falling off the vegan wagon
#338347 - 11/19/08 06:24 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am having a hard time keeping up my desire to eat only non meat. I made chili with fake hamburger and spaghetti with fake sausage and both really bothered me. I just didn't like them and didn't want to eat. Ok so that is why being vegan makes you lose weight!  I just hate the non meat choices out there. They are not healthy and basically are alternatives to junky stuff anyway (mostly). I have tried to get into tofu and tempeh but can't really say I like it. I suppose it is like starting the IBS diet and takes getting used to. I would be happy just eating vegetables all the time- especially root veggies- but that doesn't really make a meal and hub expects an actual dinner. I don't miss meat really and still am very against the thought of animals dying. But I am very disappointed in the non meat choices! I like nuts and do eat home raised egg whites but I am not a bean fan, tofu just isn't great and the non meat stuff is junky and has a weird texture. I'm not sure what to do. I am still having seafood once a week or so but that is so bad for the environment. Ugh. Any suggestions would be great. Help with recipes may be needed too.
Oh also I do fine for lunch. Most of the time I have boca burgers with all the fixins and these are yummy. Dinners are my problem. I am a gourmet cook and these meat alternatives just aren't up to snuff!
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
This is pretty tough - a vegan who doesn't like soy or beans! if you're going to cut out all animal products you may need to find a taste for them? When I was a vegan I did find that my taste buds really changed and that simple flavors of grains, beans & vegetables got more and more enjoyable without much seasoning even. My taste buds kind of re-calibrated, hopefully that will happen to you. There must be some gourmet or at least non-crunchy vegan cookbooks maybe from a fancy veg. restaurant. Not sure but maybe "Greens" in SF ? The cookbooks I had 15 years ago that were strict vegan were pretty boring but I'm sure that's changed - check amazon if you haven't already.
When I was a vegetarian, (for 8 years with one year vegan) I didn't eat any of the fake meat stuff, its all pretty awful and as meat had become pretty unappetizing I didn't get the appeal. Is your husband a vegan too now? If not, Why doesn't he just buy a steak or some chicken or whatever and cook it himself to add to what you make?
--------------------
Ladies & gentlemen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I substitute ground beef for ground chicken.It's better for you and tastes the same.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, Minnie! Going vegan was the best decision I ever made, but it's easier for some people than others. I love beans and tofu, so I don't have a very hard time coming up with protein sources. My FAVORITE vegan cookbooks are by Sarah Kramer, there are three of them, if you want to give that another shot. I think I have posted a few of my favorites from those books on the recipe board at one time or another. Another yummy vegetarian cookbook is "The Grit", which is actually a restaurant in Atlanta. There is an AWESOME tofu parmesan recipe in there that we've made quite a few times. Most of the recipes can be made vegan with substitution.
I can't say I like all the fake meat stuff out there, but there is some good stuff. "Field Grains" makes a REALLY good roast, which we are planning to have for Thanksgiving. We buy that at Whole Foods. They also make some really good fake sausage (the kind you slice). Earlier this week we made some delicious "sausage" pizza using this fake sausage that came in a tube, sorta like you buy the Jimmy Dean stuff. I think it was called "Gimme Lean" or something and it was SO good, spicy just like real sausage. So, there are definitely some really good alternatives out there (and some really bad ones), you just have to be willing to give things a shot.  I probably eat beans WAY more than I eat "fake meat", by the way.
I hope you are able to stick with it, but I know it's not for everyone. I applaud your concern for the environment! It upsets me that it's not more well-known that animal agriculture is actually the leading contributor to greenhouse gas production, NOT the automobile industry.
Good luck!
--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I don't want to get into a big fight here about being vegan, it's a personal choice however if everyone went vegan and the animal farmers were to stop producing...where do you think the fertilizer would come from for growing your vegetables?
The soil needs to be replenished and if we no longer have cow poop and pig poop and yes smelly ole chicken poop, they will have to rely on one of two things.One chemical fertilizers which I blame for half of our IBS problems or two people poop.Yes there are fields that use human waste on there fields.It's called sludge. 
If you want to eat organic....organic animal waste is the way to go.
I understand why some people choose not to eat meat. I believe we should all eat some meat.
As for animal agriculture contributing to the green house gas production,the farmers that raise thousands of animals know that that much manure is causing issues and they are now taking steps to correct these problems.There is a farm in the west of Canada that uses all its manure and methane gas to power the farm.They hope to be off the grid soon.
Think of all the things we all do on a daily basis that contributes to our environmental issues. If our farmers could have stayed small and the goverment and the banks hadn't steped in and put the small guys out of business then this huge manure problem wouldn't be such an issue.We would be producing the amount of manure needed for each small peice of land so the farmers would be able to grow your soy beans and make your tofu.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Sorry, but you need to read some of John Robbin's work, to get more of the big picture.
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Actually I have read some of his literature.
While I may agree with some of the things he has to say I would gladly take you to my parents farm where he raises 40 head of cattle .They are pasture fed all summer and fed hay in the winter as well as corn fed.Their corn is limited and their hay is always full.They are never injected with steroids or chemicals unless one falls sick .I think you would agree that to give a cow antibiotics or medicine when sick is the humane thing to do.
Knowing where your beef comes from or your vegetables is the key here. We know our beef is safe to eat.We know our beef is taken care of.Even though we do not hold a certificate claiming organic, we know our animals have been taking care of.
Mr Robbins states that no matter if you buy organic or lot cattle, they are all taken to slaughter houses that "skin the animals alive and have their feet cut off while still breathing" I would gladly take you to our local slaughter house and you would find a clean environment and a abattoir that does none of those things.
Mr Robbins is a man that has many interesting ideas however when he goes searching for his information, he is doing so without the benefit of an open mind.He already knows he doesn't approve of eating meat.That is a personal choice for anyone but I have a problem with the people who say ALL farmers do this or that ALL slaughter house do that.
There are those farmers who yes do NOT treat their animals well who find no issue with raising their pigs in crates or chickens in cages and NO I do NOT agree with them.I believe animals should be treated properly and have the best living conditions possible.My dad knows all his cattle by name and they all have unique personalities.
We still choose to eat beef.
Our home grown beef tastes ten thousand times better than store bought.
We live in the middle of farm country and all around us are farmers who makes good choices and some who do not.It is unfair to lump them all in the same category.That would be like saying all politicians are liars...no wait they all are.
No that would be like saying all teachers are bad at teaching.Some are some aren't.It takes education on both sides to get the whole picture and if going into something with an opinion already made,you will never be able to make the right decision.
I do agree that as a society we all eat too much meat. Obesity is certainly on the rise and I feel that is do to less home made meals and vast quantities of meat.
I do not however blame all the farmers for the deplorable conditions found in some barns nor do I feel eliminating meat from ones diet will solve all the problems either.
Vegan, Vegetarian or not is a personal choice but shouldn't be made by using the information of only one man who clearly does not eat meat.
Besides all that we will go to the garden pull a carrot, skin it chop it into pieces and throw it into boiling water while it's still alive. How cruel is that?
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Treat them very well until you slaughter them. OK, I get it... that makes sense to me.
I have read much more than Mr. Robbins, including books by those who are unbiased and who eat animal flesh. You have obviously not read much of his work, since in one of his latest books, he actually sits down to dinner with a farmer, and finds great compassion for this man, for whom farming and slaughtering animals had been in his family for years. This was this man's way of life and all he knew, and Mr. Robbins felt very much for him.
So, yes in my search for knowledge and information I have read much from both camps, and used all of that info to make informed decisions, not only as a consumer, but also as a human being.
As in any area of life, there are good and bad. There are those that take things to extremes. You can never make a cut and dried statement about either side, since there are good and bad in both.
Sorry, I touched a nerve.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Treat them very well until you slaughter them. OK, I get it... that makes sense to me.
LOL! Reminds me of the Kobe beef with their massages and beer to drink and all that. I don't get people that think it would be better to raise your own meat and then kill it yourself. I may be able to kill a goose since they are wicked creatures but most likely not.  I don't really care what animals are fed. For me it is not about antibiotics and that sort of thing. I care about the moments before death most. If the horrible incidents you hear about are extremely isolated I would feel better but one animal tortured out of a million is one too many. Even the intense fear they feel before being slaughtered is bad enough- without having any pain. But lets face it- their deaths are never painless. Maybe gas chambers would be humane. Maybe like in Soilant Green- they just watch beautiful images until drifting off to sleep and dying. I would eat meat then maybe.
There is something that just doesn't get through to animal farmers. There is a brick wall there or something. When you have been taught it is ok from a very young age to kill animals to eat them it is nearly impossible to think otherwise. * see footnote
Manure is not actually needed to grow vegetables; compost can be better. If I get the farm I want I would have manure to use by having some animal friends on the farm and I would have compost. In my field now I used rabbit manure from pets and compost. It was just fine. In fact most of the farmers in my area do not use manure as they do not have access to any. But honestly it would take a huge conversion of people to make any changes in the animal industry. I don't see anyone losing their farms in the near future. But if farmers were smart they would always be diversified.
*My family on each side were dairy farmers and I loved dairy all my life but gave it up 5 years ago completely. My father was a hunter/trapper! of all things but I never approved of it even as a kid. I never have approved of animals skins or game. Almost everyone I know or work with deer hunts and has all this propaganda about how the herds get too big and will starve without hunters to thin the numbers. That is bull crap. The problem is with all the predators being depleted and with urban sprawl. Predators kill the weak and old prey and improve the strength of the herd whereas hunters kill the biggest and strongest (and pretty much never shoot and kill but follow a blood trail of an injured animal sometimes for miles until it finally dies. That is why bow shot deer are regarded as less tasty since they live so long after being shot). Since hunters have shot all the wolves and bear in most areas there are no natural regulators for deer populations except weather and disease (and automobiles). It is completely ridiculous that bears are allowed to be hunted. Still when you hear of many guys coming back from hunting with nothing, like this year, you know the deer populations are not out of hand.
See a person doesn't need to follow in their parent's footsteps.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Absolutely loved your post, Little Minnie. I could never name an animal, get to know it's personality, and then look it in the eye and murder it.
There was a very good article written by a man, (maybe I can dig up the website), that put everything into perspective for me.
For many years (10 to be exact), I traveled, wrote, and worked undercover for an agency that investigated animal cruelty. The 10 years that I spent doing this was more like 20. The emotional, spiritual, mental, and physical toll it took on me was incredible. I had to stop for my sanity.
I tried turkey burgers again recently, but threw them up. All I could see was the image embedded in my mind, of what I had witnessed and I knew I could never and I mean never go back. I am not proud to say that, but if anything, I am honest. I guess I was feeling a bit like you, so limited in the IBS diet, but that was not the answer for me. I was so used to eating tons of veggies, but now I have to limit that.
It is true, it is not for everyone. That is why we live in America, freedom of choice. It's great to have that right. I can only speak from my perspective.
I will try to find that website and I will post it for you. It was nice chatting with you.
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I am very sympathetic for the work you did and the toll it took on you! I think it would be like on Law and Order SVU. Someone has to investigate rapes but can you imagine doing that for a job and how draining and horrible it would be? I think that is an exact comparison of how bad it would be to investigate animal crimes, especially certain kinds. I sometimes have to not open things I get from USHS and Peta since the graphic stories sometimes affect me too greatly. Not that I turn a blind eye! I just can't read all of it, just like I choose to not read all there is about rape in eastern Africa, etc. What a world!
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You are quite right. I need cookbooks. I will go to the library and get some I have been recommended. I made vegan fettucini alfredo tonight and hub and I really liked it. I didn't mean to say I was back into eating meat like a Texan or anything, just that it was getting tough.
Did anyone see the Dinner Impossible with Mike Symons where he had to serve non meat products to 500 cowboys? I wish they had given more insight into exactly what he did. I should search for some of those recipes. You see, sometimes the recipes you find are from people who don't necessarily have very good palates or haven't had meat in so long they forgot how good it tastes.
I am not a very all or nothing person so my goal has been to drastically reduce my poultry and other meats and to cut out regular eggs and just use home raised. But, like when I had a cold a month or two ago I made chicken wild rice soup and I had a turkey this month because it was free. And I still eat some fish and scallops and shrimp. I believe crab legs are more cruel but I am not proud of eating fish either! Still, I am gradually getting there. 
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Yes, it is very hard to look at. It is much easier to look away, and try to pretend it isn't that bad. But, that is a natural human reaction for someone who is sensitive to the in-humane treatment of God's creatures. Some people seem to just have hardened hearts and those are the people that can view these crimes with no emotional reaction at all. After all...it's just an animal. The worst for me was and is the fur trade. Absolute misery for these creatures.
I was able to get in touch with my friend about the website. I don't have the exact link, but it is Michael Bluejay's website. If you go there and go to the green section and then articles, you will see the article. If you navigate, you will find it.
The article is under "Why Humans Are Not Natural Meat-Eaters", and once you click on that, you will see the article titled, "Eating Meat Isn't Natural."
It is a very good read.
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Just curious what your thoughts are on God using "God's creatures" for burnt offerings and food in the Bible? Not trying to stir things up, but I thought that was an interesting statement you made. I am a strong Christian. And there are numerous places in the Bible that God tells people to eat meat and says it's ok. Your statement seems kind of contradictory. Just looking for some clarification on your views.
--------------------
~Mary
Had surgery for rectal prolapse in Sept. '06 and feeling good now! Loving life with our IVF miracle #1.
 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Sorry, Mary V, wrong choice of words. I am not a religious person, nor do I read the bible, so I would not be the person to debate that. I do not have the knowledge.
I can only speak to what I have witnessed with my own eyes, and therefore have first hand knowledge.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Everyone has personal choices and I believe discussions like this only divide us and pull us away from the central premise of this IBS website. It's like a discussion on religion, politics or abortion. There will never be a definitive answer. We should be here to support and help, not judge other's beliefs or lifestyle.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
First of all, this thread was not formed as a discussion of vegetarianism. I wanted personal help for a decision I have already made. I am not arguing anything with meat eaters here.
Second, this is the living room board and not about IBS- those threads are on the Diet board. That is why I am talking about my food views here.
Third, since you brought it up, I am well versed in the Bible. It clearly shows humans were not made to eat meat. Meat was allowed into the diet after the flood when there was little vegetation available. The mosaic law clearly showed God's care for animals, in law's about plowing, resting, etc, and in the disapproval of the way the Israelites feasted on the quail. Humans are clearly commissioned to care for animals. Animals were here first then humans. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that commands a person eat meat, but right now there are no commands to not eat meat either. It is a personal choice. A Christian should, however, remember the sanctity of life and not take any life for granted. If a Christian chooses to hunt or fish it should be done only for food and in the most respectful way, showing our gratitude for the lives God has given us. Remember that God knows every sparrow, so he obviously gives alot of attention to animals. Humans mistreatment of animals and the concession to eat meat are temporary and not as God intended. Rev 11:18 says God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth, and the misuse of animals is a pollution cause that will not be overlooked. Had humans not sinned in the Garden of Eden they would have continued to eat *perfect* fruits and vegetables. Only after the rebellion did humans start to kill animals. Animal sacrifices were sacred and not done a food source, but to prefigure the sacrifice of Jesus, the last "burnt offering", as the Bible calls it, that was ever needed. So at this time there is no command telling humans to ever kill animals.
Any other questions? I would be glad to explain further.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Also just curious, why did god create carnivores?
Animal cruelty is absolutely wrong, you are correct.The law doesn't punish harshly enough for these misdeeds.
I think there are farmers who do need to be taught better.All creatures human or animal deserve to have a good quality of life.
I do not think there is anything wrong with being vegan or vegetarian, I have a problem with others telling me that because I eat meat that somehow I am inferior to them.I am not saying that you have or anyone else, just a general overall feeling I get from speaking to Vegans.
The bible contradicts itself and everything must be taken into context. To say we should or shouldn't do something because the bible says so, depends on how you interpert it, and whether or not you believe in it at all.
I too believe in choice either way.Personnal choice.Just don't tell me that I'm wrong for choosing my way.If when we meet in heaven and God says I can't come in because I ate meat,then so be it.
Little Minnie,
I hope you are feeling better and can get through this little bump in the road.we are here to support each other no matter what and we do try.
I have never tried tofu and soy is NOT my best friend so i hope you find something to work out for you.Food seems like such a chore anymore.We have to constantly be thinking about what we put in our mouths and man that is exhausting.
Sending good thoughts your way
Chris
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Little Minnie, you are a gem. Loved your post!!!
Listen, as far as diet goes, I don't even waste my time with the meat substitutes. After all, why try to duplicate something that you wouldn't want to eat anyway.
I make a tofu spaghetti that is pretty good. After all, tofu absorbs the flavor of whatever it is cooked with. If you get the extra frim, it can be like a meat substitute, if that is what you are looking for.
I tend to make alot of soups, stews, and casseroles, along with a good bread. I am not really fond of beans, but when they are well mashed up and seasoned, they can be incorporated into many dishes. Kind of disguised, if you know what I mean.
My daughter is a vegetarian and she likes this eggless soufle I used to make. I made it on the stove top and it was pretty tasty. It involved adding cauliflower and broccoli, but I know they can be no-no's for some. I haven't made in in years, but I am sure you could substitute some root veggies instead. I will try to find that recipe, but I can't make any promises. My daughter is a vegetarian and she is now 34, so the little rat may have swiped my recipe. 
I will look through my files and see if I can find something that might give more substance to your meals. As Heather has found, I guess you need to try other cuisines, and experiment. You have probably have tried that, right?
On the 4th of July this year, at my daughter's house, she bought a really good veggie burger. I had tried many and did not like the taste, but this one was delish! She has a separate grill for her veggies to avoid cross-contamination, and believe me she can get creative. I will see if she can get me the name of that brand.
I know it can get difficult at times, but just know that I understand, and I applaud you!
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Ah, it is SO nice to hear other people say exactly how I feel. I just decided long ago that I can't look my three cats in the eye and love them as much as I do, but turn around and eat OTHER animals. To me, a living being is a living being. Small family farms are one thing, in my opinion they are not the problem. The problem is the HUGE factory farms where animals are tortured and abused their whole lives. It saddens me that this cruelty is "okay", and I swear I'll never eat another living creature. My daughter - soon to be born in just over 4 weeks! - will also be raised vegan. Meat is NOT healthy and is not a necessary part of a healthy diet.
My two cents.
--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Little Minnie,
I forgot on my last post to ask if hub is a veggie or meat eater?
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
My dad knows all his cattle by name and they all have unique personalities.
I had to smile at this, dragonfly. My college roommate's family raised a few head of cattle and when they slaughtered one while we were rooming together my roommate's mother gave us a lot of the meat. All the packages were neatly wrapped for the freezer and carefully labelled, "Maude".
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thats funny.
We named my daughters calf Oreo because she was black and white and I told my daughter "Boy is she ever gonna taste good"Just joking, she didn't laugh.
They can become pets thats for sure, but they cost alot to feed.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hey Little Minnie,
I spoke to my daughter and she is going to check on the name of that veggie burger. Also, she is the one that took that recipe for the eggless soufle. She will look for it. You may have to read my other posts to you to understand this one. Sorry!
Be well!
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi Dragonfly,
Years ago my husband had a business in the middle of cow pie country with many of his clients being farmers. He said it was not uncommon for a farmer with even 100 cattle to know each and every one of them by name and personality!!!!!
Boy, sometimes I have a hard time just with two nieces!!!
Sharon
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Farmers have a unique relationship with their animals.I can't tell the difference between them but my dad can tell ya which calves belong to each cow and who the dad was how many calves the've had and whos related to who.
And he can't remember my birthday.LOL
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi again Lisa Marie,
Good post!!! We have chatted before. I see from reading your post and bio, that you are a cat person. So am I. I am currently taking care of a group of feral cats in my area. Now, that is a challenge.
Best of luck to you and the imminent birth of that baby girl! I was pregnant with my daughter in the dead heat of August in Maryland. But, you do get through and it is such a joy when they arrive. And I can see by your post that she will be raised in a very healthy environment.
Congrats!
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks, Lynn! Always nice to meet another cat person!!
Ugh, I cannot IMAGINE being 8 or 9 months pregnant during summer! I was disappointed about having a "Christmas baby", but I'm getting over that quickly when I realize how lucky I am to be pregnant during the cooler weather.
Congrats to you on helping out those feral kitties!!!!
--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have 3 cats too. They eat meat, but I try to have it be more fish than beef. One was caught eating my tofu tonight.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Speaking of Oreos, we saw these cows in Maine on a trip a few years back. They're really wild:
Oreo cows
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I appreciate your good wishes.
Whether or not God created animals to eat other animals (read Genesis 1:29,30 and then 9:2-5 for info on when eating meat began) doesn't change the fact that humans should act humane. Since we know better it is crucial that we display the qualities that put us above animals- compassion, empathy and wisdom. A grizzly bear tearing some prey apart and eating it alive is just acting like a grizzly bear. We need to act like humans. If people are to eat meat they should do it as humanely to the animals as possible. Since our society is so out of whack now we can rarely be sure the meat we eat was raised and killed painlessly.
As I said in my last post, the Bible doesn't show we shouldn't eat meat now, so you don't have to worry about that. On the other hand there is nothing that says we have to. Clear?
I am sorry you, and most people, believe the Bible contradicts itself and is just all about interpretation. I have come to see it does not contradict itself and there is real black and white truth in it. God says at John 4:24 that his servants must worship with truth and if it wasn't available to us he would not expect it of us.
I am sorry a thread about trying more non meat choices has veered off into religion! I was not the one to bring it up, but I will not be mute when someone says God commands us to eat meat.  It is my choice and fortunately God created us to be able to live on a vegan diet if we choose to.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
I do not think there is anything wrong with being vegan or vegetarian, I have a problem with others telling me that because I eat meat that somehow I am inferior to them.I am not saying that you have or anyone else, just a general overall feeling I get from speaking to Vegans.
Yeah basically I presume all vegans do think they are better than non vegans when it comes to ethics. I suppose they are proud of their self control and their helping the environment and what they give to animals. As for other aspects of life I don't think vegans would think they are better, in general.
Slight bit of tongue in cheek.
I think people who are very in shape and athletic are quite proud of that too. When you get up every morning and work out hard when you want to sleep you tend to get a superiority complex over those that do not.
Just being honest.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Miss Minnie,
Don't even waste your breathe. It's not worth it. Let us move on from this thread, and start a new one in the recipe/diet section and discuss vegan/veggie recipes with others who are in sync.
I will share when I find some good recipes and you do the same. Lisa Marie has some good info, also.
Be well!
Lynn
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
He is a meat eater but for some time he has agreed to one meat free night per week for the environment. He was fine with not getting red meat at home for several years now but didn't want to give up poultry and seafood. Tonight I made him chicken and me tofu with the same preparation. I hadn't bought chicken in a very long time. All in all I am just trying to reduce his meat and eliminate mine. He basically will eat almost anything if it is spicy, so I make meatless Thai curries that he likes; a little grumbling but mostly he is satisfied. A lot of times he doesn't know something is meatless but my intention has not been to trick him.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Those are wild looking cows!!!
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Just to clarify, I did NOT mean that the Bible says we HAVE to eat meat. That is a personal choice. I was just saying there are places in the Bible (Old Testament) where God was very specific about how to prepare meat and who should eat it, etc. He even provided the meat. I was trying to show that the Bible does not say it is wrong to eat meat (as a previous post implied about killing God's creatures...yes, everything in creation is God's...but that does not mean he did not intend for us to be able to eat animals). I was just trying to show examples of where they do eat meat...like the Passover:
"Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb [a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD's Passover."
I know different rules applied in the Old Testament and today...after the ultimate sacrifice. But I still was just trying to point out that if God had intended that we should never eat meat there wouldn't be so many examples of it in the Bible. I did not mean to say that God commands us to eat meat. We just don't have to not eat meat.
--------------------
~Mary
Had surgery for rectal prolapse in Sept. '06 and feeling good now! Loving life with our IVF miracle #1.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
"Yeah basically I presume all vegans do think they are better than non vegans when it comes to ethics. I suppose they are proud of their self control and their helping the environment and what they give to animals."
In regard to the above statement you made, you should not presume ALL vegans feel this way. My best friends are vegans, however they are some of the very few who have not taken the eleteist attitude that many have. They have their own farm, have built a hay bale house and live off the land. Their not taking the attitude of being "socially superior" has given them more knowledge, understanding, empathy, and acceptance of others opinions.
The Bible is the inspired Word of God and yes, there are different interpretations. When a person is going to read the Bible, God expects us to pray before we read, asking Him to speak to us through his words and hear the message He intends for us. What God reveals for you may not be the same message He reveals to me. When we read Bible passages in Bible study, the minister will then ask us what we got out of this and lo and behold, everyone views it in a similar way, but somewhat different.
I take great offense when someone implies that I am not ethical. or for that matter even a good Christian because I am not vegetarian. I am one of the most ethical, environmentally concious persons you would ever meet. I raised my 26 year old son in a healthy environment with animals. He is also is an animal lover and not vegan. I also take great offense when you imply that another Christian's beliefs are wrong because of the way YOU have interpreted God's message. Personally I believe that God put animals on this earth not only for enjoyment, but for nourishment. There are many places in the Bible that prove this.
This is truly a personal choice and whatever that choice is has no reflection on what kind of a person he/she is. Isn't there someplace in the Bible that God says not to judge other people????
Sharon
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Ha! That's hilarious!!! Yes, cats are carnivores, and that's just the way it is. I've accepted it!
--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Nicely put.
That straw bale house sounds pretty cool.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
My suggestion that vegans do believe they are better than others was, as I pointed out, tongue in cheek. I assume everyone knows what that means.
I am also really offended in general by what has gone on here and will probably write to Heather about it.
Let's review.
I asked for help, on the Living Room forum, from those who don't eat meat to aid me in my previous choice not to eat meat.
The thread suddenly had inflammatory responses by those who somehow felt the need to argue for the side of meat eaters. The thread was not about the choice not to eat meat and whether it is good or bad but about my personal difficulties with the logistics of it.
Then someone insinuated that God has commanded his followers to eat meat and I pointed out that man did not eat meat when they were created and afterward when God allowed it after the flood he gave guidelines that showed his desire for us to respect the lives we take. (this is really absolute fact to anyone who has read the Bible)
Now I am accosted with a response that indicates I personally offended someone by some sort of implication that those who eat meat are evil or something and that I was being judgmental and pushing my opinions of Christianity so let's back up and see what really was said shall we?
I never brought God up, this was a secular discussion. I never wanted to talk about anything religious and I feel very upset that a few people cannot talk about their diets on this forum without people pushing in and arguing with them! What is so offensive about someone choosing not to eat meat?!  Why do people get so upset by it? With these People Eating Tasty Animals bumper stickers and all- it is like I said I wanted to be a communist or something. What is the deal? I want Heather to lock this thread and start a forum for meatless eating. And I don't want anybody butting into a thread about my diet choices to make me argue about what the Bible says about meat (I can do it if need be; I have nearly 30 years of Bible training). I can't believe anyone could hint that I think meat eating Christians are doing something wrong. Guess what? My husband, who I love, is a meat eating Christian.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
As any thread, others post opinions and sometimes those opinions veer away from the original post.Happens alot.
This is the living room and from what I understand this is meant for discussions that are non IBS related.Therefore I think anyone has a right to make a comment on here.
I'm not sure which comment you are refering to exactly but the responses may not be for you but someone else.
I notice that often other people will pick up a comment and start talking back and forth to each other and then the original question has nothing to do with it.
I think it would be a great idea to include a new forum for non meat eaters to exchange recipes or ideas.It would be great to have a forum strictly for vegetarians so that you don't have tp sift through all the other recipes.
Great idea.
I do think that this discussion has worn itself out though. Everyone involved has made their own point and no we don't all agreee but such is life.
I don't think anyone would say that there is a problem with not eating meat. The problem occurs when others insinuate that by eating meat, we are somehow not living in or raising our children in a healthy environment.
I have a problem with that.
As I stated before, I hope you find a reasonable solution to your dissatifaction with the nonmeat choices you have.It sounds like alot of work just figuring out your meals.
As always I hope your IBS is undercontrol and wish everyone calm tummys and regular bms.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hey Dragonfly,
Thanks....your post is a kind and understanding way to put this issue to rest.
I was just going to say "Happy Thanksgiving" but not even sure you celebrate a Thanksgiving kind of day in Canada!!!
Take Care
Sharon
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Posts
