I'm a newbie with a question!
#60848 - 04/13/04 03:03 PM
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Shelli
Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
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Hello, I'm new here! I can't say that I'm thrilled to be here. . .I'm sure you understand!  I've done a search on the boards but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. How long after you eat something does it take to "affect" you? Example, if I eat something and 15 min. later am having IBS, then it can't be that food, right? It would still be in my stomach not in my intestines. How long for food to reach the intestines? Last night I ate steak. I was fine all evening. This morning I decided to start the diet Heather recommends to break the cycle I'm in. So all I had this morning was a white dinner roll and water. A few hours later I had an awful IBS episode and was on the heating pad. So it probably wasn't the roll, but was the steak from 16 hours earlier?
Well, to introduce myself: I was diagnosed with IBS 15 years ago. After a year of hell, I got it under control by taking psyllium husk. Gradually the flare-ups got less intense and less frequent. Over the years since it has just been an infrequent, mild annoyance. I didn't always keep up with taking the psyllium husk...here and there. I ate whatever I wanted. Sometimes I'd have an attack a few times a year. There were some years I was totally symptom-free. Well, except for constipation....that's almost always a problem. But didn't have the severe abdominal pain/backache.
AND THEN WITHOUT WARNING THE IBS HAS REARED ITS UGLY HEAD AGAIN AND IN A MAJOR WAY. About a month ago I started having mild IBS symptoms about 3 days a week. Then it became every day and the symptoms became more severe. I have 3 small children and it is hard to care for them when I'm laying on a heating pad! So I started searching the web knowing that there has been alot more research and awareness about IBS in the past 15 years. I found Heather's site and was shocked to learn that whole wheat can be a trigger. I thought whole wheat would be good because I knew that fiber was good for IBS. In the past six months, I've been eating more whole wheat than ever in my life because I've been trying to eat more healthy...fewer refined carbs.
Also, an interesting thing here...four months ago when my son was born, I quit dairy because it seemed to bother him (breatfeeding). In the past month I've been slowly adding dairy back into my diet. It has also been in the past month that my IBS symptoms have returned. I've never had problems with dairy in the past...as I said I've been IBS free for long periods of time and eaten lots of dairy. But a breastfeeding website that talks about dairy bothering alot of infants said to reintroduce the dairy gradually because it can wreak havoc on your bowels. I did add it gradually but it seems to have stirred up my IBS. What do ya'll think of this?
I've also learned that although I've been taking Fibercon daily for the past few months, I"m not taking nearly enough!
Also, on the strict diet to break the cycle of attacks, can I put anything at all on my potato and rice? WHat about soy butter?
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Welcome Shelli!
#60863 - 04/13/04 04:43 PM
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Bevvy
Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 5918
Loc: Northwest Washington State
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Well, we have a Shell, a Shells, and now a Shelli! Cool.
Welcome to the Boards. You came to the right place.
I see you are a C person; I'm a D. But I think I can still help you out with some of your questions.
First of all, about how long it takes for an attack. I remember this being discussed last month (or the month before). You can get an attack instantly or it can be the next day or two, believe it or not. Whenever I eat spaghetti, I can never get through the entire meal without it hitting mid-fork-full. As I'm eating, it's through me! And it's IMMEDIATE -- BAM! I'm running to the toilet.
But then, last week (Thursday) I had turkey pepperoni for lunch. The next day, Friday, the cramps hit and lasted through the entire weekend, but the diarrhea didn't start until Sunday.
The only way I have been able to pinpoint the culprit is with a food journal. I've been keeping this sucker for 3 years now. I'm on volume 5. Tedious, yes, but it works!
Next, it wasn't the roll that caused your problem. Steak is a big no-no. You need to lose the red meat. Sorry.
I'm glad you know how to do a search. Look for psyllium, because I know it's been discussed in here, and as I recall it's really hard on the system. You need a good soluble fiber supplement. In my opinion, Heather's acacia is the best. Some folks here like Citrucel powder (the pills have only half the fiber in them that the powder has). You start out at a low dosage and work your way up to about 12-15 grams a day.
I think IBS has different levels of severity. At one time I could eat salads, but I can't now unless I have the soluble fiber beforehand and limit the salad to only a small serving. And of course, only fat-free dressing.
Whole wheat is hard for some folks to digest, so yes, it can be a trigger. Fortunately, it is not a trigger for me. See, everyone's different; what one can tolerate, another cannot. So I take advantage of it and eat ONLY whole wheat and substitute whole wheat flour for white whenever possible. Again, for most people, whole wheat is a no-no.
Yes, fiber IS good for IBS, that's right. If you can tolerate whole wheat, then by all means go for it. But if you think it's causing you a problem, then pass on it. It's pretty much a matter of trial-and-error on many foods.
Ah yes, dairy. Well, I don't know anyone with IBS who can tolerate the stuff. Dairy is such a trigger! I'm not at all surprised that it's "stirred up your IBS." I also used to be able to eat dairy, but now I can't go near the stuff. I have to check the ingredients on every single thing I buy -- as we all do -- and if there's any kind of dairy in it, I pass on it; otherwise, I can be guaranteed an attack.
How do you do with soy? Some people can't tolerate soy either, but most of us can. Again, it's trial and error. I gave up diary but replaced it with soy. I have soy milk, soy cheese, soy parmesan, soy "ice cream," soy burgers, soy sausage, soy cream cheese, soy sour cream, even soy butter. Have you ever tried Amy's frozen SOY CHEESE pizza? OMG! It's to die for.
Yes, you have to take an awful lot of Fibercon capsules to get enough fiber. I used to take it, then switched to Citrucel, and now I take Heather's acacia. I started out with only 1 teaspoon twice a day, and now, 4 months later, I'm up to 1 teaspoon plus 1 tablespoon twice a day. Again, everyone's different, but whatever fiber supplement you choose, you need to slowly begin increasing it until you get up to the 12-15 grams/day range.
Soy butter is fabulous stuff; I love Soy Garden. However, it is still a fat, so you have to use it sparingly. Remember, we have to limit the percentage of fat to less than 25% per meal.
On the carb issue: Shelli, you need to lose the belief that carbs are bad. They are not. This is quite an issue with all of us here, and we've discussed it ad nauseum, so I won't go into it again -- but you can do a search if you wish and read all the many posts. Heather explains it far better than I can.
You need to get Heather's book, "The First Year." It's our bible. If you like to cook, then by all means be sure to also get her fabulous, "Eating for IBS." The recipes in there are unbelievable. Also, check out our recipe board here. You'll be amazed at all the great IBS-safe dishes!
Shelli, I sympathize with you having to raise three young children with a hot pad on your tummy. When I have my heating pad on my tummy, I can't imagine having to also take care of anyone else at the same time. I give you a lot of credit, Girlfriend! But I know that will get better if you follow the program religiously and continue posting questions in here for everyone to help you. This is an incredible group of very knowledgeable people who have been there and know exactly what you're going through. I'm not a C person, but there are a LOT of them here, and they can definitely help you with that C problem!
Again, WELCOME!
Bev
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<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~letsrow/smily3481.gif">Bevvy
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Welcome! I hear a lot of myself in your words. I have an 8 month old, and gave up dairy because it bothered her, too.
There's tons of information on this site, and as you have time to read it through, a lot more will make sense.
I would consider stopping the psyllium. It can make things even worse. A lot of people on this site have found that it causes bloating and gas. I would recommend Heather's Acacia fiber (on this website). It's much better.
As for your IBS getting worse postpartum, I'm not surprised. With all the changes your body is going through, as well as exhaustion (3!!! kids!) and breastfeeding, I sympathize. The best thing you can do right now is get on a reliable fiber supplement, make sure you have lots of soluble fiber, and keep taking your prenatal vitamins.
Here's a part of the website that explains what you should avoid eating. The steak is a trigger. It is probably what caused the attack. Attacks can start literally minutes after you eat something or can affect you a day or so later even.
Here's some guidelines: web page
web page
We're glad you're here and be sure to ask questions.
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Formerly HanSolo. IBS, OCD, Bipolar, PTSD times 3.
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Quote:
...Look for psyllium, because I know it's been discussed in here, and as I recall it's really hard on the system.
FWIW, I take Citrucel tablets rather than Metamucil or other fibers because psyllium apparently helps cause bloating and believe me I need no help with that, I am bloating up like the goodyear blimp just fine on my own.
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...I don't know anyone with IBS who can tolerate the stuff. Dairy is such a trigger! I'm not at all surprised that it's "stirred up your IBS." I also used to be able to eat dairy, but now I can't go near the stuff.
My co-worker with IBS tolerates dairy (and has since her diagnosis 10 years ago). I think I might be okay with dairy too but I am just starting to try it a little now. I did a big no-no yesterday and ate 1/2 a piece of cheesecake  (it was put before me and I had recently had a "safe" snack so I wasn't on an empty stomach, so I thought "now's as good a time as any to test out dairy!" -- I wasn't thinking about the eggs but c'est la vie). Don't hate me for this, but so far, so good -- I had some problems with gas and soft stool this morning (but not an attack) but it wasn't much different than the same problems I had yesterday morning, pre-cheesecake.
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If you like to cook, then by all means be sure to also get her fabulous, "Eating for IBS." The recipes in there are unbelievable.
I made the garlic roasted potatoes and they came out sooooo good! Easy, too.
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Bev,
Thanks for the warm welcome and all of your input. I really appreciate just hearing a welcoming voice. I haven't taken psyllium in years. I took it when I was first diagnosed 15 years ago and it was actually what helped me get better. But I did have a lot of gas, but not any "attacks". I've been taking fibercon (but not enough, I now realize) but I like the idea of taking a natural fiber like Acacia so I'm going to order that.
I'm sure it was the steak that brought on the attack, only thing it could be. But I'm not convinced that that means I can't ever have steak again. LIke I said, I've been virtually IBS free for many years and I ate steak all the time. Maybe it is a combination of things that brought it back. I don't know....it's very confusing why it is back. I haven't eaten anything today but white bread and white rice. I'm going to eat this way until I'm symptom free for at least 3 days and then I'll gradually add foods back in. And, yes, (sigh) I guess I'll have to keep a food diary.
Like meat, dairy has never bothered me in the past, but I think since I was dairy free for 4 months my body wasn't used to it when I started eating it again.
Anyway, thanks for listening!
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Red Meat
#60905 - 04/13/04 08:21 PM
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bevp
Reged: 04/01/03
Posts: 135
Loc: Brisbane Australia
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Please has anyone been OK eating red meat? I really can't see my husband and daughter not eating red meat and as it is I tend to almost cook 2 meals each night because of the gluten and yeast free elements.
Do I really have to bite the bullet and forgo a good sirloin?
Bev
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I have a nice filet mignon about once a week with NO problem whatsoever, but then that's me. 
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it really is a universal trigger. Just about anyone who says they're okay with meat is still having problems, because the saturated fat and proteins are so difficult to digest. Even meat just once or twice a week is enough to keep the cycle of gut disruption going...and going...and going.  It's one of the most constipating foods you can eat...but the fats/proteins can also trigger diarrhea and cramps.
Can you get your hubby and daughter to transition to soy subs for red meat like bacon and burgers? It's not a food they need to be eating for their own health, whether they have IBS or not. And it would sure be nice for you to be able to cook one meal for everyone.
Best,
Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Thanks Heather, however that really is a pain as I love my meat. As well most soy subs (available here) have gluten in them.
I guess I'll have to learn to be more creative with chicken.
Bev
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I think they have a whomping list of gluten-free food sources. Maybe there are soy subs for meat in there that are also gluten free?
One easy thing to play with is TVP, textured vegetable protein. You can get plain versions that are nothing but dried soy. Cheap, easy to use, and works great in place of ground beef. The recipe board has tons of ideas for this, including sloppy joes and meatloaf, and other family-friendly ideas.
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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welcome Shelli,
I am sure NONE of us are thrilled to be here but I am thankful this place is here. If anyone is newly diagnosed this place helps TONS, good place to get advice, support,questions answered u name it. Hang in there.
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if God brought you to it. He will bring you through it.
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Chicken and turkey are okay, right? If so, ground turkey tastes just like ground beef if it is seasoned like for tacos or something like that. I'm still learning here so let me know.
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Quote:
it really is a universal trigger. Just about anyone who says they're okay with meat is still having problems, because the saturated fat and proteins are so difficult to digest. Even meat just once or twice a week is enough to keep the cycle of gut disruption going...and going...and going. It's one of the most constipating foods you can eat...but the fats/proteins can also trigger diarrhea and cramps.
So I know this is probably my denial talking because I LOVE a rare steak, but this confuses me. With almost all other foods, the conventional wisdom here is that it is individual, everybody's triggers are different, etc. etc. -- but this is NOT the case for red meat? 
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Yes, But --
#61006 - 04/14/04 09:01 AM
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Bevvy
Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 5918
Loc: Northwest Washington State
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-- be sure to buy extra lean ground turkey. Dark poultry "meat" is a trigger, so you want to be sure that ground turkey is the leanest you can get; if you can have the butcher grind the breast meat for you, that's your best bet.
I always buy Foster Farm's extra-lean; I know it's lean because when I make my meatloaf with it there's nothing to "drain" out from the pan when it's done. The meat loaf comes out drier because there's less fat for moisture. However, I prefer the dryness to the fat anyday!
There I go rambling again. In answer to your question: yes, ground turkey is fine.
HOWEVER, have you ever tried soy? Sometimes I substitute soy for ground turkey or turkey sausage; it's very good. The only time I didn't like the soy sausage was in my spaghetti sauce; the taste was all off.
Rambling again.
Yes to ground turkey.
Bev
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<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~letsrow/smily3481.gif">Bevvy
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Quote:
Quote:
it really is a universal trigger. Just about anyone who says they're okay with meat is still having problems, because the saturated fat and proteins are so difficult to digest. Even meat just once or twice a week is enough to keep the cycle of gut disruption going...and going...and going. It's one of the most constipating foods you can eat...but the fats/proteins can also trigger diarrhea and cramps.
So I know this is probably my denial talking because I LOVE a rare steak, but this confuses me. With almost all other foods, the conventional wisdom here is that it is individual, everybody's triggers are different, etc. etc. -- but this is NOT the case for red meat?
I guess it's kind of like dairy and coffee... it's one of those foods that contains things that just aren't healthy for us. 
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"Anyone can exercise, but this kind of lethargy takes real discipline." -Garfield
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Quote:
So I know this is probably my denial talking because I LOVE a rare steak, but this confuses me. With almost all other foods, the conventional wisdom here is that it is individual, everybody's triggers are different, etc. etc. -- but this is NOT the case for red meat?
Well, I totally disagree with conventional wisdom when it comes to diet and IBS. First of all, I think it's completely unhelpful to tell someone that everyone's triggers are different, so just find your own. That gives them no starting point whatsoever. "Conventional wisdom" for many years held that IBS was a mental problem - then it held that diet had no bearing on IBS whatsoever. Then it was that people needed a "high fiber" diet. Now (finally!) conventional wisdom, at least what's coming out in the actual research studies, recognizes the vast difference in how IBS folks respond to soluble fiber supplements (good) vs. insoluble fiber supplements (not good).
IBS is a defined medical disorder - anyone who has this diagnosis is considered, by definition, to have a dysfunctional GI nervous system. If we have the same underlying disorder, and we're given the same drugs and medical treatments, then to me it is ludicrous to say that our diets will all just be an individual thing. Either we have a gut problem (and thus solution) in common, or we don't.
Even more opposed to the conventional wisdom of diet and IBS is the fact that EVERYBODY'S gut responds the same way to several categories of food - soluble fiber, insoluble fiber, and fat. Fats and insoluble fibers are GI tract stimulants. Coffee is a stimulant and irritant. Alcohol and tobacco are irritants. Soluble fiber regulates gut muscle contractions and normalizes water content in the bowel, resolving both diarrhea and constipation. This is just basic human biology - it's simply playing a much more important role if you have a dysfunctional gut (and will have more extreme effects) than if you have a normal gut.
So...when a food is extremely difficult to digest, due to saturated fats and animal proteins the body has one hell of a time breaking down, and when the food has zero fiber and a very low water content, and when it's so clearly unfriendly to the gut that it actually raises your colon cancer risk...then I say conventional wisdom is pretty frickin' stupid if it STILL says that hey, this food (red meat) may or may not be a problem for you if you have IBS. I think that in this case, and with the vast majority of dietary concerns overall with IBS, triggers are not just an individual thing at all. They'll fall pretty clearly into the same categories for everyone. There may be some shades of gray betweeen one person and another, but there's also one hell of a lot of black and white.
My two cents....
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Heather,
I totally see what you're saying about IBS being a physical disorder and that all categories of food should affect all IBS people. I respect your knowledge and years of research on IBS so I hope I don't come across offensive, but my question is then how do you explain that some IBS people do in fact do okay with red meat. I don't remember the name now but I read somebody's post who said she eats a steak once a week and doesn't have an attack. And I'm really confused why my IBS suddenly returned. I've been virtually symptom-free for 13 years (except for maybe 1 or 2 minor attacks per year) and now suddenly it's back. HOw could I eat red meat, dairy, fried foods etc all this time and not have problems? There must be some factors that cause your gut to start responding abnormally; it seems for some people it comes and goes.
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Hi - IBS can come and go, for some people there are months or even years where they have zero problems. And then it can come back...sometimes for no apparent reason at all.
My point about diet is that if someone is having IBS symptoms, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to eat foods that are GI irritants, carcinogens, or just plain stimulants that are likely to overload the nervous system of their gut. I'd say that unless someone is eating a trigger food regularly, and going months on end without problem, it shouldn't be discounted as a potential problem food. It's really impossible to know if something is truly a trigger if you continue to eat it, continue to have problems, but just assume that the trigger is not what is causing you problems. It's easy to do this with foods that aren't fun to give up - and red meat and dairy fit the bill for many folks. Unless someone is just rock solid stable, and has been for many weeks or months, making a meal out of a trigger food once a week is just too often, and is likely causing problems. At the very least eliminating the food completely for a while will let them know what's really going on... it just may not be what they're hoping for.
Personally, red meat would be the food I just wouldn't want to make any exceptions for. Zero health benefits, lots of health risks, and probably the single worst thing you could put in your colon, especially on a regular (and weekly is definitely regular) basis. That would be often enough to continue chronic constipation, and trigger many days' worth of diarrhea and pain.
- H
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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I still eat red meat, and I am fine.
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I absolutely agree with heather. much as we don't know enough about the science of ibs, food is science. each food has its own unique structure, which impacts upon the digestive system in its own way. certain compounds create more havoc for the gut then others. these are universal triggers. you can fine tune the rest of the question marked ones..
even if someone CAN eat a steak once a week, that is not to say it is doing the gut anything positive even if an attack doesn't follow. i really believe my downfall this summer (5 months of the worst ibs hell i have known in my ten years of suffering) was because I kept eating wholegrains and ignoring my body's extremley subtle reactions and then BOOM it crashed.
red meat is just not neccessary...it may taste good but gives a healthy adult nothing that they cannot get from other, healthier sources.
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Feel the fear and do it anyway!
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