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The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes
      #351466 - 11/01/09 09:39 PM
PMartin

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 140
Loc: Niagara Region

I think there are a few of us currently reading THE DIVIDED MIND by John E. Sarno M.D. (or perhaps you've read something dealing with the same subject matter) which explores what he calls Mindbody disorders and the relationship between the conscious and unconscious minds. While I don't expect anyone to divulge personal details, I'm just very curious to hear if anyone out there has actually cured/solved/stabilized etc. their IBS by uncovering a psychological cause? I, like most people I'm sure can recall some regretful occurrences in my life like not making my grade 8 basketball team, being dumped by the first girl I ever loved or being fired for the first time and so on but these are all rather low key compared to what I know some other people have endured and life went on. I can't imagine any of these things being the cause of my IBS.


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IBS-D. Or so a doctor says.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351490 - 11/02/09 10:02 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


PMartin, I have just started the book and it is a BIG book with alot of technical info, so once I get through it, maybe everyone who is reading it, can have a discussion. For now, I will tell you that it was trauma (sexual abuse as a child) that triggered mine.

Everyone perceives stressors, big or small, differently. I don't think it has to be this "huge" thing in you life.

But this is all a conversation for after I finish the book.

Also, this may be the wrong board for a discussion about the book. This board seems to be more for Mike Mahoney's hypno CD's. I don't know what board would be more appropriate.

Geri

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351496 - 11/02/09 11:21 AM
PMartin

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 140
Loc: Niagara Region

Thanks Geri...and you're right...I wasn't sure where to post this one so that's why you see in THE LIVING ROOM too.

I know it must be hard to talk about such personal matters so I thank you very much for replying. It is a big book and I've only scratched the surface but I can't put it down...it's a great read.

I look forward to talking about it.

Patrick

--------------------
IBS-D. Or so a doctor says.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351500 - 11/02/09 01:50 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


You're welcome Patrick! It isn't so hard anymore. I have processed and am working on dealing with it.

The book is fantastic. It opens up many,many more questions for me. As I said, I read one of his other books and have respect for his writing and perspective.

I, too, look forward to talking about it.

Geri

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351531 - 11/03/09 07:39 AM
BarbieNJ

Reged: 10/19/09
Posts: 30
Loc: New Jersey

I am reading a book by John Sarno right now also, thanks to this forum and recommending it I'd be interested in hearing if the approach has helped anyone here too!!!

I believe what he thinks could most certainly help our bodies. No one likes to deal with feelings that make them angry or upset so we absorb them within. Learning how to process these thoughts can't hurt!! I can directly relate my IBS issues to when my father left my mother when I was 17 almost 18.....all those feelings manifested themselves and left me where I am today....IBS/FMS sufferer. Just a domino effect from that day on. I just thought it was coincidental....maybe not.

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IBS-C Sufferer since I was 18 and a FMS sufferer also!! Not feeling well enough to shop...Visit my online website!! www.youravon.com/bwethman

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351562 - 11/03/09 12:52 PM
Marilyn

Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 1372


Medical science certainly has confirmed that there is a mind-body connection that is just a part of the human condition. Simply put, outside factors, the way we think, etc. all has an effect on our bodies - even in simple everyday ways - see a lemon, your mouth waters, facing making a speech in front of many people, you get butterflies - and that is blown into greater aspects with IBS folks.

I will be posting Michael Mahoney's interview which touches on the mind-gut connection - and he mentions dominoes of thought - just as you mention.

While we cannot always pinpoint a "cause" for IBS linked to psychological issues, we know that these issues can effect the way we feel.

We can become aware of these thought processes on a conscious level, which can be helpful for many people - to break a line of thinking - but for IBS symptoms, it has been researched that hypnotherapy and guided imagery can get to the subconscious level - and perhaps tap into issues we are not even aware of - not that these issues come to light on a thinking level, but negative and destructive thought processes can be replaced with hopeful and positive thoughts, which then can lead to symptom reduction.

Heather will be reviewing this thread for appropriateness; and while the topic is related to hypnotherapy in regard to mind-body connection, she has the final call.

For those of you discussing this book and method, you may want to further look into the information on this forum, as it has been shown to be extremely helpful and successful to the vast majority of folks who use it.

All the best - take care.



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My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351568 - 11/03/09 01:06 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Hi Marilyn,

I had suggested earlier to PMartin that this may not be the right area. PMartin also posted to the Living Room which might be more appropriate.

I have Mike's CDs and am currently going through them for the second time. I am finding myself more successful with the second go-round.

There are many folks reading that particular book right now. I will leave it up to Heather if she would prefer us to be in the Living Room.

Thanks! Geri

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #351949 - 11/10/09 05:43 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


I've read the first three chapters and this book seriously speaks to me! I'm dying to discuss it. So much of what Dr. Sarno says makes sense for me personally - especially the symptom imperative. It also makes me think about the people in my life, like my husband and brother, both 'nice guys'. I wonder how much of their ailments are related to psychosomatic causes as well. This book brings to light an understanding of chronic illness and pain that is absolutely ignored by medical and psychiatric doctors. I want everyone I know to read it. Thoughts so far from those who are reading it?

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352013 - 11/11/09 02:02 PM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I am partway through The Divided Mind, finding it fascinating, encouraging and stimulating lots of thought, writing, research, and self-exploration.

A question: Sarno initially developped his theory to apply to back pain and it seemed to involve the brain depriving the area of oxygen. Then he extended his theory to cover other kinds of pain - "TMS" - but I'm unclear whether it's still based on the idea that the site of pain, i.e. in our case the GI tract, is being deprived of oxygen.

Also, I wrote to Sarno to ask what kind of psychological therapy would be of assistance for IBS. He replied rather tersely, but I received a longer response from his assistant:

"The type of psychotherapist you will need to find in Toronto should be analytically trained. That is the key word "analytically". Should you find such a person Dr. Sarno suggests that you share the book with that therapist and see if he/she agrees with his concepts. When we say "no physicians trained in Canada" is not misleading - it means that no M.D. from Canada has come to New York and trained with Dr. Sarno in the diagnosis and treatment of TMS. All the physicians we recommend to patients living in the US have all come to NY and trained with Dr. Sarno. If you know of a physician in Canada who would be willing to come to New York and train with Dr. Sarno he/she can call Dr. Sarno and speak to him directly.

There is a video/DVD of Dr. Sarno's lecture (2hours) produced by one of Dr. Sarno's patients that is available by calling 800 263-6939."


I also found this website and this handout from Sarno's department at Harvard-Ratcliffe helpful.


--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352015 - 11/11/09 02:31 PM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

Well I haven't seen this book, though would be interested in exploring it. If any of you can provide me with an ISBN number, I certainly would appreciate this.

I've had IBS-D for about 15 years, and am now a senior. My adult children have issues with narcissm, which is yet another avenue of broken mind issues. They were victims of a nasty divorce and custody battle. I kept on working hard at my job and gave them my very best always, making my children my priority in life.

After I went through the California disability system, I all but collapsed. I could no longer work, my children had totally abandoned me as adults, and I developed IBS-D.

Such overall is very unpleasant, particularly for someone like myself who has always been kind to others, a planner, and a loving person. I'm definitely not a perfect person, though I DID give everything my very best always. I definitely am not a Type-A personality, probably was once more like a doormat who met everyone else's needs at the expense of my own.

Now the time has come to focus on myself and take care of my own needs, though I haven't found this quite so easy as a single senior woman living alone with no understanding nor emotional support locally.

--------------------
Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

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Renee new
      #352017 - 11/11/09 03:08 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Thanks for the info. I, too am halfway through and find it very interesting since I fit every single one of the criteria. The strange thing is, I had read one of his books on back pain (which I was having at the time), and part-way through the book the back pain vanished. He states in The Divided Mind that that does happen. Before I had picked up his book on back pain, I had been through a family doctor, physical therapist, and chiropractor. Nothing helped until I read that darn book.

So, when PMartin brought this current book to my attention I certainly was intrigued.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352020 - 11/11/09 03:55 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Renee, I wonder the same thing myself, about the GI tract problems. Can the physiological process be explained in the same way as TMS? I seem to have such a wide variety of symptoms, it's hard to believe they would all be caused by oxygen deprivation, but maybe that starts a chain reaction of malfunction in the gut. I wish he spent more time addressing IBS in his book.

I'm glad you asked about the psychological therapy approach. I am currently seeing a psychologist, but his approach is cognitive behavioral therapy, which is different than analytical, I believe. I suppose I will need to find a therapist outside my HMO if I want a different approach. I'm going to start with the treatment he outlines in the book and continue with my current psychologist for now.

Thanks for the information - I may just order the video of the lecture.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352022 - 11/11/09 04:22 PM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

Cognitive behavioral therapy IS analytical... simple reasoning and re-training the brain's perception of some things that hinder us!

--------------------
Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352028 - 11/11/09 06:27 PM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

CBT and analytical are two different things. This is what my dad said (he's a professor in this area): "Analytically trained means psychoanalytically trained -- a psychoanalyst. The term is quite specific and does not include CBT. Hope this helps."


--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

Edited by renee21 (11/11/09 07:14 PM)

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352030 - 11/11/09 07:07 PM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Here is the ISBN info for The Divided Mind. Healing Back Pain is one of Sarno's earlier books - it's much shorter and easy to read book and is based on his same theory of illness. That book also has a sound recording - here is the ISBN.

I am sorry to hear of your situation. The premise of Sarno's books is that chronic health issues like IBS, back pain, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, migraine, etc. which have no organic cause and do not respond to conventional treatment, are created by our subconscious mind in order to distract our conscious mind from emotional pain that would be too difficult for our conscious mind to deal with. Prior to developing IBS I had an eating disorder, and I find it useful to think of it in the same way: something that keeps you from really dealing with underlying feelings - which might be based on stuff you've buried since childhood, or something that happened yesterday.

Obviously I don't know your situation but it seems like some emotions that might be difficult for your conscious mind could be a sense of abandonment/betrayal/ ingratefulness from your children.

For those of us not in therapy, I think the important first step is, every time we find ourselves thinking about our guts (24/7, if you're like me), focus instead on what else we might be feeling. What else is going on in our life, what other thoughts are running through our mid, and what are the feelings behind them? I am finding dailing journalling down very helpful to see what else is going on besides my bowel issues.


--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

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Re: Renee new
      #352033 - 11/11/09 07:41 PM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

That's great about how it helped your back pain. I am curious as to whether you can trace your IBS to starting/worsening after your IBS cleared up. Sarno talks about how the body can simply "switch" symptoms if the underlying emotions aren't dealt with.

--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

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Re: Renee new
      #352034 - 11/11/09 08:09 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Oh yes. I have the symptom imperative. Since child molestation is part of my past, I am sure that has something to do with it. My IBS started right after the abuse, so no one will make me believe it is anything but related to the buried rage and psychological turmoil. If I am not dealing with anxiety and dizziness, it's some other strange symptom. And the symptoms are transient. He also says that most with Fibromyalgia also have IBS. Go figure. I see that all the time on these boards. I know without a shadow of a doubt the man is right about this.

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Re: Renee new
      #352044 - 11/12/09 07:30 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

The relationship between fibromyalgia and IBS goes the other way too. A study of a random sample of 27,402 people drawn from 97,593 individuals with IBS showed individuals with IBS have a 40% to 80% higher prevalence odds of migraine, fibromyalgia, and depression. Both the brain-gut mechanism and fibromyalgia involve the HPA axis (hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis) which may be responsible for the overlap between these two disorders. It need not be psychological.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Renee new
      #352046 - 11/12/09 07:39 AM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Why couldn't emotional issues trigger dysfunction of the HPA axis - leading to any number of physical issues? Have you read Sarno?


--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

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Re: Renee new
      #352047 - 11/12/09 07:54 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Renee, I really believe in what Sarno has to say. It may be difficult to discuss the book here, because of others who will jump in and poo-poo anything he has to say. Maybe it's best if we discuss it via personal email, or I can get everyone a spot on Chatango.

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Re: Renee new
      #352049 - 11/12/09 07:59 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Yes - I have read some of his work. I found it interesting but an old school way of thinking. This make sense given his age (86?) and the thinking at the time he received his professional training. Generally speaking his talks about the mind-body connection and the known phenomena of somatization particularly as it pertains to back, neck and limb pain. It is along stretch from muscular pain to IBS. The big problem with his research is that is difficult to use clinical trials with psychosomatic illnesses so there is no way to prove or disprove his idea

Psychological stress may trigger HPA dysfunction in those predisposed to it but it is unlikely to be the cause. Also, there is no doubt psychological stress contributes to IBS but there is little if any evidence that it is the cause.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Renee new
      #352050 - 11/12/09 08:00 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


I am sorry Syl, but you just don't get it. I am going to try to move the discussion to another spot, for those that are interested in discussing the book. These boards really aren't the right place.

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Re: Renee new
      #352052 - 11/12/09 08:03 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


There are many things in life that cannot be proven or disproven, seen or unseen. I absolutely believe that trauma CAUSED my IBS, and I think others on this board feel the same. That is why I am going to move the discussion to somewhere else, so that we can discuss it without the naysayers jumping in.

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Re: Renee new
      #352106 - 11/13/09 06:26 PM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

Syl,

Is it possible that you might be confusing psychosomatic symptoms with real gut-brain messages that are actually inaccurate, and hence a physiological response to the body's own temporal mis-communication? I think so!

Such things CAN be caused by past traumas where the subconscious mind buried messages that affect bodily responses and function.

--------------------
Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

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Re: Renee new
      #352109 - 11/13/09 07:09 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Windchimes,

You asked a very interesting question.

Stress and anxiety from trauma, and the mind in general, can affect physiological responses. Hypnotherapy, mediation and a variety of other things illustrate this point.

Research suggests that IBS is caused by a physiological miscommunication in the complex gut-brain signaling processes.

There is physiological evidence illustrating that GI infection can cause 'post infectious IBS' that may or may not correct itself within 5 years. And there is further physiological evidence seen in the effect that the ebb and flow of hormones, composition of the colonic microflora and malabsorption of short chained carbohydrates have on the gut-brain communication processes.

There is no evidence that psychological experiences 'cause' physiological miscommunication producing IBS. However, there is evidence to suggest that psychological experience may precipitate IBS perhaps by exacerbating or modulating pre-existing gut-brain physiological miscommunication processes.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to show a direct causal relationships between negative psychological experiences and physiological gut-brain miscommunication to 'cause' IBS.

In many ways after you have IBS the cause is somewhat irrelevant. One's time is better focused on developing tools for managing the symptoms.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Renee new
      #352111 - 11/13/09 07:56 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Syl, it's clear to me that you believe medical science may one day understand the physiological process and be able to cure IBS. And from what I've read of your responses, you only believe something works if there is a research study to prove that it does.

It is my belief that one of the reasons medical science cannot explain nor effectively treat chronic illnesses such as IBS and Fibromyalgia, as well as chronic pain, is because they are going in the wrong direction. That much is obvious to me in my personal experiences with medical doctors (not to mention hearing from so many others about their experiences with medical doctors) who tell us things like eat more roughage, take this drug that is likely to cause you more problems in the way of side effects and do very little to actually treat your symptoms, and so on.

They spend no time whatsoever discussing your personal history, or looking at you as anything more than a bunch of parts working together to form a complex machine. Just the lack of a holistic view of health alone is the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.

Humans are not just machines, we experience complex emotions that affect our bodies in a multitude of ways. No one will deny that our bodies produce a physiological response when we get embarrassed or nervous, angry or scared. Emotions are driving those responses. When you look at what we experience throughout our lives, it really is no wonder that people are stew of emotions.

It is difficult for medical researchers to study how emotions create physiological health problems, at least in the objective way that pharmaceutical studies are done, using a placebo and all. But medical studies are also not the be all, end all in giving us answers about our health either. They often produce contradictory results. How many times have we heard drinking wine is good for us, only to find it is in fact bad for us, then it is good again?

What about thousands of patients in a clinical setting who heal from incredible chronic pain and illness through psychological treatment, when physiological treatment did very little for their suffering? Does that not give us evidence that the source of their pain is psychological in nature?

Until western medicine truly sees a human being as a mindbody entity, and accept that our life struggles and emotional pain have a direct impact on our health, I don't believe they will find the 'cure' for IBS.

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Re: Renee new
      #352119 - 11/14/09 05:14 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Frygurl,

Your comments are insightful and eloquently written.

Your assumptions about my thinking are generally correct. I refuse to fall back into dark ages with the trap of old school thinking that IBS is 'all in our heads'. This is the sort of out dated thinking about the mind-body interaction that once claimed diseases such schizophrenia were the result of up bringing and childhood psychological trauma. Over the past 30 years these ideas about schizophrenia have been discarded in favor of a physiological model where faulty neuronal development in the fetal brain develops into a full-blown illness in late adolescence or early adulthood. These new physiological understandings are the result of new insights from Western and Eastern medicine.

Thankfully, over the past 15 years IBS has been slowing moving from the murky shadows of a psychological disorder into the full light of physiological disorder. IBS isn't 'in our heads' it is 'in our bodies'.

I do strongly believe that a variety of psychological therapies are very powerful tools for managing IBS. Each of us has to choose which of these tools best reduces stress and anxiety to manage IBS. I have learned, practiced and taught a few of these techniques. I wish you the best of luck in finding some good psychological tools that will work for you too.

Good luck

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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post for Frygirl new
      #352120 - 11/14/09 06:28 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Frygirl, don't waste your breath. We need to discuss it elsewhere.

It's not about being "all in your head". That is NOT what the book is about. And it IS about being "in the body" as he well recognizes. People that think that are NOT understanding his message. Too bad for you.

So, let us move it somewhere so that we can discuss it without interruption.

As you get towards the end of the book, there are two other books mentioned.

The book gets better and better and is so true!

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for Windchimes new
      #352121 - 11/14/09 06:37 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Renee, Frygirl and I are discussing a book we are reading. It is best that we take the discussion to another forum. Don't bother debating or arguing. It is a waste of your breath. Some are set in their ways.

If you want to read the book and join in the conversation, we will let you know where to come to have a discussion.

Most of us reading the book believe and UNDERSTAND Dr. Sarno's message. There is no debate for us, as some here want to encourage us to do.

So, just hang tight and save your breath.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352132 - 11/14/09 11:50 AM
Digby

Reged: 07/31/04
Posts: 453


I thought the living room was for any subject that didn't fit the other boards, so discussion about this book seems appropriate. I'm reading the book now and totally agree with what Sarno is saying.
I've tried the IBS diet and at times it works and has been a lifesaver, and at other times it doesn't. Right now I'm going through a spell that has more to do with my anxiety and stress and supressed anger than anything I'm eating.
The gut is considered the "second brain," so it makes sense to me that if we're holding on to frightening emotions or thoughts, it's going to change our gut chemistry and give symptoms.
Yesterday my naturopath had me go to the center of my pain, and ask it what it's feeling, what it needs, and so on. M pain level went down from an 8 to a 5, and I was able to eat solid food without problem at dinner. I definitely think there's validity to what Sarno is saying, and for those of us still struggling is spite of following the diet, it might be worth considering other approaches (hypnosis, therapy, Sarno's approach, etc.)
I knew a woman who had such crippling back pain that when she flew anywhere she had to purchase three tickets so she could lay flat the whole time, and when she attended meetings she lay down on the floor. She read Sarno's book "Mind Over Back Pain" and just by reading the book her pain went away. Our brains are amazing,and I'm finding the whole field of neuroscience fascinating.
Another interesting book I recommend is "Evolve Your Brain" by Joe Dispenza, which goes into the science of how we can literally change our minds by building new connections in the brain. It explains how thoughts can create chemical reactions that keep us addicted to patterns and feelings. It's possible, he says, to not only change these patterns, but also reprogram and evolve the brain and heal our bodies. Fascinating.

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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #352136 - 11/14/09 12:30 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Yes, Digby you are right. However, for those of us, like you, who are open to alternative methods and who think out of box of the Western way of "body part" medicine, it can be difficult at times to chat here. You have those that are so scientifically/clinically oriented, that if they cannot measure, study, prove, etc. something, then they interrupt the flow of the conversation with negativity, debate, or argument. That is what several of us were finding was happening.

That is why I had made the suggestion that we needed a place outside of Heather's boards, where we could chat openly about how we felt, not only about IBS but other health issues. I love Heather's boards, don't get me wrong, but I would rather chat where you can discuss, dairy, or meat, or chocolate, or energy medicine, or Reiki, or books like Sarno's, or acupuncture, EFT, etc., anything that you would like to discuss, that may not fit into someone's else's idea of treatment. I don't want to be limited in what I can or cannot discuss. I want to be able to put it out there for discussion.

So, I have started setting up a spot on Ning. If your email address is in your profile, once I get it rolling, I will send you a link, if you are interested. It will NOT be opened to the public, and will be by invitation only.

By the way, speaking of the brain, I read the Linden Method and practiced it for anxiety. He speaks of the same pathways in the brain, that can be changed from repeated bad patterns and habits, and to reprogram the brain to a different way of being.

I really love discussing alternative ways of seeing our lives and bodies. I think we could have a great chat room for those interested.

The tag line on the Alternative Care group room is, "If you are open-minded, free-spirited, and soul-inspired, then you are welcome."

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Re: Renee new
      #352158 - 11/14/09 06:40 PM
renee21

Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 486
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hey Syl,

Everyone who reads these boards benefits from your insightful, well-researched and well-written posts. I am always interested to see how you will weigh in on a question or issue. So I would be genuinely curious to hear your thoughts about The Divided Mind... once you've read it in its entirety. Until then, all this back-and-forth seems a little pointless.

I found the second half of the book very compelling - each chapter is written by a different doctor who has utilized Sarno's principles in his or her practice. I found their contributions illustrated that his line of thinking is anything but outdated.

Have a read.. tell us what you think

--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.

Edited by renee21 (11/14/09 06:48 PM)

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Re: Renee new
      #352161 - 11/15/09 06:52 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Hey Renee,

It is difficult to take an author seriously that starts off in the introduction of the Divide Mind by maligning the American medical profession for the removing the term psychosomatic from its dictionary of standard psychiatric terms and calling this action equivalent to removing the word infection from the medical vocabulary.

Quote:

The enormity of this miscarriage of medical practice to what would exist if medicine refused to acknowledge the existence of bacteria and viruses. Perhaps the most heinous manifestation of scientific medievalism has been the elimination of the term psychosomatic from the recent editions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the official publication of the American Psychiatric Association. One might as well eliminate the word infection from medical dictionaries.




He is annoyed that knowledgeable medical professionals have discarded the foundations of his psychosomatic notions. As I stated in a previous posting Sarno is using old notions about the mind-body connection (or as he says 'mindbody connection' ) that even his professional medical colleagues disposed of some time ago.

More problematic is the misrepresentation of 'irritable bowel syndrome' as TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome) - a psychosomatic disorder.

Quote:

(TMS), a painful psychosomatic disorder afflicting millions. The Divided Mind will deal with the full range of psychosomatic disorders, a far broader and more important subject. Psychosomatic disorders fall into two categories

1. Those disorders that are directly induced by unconscious emotions, such as the pain problems (TMS) and common gastrointestinal conditions including reflux, ulcers, irritable bowel syndrome , skin disorders, allergies and many others.





As I stated in a previous posting over the past 15 years research has been slowing moving IBS from the murky shadows of a psychological disorder (or psychosomatic illness) into the full light of physiological disorder. IBS isn't 'in our heads' it is 'in our bodies'.

Perhaps more revealing about Sarno's ignorance about IBS comes in the form of an interview he gave on the Divided Mind where says "... bowel irregularities that use to be called colitis these days are called irritable bowel syndrome ... ". Any knowledgeable individuals knows that colitis is a form of inflammatory bowel diseases not IBS and it definitely isn't a psychosomatic diseases.

It is difficult to finish reading a book that purports to have insight into IBS when the author does not demonstrate a grasp of the basics of the disorder. He may be a wizard when it comes to back, neck and limb pain but he appears to lack basic knowledge about GI disorders.

Sorry - I prefer to spend my time reading material written by medical professionals who study and treat IBS on a daily basis than to try and finish reading a book written by an author who appears to have has little more than a speculative understanding of the disorder that he tries to label as psychosomatic.

Just my humble opinion.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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For Renee new
      #352163 - 11/15/09 07:35 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Renee, I finished the book and find it fascinating. I really believe what he writes. Of course, one would need to read the book from cover to cover to really understand it, and not just grab bits and pieces of the information.

For those that have read the book in it's entirety, it will be nice chatting with you about it and I have a list of other related books, that I am going to read and I will share with you.

The mind is really amazing in how it protects us, isn't it?


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Re: The Divided Mind - Psychological Causes new
      #365253 - 06/24/11 02:05 PM
chuck25

Reged: 06/23/11
Posts: 1


I can't speak highly enough of Dr. Sarno's TMS approach. I found myself on every page of his book. With that said I like the book They Can't Find Anything Wrong with Me by Gastroentologist David Clarke. He explains it as stress illness instead of oxygen deprivation, which makes more sense to me. If you are interested check out this TMS recovery program What really helped me the most was reading these TMS Success Stories Has anyone else been helped by this approach?

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