health (though Heather has a financial stake in caring). If people's tone sounds hostile, unceasingly cranky, or start calling people names, or forget that everyone else is suffering as much as they are, then nobody *owes* them any help or answers.
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Thanks for your heartfelt reply Steph. We're on the same page.
For the record, I am not one of those folks who thinks there's any point whatsoever in comparing "D" to "C" to "A". AmandaPanda said it best! "And let me just say, asking if D or C is better is like asking if you'd rather be burned alive or eaten by sharks. It's a silly debate. We all suffer, and nobody gets extra points for having a worse situation."
Chris
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I'm so torn on the Miralax. It seems to be that one thing that creates a shift for so many of the IBS-C folks when everything else has failed.
And yet I'm really scared that if I get on Miralax it will be habit forming and further damage my colon's natural peristaltic action.
Has this been a concern for any of you taking Miralax? How did you make the decision? Also, does it tend to cause gas/cramps in you, or not?
I'm coming to realize that I'll never be able to identify triggers if I can't get my bowels moving. Fiber and probiotics make the C worse. Nothing I've tried works without causing more gas, bloating and pain.
Perhaps I could take Miralax until I can stabilize and identify my triggers, and then gradually wean myself off of it after I've eliminated the triggers. Maybe once I get the cramping/gas/pain under control with diet I won't need the Miralax anymore. Just thinking out loud.
Thanks to everyone for your support and feedback. I really appreciate it.
Chris
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Actually...
#184035 - 06/06/05 02:47 PM
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RachelT
Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 2350
Loc: Minnesota
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Mirilax is not a stimulant, so it won't cause cramping. It works by using the moisture that you have in your colon to "encourage" movement... you just need to make sure you drink lots and lots of water with it and after taking it in order for it to be effective. Bloating & gas, unfortunately are common side effects of taking it until you get adjusted to it. Also, unfortunately, Mirilax IS habit forming.
For myself, it was a matter of continuing on the way I was or trying something new. The fact that it worked so well for me helped me decide that I was going to accept that I may have to take it for the rest of my life. It was either that, or the possibility that I could go back to being C forever.
Currently I'm pregnant, and well, things have been moving for me without the help of Mirilax. However, if I weren't, I'm fairly certain that because of the help it gave me in finding my triggers, I would eventually be able to wean myself from it... if I felt comfortable & confident enough that is, that I could go on without it.
Just to give you an example of how well it worked for me, I was barely going twice a week before I started it. I was having issues with severe pain because I would get stool caught underneath my ovaries. Within just a couple of days I started going regularly. And within a couple of weeks, I was at 2-3 times per day, which for me was more normal.
There are a few of us on here that rely on Mirilax... you should do a search for it. I'm sure you'll find a ton of useful info.
Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.
--------------------
~ Rachel (IBS-C)
If life hands you lemons, make lemonade!!
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Thanks Rachel. That was very helpful.
I suppose if I have to choose between being severely C for the rest of my life, or dependent upon Miralax, I'd choose the latter. And, I'm still holding out hope that like yourself I may not have to take it forever.
Do you know how long one would have to take it for it to be "habit forming"? A month, a year, five years?
Thanks again,
Chris
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That I don't know... sorry. My guess though would be about a month?! I'm sure it really depends on the individual.
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~ Rachel (IBS-C)
If life hands you lemons, make lemonade!!
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I am an IBS-C. I have had success with Heather's diet but I had to make some changes just for me. I have not given up the Zelnorm that I am on or the Milk of Magnesia I take every night. I also found that IF, even if I eat SF first just doesn't work for me. I have just added fresh watermelon to my diet but that is the only raw fruit I have eaten in 3 months. I found a list of low fiber or what they call low residue foods and I stick with that pretty much.
I am sorry you are having such difficulty. I went through years of problems before I finally was given a Sitz Marker test where they can tell how long it takes stuff to go through your intestines. It was very revealing. That is when they finally put me on Zelnorm.
What ever it is in this combination seems to be working for me. I haven't been in the hospital due to pain/impacted stool since end of January. I found this diet shortly after that stay. I rarely have pain and I haven't been constipated. I sometimes have the opposite problem but that is okay right now, I would rather have that although it is inconvenient.
I hope some of this helps.
Jamie
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I have identified my triggers which are all my own I suppose. I can tolerate a little dairy but not much. I stay pretty much to a lowfat diet but lay off the white bread and sugar. I eat mostly Asian food. There is a spelt bread recipe that was posted here a while back and that keeps me regular as can be.
I struggle with low iron and protein as iron and protein rich foods are not my friend...beans in any shape or form makes me go over the alotted 14 "poofs" a day that we all heard about on Oprah.
I don't think that any one cure will work for everyone...we all have to find our own. I think the time it takes for one to find their "safe food" is stressful to say the least hence the patience thing...there is no point in getting worked up as stress for me is my major trigger!
I pray you find what works for you.
--------------------
Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Wow. So you don't have to eat IF? This IBS is so confusing. I've wondered about adding milk back into my routine (I usually eat cereal every morning) instead of soy milk. I sound crazy but just trying to figure out how to get myself to stop being so C, despite being on Miralax. I definitely have to have IF, though. Glad you've found something to help you.
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Stephie,
You're the BEST. Very eloquent, sensitive and to the point. Right on!!
D
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Dana
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ok, you wanted a reply from someone that is IBS-C. Here you go, I have had IBS for just about a year. I finally found this website in March 2005, within two weeks of total reliance on this diet, I am SYMPTOM FREE!! I eat meals that are based heavily on SF, and I make my own soy (which you said you can't have) and rice milks. I have lost at least 15 pounds in the past two months.....I have gotten a promotion at work, mainly because I could actually work a full week again (instead of my 1 day a week with IBS-C)! This diet have worked wonders for me....but you have to commit...by the way, I do not use any medications for my IBS-C. You have to commit to doing the diet completely, cheat and it costs you badly!
--------------------
helpforibs is my saviour from IBS-C....all hail Heather Van Vorous!!!!
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Hey Brian, so glad to hear your life has improved so much with the diet!
By symptom free, I'm assuming you're including the "C" in that? Do you use fiber supplements? How do you keep things "moving"?
Unfortunately for me I'm trying to gain weight (which I've never been able to put back on since the parasite/dysentery episode). I always seem to lose weight on these diets.
Thanks for sharing, it's good to know it's working for a fellow IBS-C person.
Chris
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I feel I must say something on Chris's behalf. I don't think he meant to be hostile or demanding. I think he is truly frustrated and perhaps scared that his life will always be filled with pain and symptoms. Sorry if I am speaking incorrectly for him. I guess it would be better to speak for myself.
When I read the posts, I felt the desparation and fear. Mostly because I share them. It is so heartbreaking to feel that I am following the diet and doing what everyone else is doing and yet, I am still suffering as much as I was day one. It is frightening to think that this will be my life.
It is hard to understand how this diet works miracles for others while some continue to feel no improvement especially when your in the latter group!  I love all you guys and I am so happy that this diet has provided such drastic improvements for so many of you. It has been a blessing, perhaps even a miracle for so many of you.
But when your doing everything possible to try and find some relief, when your trying the same exact diet and removing the same trigger foods as those who have had such terrific results, it's so frustrating and disheartening not to find the same relief. It scares me because if this diet won't help, which it has done for so many, then were do we turn to next?? Chris did mention some options, but I personally don't have the strength right now to attempt a new approach. I do believe that this approach makes the most sense and I want the Eating for IBS diet to work for me.
So, I guess I'm just saying that I read Chris' post with empathy and I felt his frustration and discouragement and fear. Not angry at anyone. Not angry at the diet, but angry that life continues to be so painful to live.
Again, maybe I should not try to speak for Chris, because I really can't read his mind as to what his thoughts or intentions really were in his post. I'm just saying that it is easy to feel sorry for myself when I read how much this diet is helping others. I just want to say, "why not me". Why won't it work for me??
I hope you all understand that this is coming from my heart...not trying to attack the diet or anyone. But, truly, I understand how disheartening it is to continue to be so symptomatic despite following the IBS diet guidelines. I'm just angry at my body.
Having said that, I think sometimes that perhaps I should try to "start over" again. Perhaps I'm missing something? I don't know. I'm just confused and feeling so much pain. Do you guys think I should keep trying this approach? Honestly??? Or do you think it is time to move on and try something different? I would love your honest feedback. Knowing that you guys care enough to give me an honest answer because I know you all just want me to feel better, no matter what approach or diet that may be.
Thank you all for being here and for accepting me as I am, where I am in all this.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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HI everyone,
I too am IBS-C, and find the bloating and c to be very frustrating at times. It's important to give this diet a chance. Drink a lot of water and herbal tea, and if you have to start eliminating foods that you think might be triggers. You have probably heard all of these things, but this is a life long change, not something that happens quickly. I understand because I have a lot of bloating and symptoms associated with it that make me upset too.
Things will get better for you, and this site has great people and information to do that.
Good luck
Cloudygirl
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Hi everyone,
I have experienced d and been a before, but am mainly c. I have had to modify some of the recipes posted in the recipe index to fit my own tollerances. I think its important to be patient and keep trying different things to help. Give the diet a chance.
Cloudygirl 
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That was beautifully written....and I am sorry you are not feeling well. How long have you been on the diet? Anne
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Augie,
First of all I'm sorry to hear you're struggling so much and haven't been able to find any answers. I'm with you on that one, as you know.
I really appreciate the empathy you offered me and you're really right on. That's exactly how I feel.
Though my feathers got a little ruffled by a few of the posts in this thread, I was never actually angry or feeling like I was being attacked in any way. I feel really good about the way everyone shows up and supports each other here.
I hope you can find some relief soon, Augie.
Chris
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For Beth...
#184276 - 06/07/05 09:54 AM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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Personally, sweetie, I've thought all along that (1) you're not eating enough and (2) you're not eating enough insolubles. Those two things are going to keep you hung up on this C thing no matter what else you try. Trust me on this one. I STILL get C if I don't eat enough for a couple days, and like I've said already, I HAVE to eat insolubles often or my guts are all screwed up.
I know it's scary because of the gas and bloating, but sometimes you have to weigh out your options and choose to attack the most troublesome symptom first.
So my thought? Yes, you should "start over" and do the diet again. I wouldn't bother with "what to eat when you can't eat anything" because you've been eating a good amount of SF all along. I would just concentrate on eating more and eating more IF, and give it a good long time to start working. C and A really are such a pain to manage.
Just my .02, of course. 
*hugs*
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I totally agree with you about what your saying. It is impossible for anyone to say that this diet will work for everybody unless they can see the future of every living being, and you can be sure that whoever is saying it is one of the lucky ones that it did work for. I did notice some changes on the diet less explosive D, but bloating and gas still was a major problem and I don't believe that if I carried on for months more, that would have stopped. Don't get me wrong I am so happy for the people that find great relief from this and I will continue to try again and not completely give up the ship, but to always hear the same people say over and over that it will eventually work is wrong. I know that for me breathing causes symptoms and on this diet, symptoms are reduced but by no means to the point where I say praise the lord it's a miracle. I would presume that the people who find that this does not work at all for them, disappear from the site and the ones that have great results stay and sing the praises of it which is logical. But you can guarantee there are people that this does not help and months or years won't change that. I wish the best to those who keep on plugging along I know I will continue to try in some form or another.
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I have second this - not for Beth, but for my IBS-C. I *have* to have insolubles at pretty much every meal (whole grains or raw fruit or cooked IF veggies) to keep the C at bay. Now, I drop the IF if I have a D attack, but only then and only for a short time.
Surprisingly, the hypno program really helped my C. I was just expecting that it might help my occasional stress-related D attacks, but it ended up making me really and truly regular. Bizarre, but wonderful!
--AC
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Hi Friend!
#184337 - 06/07/05 11:29 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I really believe in the principles of Heather's diet and that's why I haven't given up on it after all this time! I do believe, I do believe, I do believe....
Could the ten pound weight loss be a sign that I'm not eating enough?  Am I suppose to keep eating even though nothing is coming out the other end and I feel painful cramps? I thought I was suppose to let my body rest during these time by not making the body have to go through the mechanics of having to digest foods.
I'm not sure if I am eating enough SF. I think I may be concentrating on too much IF if fact. Maybe I should start reporting in so I can get some feedback.
Thanks for your thoughts, Casey.
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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the topic is "The Five Constipation Frustrations: What if you think you're doing everything you're supposed to do for constipation, but nothing is working?!" This issue only covers 2 of the 5 - it's a cliff-hanger. 
I'm not bringing this up to beat that same poor old dead horse of trying harder or doing it "right", but I thought some of Heather's suggestions were interesting and might be worth checking out. And, since I gather some people who post don't get the newsletter, it's online via this link.
(I hope it's okay to point non-subscribers there and in case it's not, I'll hope to make up for my faux pas by saying it's really easy to subscribe; I've never gotten a single unwanted email as a result of subscribing; and there's at least one item I find interesting in almost every issue - if not the main topic, then the research info, and if not that, then the recipes.)
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Augie,
I'm hardly the one to be giving advice, because I'm far from feeling good as you know.
However, I do know that eating small meals actually helps with constipation because eating stimulates peristalsis. And for some reason, if I go a long time without eating it makes my symptoms WORSE.
Did you see Heather's newsletter today? It was about constipation. I was encouraged by it - not that there was anything new, but a little more explanation and detail I found helpful.
Perhaps you (and I) could find some gentle laxative that would keep us moving while we build up to a dosage of SF that works. Maybe getting regular, in combination with the diet, would elminate or at least reduce the cramping and other symptoms you experience. I know for me when I'm really plugged up it doesn't much matter what I eat.
Keep us posted and take care,
Chris
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Yes!
#184362 - 06/07/05 11:59 AM
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For months on the diet I got little relief. I was eating TONS of french bread. Well, I have a gluten intolerance!
I am C. I DO get D occasionally. But I am MOSTLY C.
This diet has helped me in many many ways. As someone with C I take magnesium and calcium to help me go in addition to following the diet.
I also drink a TON of bottled water and eat as many fruits and veggies as I can. This along with brown rice pasta helps me go as well.
It took me about 2.5 years to get it right. And I STILL tweak the diet every now and then if I add a new supplement to my diet or something. Even the season changes wreak havoc on my system. So I am constantly listening to my body and adjusting my diet/lifestyle as needed.
Hth!
--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie
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You will see in my signature that I am IBS-A. However, the C is and always has been much more predominant for me. Actually, since starting this diet, (knock on wood) I haven't had an issue with D, just C. I feel like I have learned so much and am so in tune with what my body is telling me now that I can start to give advice or tell my story to others. It took awhile for me to adjust and start to feel even remotely "normal" again. I know I'm not there yet, but I am learning my trigger foods and my "helpers". I find that my C suffers when I miss a dose of my scheduled acacia. Right now I am taking a tablespoon in the morning, afternoon, and before bed. My terrible gas has subsided (unless I cheat or have a bad day), the pain has lessoned (unless I miss a dose), and I have bowel movements almost daily. Huge improvement for me considering I used to go for days.
However, I am also a firm believer that one thing does not work for everyone. There are always exceptions to the rules. Hopefully you are not the exception but there is always a chance.
--------------------
***********************
IBS-A, with bloating and gas as my predominant symptoms
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Badlydrawnboy--
I also have post-infectious IBS, although mine is IBS-D. The original infection started ten years ago after living abroad--a couple of weeks after drinking water from a spring and eating some questionable shellfish. It took one year for my doctors to realize that the D wasn't only related to stress in my life. I had significant improvement following treatment with an antibiotic, but I've had the IBS-D to deal with ever since. Also, I feel as though it took me four years to recover fully from the infection itself, which wasn't manageable by diet. Recently, just last year, I had to deal with a possible reoccurence of the original infection--although doctors could only go by my symptoms because tests didn't actually show anything. I've heard that doctors in the U.S. aren't as educated about such infections.
However, I was lucky to find a GP who had studied medicine abroad and had even had an intestinal parasite. He was able to diagnose me quickly and provide me some tips. So, Ruchie's post just reminded me of something this doctor said. He mentioned that it's common for people to be intolerant of wheat and gluten for a period of time following an infection and after receiving treatment for that infection. I don't remember the exact details or explanation, but I think it had something to do with the infection being in the small intestine and the time it would take for it to "heal." Did any of your doctors mention this to you? I'm sorry I don't have more information, but I think it's worth looking into especially if you're not getting any relief after following the IBS diet for eight months. As for myself, I believe that I'm not only managing the IBS, but I'm still recovering from the trauma of having an intestinal infection, including anxiety from having been sick for so long which just triggers the IBS. Nasty cycle!
Take care,
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VERY interesting! Thank you Maria!!! *hugs*
--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie
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You're right that there are always some great recipes posted. I'm generally good about sticking to the diet. I've decided lately to add more fiber (SF & IF) into my diet. I'm waiting for my order of Acacia to come in, so I can take that every evening (this will be the 3rd try but different approach). I'm also eating more salads, starting this week (never "just" a salad-- I always have some SF with it).
I think my diet needs some "tweeking," which, it sounds, is normal.
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Actually...
#184422 - 06/07/05 04:06 PM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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That's a good idea. It's been a while since we really talked about what you were eating, so darned if I know how you're eating these days. Report in! If you start reporting on here, let me know so I can take a look. That might even help other C'ers identify what else you could try. (But of course you know you can just email too.)
I still think quantity might have something to do with it, though. I know how you feel - when I went C, the last thing I wanted to do was eat - but at the same time, I'd force myself to eat more, suffer through the discomfort, and the next day I'd have a BM. I look at it this way, it's worth a try. And yes, I do think losing 10lbs has something to do with not eating enough.
Love ya, sweets!
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...that I have to have raw fruits or veggies every day or my gut really does suffer. Cooked vegetables are good too, but the raw ones, eaten safely, are what keep things moving. And I'm not even purely a C, so I can just imagine how much more important it is for C'ers to get their IF in quantity.
By the way, good to see you, AC.
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Hi Chris!
I wanted to apologize if I came off as snappish before... I do that sometimes, unfortunately. Forgive me?
Your thought about a laxative got my gears turning. Have you tried adding a magnesium supplement to your diet? I have to admit that I don't have a whole lot of experience with this, but it's something that's mentioned here... and not to be confused with milk of magnesia, of course, which I think is a higher dosage. I'd try a mag supplement first before trying MoM.
Just a thought. And yes, when I saw the newsletter today, I thought of you and Beth! I hope you guys found a little encouragement in it.
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I won't give you tips or advice, Beth. I will say this (and I have IBS-D), even I don't feel good unless there's a few servings of vegetables in me.
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I find as well, that I feel terrible without some veggies (or fruit) in me and that a really small salad--just greens--cleans me out. I'm a D'er and I had to significantly reduce my raw to just lettuce (anything else and anything more causes cramping re: raw intake). Otherwise cooked and well blended foods are generally agreeable and ENERGIZING and keep me very regular and I'm working on reducing my very regular regularity. Incidentally, my significant elimination and reduction of the raw greens seems to be doing the trick in that department.
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AC
#184474 - 06/07/05 07:03 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I thought the hypno tapes were really more for the D attacks as well. Good to know they can help with C too. I need to save up some money for those tapes!
I cook all my fruits and all my veggies. I peel them all too. Do you eat the skin of your fruits to stay "regular"?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Okay then...
#184479 - 06/07/05 07:11 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Conscious effort to eat more! It is worth a try, now isn't it. Tried not eating, so what the hey!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Which do you eat raw and how many a day? Is one serving of raw fruit or one serving of raw veggie per day enough for you? How do you incorporate them into your meal plan?
I always thought raw was "taboo". I guess I really don't understand the diet as well as I thought. Or, the opposite. I take everything I read and use it in the absolute safest way. I don't deviate from the safest possible choices or eating methods. I am not "tweeking" the diet enough. I am too black and white in my thinking. If the book says cooked and peeled, then I do cooked and peeled EVERYTHING!
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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You are so passionate in your efforts to help other people. I see you posting replies to everyone...no matter if they are a C, a D, an A, or any other letter of the alphabet! You never think twice about trying to offer some sort of advice or insight into a problem.
You have such a big heart, girl! I just hope you don't take it personally when you can't help others. Because, as you said, there is no miracle cure for IBS.
I, for one, truly respect and appreciate all the time and energy you give of yourself to the people on the boards. You have a lot to deal with besides the IBS. Yet, you share without even thinking twice. You give so much to these boards and for that, we are all very fortunate.
Just please try not to feel like you are letting anyone down if you aren't able to help everyone. That, my dear, is an impossibility. You're good, but not even the docs can seem to help us all the IBS folk! Heck, I don't think most of them can help half as many as this site has helped.
I'm just trying to say thank you for caring about all of us so much. And thank you for wanting to help people find some relief.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Quote:
Hey Brian, so glad to hear your life has improved so much with the diet!
By symptom free, I'm assuming you're including the "C" in that? Do you use fiber supplements? How do you keep things "moving"?
Unfortunately for me I'm trying to gain weight (which I've never been able to put back on since the parasite/dysentery episode). I always seem to lose weight on these diets.
Thanks for sharing, it's good to know it's working for a fellow IBS-C person.
Chris
Chris,
I have had incredible results, with my C not even a factor anymore! I make sure to keep 1/2 of my plate SF, 1/4 IF and 1/4 is a safe protein for EVERY meal. I don't use any supplements, although I do have Metimucil tablets with me at all times for peace of mind. If I find that I am in a situation that may not be totally safe, I know that I can take 2 tablets before eating to keep myself safe for that meal. The best advise I could give is to totally commit to this diet, and its principles, if you don't you 'cheat' and are more likely to remain in a C lifestyle.
Brian
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helpforibs is my saviour from IBS-C....all hail Heather Van Vorous!!!!
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I mean, obviously, I didn't just jump in and start eating raw veggies with wild abandon. And I still don't. I experimented first with a leaf of lettuce on a sandwich. Or a raw piece of mango. (I know, that's SF, but I wasn't eating ANYTHING raw, so...)
I'll use what I ate today as an example. With my lunch, I had a smoothie made of a banana and a few huge fresh strawberries. I had a snack of mixed fruit - pineapple, mango, and (canned) mandarin oranges, about a cup or so total. Then with dinner, I had raw mushrooms and cherry tomatoes. That's a pretty typical day for me these days. If you go by what the USDA calls a "serving" (1/2 cup), I've probably had 5 or 6 servings.
In all cases, I make sure to have SF food to cushion it - I had a couple tea biscuits with the fruit snack, I had my smoothie with a sandwich, and with dinner, I had rice. And on days that my guts are "iffy", I stick with the cooked stuff.
And there are still plenty of veggies I absolutely am petrified to eat raw that I used to love - broccoli, cauliflower, even carrots. You'll notice that the stuff I'm eating is all pretty "soft"... the crunchy stuff still worries me. But maybe I'll get brave and try those eventually too.
What's funny is that I didn't start eating raw veggies because I needed the help with my BMs... I was just craving something that WASN'T beans/carrots/peas/spinach cooked to a pulp. Stabilizing was a pretty good benefit!
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You took the words right out of my mouth. Stephie, this board is all the better because of your encouraging, positive tone, and your need to help. God bless ya!
--------------------
Keep on keepin' on...
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One more comment on IBS with C.--
I am very happy that Heather addressed the C aspect of IBS in the recent newsletter. There was some eye-opening info: for example: That it is ok to take laxatives, etc while intoducing SFS's and Insol. and Sol. fibers to your digestive system. Did Not Know that! I thought it would be best to get rid of the laaxatives completely as they are so bad for you.
I welcome all info. about C and IBS.
I can feel a lot of frustration and anger on some people's part where Heather's Diet has not worked for them in a way they had anticipated. Me too. I understand. However, having said that-- I also agree with the premise that it is going to take a while, maybe up to six months, for MY body to adust to this new eating plan--hate the word diet as it sounds temporary. I have good days and bad days. Sometimes I don't eat enough Insoluble Fiber and my system responds negatively to that. I am still learning and experimenting with what works for me. I am in about week 5 with the plan.
I believe in it even though I experience frustration. I do understand that it could take awhile for my system to adjust. I just keep remembering that I have been taking laxatives, colon cleansers for more than 20 years!! It is going to take time to "fix" what I did to myself.
I DO FEEL MUCH BETTER THOUGH: VERY LITTLE BLOATING AND SELDOM DO I HAVE SHARP CRAMPS. I told my husband I feel ten years younger.
Please know that I think of all you "C's" out there and completely empathize with what you are feeling. Wondering when your next bowl movement is going to be is no fun-- one day, three days, a week! It's awful.
My prayers and thoughts are with you.
Robin
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Thanks for describing this, Casey. I feel the same way! I too, "play it by ear" or go with the flow, i.e. listen to my body in regard to "raw." Combining it with sf on good days is quite safe for me. I understand too about the need to bite into something different.
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For Beth
#184563 - 06/08/05 07:55 AM
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Stephie
Reged: 03/10/04
Posts: 2696
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Thank you so much for your kind words. It means so much to me. So much that I am looking up at the ceiling so I don't get all cry-face at work.
I have been going through just so much cr@p lately and feeling so so bad about myself.. that just helped me more than I can even say.
It's so nice to have someone in my corner!
**big hugs**
--Steph
--------------------
~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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--------------------
~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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You go girl! Keep being patient and persistent...it does pay off!
It took me 2.5 years to figure things out. If I had given up and left the boards I wouldn't have learned that sugar, dairy, red meat, and gluten are major offenders for me. With those guys CONSISTENTLY out of my system, not even a speck of cheating aloud, I am IBS safe!
It's great to get such encouraging feedback! Hang in there!
*hugs*
Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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This IS a balancing act! There are good and bad days! Thanks for putting this so plainly and simply! Glad to know you are better! I think a lot of folks don't realize that TIME is their greatest ally in this battle for stability! Thanks!
--------------------
God is Faithful!
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Okay, I know I need more calories as I am losing weight and down to an unhealthy weight. But I have gastroparesis (delayed gastric emptying) which means I get full after eating small amounts of food. The degree of gastroparesis is not severe, thank heavens, but it is hard to eat more when I always feel stuffed. Hmmm. Dilemma. If I eat more in the day, I am full by dinner. Should I just eat anyhow even though I feel "full"? Isn't that a trigger for problems?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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So your mango and pinapple were fresh and not frozen? And when you say you have 5 to 6 servings of fruits/veggies a day, that's also including cooked as well, right? You don't do all serving raw I presume? That would make one full cup of fruit salad, 1 whole cup of strawberries and about 1 cup of mushrooms/tomatoes? Were there any cooked f/v in this day?
Just curious, what was for breakfast?? 2 crackers was enough SF cushion for you with the fruit snack?
Also, did you eat all the rice before the veggies? Or did you mix them together? Is it safe to just mix them or do you need to eat the rice first in order for it to work as an SF?
I think there was a recent post regarding how much SF you need to eat before eating IF. I need to search that one out.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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If it took you 2 1/2 years, then maybe I'm not a lost hope at 8 months! I've been wondering what was taking me so long since others have found relief within days or weeks.
I guess it's all the extenuating circumstance I have...a past history with anorexia, delayed gastric emptying, and a non functioning gallbladder.
Thanks for your post! I get so tempted to "shuck it all" after so much time. You are an incentive to help me keep trying despite my past failures at all this.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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sounds super to me!
I have firbomyalgia. And I was on TOnS of meds for it. Once I was able to begin stabilizing I went off the meds and I have been med free ever since!
If it were me (and it's NOT...just my thoughts), I would go on Miralax for 2 weeks. And I would re-evaluate at that time. And I would continue on that path until I felt my evalutaions were accounted for.
I was on Miralax for a bit in 03' and I don't recall much about it as the experience was short lived. My doc said it is non-addiciting and I could take ti for life--which I DID NOT wish to do. In any case, I felt it was safe so I took it. The point is...I wouldn't worry about the long-term effects. I would simply take it for a short period of time knowing you have a use/goal/purpose in taking it.
HTH....feel better soon!!!
Ruchie~
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Beth, you are NEVER a lost hope! Got that?!?!?! *hugs*
I had anorexia behind me. Gluten probs. Sugar to get rid of. An abusive past to face. And more! And yes...this all plays a role in how long it takes to get to wellness.
Anxiety and life circumstance DEFINATELY counts with IBS and most illnesses. My IBS is RAGING because I had some triggers by mistkae (and then on purpose without realizing why I craved them so badly ), and the move we just made. I'm NOT doing well. The good news is, I know how to get back on track now. But look how very long it took me to get here.
But, it's SO worth it!
Hang in there Beth,you're gonna make it!
Love,
Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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I thought all the foods on the soluble fiber list were okay to eat raw (minus peels where appropriate) and that it was only the insoluble fiber fruits and vegetables that needed to be chopped and/or cooked to be safe.
In other words, I think it's just as safe to eat carrots, potatoes, mushrooms, and turnips raw, as it is to eat avocados, bananas, mangoes, and papayas raw. They're all soluble fiber, right?
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Edited by Sand (06/08/05 09:00 AM)
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ROTFLMBO! I love that. As an A, I appreciate that sentiment...the other side is always greener, etc.
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I'm still afraid of the harder raw vegetables. LOL! I won't eat carrots raw. They come out whole on the other end.
But yes, you're right, the mushrooms are SF even when they're raw, just like tomatoes are still IF even if they're cooked. Sorry if I confused anyone when I was rattling off what I ate! I guess if you want to get technical, then, I probably eat closer to 3-4 "servings" of IF veggies/fruits a day.
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This is exactly what I have decided to do. I saw a new GI doc yesterday, at UCSF Medical Center here in San Francisco, one of the best teaching hospitals in the country. He was a really amazing guy.
My plan is to go on Miralax while I slowly build up to 2-3 TBS of Acacia, and get some probiotics into my system. I think the probiotics were making things worse because I was so constipated, but my sense is that if I get things movings they may actually help.
Hopefully as the Acacia kicks in I can then slowly titrade off of the Miralax. I've already noticed that the Acacia seems to provide a buffer that enables me to eat more IF than I would normally be able to, which in turn I hope will stimulate more peristaltic activity (and BMs).
I have a glorious BM this morning (sorry, but some of you know that feeling after waiting for so long!) after my first dose of Miralax yesterday. A little lower GI cramping, but not too severe.
Chris
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This is definietly not true for me, but I suppose it's different for everyone.
If I eat any "crunchy" veggies raw, I try to peel them and grate them on a very fine setting. That seems to help me digest them, and they still have the benefits of "raw".
Chris
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Also...
#184622 - 06/08/05 09:37 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Casey is eating IF fruits and veggies raw too. So it must be okay for some people to eat some IF foods raw?
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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No apology necessary, though I appreciate it anyhow!
Before taking the antibiotics things were much different. I could keep things moving with fiber and either magnesium (Natural Calm) or aloe.
Now, nothing has worked. Even things that would have previously sent me running to the bathroom 10 times the next day have had very little effect. Clearly the drugs created some major changes in my body.
I've decided to go on Miralax for a short time while I build up to 2-3 TBS of Acacia and reintroduce probiotics into my system. I'm still holding out hope that I can get back to some kind of normal functioning without needing any drugs or laxatives over the long-term.
Chris
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Yep, the mango and pineapple were fresh, not frozen or canned. I had at least a cup of the fruit salad, a cup of tomatoes, and about 1/2 cup of strawberries. (Plus the banana and mushrooms, which are SF.) And actually, yeah, all of those were raw. Now that it's hot, I just don't feel like cooking at all.
Breakfast is always 2 big bowls of cocoa pebbles with vanilla soy milk. I almost never have IF with breakfast anymore... I used to, but I think I burned myself out on the oatmeal-with-fruit thing.
And yep, 2 tea biscuits was enough cushion for me with the fruit snack. Keep in mind that there was mango in there - SF - and that I ate it later in the afternoon, after I'd already been eating SF foods most of the day.
Nope, I didn't eat all the rice before the veggies. I didn't mix them together, either. I do usually take a bite or two of rice (or potato, or pasta) before I eat anything else, but beyond that, I just eat what's on my plate and don't give it a whole lot of thought. But yes, you could mix them, and that would be fine.
I want to stress again that I just didn't go full-bore into eating raw fruits and veggies again. I've done it slowly and gradually over the past couple months. I don't want to see you doubled over in pain because you tried to duplicate what I'm eating all at once!!
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Precisely!!
#184628 - 06/08/05 09:45 AM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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Thank you for putting it so well in so many fewer words than me. NO insoluble fiber foods are completely taboo, you just have to listen to your body and try new things as you feel you can. If raw foods scare ya, there's no need to feel like you have to try to them... and vice versa.
Thanks!
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Some people can tolerate mashed cauliflower. Some can tolerate cucumbers. I can't tolerate either, BUT I can eat necatrines with the peel (when I've been stable for a while).
These are GUIDELINES...we each have to figure out what works for us as individuals.
The standards are:
No red meat
No dairy
No IF without a SF buffer
But again...you will find folks that can tolerate some dairy. They are few and far between. And most can only do so if they are stable first.
Hope this helps to clarify things a bit
keep asking questions everyone!!!!!!! 
--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie
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...does it help to eat smaller amounts of food more often? It seems to make sense to me that it would, and that of course is also better for IBS. Trust me, I gained an awful lot of weight back by "grazing"; I know it's possible to trick your body into eating more by just eating tiny (and I do mean pretty darn small!) amounts of food basically all the time.
Something else to consider is your food choices. Do you eat sweets of any kind? I know it's hard with trying to eat GF too, but here's another thing to trust me on - Heather's quick breads are addictive substances and definitely packed with calories, which is something you definitely need. I really don't think you'd even have to do much experimenting to make them GF - rice flour should work in them. Just a thought.
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Re: Also...
#184635 - 06/08/05 09:57 AM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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Quote:
Casey is eating IF fruits and veggies raw too. So it must be okay for some people to eat some IF foods raw?
I eat IF fruits and vegetables raw sometimes - I make sure I get SF down me first. (This is one of my very favorite lunches.) I'm hoping to be able to eat them raw every day at some point. I never thought Heather's diet meant I'd never be able to eat raw IF fruits and vegetables again - I figured (hoped?) it was just a matter of getting stable, eating SF first, and being careful.
I'll give up steak, hamburgers, full-fat mayonnaise, real ice cream, and even (sob) Coke. But I've got to believe I'll be able to have an orange or some melon - and strawberries, please, strawberries - from time to time. I know I can't just wander into the kitchen hungry, pick this stuff up and shove it in my mouth, but I do believe I can manage it if I'm careful - and I can sometimes. Next up for me - experiments in smoothies!
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I wasn't trying to be "technical" or picky or whatever about how many servings of IF you actually ate every day - I just suddenly worried that I'd misunderstood about SF foods and the raw carrots and potatoes I was sneaking while cooking were doing me in. I'm sorry if I offended you.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Re: AC
#184695 - 06/08/05 11:49 AM
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AstroChick
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 1023
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
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Quote:
I thought the hypno tapes were really more for the D attacks as well. Good to know they can help with C too. I need to save up some money for those tapes!
I cook all my fruits and all my veggies. I peel them all too. Do you eat the skin of your fruits to stay "regular"?
I'm a big apple fan, so I usually eat a whole one at the end of lunch. I really can't think of any other fruit I eat that has an edible peel: bananas, berries, and melons don't really fall in that category.
I'm still pretty cautious about raw veggies, but now that it's hot and humid here, I'm thinking about salads! Maybe not lettuce salads, but a nice marinated green bean salad or salade nicoise or tomatoes and cucumbers.... I hate the humidity of summer, but I love the produce!
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did you do the BTC diet first? for how long? did that work?
im IBS-C and i JUST bought heathers eating for IBS book, and have been trying her advice, but have not done the BTC diet yet. i ordered some acacia fiber and am waiting for that to come in. . .is that a good time to start the BTC diet?
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i have the SAME problem. . .i know i need to gain weight(as i am at an unhealthy weight), but i simply get full after petty amounts of food. . .and i absolutely HATE to make myself eat even though i am full. people tell me that i just need to stretch past the fullness and eat anyways, then your stomach will stretch. but they just dont understand how hard it is. i hate this problem.
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It's scarey. I used to eat everything raw. I remember the days of raw beets and turnips, apples with skins, and broccoli, too--ALL RAW! Now, it would cause me intense pain and distress and would be hurtful to my body to do so. One day, my body just rebelled. Now, I eye those radishes!
Don't fear, though. The raw strawberries are easy WELL BLENDED, and the raspberries and the black raspberries and the blackberries, the service berries and the ... (the list goes on and on).
I just miss the hardcore stuff, sometimes. I can manage lettuce, but not iceburg for some strange reason and with lots of sf. More than 3 raw unblended strawberries, though and I have a huge tummy ache, etc.
Just really wanted to say, that I relate and empathize with your post. I hope you enjoy a smoothie sometime soon! Strawberry-papaya is a great combination, or strawberry-mango! If you miss icecream, just put the pureed fruit in the freezer (mango/strawberry is truly divine this way) and presto!--sorbet/gelato! Stick it in a cone and WOW! Or try strawberry-banana in a cone.
Wind (Kate) IBS-D.
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Sorry, but I'm still sort of confused on what Heather is saying about eating unpeeled fruits and/or veggies.
She says they are safer peeled, but also that we need insolubles. So I'm not sure if she is saying to eat the produce peeled because that is the safe way to eat IF foods or if she is saying to eat them unpeeled as a way to get insoluble fiber.
And are they still considered IF if they are peeled?
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Beth sweetie, they are safer peeled, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't eat them unpeeled. As with everything else, you just have to try it and see how your body does with it. Personally, I still can't handle apple peels, for example, but I know some people can... just like I can eat grapes and tomatoes and have no problems with THOSE skins.
Now, I don't know about the skins making IF foods any different... I mean, I would think of an apple peel as IF, but obviously cooked apple (applesauce) is considered SF. So maybe someone else can answer that one for you better!
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Bah!
#184901 - 06/08/05 07:29 PM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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You didn't offend me at all! I was just worried that I was giving contradictory information and confusing people... so if I sounded unclear, thanks for pointing it out! So often everything is straight in my head, but somewhere between my brain and my fingertips, it gets all discombobulated.
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Thanks Casey. Yeah, I think an apple peel would be rougher to digest, but I wonder if softer peeled fruits like nectarines, plums, or peaches would be okay. Guess your saying I would have to try it.
I peel and cook my nectarines, plums, etc...and I'm not sure if I'm erroniously counting them as insoluble fiber when I eat them this way. If I am, I am getting NO IF in this form at all.
I hope someone can help me with this question.
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Re: Sand/Also...
#184912 - 06/08/05 07:50 PM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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Thanks, Kate. I've been thinking about smoothies for a while and I figured since Heather's newsletter recipe was for a smoothie, it was a sign. Plus since it's suddenly hotter than the hinges of heck around here, it sounds really appetizing. And your idea of freezing it sounds even better.
Oddly enough, I've been more adventurous with raw veggies. My DH makes the world's best tossed green salads and on good-tummy days he makes me a very small one and I eat it at the end of a meal. Heaven!
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Re: Bah!
#184915 - 06/08/05 07:55 PM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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I'm glad you weren't offended. I think sometimes stuff sounds very clear in my head, but not when I type it. No hand gestures, mouth quirks, raised eyebrows - it makes communication iffy sometimes.
As for Quote:
So often everything is straight in my head, but somewhere between my brain and my fingertips, it gets all discombobulated.
LOL. I can certainly relate to that!
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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mechanically breaks down insoluble fiber in foods, making it easier on the gut. Peeling foods would actually remove the insoluble fiber, so you're not eating it at all.
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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You have the BEST sig lines. I just thought I'd mention that. This chocolate one is my favorite so far. I chuckle every time I read your posts. LOL!
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Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying them. I was heartbroken when Sandra Boynton stopped doing greeting cards and mugs and turned to children's literature. Sure, kids are great, but I don't think they really have the maturity to truly appreciate chocolate!
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Greetings! Have you had a gastric emptying test? If you feel ok with western meds, you may want to ask your md about reglan. Usually you take between 5 and 10 mg 30 minutes before meals. It works well in increasing gastric emptying time and is also used as an anti-nausea medication.
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I want to mention to you that you might consider trying a different SFS because Acacia tends to make C'ers more constipated. I use it once a day in my protein shakes, but it only accounts for 2.5g out of the 12.5g I take a day. I take Citrucel and psyllium for the rest of my fiber.
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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Wind...
#185051 - 06/09/05 08:48 AM
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I am the same with iceburg lettuce and strawberries! Weird huh?!
I find there are many foods I can eat if I eat very little of it at a time. Strawberries is one of them. Almond milk is another. ("Milks" don't sit very well with me in general for soem reason. I've tried soy, rice, and almond). Interesting how our bodies react to things!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Quote:
Sure, kids are great, but I don't think they really have the maturity to truly appreciate chocolate!
Are you a writer? That would be a FANTASTIC book title! if you're not going to use it, someone should!!!!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Made me all "wired" and awful. I felt like I was crawling out of my skin. Just MHO.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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If peeling fruits makes them all soluble fiber foods, then is the only way to eat more insoluble fruits to eat them whole with the skin? This scares me. I haven't even a skin peel in a year!
And would cooking them and eating them with the skin keep them insoluble?
And I assume peeling the zucchini and cooking it also makes this a soluble fiber veggie? If I cooked them with the peel would it be insoluble?
I am not sure if it is the peeling alone that makes them insoluble or the cooking too?
Can someone help me figure out how to get in more insoluble fibers, please.
Apperently, I haven't been eating any and that could be why I am still so constipated. I've been counting all my peeled cooked fruits (nectarines, zucchini...) as insolubles.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Re: AC
#185075 - 06/09/05 09:20 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Do you eat those other fruits (bananas, melons, berries)?
Would the salad be fresh, cold, raw green beans? And what is nicoise salad, btw?
I just noticed you live in Chicago. I live in southwest suburbs near Chicago Ridge Mall! We're neighbors!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Have others C folks noticed Acacia causes them more constipation if taken as the only SFS?
Elizabeth, how much citrucel and psyllium do you take and in what form?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Hi, Beth!
How about sticking to insolubles that you can mash, which, as Heather explained, would retain the IF but be mechanically broken down and make it easier to digest? For example, couldn't you puree beans and/or lentils in a blender, make fruit smoothies with bananas and your favorite fruits, like nectarines or blueberries--peels intact, or try small amounts of nut or seed butter? Sometimes I like to make a really simple fruit salad, which I eat after an SF meal, made with sliced bananas and pineapple tidbits, sometimes chopped apples without the skin. (I'm just throwing out ideas. I'm not exactly sure what foods bother you the most, and I apologize for suggesting anything that might make you sick.)
With zucchini, maybe you can cook the slices with the peel intact, I believe this would still retain the IF, and then slightly mash it? I like cooking zucchini with mushrooms; I find their flavors blend really well together. However, except for the skin, isn't zucchini mostly SF because it's a squash?
Usually, I check what's on Heather's IF list (from the cheat sheet) and just either cook the food item (usually IF vegetables) until mushy or if it's something I don't have to cook, I chop it finely or puree it. Also, even if the food is mushy or chopped, I still chew it well, which breaks it down even more for easier digestion. Yes, this makes me a slow eater--I'm usually the last one to leave the dinner table, but it also makes meals more enjoyable because I can savor the taste of the food.
I hope this helps at least a little bit. I know I'm not IBS-C, but it's important for me eat more IF as well. I'm still experimenting and trying to get more variety in my diet, so if you have any other tips I'd be happy to hear them!
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Do you take the IF food off of the cheat sheet and cook them with the peel intact, Maria?
And would the pureed cooked green beans still be IF? what I'm confused about is if cooking also takes away the IF factor. I don't know if zucchini is SF inside. Could be since it is in the squash family. So even with the skin, the amount of IF could be minimal. When you cook your zucchini, do you add in your mushrooms raw? But they are SF anyhow so even raw wouldn't help me with IF.
Wouldn't your peeled apples in your salad take away the IF?
BTW, which IF foods wouldn't need to be cooked?
Sorry so dense on this this morning. I'm having a bad week with personal problems (I'll explain later). I think I'm really on to something with this and why I'm still so constipated and why H's diet hasn't worked so well for me. Because I haven't been doing it correctly, even though I thought I was!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Good work putting those clues together! I never saw it coming!
Did you read detective stories as a kid?
--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie
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To my understanding, and I could be wrong, cooking leaves the IF in...removing the peel takes it out.
So if I cook a peach with the peel, I get IF.
Also, if you eat the peel of a potato, you are getting If, and peanut butter as well, in case you've been eating those?
I ate the diet incorrectly too for a LONG time getting zero IF Beth! I hope I FINALLY understand it after 2.5 years!  If not, someone PLEASE exaplin ir for both our sakes!!!
Love, Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Argggh! This is so frustrating. I've been trying to build up to a medium to high dose of Acacia fiber because all of the other options (citrucell, psyllium, etc.) make bloating and gas worse than it already is. When I tried Acacia in the past it did make me more constipated, though it had the least side effects. This time around it seems to be doing the same thing... though it's hard to tell because NOTHING has helped since I took those antibiotics (except for Fruit-Eze, but that really tore up my gut).
I started Miralax three days ago and I've had one BM. I'm at two doses of 17mg per day. It is really causing a lot of gas and cramping too.
I'm at my wits end here. Want to scream!
Chris
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Yes, someone help us please. I really feel like such a dork for not eating IF for so long when I thought I was! But at least I know now what I was doing was wrong, and it gives me some hope that maybe this diet may work for me eventually if I can get all the details, facts correct!
So PB is an insoluble. Too bad I can't handle fats at all.
I never tried a potato with skin, as they usually serve as my SF base. I would need to eat a potato with skin and rice and that's just too many carbs/starches at once for me.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I would do just the Miralax and see if some of the pain subsides?
I'm so sorry you are suffering so much!!!!!!!
Sending you lots of comforting things that make you feel at least a bit better,
Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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I eat the top of the potato and then as I get to the bottom I eat the flesh WITH the peel and it's safe as can be. only try it when you're ready
Please realize you're NEVER alone...and someone else might be grappling with the same thing you are and be too shy to ask. I'm glad you asked your question
Love ya! Ruch
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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I hope you don't mind me jumping in but I thought you might like to hear from another C'er. First of all for me Acacia works really well. Maybe not for all but for me I feel like it helps things glide out easier. I don't have to push as much. I usually take about 2 tablespoons a day. One througout the day and another at night. I stopped taking my stool softners to see what would happen and you know what I found no difference in my BM's. I usually eat my IF at lunch and dinner. Sometimes it is fruit with the skin on like apples or peaches. At dinner I eat peas, green beans, a salad or fresh tomatoes cut up. I find the skin doesn't bother me too much. It actually helps things moving. The biggest thing that has helped my C is getting rid of eating fried foods and dairy. Those things used to kill my stomach! I still have bad days especially around that time of the month or if I am stressed or can't go to the bathroom when I feel the urge. But overall my C is about 80% better and I am virtually cramp free.
The Acacia did give me gas and bloating for awhile but then it eventually let up and I have been benefitting from it. The one other example I can give you that this is working for me is that I recently went back on prenatal vitamins because we are trying for baby#2! Well when I went on them before I was diagnosed with IBS the iron in them plugged me up so bad I was miserable. They contain 90 mg of iron. Well I don't have any problems with it now and it has made me so happy!
I hope this gives you a little encouragment and hope. Hang in there and forgive me if I don't respond quickly. I am on summer vacation and don't check the boards all that often like I did when I was at work!!
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Quote:
Do you take the IF food off of the cheat sheet and cook them with the peel intact, Maria? I mostly eat black beans and blueberries and I can't really peel those, which is why I usually blend them. I get the IF from the peel, but by blending or mashing it gets broken down enough to make digestion easier. In the summer, after a meal, I'll usually have a small nectarine or plum as dessert; depending on what I ate before or how I'm feeling that week, I'll leave the peel on and do fine. Probably the most difficult peel for me to digest is apple peel. Also, when I was in college I used to snack on Gerber Baby Food products, like plums and the blended fruit or vegetable purees; I know some other people on the boards have tried this. I'm not sure how much IF that actually had though, and I couldn't find any nutrional info online, but the little containers of pureed food made it easy to take on trips or to work. There are other insolubles that I can tolerate but I know many people can't. For example:
**Broccoli, which I buy a frozen bag of, then microwave two-four florets until it's easy to chop and mash with a fork. I started with one floret, cooked and mashed, and then increased as I became stable. I always eat it with pasta. However, I WOULD NOT recommend this to anyone who IS NOT STABLE or has problems with gas.
**Bell peppers, which I chop very finely and mix with rice, couscous, or add to something like safe macaroni salad.
**corn, chopped onion, chopped tomatoes (seeded & peeled if possible) I use as you would a condiment, maybe a T of one of these added to my mashed beans or bean dip.
And would the pureed cooked green beans still be IF? what I'm confused about is if cooking also takes away the IF factor. I don't really eat a lot of green beans, but I think cooking takes away some IF but not all. I don't know if zucchini is SF inside. Could be since it is in the squash family. So even with the skin, the amount of IF could be minimal. That's what I was thinking too! When you cook your zucchini, do you add in your mushrooms raw? But they are SF anyhow so even raw wouldn't help me with IF. No, it probably wouldn't help, but it tastes good.
Wouldn't your peeled apples in your salad take away the IF? Yes, but the peel really bothers me. Sometimes I leave the peel, if the salad is for bf and me, and I can have about one slice of apple and feel okay. I'm afraid to try anymore than that even though I just get gassy, not really an IBS attack. It's just another one of those personalized IBS things, I guess.
BTW, which IF foods wouldn't need to be cooked? I'm thinking blueberries and canned pineapple(if blended or pureed), tomatoes (seeded; if chopped and not eaten, in large quantities I can tolerate the skin), nut butters, bell peppers (chopped finely). The sulfur-rich foods, like broccoli, I'll only eat well-cooked and mashed. That's all I can think of for now...
Sorry so dense on this this morning. I'm having a bad week with personal problems (I'll explain later). I'm sorry you're having a tough week. And I don't think you're dense! This is a tough subject to understand, especially when the nutrional information for so many items just lumps both types of fiber as "dietary fiber." I think I'm really on to something with this and why I'm still so constipated and why H's diet hasn't worked so well for me. Because I haven't been doing it correctly, even though I thought I was! I keep learning new things too! I feel like you're on the right track as well! And you're asking really good questions that are getting me to think about what I'm eating and how I'm eating and really read and comprehend what Heather has outlined. I feel like I have a better grasp on IF and SF just by discussing it with you!
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This is right
#185142 - 06/09/05 11:00 AM
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Dia
Reged: 02/04/05
Posts: 175
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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...at least as far as I understand things! Of course, I'm newer than both of you, so maybe I'm confused, too!
Also, I think peeling an apple will make it totally SF, but for other fruit, like a peach, for example, while most of the IF is in the peel, there's still a little in the flesh. So if you peel and cook a peach, the little bit of IF in the flesh will be easier to digest than eating it raw. (But I still think there's IF in cooked fruits and veggies that have IF, it's just easier to tolerate.)
Hope I got all that right, and didn't make things more confused!
--Myra
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IBS-D
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You're right, Ruchie! I feel like calling you Wise Ruchie because you know the diet so well and always give good suggestions! Like eating the potato peel, which is a good source of IF and, I think, pretty tasty.
What do you think about seed butters? I've never tried one, but I do fine with small amounts of nut butters.
Thanks for your help !
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Heather, help us please!
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--------------------
God is Faithful!
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"Wise Ruchie" That's too cute! I think I've just been here for sooooo long, I can't help but pick things up!
What are seed butters? I think almond butter is safe...used sparingly as it DOES have a lot of fat. I would use it the same as peanut butter...a teaspoon or two at a time. But of course, see what works for you!
Let me know what a seed butter is, I'm curious!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Sunflower seed butter or sesame seed butter (I think it's also called tahini). I've seen it at the store, Kettle brand--I should check the fat content! Maybe I'll give it a try and report back.
I've tried almond butter before in very small amounts, but it was during that time I was trying to figure out what bothered me, what didn't. I did okay with a small amount but I was kind of hopping around from food to food. Plus, it's kind of pricey. I should try it again though, since I can eat PB and I'm doing a bit better financially.
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I can't find anything unsolved!
I've also realised reading these posts that alot of you are eating less IF than me and I don't get bad C! Serves me right for thinking I didn't know enough about C to be very helpful. Sorry.
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Wowee, I'd get C if I did all that! I eat zucchini cooked with it's skin, sweet peppers with skin, pears with skin, raisins, tangerines, cucumber with skin...ALL the time.
You just need to minimise it enough for you to tolerate it. This level varies per person...but for C you usually need MORE IF in your diet than D's. I'm not saying go eat a bag of apples with their skins, but you've got to get quite alot of IF in safely - by which I mean in small portions, after SF and with the IF minimised to your tolerance level.
Edited by Linz (06/09/05 11:28 AM)
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what would be the fun in that? "Sand" is short for "Cassandra" (although that's not my name).
Sandra Boynton (web page) is a hysterical cartoonist who, I think, practically invented Shoebox Cards (a tiny little division of Hallmark). The first Shoebox Card I ever saw was had one of her cuddly furry blue monsters on the front - when you opened it up, it said, "When you care enough to send the hairy beast". Now she seems to do mostly children's books, but she does do a chocolate calendar, with lots of helpful advice like, "Stay away from weddings. Weddings are notorious for serving all white cake with no chocolate in sight."
I've veered seriously off-topic but I'll never pass up a chance to plug Boynton. I wonder if this thread holds the record for most responses? I don't think even the Luna Bar threads get this much traffic!
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Edited by Sand (06/12/05 03:21 PM)
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I have to admit I never thought of using that as a book title, but I laughed out loud when I read your suggestion. The book that goes with it would be hysterical, wouldn't it?
I do write a little - I think about writing a lot, but I only actually write a little - but my writing is a little dark to use that title. So, if someone else wants it, they're free to use it. (I do get the standard 10%, of course. )
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Tahini
#185174 - 06/09/05 11:37 AM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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Great in hummus - I love the Smoky Eggplant Hummus from Heather's EFI. Calories 200, calories from fat 160. Even apart from the high fat content, to me it's far too strongly flavored to use as a spread like PB, but it's a great accent flavor. You can Search on the Recipe Index for "tahini" and probably find other recipes to use it in.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I'm IBS-D, so feel free to ignore me if you want - or scream if it makes you feel better - but I have 3 questions:
How much acacia are you taking now?
What did your progression to this point look like? (For example, I started with 1/2 teaspoon of acacia per day and went up 1/2 teaspoon per day every 3 days. Roughly.)
Are you getting any insoluble fiber at all?
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I'm the last one, too. Everything I eat lately looks like something you'd get a curry place (minus the spices and triggors and fats that would get me to a restroom in a hurry).
I just give it a few degrees of spice for others. It's so gut-friendly and gut-soothing.
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I'm confused because some people posted that removing the skin of all fruits, even nectarines, peaches, and plums make them Soluble fiber by removing the peel. That's how I interpreted Heather's reply.
But Myra said that with some fruits, like peaches, peeling them still allows them to retain some IF, but just makes them more tolerable.
So, I'm confused if peeling makes all fruits/veggies SF and also if cooking them makes them all SF (either with or without the peel). For example, would unpeeled cooked nectarines be be IF or SF? Would cooked peeled zucchini be SF or IF? What would cooked but unpeeled zucchini be? What about fresh green beans vs cooked green beans?
The whole peeling and cooking thing is mixing me up. Do both of these remove the IF? Or just the peeling? Or neither?
Hope all that makes sense.
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I don't want to butt in too far, Beth. I puree my green beans and generally I leave the skins on the zucchini, now. I like mixing and matching, depending on my mood and availability and the selected sf. I basically eat whatever I like that agrees with me and stick it in the food processor. I don't puree the mushrooms unless I'm making a vegan loaf or dip. What blenders do is make any insoluables more soluable and easier to digest/process/assimilate. I still personally have triggers, or foods that even blended totally disagree with me and so I don't bother consuming them (I'm not a sado-masochist). If I'm eating fruit, a mango for example I might toss in some raspberries or strawberries for a little IF, but only if I'm up to it.
The veggies are the most incredible accompaniements/enhancements/sauces/additions/enhancements to sf, for rice/noodles/pasta/grains in general/potatoes/mushrooms/homemade chapati, etc. Not just re: fiber, but flavour and nutrients!
I'll get off your case. Sorry.
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There are a lot of nut/seed butters available--blended IF. Everything from pumpkin seed, to sunflower seed, to sesame seed (tahini), hemp seed, soy, almond, pistachio, cashew, etc.
Most are roasted and some are raw. They are quite high in fat.
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Re: Tahini
#185213 - 06/09/05 12:56 PM
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Wind
Reged: 04/02/05
Posts: 3178
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Often in middle Eastern dip recipes, tahini appears. I just substitute another liquid, usually broth or water or a vinegar.
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most fruits and veggies have both in and sol fibers, usually the insoluble mostly in skins/seeds and the soluble fiber inside. But there's some of both kinds in both parts, in general.
You want to minimize your insoluble fiber only enough so that you can tolerate it. If you cook your insoluble fiber, or puree it, or otherwise break it down before you eat it, it's easier to tolerate it. If you just remove most of the insoluble fiber from a fruit or veggie altogether (by peeling it, removing the seeds) then you're just plain not getting any.
There are no black and white rules here, just guidelines. If you can tolerate some raw fruits and veggies (and most folks can, if they have soluble fiber first, if they cut them up or chew thoroughly, if they blend them, etc.) then definitely eat them! If you only need one of these precautions (like not eating raw fruits/veggies on an empty stomach) then you don't have to bother with the rest of them.
If you can tolerate some skins/peels, wonderful - eat as much as possible.
The whole point of the IF guidelines is to let people know that these foods can cause problems, and to give them ways to eat these foods anyways. How you work within the guidelines is up to you, and won't just vary from person to person but will vary for everybody at different times depending on how stable they are. IBS can come and go, the severity can come and, and so can how much insoluble fiber you can tolerate.
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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If I have one of those "notmilks" or "mock milks" I seriously hurl or just feel sick or get D/tummy ache. Even if there is no carrageenan or emulsifier/stabilizer added.
One of my favourite salads, on a stable day is a little spring mix/mesculn topped with lots of roasted mushrooms and a little lemon, balsamic vinegar and dijon/herbs. This is only at the end of a meal, i.e. for dessert? Head lettuce, though, causes intense distress which I won't bother describing.
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Pumpkin seed butter is extremely nutrient rich, pretty low in fiber and very yummy! If you can tolerate small amounts of fat, I highly recommend it.
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Currently at 2 tsp, 2x/day of Acacia.
Added roughly 1/2 tsp every two or three days.
Getting a pretty good amount of IF (blended in smoothies and soups mostly) and fats (which I can tolerate pretty well).
I don't know how much this matters. Even strong laxatives aren't working for me since the antibiotics.
Chris
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I have to admit that about 15 minutes after I posted my questions, I realized I was tending once again toward the "do it harder, do it righter" approach. I apologize for that - I'm beginning to think it's just hard-wired into my brain. Actually, I think it has nothing to do with my brain - it comes straight from my mouth - or fingers - with no cognitive intervention whatsoever.
I do have 2 thoughts. Unfortunately, they're contradictory. First, I'm IBS-D and I take 8 teaspoons of acacia a day, so 4 teaspoons isn't very much. Heather suggests somewhere that IBS-C people may need 4 Tablespoons a day. Even if the acacia doesn't seem to be helping, as long as it's not actively hurting, maybe you could keep going up on the dosage and see if it eventually helps.
Second, Ruchie's advice to drop the acacia and try just the Miralax makes sense in that adding more than one supplement/drug at a time can make it hard to see how each is affecting you.
That's it. I posted a thought about acacia versus other SFS here that might be worth a look. And I started a new post about soluble vs insoluble (peel, chop, cook) here - I was getting lost trying to follow the various streams in this thread. (I think you've established a new record for responses.)
I'm so sorry things aren't improving for you. Please take care.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I totally agree--it's a nutrient powerhouse, that and hemp. It blends/combines deliciously with some of the more ancient grains (quinoa, amaranth, millet) and greens, too. It's full of MINERALS! Zinc, magnesium to empasize a few. If you can tolerate it it's great for your nerves!
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Thanks once again for pointing me in the direction of a very helpful thread. What would I do without you?
The last message in the thread made a lot of sense to me, and seems to match my experience. I can almost feel the gel "padding" that Acacia is creating in my gut, and it has contributed I think to reducing spasms. However, my problem right now is CLEARLY motility related because even two 17 mg doses of Miralax isn't doing the trick.
The Fruit-Eze definitely did do the trick, but with pretty intense consequences - which in both cases I'd guess was due to the higher IF content. Back in the day, before the antibiotics totally paralyzed my system, I was taking a fiber supplement called FiberSmart with a blend of flax and borage seed (mix of SF and IF) that seemed to work pretty well for me.
I think I will just try the Miralax for a while and see how that goes, then add in the Acacia later. Otherwise it's impossible to know what is affecting me how.
Yeah, I guess this thread is getting pretty big, huh?
Chris
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Hi yes i have found this, and mix in some benefiber with it, i might try lowering the acacia dose even morehaving read this.
R
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I suspected that Acacia made my C worse (or atleast didn't help at all) before, so I stopped for awhile. I just ordered it again for another try. This is my 3rd order of Acacia since November 2004. Will let you know what I think this time around....
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Thanks for telling me about pumpkin seed butter. I've never heard of it! I'll have to see if I can find it at my local HFS. Sounds delicious!
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Ah ok!
#185315 - 06/09/05 11:45 PM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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Unfortunately it's not that black and white as the "safety" methods are about minimising IF NOT getting rid of it exclsuively.
Eg. Zucchini peel is a good source of IF, but cooking it makes it easier to digest. Zucchini flesh is like apple flesh - raw it has a small amount of IF, but if you cook it then you can consider it to be SF.
I think Sand and Heather have covered this in more detail now, but let me know if not.
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This is so important! I'd only recommend taking almost all of it out of your diet if you're majorly D AND then only til you start to stabilise. You C's need even more IF than the rest of us. I've realised now that I've actually been eating way more IF than many of you C's and I'm an A, tending towards D!
Eating IF safely does NOT mean trying to exclude it from your diet. We all need it and ESPECIALLY if you get C.
Plus...Why on Earth would any IBS-er eat PRUNES (which are so harsh) when they not eating regular sources of IF. I think that would trigger an IBS response in anyone...no IF and then a highly concentrated source.
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I was a strict IBS-D at first - but once I became stable on the diet -- I then started to go more IBS-A. I tried switching to Acacia fiber then too. I got constipated then too. It was pretty bad - when I could go, they were dry and painful stools. So, I switched to Citrucel. My body balanced back out. Sometimes you just need a different SFS. I think Acacia is perfect and great for most things -- just didn't work for me. Thought I'd share my experience since you guys were talking about something like it. Maybe it'll help.
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Re: AC
#185364 - 06/10/05 06:43 AM
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AstroChick
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 1023
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
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Yep, I do eat all those other fruits. Admittedly, I don't eat huge amounts at one sitting: one banana or a handful of berries/cherries, or one sliver of melon. I know my limits! Oh, and I do eat peaches and nectarines when they're in season and don't peel them unless it's a *really* fuzzy peach.
The green bean salad would be slighly cooked green beans - still snappy, but not chewy-raw. Marination also softens them up a bit. Salade Nicoise is tuna and green beans and potatoes and (um) olives and some other good things - it's a fairly safe choice in a French restaurant if they'll give you the dressing on the side.
I'll give you a wave right back, neighbor! I live in Oak Park, but not in a Frank Lloyd Wright house...
--AC
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I thought I had this all figured out from Sand's and Casey's posts, but now I'm confused again. Please bare with me, okay? I really am trying to grasp this as it could really help me.
I thought cooking, pureeing kept the IF intact and allowed the amount of IF to remain the same in the fruits/veggies, but just made the IF easier to digest.
I thought that only peeling the fruit/veggie removed the IF.
So, if you leave the skin on, but still cook or puree with the skin on , or cook and puree grean beans (that don't have a skin), that the amount of insoluble fiber would remain unchanged.
Again, I thought only peeling removed the IF??
This part of your reply seems to contradict this:
"Zucchini flesh is like apple flesh - raw it has a small amount of IF, but if you cook it then you can consider it to be SF".
What am I missing here guys? I'm sorry to posting on this subject, but it's an important basis of the diet.
Thank you so much!
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Cyndy, I believe you're absolutely right about chopping/cooking/pureeing NOT chaging IF and I think Linz does, too. Her whole quote is:
Quote:
Unfortunately it's not that black and white as the "safety" methods are about minimising Insoluble Fiber NOT getting rid of it exclsuively.
Eg. Zucchini peel is a good source of IF, but cooking it makes it easier to digest. Zucchini flesh is like apple flesh - raw it has a small amount of IF, but if you cook it then you can consider it to be SF.
(I added the colors for clarity and emphasis.)
Pretty much ALL fruits and vegetables are a mixture of SF and IF. In general, for peelable ones, most - but not all - of the IF is in the peel and most - but not all - of the SF is in the flesh (meat, insides, innards). I think what Linz is saying here is that in zucchini, most of the IF is in the peel, but there's still some in the flesh, also. Peel the zucchini and you get rid of most - but not all - of the IF. Cook the flesh and you make the IF in there so easy to digest that, combined with how little there is to begin with, you can eat it as if it's all SF.
I guess when I think about it this way, I understand why people keep asking if they need to cook mangoes or papayas - they must have at least some IF, also. Which I guess also goes back to my, "I eat raw carrots and potatoes. Isn't that okay because they're SF?"
Okay, here's my new stance. The SF foods on Heather's list are SF whether they're raw or cooked. However, since all SF foods contain at least a little IF, too, they're safest if cooked. Probably - this is a stretch, here - the crunchier the SF food is, the better it is to cook it. So, applesauce, bananas, mangoes, papayas, avocados - not crunchy, definitely no cook. Carrots, potatoes - crunchy, cook. Zucchini - somewhere in the middle, probably okay raw, but cook if you want to be sure it's safe.
I did a long post on this last night which agrees with your understanding of IF/SF and which I'm now going to update with my new stance on cooking SF foods. I started a new thread because I was getting hopelessly lost trying to follow who's responding to whom in what part of this thread - especially since the indentation has slid so far over to the right that it's now slid back to the left! Plus, there are now so many responses that my Mac is making funny noises when I ask it to go into this thread - even in Threaded mode. I think it would just throw up if I asked it to try Flat mode.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Where do you find it? I thought I'd seen everything...almond butter, sesame oil....never seen/heard of pumpkin seed butter! Is there another name for it?
Maria...it's funny to me that you call Tahini sesame seed butter. To me, it is an Israeli "dip" or "spread"!  I find it so interesting how we all have different names for things depending on cultural backrounds!!!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Major Bummers! I had a similar reaction-It made me anxious. I took it for ~6 months for diabetic gastroparesis. Using a more gentle approach, I have found that eating ginger before a meal and chewing gum after a meal helps to stimulate digestion. I hope you find something that works well for you.
~Jess
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Omega Nutrition is one company that makes pumpkin seed butter. I can get it at several of my local HFS, but I live in San Francisco (which has probably the best HFSs in the world!)
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As this one is getting beyond mass confusion. But I don't know how to move the reply to the above post over to the new thread!
So, What I thought Linz was saying was that cooking the veggie would remove the IF, not just make it easier to digest. If you look at her last line... "but if you cook it then you can consider it to be SF". So, I interpreted this statement as saying, yes, cooking does remove the IF...
Again, don't mean to beat this to death...just trying to get as much IF in me and as safely as I can.
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Thanks Chris!
How are you feeling these days?
--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie
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Same as when I started this post, unfortunately! (Seems like ages ago, huh? )
Since those antibiotics my colon has felt completely paralyzed. Everything I eat seems to just sit there, no movement at all. I have less cramping, gas and pain but as I get more and more constipated that's coming back too.
I'm stopping the Acacia for now and just sticking with Miralax, which I recently started (very reluctantly), to get things moving. When that happens, I'll probably start up with a different SFS and wean myself off of the Miralax. I'm also doing "digestive yoga" every day to try to stimulate and strengthen the muscles in my gut, get them flexing again! Perhaps if I start having regular BMs I can try a probiotic again... in the past they've always made things worse, but I suspect that had something to do with the bacterial overgrowth I had before the antibiotic treatment.
My sense is that for me the main problem is constipation. But, how do I resolve that problem without causing more gas, bloating and pain? That's the million dollar question.
I'm going to try acupuncture again and maybe biofeedback as well. I'm 60 days into the hypnosis program, and while it is relaxing, I don't notice any changes in my gut symptoms.
I guess there's always voodoo and aura healing if this doesn't work
(no offense to any voodoo or aura healing practitioners! In fact, call me!)
Chris
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Hi Chris!
Antibiotics GAVE me my IBS at age FIVE!
I would take out sugar for starters and I would consider removing gluten and yeast as well. I'm not sure how I feel about the candida theory/ Bu I can tell you what I've done that has helped me! No dairy, sugar (except some fruit...not even honey...just a bit of stevia here and there). No gluten. I will have yeast on occasion. Now I have alcohol for Shabbos sparingly but I didn't drink any lcohol for about a year or two. I basically have gotten to a point where I notice how food makes me feel quickly! For example, the smoothie I made this morning that I posted about on the boards had too much sugar for me. I feel lethargic and lighteaded/spacey now!
Let me know if you want more info.
You WILL heal!
Take care, Ruchie
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Jess??
#185419 - 06/10/05 09:21 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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What kind of ginger do you eat before a meal??? The kind you find in the produce market? You just eat that raw? Or do you eat something like crystallized ginger or perhaps take ginger capsules?
Or do you use the spice in your food?
I would love to try this.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I have some, and I have NO idea what to do with it!! I'm allergic to peanuts and sensitive to nuts so I've never had any kind of nut butter and I'm just clueless! It's pretty strange stuff.
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No, cooking MINIMISES the IF. So if you peel zucchini (removing MOST of the IF) and then cook the flesh, the little remaining IF is so minimised so you might as well count the food as being a totally SF food - as so little IF is left.
Minimises, not removes, okay? NOT black and white.
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you said peeling and cooking minimizes the IF. What I am so confused about, obviously , and embarrassingly too, is if just cooking without doing the peeling minimizes the amount of IF or just makes it more digestible.
I thought Sand's post said it does NOT minimize the amount of IF, just helps to make it more digestible.
Sorry, guys...I'm trying here... thanks for your patience.
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Hi Augie! How are you? STill waiting for my GI results. I saw this post too about Ginger, so I was at the store today and picked some up...only 3.95....they are capsules and the lady there said they are great for digestion. I'm going to try some today and use them for a few days and see what happens. It was very expensive, so it's worth a shot.
Jessica
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Minimising the IF makes it easier to digest. As we know, SF only foods are easy to digest! HOWEVER we all need IF to be healthy and if you're prone to C you need IF even more to help prevent the C.
So you could peel an apple - and that will reduce the IF - OR cooking will minimise the IF that's there, so if you do both, you really minimise the IF in the apple.
Anyway, you NEED IF.
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I'm going to make up numbers here, so don't worry about the amounts I'm using - who knows how much fiber a zucchini actually has and frankly, after all this, I'll probably never be able to eat another one. Funny, they look so harmless in the store, cute, almost friendly.
A zucchini has 10 grams of fiber, broken down like this:
4 grams of IF in peel
1 gram of SF in peel
4 grams of SF in meat (innards, inside, pulp)
1 gram of IF in meat
So, the whole zucchini has 5 grams of IF and 5 grams of SF. If you take that poor little zucchini, chop it into a million pieces, cook it to death, and puree it, it still has 5 grams of IF and 5 grams of SF. The IF is easier to digest because it's been chopped, cooked, and pureed, but the amount of IF is the same - 5 grams.
If you take another identical zucchini and peel it, now the meat that's left has only 5 grams of fiber: 4 SF and 1 SF. If you now take just the meat and chop, cook, puree it, it still has 4 grams of SF and 1 gram of IF.
In other words, if you physically remove part of the zucchini by peeling, you can change the amount of IF (and the amount of SF, but who cares?).
However, chopping, cooking, and pureeing do NOT change the amount of IF - they just make it easier to handle.
(The next time we do this, can we please pick a vegetable that's easier to type than "zucchini"?)
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Edited by Sand (06/12/05 03:18 PM)
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Sorry, but I can't help laughing re: zucchini (I just consumed some) and well now I know exactly how you feel re: knowledge of the beast! I thought they were a little friendlier than that!
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spread it on toast, mix it in with grains (rice, quinoa, oatmeal, etc.), put it on pancakes, crackers... in all cases combining with SF of course.
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Good Morning! I guess I am not the only Jessica I don't take straight ginger root unless I am having a very primal day(kidding). I buy cryatalized ginger from Trader Joes. Each piece is ~ a 1/2 inch square and it tastes great. I have used ginger caps before many years ago, but they didn't work as well for me. Hope you you have a wonderful weekend.I am leaving for San Diego in a few.It's a seven hour car drive, I really wish I had a port-a-potty!
~Jess (aka serpentes3)
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I read someone's post that Acacia makes those with C more
constipated? Tell me it's not true! I just spent $$$
on it! Have other 'C' people experienced this??
Heather? Can you address this. thanks.
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I thought I got more C the first two months I tried Acacia. I just ordered it a third time after taking a break. Now, I'm taking 1-2 Tbs ground flaxseed in the morning and 2 1/4 tsp Acacia in the evening. This combination, so far, has not made me more C. I've only been trying this "combo" for a week, but have been doing quite well. I'm going to gradually increase the Acacia. (started at 2 tsp and just increased yesterday)
Just give it a try. Everyone's different.
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I would think that the morning meal would need to be more SF based before taking flax. Do you take any SFS before the flax? Is the cereal you put it in SF or IF based?
I'm tying 2 tsp of flax in my cereal, but I'm afraid maybe this isn't the best (safest) way to start out my day? But without being able to handle any SFS so far, thought flax would be a worth a try. I put it in my cream of brown rice cereal with a cooked peeled nectarine.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Sometimes people don't take a high enough dosage, or they don't take the time to gradually increase their dose, or they stop taking laxatives at the same time they start taking a SFS. Or they aren't eating enough (or any) insoluble fiber foods.
But soluble fiber (ALL soluble fiber - Acacia and otherwise) just regulates bowel motility and normalizes water content. Different people have their own favorite varieties, and the dosages people need can vary as well, but there is no such thing as soluble fiber making constipation worse. It's literally a physical impossibility unless someone has a disorder like slow transit constipation where they simply have little or no peristaltic movement in their gut, period.
Best,
Heather
--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Heather,
Thank you for this clarification. As someone who has not found any relief from constipation with a soluble fiber supplement, I´m very curious to know if I´m one of those unlucky folks with the "slow transit constipation" you describe. I´m about to have a "sitz marker" test with my GI doc - will that tell me what I need to know? How can I rule it out (or in)?
Also, what would be the treatment for constipation caused by very low motility in the intestine?
Thanks,
Chris
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I was worried that because the cereal is cream of brown rice, that it wasn't SF enough for the flax.
I thought this would be too much IF first thing in am??
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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When I'm getting ready in the morning, I drink a glass of water/cranberry juice mixed with Miralax. About 30-40 minutes later, I eat breakfast. It's usually cold cereal (1/2 SF variety and 1/2 IF variety-- like rice Chex mixed with frosted mini wheats) with the flaxseed sprinkled on top. (and soy milk)
I've felt for years that I have to have a good bit of IF in my breakfast on a regular basis, or I get really C. Every now and then I can have a breakfast with all SF. That's just me.
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and slow transit is misdiagnosed as IBS a lot. In fact, not so many years ago doctors lumped virtually everyone with any kind of functional bowel disorder into the "IBS" category. It's only very recently that they've started to define other fuctional bowel disorders and to really tightly define and limit the criteria for IBS. My guess is that we'll see the category get even narrower, and more functional disorders defined as separate problems in their own right, as time goes on.
Bad news is I'm not sure there really is an effective treatment for stc right now - in really bad cases they remove the colon. Sometimes they put people on a diet with NO fiber at all - which means no plant foods, basically, which is an invitation to colon cancer, so not so great. They are working on drugs for the disorder, but I'm not sure where things stand. I also don't know if gut directed hypnotherapy has been studied for stc, but if it were me this would be my first approach, because it can't hurt and if it works, odds are it will work really, really well.
Let us know how things go...
Best,
H
--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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and brown rice cereal is more processed than just plain brown rice. So, see how you do. The odds are pretty good it will be just fine. If not, try mixing regular cream of rice cereal with the brown rice version.
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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...and I completely agree that as we learn more about various gut disorders, the "IBS" diagnosis will actually be broken down into several different diagnoses. I made that argument in another post recently, but it wasn't well received! You may or may not agree, but it seems to me that IBS-C and IBS-D are so different in what triggers them, how they're experienced and how they're treated that they must be different disorders. But I guess until we know how they're different and what to do about it, it's a moot point.
I have another question for you, that I also plan to ask my GI doc. What is the etiology of slow transit/decreased motility? Because for me it developed over time (if indeed it is what I have), and it has gotten DRAMATICALLY worse after the last course of antibiotics I took. How could antibiotics affect motility? Is there a relationship between gut flora and motility, or is it only regulated by neurotransmitter activity? If it is only nerve related, then how could antibiotics cause such a dramatic change?
Also, isn't Zelnorm a drug that would theoretically treat slow transit constipation, since it is stimulating the 5 HT-4 receptors associated with peristaltic action?
Perhaps there aren't any answers to these questions yet, but I thought I'd ask anyhow.
Chris
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Heather: Thanks for the clarification on Acacia. I guess I shouldn't take everyone else's emails to heart so much. Having a particularly bad few days where nothing is helping the C. I will keep going along and trying to find the right combo IF and SF and acacia and hope I hit on what works for me-- which is obviously one of the key factors in this whole IBS eating plan. Thanks again. Robin
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Quote:
...and I completely agree that as we learn more about various gut disorders, the "IBS" diagnosis will actually be broken down into several different diagnoses. I made that argument in another post recently, but it wasn't well received!
I agree also and I've made that case in a post or two myself. No one seemed to disagree with me about it - I just think that information isn't of much practical use right now so it's more academically interesting than personally useful for most of us. If you're one of the "outriders" whose IBS is further from the "mainstream" (read "harder to help"), it would be of more immediate interest to you, of course.
Let us know how your sitz marker test goes. I hope you're feeling at least somewhat better.
(Only 5 more responses and you hit 200.)
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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IMHO, there is a true IBS that incoporates D, C and A's like me where the triggers are similar and all that varies in diet is how much IF you need. And then there's the people with chronic C that doesn't respond to IBS treatments...and others. SO I kind of agree, but I split the C's and D's up even more!
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you might want to check medscape.com in their gastroenterology section. Everything on stc I've ever seen pretty much came from there.
I don't think researchers have learned more than 1% about the various factors that affect gut motility disorders. It's pretty clear by now that probiotics play a huge rule in both motility and inflammatory bowel disorders - but the details of how, exactly, aren't known. They've barely scratched the surface on the whole brain-gut dysfunction, as well. And how do all of these various factors tie together into one IBS or other motility disorder whole? No one has the faintest idea - not yet, anyway. I hope that research delves more into this big-picture approach in the future, and gets away from the microscopic focus on various serotonin receptors in the gut. The drugs that are coming out of that research are barely more effective than a placebo, the body seems to adapt to them very quickly and they stop working, and they're far too symptom-specific instead of addressing the whole enchilada.
One of the most important clarifications, I think, that has been made to IBS diagnostic criteria fairly recently is the insistence on the combination of pain plus bowel dysfunction. The dysfunction can be diarrhea, it can be constipation, or it can be alternating - but it cannot stand alone. It has to occur with abdominal pain. I think this is going to be a key distinguishing point between people who really have the dysfunction gastrocolic reflex, brain-gut abnormality, and hyperreactive bowel of IBS. My guess is that this criteria will allow other bowel motility disorders (which often do not include pain) to be separated out and treated like the distinct disorders they are. Some of those treatments might overlap with what works for IBS, but I doubt that all of them will.
- H
--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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we've just hit the tip of the iceberg, and I believe there's no such thing as IBS at all...but it's about 5 or 6 different things too. But for now, what we have is called this, and as new research becomes available, it will make so much of this make sense!
I'd love to see a psychological eureka come out of this... but I doubt it. I think we are so accustomed to eating crap all of our lives that it's totally wrecked some of our bodies-through us or our mothers.
Another theory i bounce around is, what if it IS some weird in utero thing? I bet a lot more happens in there than we know, developmentally. And who knows how many things could be atrributed to sweet little mommies sneezing too much while babies were in the tummies?
Just my thoughts on it. I'm a pretty hardcore thinker.
Heather, any opinions or research on that?
--------------------
Keep on keepin' on...
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If I have constipation WITH pain (and gas, bloating, etc.) does it follow then that I have IBS and NOT STC? Or is it possible to have both?
Chris
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I haven't seen the diagnostic criteria for STC (medscape probably has them) so I'm really not sure if it can include pain and other symptoms. I also don't know if STC and IBS can overlap, as IBD and IBS can.
If I were you I'd have a whole list of questions written out to take to your GI specialist!
- H
--------------------
Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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The key for me was getting rid of the insoluble fiber. Just adding soluble fiber is not enough. Wheat fiber and too many raw vegtables will actually make me constipated! I had to learn to substitute the soluble fiber (including daily Citrucel) for the insoluble, not just add it. Now that I've gotten that concept, I'm doing much better with both the D and the C.
Also, eliminating anything that irritates my bowel is a must. Caffeine, chocolate (sob!), alcohol, cigarette smoke...it doesn't matter what else I eat when those are in my system. I actually experience D and C at the same time, when my GI tract is inflamed with these things, and no amount of soluble fiber helps.
Judy
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Would you like the name of the doctor who helped me recover from intractable C? He's something of an expert on the relationship between nutrition, bowel health and C in particular. He's on the west coast of the U.S.
What are you eating currently? I know that you are following Heather's guidelines, but what do you actually eat on a typical day for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
--------------------
Gem
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Yes, I'm definitely interested in the doctor you mentioned. Would you mind telling me a bit more about his perspective and methodology, so I know whether I've "been there, done that" or not?
Typical day might be smoothie in the morning, a piece of sourdough toast with thin spread of pumpkin seed butter snack, grilled chicken and pressure cooked carrots and squash and a small salad for lunch, and maybe rice and veggies and soup for dinner.
But I've tried many other diets and approaches as well, so it's hard to say what's "typical".
I've temporarily made my email address visible on my profile here. It would probably be better to continue the discussion that way.
Thanks,
Chris
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How could antibiotics affect motility?
I would like to know the answer to that question. My first experience with IBS was after being on steriods and antibiotics for three months straight. It took me three months after finding Heather's website to get stable. Along with taking Zelnorm and Miralax. Now, I just stick with Heather diet and take SFS to stay stable.
I did have attack a few weeks ago when the weather hit 110*.
I had to take Miralax for a couple days after that attack to get things moving again. But, now I'm back to just taking the SFS and the diet.
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That does seem to be the million dollar question, as many here seem to have had their first experiences with IBS after taking antibiotics. As Heather commented, there is clearly a relationship between the intestinal flora and motility but it is not well understood. Dr. Mark Pimentel at the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in LA has published research demonstrating a positive correlation between bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine and IBS. Interestingly enough, he uses antibiotics to treat this problem and has had results that are more effective and any other published IBS treatment (until Heather's diet is properly researched, of course )
So, ironically, in some cases antibiotics can cause IBS and in some cases they seem to "cure" it. However, many health care practitioners, indluding an increasingly large number of doctors, argue that the "cure" is temporary and that the bacterial organisms that aren't killed by the drugs will actually strengthen and proliferate. Also, the imbalance of flora caused by antibiotics can lead to yeast overgrowth in the gut, the symptoms of which closely resemble "IBS" and Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Unfortunately there's no clear cut answer. I believe my IBS was caused by the initial infection of parasites and amoebic dysentary, and then probably worsened by the several courses of antibiotics I've had to take in order to clear those infections. Based on my most recent experience with antibiotics and they're effect on me, I won't be taking them again unless I'm on my deathbed... and even then I'd be looking for other alternatives.
Chris
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Antibiotics can cause severe GI side effects, like cramping and diarrhea. Any severe "insult to the gut" can cause permanent damage to the nervous system of the gut and the way that nervous system interacts with the brain. This results in IBS, and the ongoing motility problems.
So, it's *possible* that it's not technically the antibiotics themselves (though killing off all the good biotics in the gut surely doesn't help). Maybe it's the side effects, and their lasting damage to the gut's nervous system?
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Heather,
Isn't IBS constipation predominant slow motility? I think that's the problem with me. What you're saying then is that soluble fiber can make my constipation worse?
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STC
#189534 - 06/27/05 11:41 AM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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Slow Transit Colon (STC) is a different problem to IBS, but one that I believe is often misdiagnosed. If you have STC not IBS then a SFS is not the way to go. IF you have IBS-C, not STC, then a SFS is a good plan.
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Re: STC
#189579 - 06/27/05 01:36 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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STC,SFS,IBS-C,LOL!!
too many acronyms!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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the same thing too. I mean, the stool won't move causing constipation. Constipation is suppose to be helped by SFS....and the symptom of STC is constipation...so what's a person with STC to do? Not that I know I have it because stupid doctor won't order one darn test for me!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Hi Beth,
My understanding, at least from my doctor, was that the slow transit can obviously cause and that could be one plausible explanation for a person's chronic constipation. However, chronic constipation can be due to a number of other problems even in a person with a healthy, normal-functioning colon. In my case, I have fine motility according to the sizemark capsules but my functional/structural troubles are causing my constipation.
Some people who suffer from redundant colon also might show symptoms of chronic constipation. The redundant colon, just a larger size colon than normal, tends to trap more stool than the average individual.
The sizemark test is so easy to do, so you should ask your doc to order it. AT least then you would be closer to learning why exactly you suffer from chronic constipation.
Hope this helps!
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