falling off the vegan wagon
#338347 - 11/19/08 06:24 PM
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I am having a hard time keeping up my desire to eat only non meat. I made chili with fake hamburger and spaghetti with fake sausage and both really bothered me. I just didn't like them and didn't want to eat. Ok so that is why being vegan makes you lose weight!  I just hate the non meat choices out there. They are not healthy and basically are alternatives to junky stuff anyway (mostly). I have tried to get into tofu and tempeh but can't really say I like it. I suppose it is like starting the IBS diet and takes getting used to. I would be happy just eating vegetables all the time- especially root veggies- but that doesn't really make a meal and hub expects an actual dinner. I don't miss meat really and still am very against the thought of animals dying. But I am very disappointed in the non meat choices! I like nuts and do eat home raised egg whites but I am not a bean fan, tofu just isn't great and the non meat stuff is junky and has a weird texture. I'm not sure what to do. I am still having seafood once a week or so but that is so bad for the environment. Ugh. Any suggestions would be great. Help with recipes may be needed too.
Oh also I do fine for lunch. Most of the time I have boca burgers with all the fixins and these are yummy. Dinners are my problem. I am a gourmet cook and these meat alternatives just aren't up to snuff!
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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This is pretty tough - a vegan who doesn't like soy or beans! if you're going to cut out all animal products you may need to find a taste for them? When I was a vegan I did find that my taste buds really changed and that simple flavors of grains, beans & vegetables got more and more enjoyable without much seasoning even. My taste buds kind of re-calibrated, hopefully that will happen to you. There must be some gourmet or at least non-crunchy vegan cookbooks maybe from a fancy veg. restaurant. Not sure but maybe "Greens" in SF ? The cookbooks I had 15 years ago that were strict vegan were pretty boring but I'm sure that's changed - check amazon if you haven't already.
When I was a vegetarian, (for 8 years with one year vegan) I didn't eat any of the fake meat stuff, its all pretty awful and as meat had become pretty unappetizing I didn't get the appeal. Is your husband a vegan too now? If not, Why doesn't he just buy a steak or some chicken or whatever and cook it himself to add to what you make?
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Ladies & gentlemen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.
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I substitute ground beef for ground chicken.It's better for you and tastes the same.
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, Minnie! Going vegan was the best decision I ever made, but it's easier for some people than others. I love beans and tofu, so I don't have a very hard time coming up with protein sources. My FAVORITE vegan cookbooks are by Sarah Kramer, there are three of them, if you want to give that another shot. I think I have posted a few of my favorites from those books on the recipe board at one time or another. Another yummy vegetarian cookbook is "The Grit", which is actually a restaurant in Atlanta. There is an AWESOME tofu parmesan recipe in there that we've made quite a few times. Most of the recipes can be made vegan with substitution.
I can't say I like all the fake meat stuff out there, but there is some good stuff. "Field Grains" makes a REALLY good roast, which we are planning to have for Thanksgiving. We buy that at Whole Foods. They also make some really good fake sausage (the kind you slice). Earlier this week we made some delicious "sausage" pizza using this fake sausage that came in a tube, sorta like you buy the Jimmy Dean stuff. I think it was called "Gimme Lean" or something and it was SO good, spicy just like real sausage. So, there are definitely some really good alternatives out there (and some really bad ones), you just have to be willing to give things a shot.  I probably eat beans WAY more than I eat "fake meat", by the way.
I hope you are able to stick with it, but I know it's not for everyone. I applaud your concern for the environment! It upsets me that it's not more well-known that animal agriculture is actually the leading contributor to greenhouse gas production, NOT the automobile industry.
Good luck!
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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I don't want to get into a big fight here about being vegan, it's a personal choice however if everyone went vegan and the animal farmers were to stop producing...where do you think the fertilizer would come from for growing your vegetables?
The soil needs to be replenished and if we no longer have cow poop and pig poop and yes smelly ole chicken poop, they will have to rely on one of two things.One chemical fertilizers which I blame for half of our IBS problems or two people poop.Yes there are fields that use human waste on there fields.It's called sludge. 
If you want to eat organic....organic animal waste is the way to go.
I understand why some people choose not to eat meat. I believe we should all eat some meat.
As for animal agriculture contributing to the green house gas production,the farmers that raise thousands of animals know that that much manure is causing issues and they are now taking steps to correct these problems.There is a farm in the west of Canada that uses all its manure and methane gas to power the farm.They hope to be off the grid soon.
Think of all the things we all do on a daily basis that contributes to our environmental issues. If our farmers could have stayed small and the goverment and the banks hadn't steped in and put the small guys out of business then this huge manure problem wouldn't be such an issue.We would be producing the amount of manure needed for each small peice of land so the farmers would be able to grow your soy beans and make your tofu.
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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Sorry, but you need to read some of John Robbin's work, to get more of the big picture.
Lynn
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Actually I have read some of his literature.
While I may agree with some of the things he has to say I would gladly take you to my parents farm where he raises 40 head of cattle .They are pasture fed all summer and fed hay in the winter as well as corn fed.Their corn is limited and their hay is always full.They are never injected with steroids or chemicals unless one falls sick .I think you would agree that to give a cow antibiotics or medicine when sick is the humane thing to do.
Knowing where your beef comes from or your vegetables is the key here. We know our beef is safe to eat.We know our beef is taken care of.Even though we do not hold a certificate claiming organic, we know our animals have been taking care of.
Mr Robbins states that no matter if you buy organic or lot cattle, they are all taken to slaughter houses that "skin the animals alive and have their feet cut off while still breathing" I would gladly take you to our local slaughter house and you would find a clean environment and a abattoir that does none of those things.
Mr Robbins is a man that has many interesting ideas however when he goes searching for his information, he is doing so without the benefit of an open mind.He already knows he doesn't approve of eating meat.That is a personal choice for anyone but I have a problem with the people who say ALL farmers do this or that ALL slaughter house do that.
There are those farmers who yes do NOT treat their animals well who find no issue with raising their pigs in crates or chickens in cages and NO I do NOT agree with them.I believe animals should be treated properly and have the best living conditions possible.My dad knows all his cattle by name and they all have unique personalities.
We still choose to eat beef.
Our home grown beef tastes ten thousand times better than store bought.
We live in the middle of farm country and all around us are farmers who makes good choices and some who do not.It is unfair to lump them all in the same category.That would be like saying all politicians are liars...no wait they all are.
No that would be like saying all teachers are bad at teaching.Some are some aren't.It takes education on both sides to get the whole picture and if going into something with an opinion already made,you will never be able to make the right decision.
I do agree that as a society we all eat too much meat. Obesity is certainly on the rise and I feel that is do to less home made meals and vast quantities of meat.
I do not however blame all the farmers for the deplorable conditions found in some barns nor do I feel eliminating meat from ones diet will solve all the problems either.
Vegan, Vegetarian or not is a personal choice but shouldn't be made by using the information of only one man who clearly does not eat meat.
Besides all that we will go to the garden pull a carrot, skin it chop it into pieces and throw it into boiling water while it's still alive. How cruel is that?
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IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
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Treat them very well until you slaughter them. OK, I get it... that makes sense to me.
I have read much more than Mr. Robbins, including books by those who are unbiased and who eat animal flesh. You have obviously not read much of his work, since in one of his latest books, he actually sits down to dinner with a farmer, and finds great compassion for this man, for whom farming and slaughtering animals had been in his family for years. This was this man's way of life and all he knew, and Mr. Robbins felt very much for him.
So, yes in my search for knowledge and information I have read much from both camps, and used all of that info to make informed decisions, not only as a consumer, but also as a human being.
As in any area of life, there are good and bad. There are those that take things to extremes. You can never make a cut and dried statement about either side, since there are good and bad in both.
Sorry, I touched a nerve.
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Quote:
Treat them very well until you slaughter them. OK, I get it... that makes sense to me.
LOL! Reminds me of the Kobe beef with their massages and beer to drink and all that. I don't get people that think it would be better to raise your own meat and then kill it yourself. I may be able to kill a goose since they are wicked creatures but most likely not.  I don't really care what animals are fed. For me it is not about antibiotics and that sort of thing. I care about the moments before death most. If the horrible incidents you hear about are extremely isolated I would feel better but one animal tortured out of a million is one too many. Even the intense fear they feel before being slaughtered is bad enough- without having any pain. But lets face it- their deaths are never painless. Maybe gas chambers would be humane. Maybe like in Soilant Green- they just watch beautiful images until drifting off to sleep and dying. I would eat meat then maybe.
There is something that just doesn't get through to animal farmers. There is a brick wall there or something. When you have been taught it is ok from a very young age to kill animals to eat them it is nearly impossible to think otherwise. * see footnote
Manure is not actually needed to grow vegetables; compost can be better. If I get the farm I want I would have manure to use by having some animal friends on the farm and I would have compost. In my field now I used rabbit manure from pets and compost. It was just fine. In fact most of the farmers in my area do not use manure as they do not have access to any. But honestly it would take a huge conversion of people to make any changes in the animal industry. I don't see anyone losing their farms in the near future. But if farmers were smart they would always be diversified.
*My family on each side were dairy farmers and I loved dairy all my life but gave it up 5 years ago completely. My father was a hunter/trapper! of all things but I never approved of it even as a kid. I never have approved of animals skins or game. Almost everyone I know or work with deer hunts and has all this propaganda about how the herds get too big and will starve without hunters to thin the numbers. That is bull crap. The problem is with all the predators being depleted and with urban sprawl. Predators kill the weak and old prey and improve the strength of the herd whereas hunters kill the biggest and strongest (and pretty much never shoot and kill but follow a blood trail of an injured animal sometimes for miles until it finally dies. That is why bow shot deer are regarded as less tasty since they live so long after being shot). Since hunters have shot all the wolves and bear in most areas there are no natural regulators for deer populations except weather and disease (and automobiles). It is completely ridiculous that bears are allowed to be hunted. Still when you hear of many guys coming back from hunting with nothing, like this year, you know the deer populations are not out of hand.
See a person doesn't need to follow in their parent's footsteps.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Absolutely loved your post, Little Minnie. I could never name an animal, get to know it's personality, and then look it in the eye and murder it.
There was a very good article written by a man, (maybe I can dig up the website), that put everything into perspective for me.
For many years (10 to be exact), I traveled, wrote, and worked undercover for an agency that investigated animal cruelty. The 10 years that I spent doing this was more like 20. The emotional, spiritual, mental, and physical toll it took on me was incredible. I had to stop for my sanity.
I tried turkey burgers again recently, but threw them up. All I could see was the image embedded in my mind, of what I had witnessed and I knew I could never and I mean never go back. I am not proud to say that, but if anything, I am honest. I guess I was feeling a bit like you, so limited in the IBS diet, but that was not the answer for me. I was so used to eating tons of veggies, but now I have to limit that.
It is true, it is not for everyone. That is why we live in America, freedom of choice. It's great to have that right. I can only speak from my perspective.
I will try to find that website and I will post it for you. It was nice chatting with you.
Lynn
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