Syl... Rome III Criteria for IBS
#352747 - 11/27/09 06:21 AM
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Windchimes
Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California
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Truthfully, I find this information quite confusing as to clarity or making much sense. I would say that IBS is sometimes not the only condition operating in someone with IBS. These things deserve further exploration if appropriate fiber and balancing soluable and insoluable fiber properly does not help clear the symptoms (in my case, diarrhea), thus IBS-D.
My worst trigger is stress, and I'm fully aware of that. Even so, I'm making permanent changes in my diet. I wasn't absorbing what I was eating and even a multivitamin taken with water or tea raced right through me in an explosion. I went to liquid vitamins that can be absorbed in the mouth if one can tolerate the taste. I can, I just follow-up with a peppermint candy and then some tea.
My colonscopy was performed in November 2008. I did well, UNTIL the scope was being withdrawn and further air and inspection was being performed. My descending colon began to spasm with a vengence! The IV med was stepped up and I went back into 'twilight zone'.
When the procedure was complete, my gastroenterologist told me that I had spastic colon (IBS), though no tumors nor polyps were found. My colon (according to her) was healthy and very clean. I asked her what I could do about the spasms and the diarrhea, she told me to take OTC Imodium and step up my fiber. Thanks a lot!
There was nothing said about the differences between soluable and insoluable fiber, nor any written information provided. I thank God that I found Heather's books and have learned so much, and am still learning.
I have become to believe that I also have developed a glucose intolerance, and I will be paying attention to this as well.
Now, Syl, can you translate what this Rome III criteria actually means in the diagnosis of IBS? 
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Check Heather's newsletter on Update to the Rome Criteria for Diagnosing IBS - Educate Yourself!
Glucose intolerance is unlikely primarily because glucose is the body's primary energy source. Heather states it this way "For glucose concerns, your body eventually breaks down all carbohydrates (simple and complex, and no matter what the source or how much/which type of fiber they contain) into glucose, as this is the only fuel the brain can use."
Your physician like may others must not have been aware of the American Gastroenterology Task Force report An Evidence-Based Systematic Review on the Management of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. It says in Section 2.7 on the effectiveness of dietary fiber, bulking agents, and laxatives in the management of irritable bowel syndrome that "Psyllium hydrophilic mucilloid (ispaghula husk) [soluble fiber] is moderately effective and can be given a conditional recommendation (Grade 2C). A single study reported improvement with calcium polycarbophil. Wheat bran or corn bran [insoluble fiber] is no more effective than placebo in the relief of global symptoms of IBS and cannot be recommended for routine use (Grade 2C)." The role of soluble vs insoluble fiber in managing IBS has been known for more than 15 years.
I believe that stress is a big trigger for all of us IBSers but there is little to show it is a cause.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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Thanks, Syl, for your prompt response here. This is helpful.
I will say that stress IS a big trigger for me. Unlike those who run to frig or cupboards when feeling stressed, I am one who has absolutely no appetite at all. If I force myself to eat something solid, I'm in abdominal pain until the food explodes out the other end only partially digested. Yuk!
When feeling stressed, I am better off relaxing, listening to calm instrumental music, praying, meditating, and taking in liquids only... these days that being peppermint tea and hot chicken broth with some fresh ginger in it. I have found this works well for me until the crisis is over, and then I can eat again absent the physical miseries.
Thanks again for the further info. 
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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I realize that stress is not the cause of IBS, but is a definite trigger for many with this condition like many other known medical conditions.
This makes we wonder if adrenaline plays a role in gut responses, a trigger for symptoms? When we feel stressed, we do experience adrenaline surges. Some people feel heart palpitations, others like myself dash to the bathroom and have problems digesting food completely.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine) along with a variety of neurotransmitters and hormones play a role in the gut response. Under stress adrenaline along with a cascade of may other bioactive compounds in the body definitely affect the GI tract. Even non-IBSers experience GI discomfort under stress. The 'fight-or-flight' response exacerbates IBSers more likely because of altered GI motility and sensation.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
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Trigger? Cause? Same darn thing to me. I know what CAUSED (child sexual abuse) my IBS, you can call it what you like. Know what I mean. I know you do. We are on the same page here.  Cause and effect. Simple.
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A cause is the event that produced IBS in the first place.
A trigger is something that exacerbates or sets off a cascade of biological events that results in IBS symptoms. For example, caffeine and high fat are IBS triggers not causes of IBS.
It is very difficult to establish a causal relationship. It is relatively easy comparatively speaking to establish a trigger.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
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The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Sorry, I disagree totally. I know that the trauma CAUSED my IBS. I know that for a fact, without a shadow of a doubt. Pre-trauma, perfectly normal child. Post-trauma, IBS immediately following incident. So, don't tell me I don't know what caused this because I DO! Sorry, but I am tired of hearing there is no darn cause, when I know darn well there is, and I know what caused mine.
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Gerikat... What I have come to realize in my own life path is that anytime something stressful tugs on that same part of my brain that experienced a prior stressor, my intestines react. The cause seemingly started this (internalization, imploding... whatever the 'experts' call it!), but the end result is the very same!!!
I fortunately was never sexually abused, though my father was an alcoholic and dinnertime was always a stressful time for me. He physically abused my mother, and when mad at the dinner table would even go so far as to throw food against the wall and break dishes. I can see that my IBS started around age 5, and thus the reason why I cannot tolerate food when I feel stressed, just like I did back then as a child.
The cause and effect are to me OBVIOUSLY linked! Thank you for your input.
My very best to you and others in controlling the stress in their personal lives today as much as possible, and learning how to eat things that do not offend the original damage.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Syl, My dentist cannot even inject me with epinephrine when working on my teeth. I immediately get heart palpitations and start to shake! Feeling that way (out of physical control) makes things even worse. He now uses an alternative pain killer that does not produce the same response in me.
I definitely have a well-documented response to epinephrine that is physiological in nature, though might well be related to the psychological 'flight or fight' response that I had as a child when I would run to my bedroom and lock the door when my father was throwing one of his tantrums. I feared he might break the door down and physically abuse me, just as he did my mother.
I just don't handle adrenaline well at all today, whether it is injected or produced by my own bodily as a response to stress. Such immediately hits me right in the 'gut'. Adrenaline is adrenaline and I don't find such favorable to my end symptoms.
Thanks for the post.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Thanks so much Windchimes for understanding where I am coming from. To me, I can only understand cause and effect. It has always been the "why" ?? something happens. That is why I searched out alternative means, because I felt Western medicine just treated the effects/symptoms. They never got to the root or cause. I cannot wrap my brain around any other reasoning.
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Gerikat,
There is so much stored in our subconscious minds, and the older we get, the more so! Physical reactions are reactions even if not stemming from our conscious mind, our guts will react. I believe this to be a fact. I really don't care what the so-called 'experts' say, I KNOW 'experientially', and so do YOU!
Take care and have a good day!
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Gerikat - I am not tell you what did or did not cause your IBS. I am only say that there is no evidence in the IBS research literature that abuse is anything more than a participating factor in individuals with a likely predisposition.
Hopefully you will find away to manage your symptoms and live a full and happy life
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Sorry Syl, my "evidence" is my life. I don't need the scientific literature to back up anything for me. I speak of the abuse not because I love sharing it, but because it may help someone else. I don't hide it. If you notice in my bio, I state motivational speaker. I speak to groups in my area regarding abuse, and my experiences following the abuse, including IBS. I speak to alot of kids.
The abuse was the cause of my IBS, period, end of story.
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Thank you, sweetie. That is why I so connected to, "The Divided Mind", and I am now so engrossed in, "Evolve Your Brain", by Joe Dispenza. I love reading this stuff.
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Syl... I have come to believe that much of the family 'predispositions' come from the dysfunctions that is prevalent in dysfunctional families. These things are induced not necessarily by biological physical makeup, but rather the same dysfunctional behaviors repeated from generation to generation which ends up creating the same subconscious tendency toward the same symptoms and repeated physical (medical) conditions.
The bible says "The sins of the fathers will be passed onto the sons"... and this applies to daughters as well. These are injuries to the chore 'soul' of a person, and more often stored in the subconscious mind.
This is just my take on this... take it or leave it. I know what I know about my own body and scientific knowledge through clinical studies rarely considers the psychosomatic contributions to many familial illnesses and conditions.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Reading...
#352768 - 11/27/09 10:39 AM
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Windchimes
Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California
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I've also been reading 'The Divided Mind', learning a lot and a lot to digest. I'm about half way through it now. I also ordered a used copy of 'Evolve Your Brain' and that one is next on my list of reading material.
VERY INTERESTING!!! Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm ready to get on with life, regardless of what the 'EXPERTS' say in all of their clinical studies which do absolutely nothing for me in the end. I love Heather's products, they work well for me when I can get them into me. Some days I feel like a limp rag reading on my bed and running back and forth to the toilet.
I definitely need to get a frig for my downstairs area where I live in the winter months (easily heated) and then I would do much better at keeping with the 'program'. Even so, I am improving simply by reading the present book and listening to soft instrumental music.
Take care and keep in touch... 
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Twin studies have shown evidence of a genetic component to IBS that runs in families. Several candidate genes have been proposed, but no definitive associations have been established. The family 'predispositions' maybe genetic and passed on from generation to generation that way instead of dysfunctional behavior. Also, many people experience abuse and family dysfunction and they never develop IBS. Go figure
There are dozens of IBS clinical studies that look at psychological components of IBS. Unfortunately, have not illuminate the cause of IBS and it unlikely they will because they use crude measures and techniques. Oh - well - time will eventual tell us what is going in.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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The abuse was the cause of your IBS but have you gotten the symptoms under control?
Triggers are those things that send you out of control again.
They can be food or stressors in our lives.
Not the stress that you live with from being abused,that's everyday but the stress that you experience when the bills need to be paid or someone pisses you off.
I too was abused as a child by more than one person,I dealt with that over the years and can put it behind me but looking back I realize I have dealt with IBS for many more years than I thought.
My symptoms flare when I become stressed out ie parents divorce,fighting with in laws,birth of children ,emergency surgery etc..
but I also have food triggers.
when not stressed out I can usually eat anything with the exception of a few foods.
There is a difference in triggers and causes I think.
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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Is this like families who tend to have alot of mentally ill people?
some families seem to have many members that have "nervous" disorders.
I know my whole family has stomach issues.Whether it be a tendency to C or D.We also have a lot of anxiety that I think causes our stomach/bowel issues.
My brothers and I all went through some of the same stresses and genetically we are made up of pretty much the same stuff so logically speaking doesn't that mean that it is likely we will react the same way physically?
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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It is a believed there is a genetic component to a variety of mental disorders such as anxiety, depression and schizophrenia.
Everyone's genetic make up is 99.9% the same. It is the 0.1% difference that produces the problems It possible but not necessary that you brother may have similar physical reactions. On the other hand he may not experience any GI symptoms at all.
While anxiety may be occur frequently with GI issues there is no evidence that it is the cause. It could be possible that both have similar underlying causes.
It is all very complicated and not really worth the effort looking for a cause. It is really worth the effort to seek out good IBS symptom management approaches.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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No, IBS is not a 'mental illness' per se. It is a 'brain-gut' reaction to earlier family (or outside) dysfunctions and stressors.
Mental illnesses are an actual disease of the brain, though it's possible even those came from family dysfunction in origin as opposed to actual genetic pre-disposition.
I really don't have all of the answers, though I'm getting the 'gist' of it all from Dr. Sarno's book 'The Divided Mind'. So much of our lives are run by the subconscious past experiences, and there is not as much available to us in the conscious mind even if we have a good memory.
I wish I could offer you more, but at this time I really can't. It's simply my take based on my own experience(s) and what I am presently reading.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Quote:
It is all very complicated and not really worth the effort looking for a cause. It is really worth the effort to seek out good IBS symptom management approaches.
While generally I do agree with you on this.You could search forever and never know what caused your IBS where others can clearly state yes this is when it started.
I do think though that we need to understand what triggers or sets our IBS off.
If we can't figure that out or at least try to figure out,then we will always be battling our symptoms regardless of what we do or don't eat.
Its like the criminal that gets out of jail and goes back to the old neighbourhood.He is most likely to be a repeat offender.Put into a new situation things may turn out differently.
with IBS if we continually make the same mistakes,our IBS will control our lives don't you think?
IMHO
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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I agree - finding and removing dietary and environmental triggers is the best management approach. This requires a fair amount of discipline to be successful or else IBS will run your life.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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While it might be true that we do not need to know every precise trauma that contributed to our reactions to stress and some foods.
I'm going to use a metaphor here.
What if certain foods were served at a dinner that ended up traumatic and violent? Do we notice that when we eat these foods cooked the same way, we get knots in our stomach and symptoms of IBS? Yes, this could be an unconscious reaction to an earlier trauma, plain and simple.
Our past can benefit from healing forgiveness to the offender. In addition, we can learn to cook differently and not like Mama used to cook the same foods. We can take Heather's acacia powder and peppermint tea to help control the reactions physically that are warring with our subconscious mind that has stored things of the past around many things, some unpleasant.
I believe IBS to be psychosomatic in nature, and also believe it can be controlled with some dietary changes and food choices, as well as ways of preparing them. I don't use my mother's old recipe box any more, as I can see that they are not only high in fat they bring subconscious reactions to things I didn't remember before into my conscious mind readily, after attacking my gut. Yet when I really think about it I actually CAN bring things into my conscious so that they can heal and not haunt me today in my gut.
Education brings personal power over the quality of one's life!
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Hmmm - not sure IBS is a 'brain-gut' reaction to earlier family (or outside) dysfunctions and stressors.
It might be more accurate to say that IBS, except IBS subtype PI-IBS, is a 'brain-gut' disorder with unknown origins that may be precipitate or exacerbated by family (or outside) dysfunction and stressors. The physical origin of PI-IBS (post infectious IBS) is known to be a bacterial GI infection that affects the 'brain-gut' communication in an unknown manner.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Edited by Syl (11/27/09 12:44 PM)
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Syl,
With all due respect here, my origins of my condition are KNOWN! I have so much improved once I acknowledged these, forgave, and went on doing what I personally need to do to make necessary changes in my life. This also included preparing food differently and using Healther's products that are good for people even if they do not have IBS.
We do not have to agree, we can simply agree to disagree.
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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff
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Yeah, it's useless to banter back and forth. We know what we know to be true to our lives, and no one can understand your own personal journey. I refuse to give research too much attention. My life is my research. Some tend to bury their traumas, I chose to use mine.
"Evolve Your Brain" is a huge book. I may have to renew it from the library. I love to read on the brain, the sub-conscious, etc.
Yes, I agree with you about the experts. They haven't been of much help to me.
Stay warm! It's rather chilly here today, too.
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