I don't understand one thing...
#238132 - 01/12/06 07:52 PM
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I've been diagnosed with IBS for a while now, but there is one thing I don't understand, that doesn't seem to be an issue with anybody else:
While most people seem to have an episode after they eat something in particular, I don't seem to have that. After about 1 hour is up, my pain will start to grow in the lower middle pelvis region, until it's gets bad enough where I need to use the restroom during a total course of two hours. The thing is, this happens to me EVERY SINGLE two hours. Now, I am having C and no D (I'm having rabbit pellets), but could C with that type of stool give you a pain that grows every couple of hours, until you release it in the bathroom?
I do have the other symptoms, like lots of stringy, wormy mucus that comes out of me... oh and I always assumed that in the middle lower pelvis region, thats where your small intestines where. (Which is where the pain is). Stranger still, when I had my upper Endoscopy done, the only problem they did find was some aggitation in my small intestine, which I think is kind of wierd because I thought IBS hurts people in the large intestinal track. (Sigh), well I'm kind of confused at the whole thing, so maybe somebody could clarify for me if this does still sound like a logical IBS issue, or if I've blew my mind yet.
Thanks again,
Chris 
(I'm sorry about posting this in the eating boards, but I can't find any other board..)
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Hello,
IBS is not contained to the large intestine, and symptoms can be very different for different people. Irritable Bowel Symdrome is a catch-all phrase that the medical community uses and diagnose people with after all tests are done to rule out other illnesses like Chron's Disease, etc. If they can't classify it as a known disease they call it IBS because they really don't know what is wrong except that something is wrong with the GI tract and people complain about various pains, and cramps in the abdominal region, D, or C, or both, with mucus, etc.
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Okay, thank you Gracie for your information. I'm just worried that because my symptoms seem different from the majority's experience that I could have something worse...
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Btw, this is the right forum for all general IBS queries as well as EFI ones.
Pain that is relieved by a BM is classic textbook IBS. A SFS should help the cramps and rabbit BMs.
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I swear that I can often feel the bm move from my sigmoid just before I poo. It is a strange non-menstrual cramp that "waves" through that area and then I need to go.
Between infertility issues and IBS I have become so in tune with my body sometimes I think the only think I can't feel is the blood coursing through my veins! 
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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I just find it bizzare that nobody that has IBS can tell me why I would be getting pain exactly every hour 1/2 to two hours. Everytime I do go as a result of this, I do either have a movement or mucus. But can the digestive system get so messed up that I would go every hour or so like this? Or let me ask it this way: If I were eating IBS aggitation foods during the week, could those particular foods (dairy,meat,etc) really cause someone to go every single two hours with high C?
I would just sleep so much better knowing if this is even normal, but nobody on any boards can tell me... 
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Here's what I think you're saying:
You wake up. You feel okay. After an hour your midsection starts to hurt. After an hour of increasing pain, you have a bowel movement. You feel okay for an hour. Then your midsection starts to hurt again. After an hour of increasing pain, you have a bowel movement. You feel okay for an hour. Then your midsection starts to hurt again. And so on.
This happens to you all day, every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, regardless of what you eat or when you eat or anything else you do.
Is this correct? If so, does this continue throughout the night or does it stop once you go to sleep?
If this is not an accurate understanding of what happens to you, could you please clarify?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~letsrow/smily3481.gif">Bevvy
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Yes, you are right on. I apologize for my lack of detail, but I was typing this at work with not a lot of time. During the night, I usually wake up between my 8 hours of sleep (so only about once) to use the restroom. It's not the feeling of something like (oh I need to pee) either, its the same feeling of fullness and needing to get the movement out and mucus.
I know I've written on the boards a lot about this, but I'm just trying to understand what is happening. As you said, my body starts to need the restroom after over an hour, where i'll usually be able to do something. i am still having C issues, and I wanted to know for certain if that is giving me pain every hour.
I wanted to also mention, when I first knew something was wrong with me, it never got this bad. I was going between normal movements and C, but it had no schedule that I could see, and wasn't as frequent. Then at the end of last year and this year, my body just started doing this after every hour or so. I can't just forget about it either, because it will hurt enough where I have to expel something. If this doesn't help, I will try to be more detailed.
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Linz I also have another question. After reading about controling IBS through eating habits, reading Heather's book on combinations of foods... so if someone wanted a sure fire way to see if the pain they had in the gut was in fact caused by a food reaction, couldn't you technically eat only oatmeal for seven days (a week), and it should go away? I realize you also need the other fiber in small doses to live, and greens, vegetables etc to be healthy, but for one week shouldn't that prove something to someone who has bad C with IBS?
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If you are on an every two hour schedule throughout the day, that sounds a little weird to me. It's possible that your lower GI tract has somehow gotten into that pattern of spasming, but I just don't know. If you haven't had the full range of tests that Heather recommends, I'd do so.
Also - and this is way out in left field, so don't freak - when you see your GI, ask about parasite testing. Stuck somewhere in the back of my brain is the thought that cyclic, frequent BMs can result from parasites. I can't remember where I read this - or even if I just made it up - but do double-check.
I'm not even sure I'd classify you as C at this point. If you're having some type of BM every couple of hours, you may be having "rabbit pellet" ones simply because your colon can never build up any kind of mass. (Okay, icky visual. Sorry.) It's sort of like if you pee, then you try to pee again 15 minutes later. There simply isn't very much in there.
What are you doing in terms of Heather's diet and an SFS?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I did have some type of parasite testing done, but nothing came of it. They told me it came back normal (this was July 2005 I think). Let me run down what has happened to me again:
December 2003: I started having constipation issues. I don't remember having it on a timed allotment, or having mucus problems. It did get bad enough where I had a Berium Enema done in January. After this took place I was completely fine.
November - December 2004: I started having the problems again. My doctor recommended me different types of bran cereal. I tried this for a couple weeks, and it didn't help.
Febuary 2005: My symptoms started getting worse. My pain was at least once a day now, and I was recommended to go the gasterolgist. He was (and is) not a very nice man, who didn't seem to care about how I felt. Though I will give him credit that he went through with these procedures:
March 2005 - September 2005: procedures as follows:
1. Celiac testing (blood)
2. Parasite testing (a few samples of something)
3. Lots of Metemucil caplets, then I tried powder
4. Colonoscopy
5. Endoscopy
The only thing found out of any of this, was that I have some kind of aggitation in my small intestines. During the course of those months my intestines were generating more mucus and my C was back. I started to notice the painful pain in the lower pelvis region in middle (intestines I believe).
During last year I found Heather's website, bought her Eating for IBS book, and bought some Arcania powder. I tried the Arcania powder for two weeks on the lowest dose, while my eating habits (no dairy, meat, etc) I only tried for seven days each. (I was told by my doctor that would be enough).
One thing I found odd, is that in November 2005 (I think in the middle of the month), I had two full weeks of no pain! It was like I was 17-18 again and felt regular! (I'm 20 now :P). This puzzles me because when I felt fine during the two weeks, I don't remember stopping any foods I had been eating, and I don't remember taking metemucil, arcania or probiotics at the time. I don't know if these finally kicked in or something else happened... but I couldn't believe that the dang pain that hurts me every two hours left. Then of course it came back after the two weeks.
Anyway I hope this helped, and I'm sorry it's kind of everywhere for a summary. Thanks again!
Edited by tama_chan (01/27/06 10:02 PM)
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Do you think it could be food allergies? Sometimes these allergies just happen and then irritate your intestines. I used to drink tons of milk and ate lots of cheese, then about 7 year ago BAM! I couldn't tollerate it anymore and have been lactose intollertant since. Maybe with you it could be a differernt type of food that is causing this??
From you post just above I don't think you're giving the diet or the acacia enough time to work. Two weeks is not enough time, you need to give it months, especially with the acacia and you being a C. Other C's on this board and Heather herself has said C's take longer to stablize.
That's just my 2 cents, but perhaps other people who have been through the diet and acacia use longer can give you their opinion.
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Yea, maybe your right. It's true that I haven't tried any of the diets longer then the usual seven days. On part because my gasterologist kept telling me it should work by then (for whatever I'm trying), and because it doesn't with in that time so I get worried/scared and I give up.
If you (and everyone) does think that spasms like this could most likely be the cause of dairy, or some kind of allergy then I will try it again for a longer time. But for someone who digests something that you have a food allergy to everyday, can it get that bad where you would have painful bouts in the low-middle gut? I just haven't heard anything like that from people... with say lactose intolerance. But maybe I'm mistaken and IBS is on a different level then that when combined with an allergy to the gut.
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It does sound like IBS although with a little different twist to it really. Also if your actually going everyday, then that is not really c, but you may actually be an alternator.
"Classic IBS" is a disorder of the large intestines, however functional GI disorders can effect aywhere along the the gi tract.
You have had the tests done it seems.
Although symptoms an hour after eating could possible be SIBO. They can test for that, but even then it sounds like IBS and maybe something else going on as well possibly.
What do you do for the pain and what relives it? Does heat relieve it?
I think you pretty much mentioned pain doesn't wake you at night. This correct?
Also do you get heartburn at all?
A common functional gi disorder seen along with a lot of IBSers is functional dyspepsia. This condition like IBS is an upper gi disorder with altered motility, viceral sensation and brain gut axis dysfunction. Basically IBS in the upper gi.
Also you should be drinking more water and find out what Heather says about a fiber that might keep water in the bowels.
The mucus is harmless and nothing to worry about, the bowel sheds cells and in IBS they shed more basically.
Parasites almost always cause d, so you know.
a couple more questions, do you have
"Other symptoms that are not essential but support the diagnosis of IBS:
Abnormal stool frequency (greater than 3 bowel movements/day or less than 3 bowel movements/week);
Abnormal stool form (lumpy/hard or loose/watery stool);
Abnormal stool passage (straining, urgency, or feeling of incomplete evacuation);
Passage of mucus;
Bloating or feeling of abdominal distension."
These symptoms support an IBS diagnoses, but are not part of the criteria.
Last what helps you out the most, any treatments that you do or have done help at all?
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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com
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PS
As Sand mentioned here.
"It's possible that your lower GI tract has somehow gotten into that pattern of spasming,"
This is a possiblity, the bowel can be trained basically.
It might help to switch somethings around and see what happens.
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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com
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Been there, done that. I too needed to go every couple of hours. I found that I could also "go on demand". Tons of fun! 
Within a couple of days of paying attention to what Heather and the other ladies here were trying to tell me I was feeling infinitely better. This coming from a guy that was convinced that his doctor was going to tell him that some fatal disease had been discovered. If you follow the advice found here I'm pretty sure you're life will start to change for the better. Good luck!
P.S. I would me remiss if I didn't add that you should go down every trail and follow every lead for some other cause for your pain. Fifteen years ago I had a blood clot that was causing the same sort of pain. In fact, if I had suffered from IBS back then I may have been too late in diagnosing the clot. They eventually took out a chunk of intenstine, solving the problem. So look for other possible causes but start eating for IBS immediately just in case. Good luck! 
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Sometimes I walk backwards to see where I have been!
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Except for the fact that you're on some kind of clockwork 2-hour schedule, nothing else you've talked about seems out of line for IBS. I kind of looked back through your old posts and here's what I think.
It sounds like you're still not entirely convinced that IBS is what you have. This may be just standard IBS-denial: I spent a fair amount of time insisting that I must have something else, something "fixable". On the other hand, without getting too woo-woo mystical, I do believe people often know what's going on in their own bodies, so if you truly believe there's something else wrong, keep looking. Here's what I suggest:
First, find a GI guy you're more comfortable with. Sometimes believing your diagnosis really means believing your GI has actually paid attention to you. You don't say where you are, but you can check the good doctors thread and see if it lists anyone near you. If not, post and ask if anyone knows of someone where you are. You shouldn't have to repeat the tests you've already had, but it should be reassuring to have them looked at by a doctor you feel more comfortable with. (If nothing else, I'd want a fuller explanation of "some kind of agitation in my small intestines".)
Second, more tests/possibilities. There are some old possibilities left hanging in your previous posts: hernia; cecliac and/or gluten intolerance; prostate problems. I also don't see anything about looking at your thyroid. I know you're young and male, but if we're going to look everywhere, then we have to look there. It's possible your doctors checked it, but the fact you're young and male may mean they didn't. As for parasites, Quest Labs say you need three separate specimens to rule them out completely, although ShawnEric's comments about them usually causing D would cause them to slip down the possibility list.
If you want to wander further off the beaten path, you can do a Board Search for "Great Smokies" (don't use the quotes); also Search for "Great Smoky" (again, don't use the quotes). They will do all kinds of testing for all kinds of things. I've never used them, but if I hadn't gotten relief from Heather's diet, they were one of the "next up" approaches for me. Read all the posts, though, to get a feel for how useful people have found them. I would use the Great Smokies approach after finding a better doctor and seeing what he has to say.
Third - and do this now, don't wait until you find a better doctor or get more tests - use Heather's approach fully for an extended period of time. Go back through your old posts and you'll find one where I posted about this and so did LittleMinnie. I think the advice there is still valid. And definitely take an SFS - since you already have Acacia, give that a serious try. Start at a very low dose - I started at 1/4 teaspoon per day - and work your way up slowly - I went up by 1/4 teaspoon per day every 3 days. Make sure you're getting lots of fluid.
If you haven't already, get a copy of Heather's book "The First Year - IBS". Your library may have it or you can buy it from this Website or from Barnes and Noble or Amazon. If you have questions about how to do the diet, ask. Also, read Heather's newsletters from Summer 2005 about constipation - there were two issues devoted to the frustrations of constipation.
You'll need to commit to Heather's approach for a reasonable amount of time - I think 3 months is minimum, 6 months is better. Yes, that seems like a long time, but look at it this way: if you'd started doing this when you first started posting, you'd be past the 6 month mark already. It will go by quickly. I have no idea why anyone would tell you that a week on any type of diet would be enough of a try, especially for constipation.
Fourth, think about adding a probiotic and/or digestive enzyme. Dig back through the Boards and look for posts by bamagirl and AstroChick. I don't remember exactly what they're doing, but I'm pretty sure at least one of them is taking either a probiotic or enzyme or both. Or just do a couple of Searches for probiotics and digestive enzymes and see what people have to say.
I hope some of this helps. Take care.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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And how do you test for it? And how do you treat it? Is this something other than IBS?
Thanks
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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It is perfectly fine for most people -- but for some of us it causes real problems. In very small amounts I might be able to get away with oatmeal (like the amount of oats used in a recipe for a bread) - but a bowl of it gives me horrible gas & bloating. If I ate nothing but oatmeal I would probably get a full-fledged attack. For someone else who is also sensitive -- it would not be a good way to rule out anything. Oatmeal is both Soluble and Insoluble or something like that. Someone with more know how should help me out here.
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Re: What is SIBO?
#242306 - 01/28/06 08:55 AM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth. You can do a Search (small bacteria) on all Boards. It's in the Research Library and on the Diet Board. Remember BadlyDrawnBoy - he was treated for this, you can check out what he said.
This is different from IBS. Supposedly there are breath tests to test for it - I don't know how reliable they are. I thought you treated it with antibiotics to kill off the bad, then probiotics to replace the good, but there was a post on this in the Chron's Board and I gather there's now some difference of opinion - I don't totally understand it. What I got out of the little I read was that some doctors treat with antibiotics, then probiotics; some doctors treat just with antibiotics; some doctors treat just with probiotics. Sorry - I'm a little vague on this.
If I remember correctly the initial study linking IBS to SIBO was pretty flawed, but I remember reading recently on the Diet Board that there's at least one new study that looks more solid. I think this is the same thread where I posted about bifantis and, again, I think the study is in the Research Library.
HTH.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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SIBO information.
http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intestinal_bacterial_overgrowth/article.htm
This is a controversial subject at the moment in IBS research.
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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com
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Thanks Sand, I really appreciate your time that you gave me to reply with such a lenghty post. I also want to comment on something I forgot to mention:
Exercise. I tend to be pretty active at work, but I know it's not enough to relieve or help IBS symptoms apparently. I love to run, jump rope, and do yoga/tai chi, but haven't been for sometime when IBS got really bad. When I started up again, and am doing it on a regular bases (or trying to right now), sometimes when I do a vigorous exercise or a soothing one, I will immediately need to use the restroom after a bit. Now I'm concerned because when I do need to use the bathroom after specifically exercising, my movements are very sludgy. They are not really D, but are very sludge looking. Is this a good thing that my body is trying to tell me? I do feel relief after getting some of it out, but it just builds up again after that amount of time when I'm out exercising.
Oh and Sand I did forget to mention that while my mother does have a Thyroid problem, I looked into that personally by asking my regular doctor for a check on that. It came back fine. I currently live in Western MA, and I'm not sure of any other gut specialist doctors around here in Greenfield, but I am more then willing to see another if I can find one that will listen to me. I know I probably sound like I complain a lot on here, but I constantly feel there is no hope for me. Everyone is having a good time turning into an adult with my close friends, but turning the age of 20 for me has left with me with just misery. But I know everyone else with this problem probably has it much worse then me, so I don't want to complain. Anyway thank you again Sand, and everyone else.
Edited by tama_chan (01/29/06 12:20 AM)
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Thanks Ksh for the feedback for oatmeal! I will take that into account.
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but maybe someone else can help you out.
I'm glad some of my other advice seems helpful. Good move getting your thyroid checked. The other thing that popped into my head is getting your gall bladder checked.
As for finding another doctor, remember you can go east to Boston or west to Albany (if my geography serves me correctly). Presumably you can go north or south, too, but we're now way past the limits of my geography. I know it's unpleasant to travel out of a comfort zone, but it might be worth a trip or two to make sure what you've got is IBS. If there are no doctors that work for you in the good docs thread, I suggest you do a new post asking specifically for a doctor recommendation in your area and saying how far you're willing to travel - that kind of request can get buried in a thread like this.
IBS is tough, but you've got stuff to try to make it better. Give it some time, effort, and dedication.
Take care. I hope you start feeling better soon.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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In regards to the exercise thing, I've heard that exercise is supposed to stimulate your entire system and improve regularity. Maybe by exercising, your body is just trying to eliminate more waste b/c it's stimulated?
I've noticed that sometimes, if I haven't had a BM before I go exercise it's the first thing I do when I'm done. If you exercise consistently, you'll probably find that your symptoms will get better. It has something to do with your colon relaxing with the exercise and it learns to do this even when you're not exercising. Hope that helps!
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What are digestive enzymes anyway? 
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Sometimes I walk backwards to see where I have been!
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