Aren't the items on Heather's list supposed to be SF foods and safe?!
#283404 - 09/21/06 10:27 AM
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Ulrika
Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 581
Loc: Uppsala, Sweden
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We have seen that quinoa seems to have fiber values all over the place and that Syl I think has found an article saying that 85% of the fiber content is insoluble for the quinoa in that particular article.
And now it seems Syl has found a table saying the biggest part of the fiber content of mushrooms is insoluble.
This doesn't agree in any way with Heather's safe list. Or does something magical happen turning IF to SF when you cook the items on the safe list which would mean they're only safe if eaten cooked? If so it would be very good if Heather clarified this. I eat raw carrots for example and I want to try raw red beat in salads. If it is ok that is. I think I read on a web page the other day, however, that beets are a good source for IF...
This is very confusing to me and upsetting too. I want to be able to trust Heather's info so that I don't think I'm planning my meals around safe foods if they aren't safe.
/Ulrika, IBS-D
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Good question
#283406 - 09/21/06 10:37 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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Ulrika has asked a question that has been bothering me too. We need a definitive and authorative source of SF/IF in common foods. This maybe difficult because the variety and in case of prepared foods, the blend, will determine the total fibre and SF/IF ratio.
The same problem exists with trying to find an authorative source of glucose & fructose too.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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Hi - I'm sorry, I don't have any info sources that aren't already on the website.
All I can tell you is that I've found it best to go by the "smushy" rule. If a fruit or veggie or grain smushes easily (like a banana, cooked sweet potatoes, or rice) that's a great indicator that it's soluble fiber. Quinoa is a good example. If it doesn't smush, or there are hulls, strings, seeds, roughage, etc. that indicates insoluble fiber.
I find this to be a faster, easier, and more reliable way to see if what I'm eating is soluble or insoluble.
If you have more posts on this, please keep to the same threads instead of starting new ones.
Best,
Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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Smushy rule
#283417 - 09/21/06 11:24 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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I find this rule very useful. It has allowed me to distinguish between the different varieties of squash. Some varieties have long string fibres and they give me problems. Other such as butternut squash smush really easy and I have no problems with them. None of the mushrooms that I can buy here smush.
Perhaps it would be helpful to put the "smushy" rule at the beginning of the list of soluble fiber foods.
Thank you for the clarification.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
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It's on the SF list...but is Heather saying it's insoluble because it isn't smushy? Is it safe or unsafe to use quinoa as a SF source with peas or spinach???
Please help, as quinoa is a staple for me. I eat it every other day or so.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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NO NO NO.... when Heather said....."Quinoa is a good example", she meant of the smushy rule. I had to re-read it also to make sure I understood right.... Quinoa is a SF just like it is shown on the list.... it is totally safe to eat.
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Different manufacturers may sell products that smush more or smush less depending on the blend. If in doubt you can always call the manufacturer's customer relations and ask for the amount of SF and IF.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
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it likely has some insoluble fiber.
Best,
Heather
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Heather is the Administrator of the IBS Message Boards. She is the author of Eating for IBS and The First Year: IBS, and the CEO of Heather's Tummy Care. Join her IBS Newsletter. Meet Heather on Facebook!
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I don't think mushrooms have much IF but maybe it depends on the type of mushroom. They are too soft to be high in IF. But most foods have both and most people are fine with that.
Another thing is that right now people want to hear about whole grains and fiber since that is the food trend. So IF will be played up. I hate those commercials for metamucil that make people think broccoli or hay goes into their fiber pills when really it is SF in fiber supplements! Another stupid thing is that people hear fiber is good for cholesterol and soluble fiber is mentioned but the fiber part seems to be stressed not the soluble part, so people in general have no concept of two kinds of fiber or what are sources of SF and IF. And they continue to think they have to eat roughage to be healthy.
About quinoa, I haven't tried it yet, but I have had wheat berries which Heather had in her book but later came to learn were more IF than SF. They are fine for me and I love them but it shows that tests and charts are not always reliable. They contradict each other and it is best to use the mushy rule as Heather says or just see what works for you.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Mushroom are high in water content (60-90%) making them soft which may lead one to believe they are high in SF. However, the measurements of the IF and SF content shows otherwise.
Table 3 in "Commercial mushrooms: nutritional quality and effect of cooking", Food Chemistry, Volume 84, Issue 2 , February 2004, Pages 201-206 gives the SF, IF and total fibre content for a variety of mushrooms (Boletus group, Agrocybe aegerita and Pleurotus eryngii). The total dietary fibre ranged from 2.6 - 9 grams per 100 grams and between 77% and 90% of the total fibre was IF.
In the article "Physiological differences of soluble and insoluble dietary fibre fractions of brown algae and mushrooms in pepsin activity in vitro and protein digestibility" Asia Pacific J Clin Nutr (1995) 4: 251-255
http://www.healthyeatingclub.com/APJCN/Volume4/vol4.2/horie.htm
The authors tested Shiitake, Hiratake and Yanagimatsutake mushrooms and they make the following statements that clear show that IF is much higher than SF.
"The seaweeds showed high values of soluble dietary fibre, 40-60% on dry matter basis, while the mushrooms showed high values of insoluble dietary fibre, more than 90%."
[ASIDE: it looks like seaweed should be on the safe list]
"However, since mushroom consumption by the Japanese is estimated to be about 10g per capita per day in 1991 the dietary fibre content would be about 0.18g for soluble fibre and 2.82g for insoluble fibre."
The values measured in these papers are in agreement with the values in the Feneli food database which shows that 100 grams of mushrooms contain 2.3 grams of fibre of which 2.2 grams or 95% is IF.
http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=3240&lang=en
The best test is the taste test. If mushrooms are a problem avoid them.  If mushrooms do not give you problems then enjoy them.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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