THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ENLIGHTENING AND COMPASSIONATE DISCUSSION!!religion post
#251175 - 03/09/06 02:49 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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I love you all and appreciate you that much more now that we've gotten "up close and personal," or "intimate and interactive" with each other. It was very much an act of trust, as some of you feel very vulnerable and exposed. I know I did, because this was my first raeal profession of my Christian faith to more than one person at a time.
Thank you for baring your hearts and souls. You are such a wonderful bunch of friends, and thank you for helping to promote tolerance among the differences.  I just luv ya that much more now!!!!!! 
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Keep on keepin' on...
Edited by Shannon! (03/10/06 09:43 PM)
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I'm pagan. I really hate using that vague of a term, so I mostly refer to myself as a Witch, although that can be misconstrued too, and really refers more to a different part of my spiritual practice (yes, I'll get to that) than the actual beliefs. But I'm not strictly Wiccan, so I guess if I want a label, I have to go with what's almost-right instead of just-right.
At the core of my belief system is the feeling that Deity is all-encompassing... that is, that you & I & my cats & all the trees that grow in our yard & so on are all manifestations of a Higher Power. We all have that within us. I do believe in G-d - well, specifically, multiple goddesses and gods - but they are more "human" than the Christian concept of G-d. More powerful, but not ALL-powerful, and not even perfect, just like we are not.
I don't go to church. (Obviously!) My faith requires of me more of an "everyday mindfulness" than a once-a-week meeting. I don't have a set routine for that - some days I bust out the altar and do a full-fledged ritual (observance), other days I just go outside and fully take in the holiness around me. Pagans tend to be more nature-oriented than most, because we have a separate set of holidays that revolve around "the wheel of the year", or the changing seasons. These correspond with traditional farming milestones - the harvest, the planting - but there is also a parallel between the seasons and the God & Goddess.
The "witch" part comes into play when you talk about spells. Yep, I cast spells - but it's not what you think! Drawing a parallel between Christianity and paganism, spells are more like prayer than anything else. You focus on your intent, you send that intent into the universe. That's it. Just like prayer, it's a way of making yourself heard to the Deities, requesting that the powers that be help you along with whatever it is you're trying to do.
I'm really simplifying and skipping over a lot here, but if anyone wants to know more, or wants me to clarify anything, of course you can just ask.  I don't mind questions at all. I'm used to it, hehe. I should also add that paganism has a lot of different belief systems within it, just like Christianity is the "umbrella" term for Protestants, Catholics, etc... so if you bump into another pagan, it's likely that they won't believe *exactly* what I believe. I'm definitely not speaking for all pagans here.
I wasn't always a witch. I was born and raised a Jehovah's Witness until I was 17 or so. When I started dating my first husband, I also started going to his church - Presbyterian - and continued to go until he and I split up. That's when I "discovered" Wicca, paganism, etc in my early 20s, and the nature-centric beliefs really resonated with me in a way that Christianity just never did.
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I had to laugh though, because the other day I was teaching grade six, and out of nowhere came the voice "Yeah, SO what????MY mom's a witch!!" So I had to run to the kid's defence. i know it's a very peaceful practice and the media crap is backward. Anyhow, there i sat, the Christian, defending this kid who had the whole class thinking his mom rode a broom,LOL!
I said it's very peaceful and nature oriented, and spells aren't meant to turn people into frogs.
The one part that I'm not sure about is the potions stuff. How does that work? Do you do potions? What does the star symbolize, and is it a pentagram or no? I know that the upside down pentagram is a symbol of evil and I just, ew, don't want to go there. I kind of am of the belief that satanism is for people who have no idea who they are.(IMHO)
As an aside, guess what my stuffy childhood church was, LOL! Presbyterian. It was just way too...mmm...Reverend LoveJoy for me.LOL!
My little brother is engaged to a J.W. girl, and they've stopped celebrating Christmas. Even on a secular level, sigh....I'd miss it if it wasn't everything I believe in, even.
I'm very open minded as I have said, and have personally read up on almost all religions out there, except for the drink kool aid and kill yourself for the aliens cults.:P
I have been in a Mormon temple(ha ha, no I haven't, what was I thinking. A Mormon CHURCH),got married in a Catholic church, and have attended Presbyterian, Baptist, Alliance, Salvation Army and United services as well. I believe in order to have peace and tolerance we need to be humble enough to see what draws others to their various faiths. Of course, there's not a lot of voodoo, Wicca, or the other non-"mainstream" faiths evident out here.
I want to, also someday, go to both a synagogue and a mosque.
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Keep on keepin' on...
Edited by Shannon! (03/09/06 03:49 PM)
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Shannon,
I am new to the message boards, but was grateful to find your post on religion. It was one of the first posts that I have read. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and it is a major portion of my life. I am glad to know that there are other churches out there who spend time helping others and that you are comfortable with your relationship with our Heavenly Father.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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WELCOME!!!
#251189 - 03/09/06 03:54 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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Mormonism is one of the most family-oriented and committed religions of the world, and i can honestly say that I have never met a Mormon person I didn't love to bits. There are TONS of Mormons out here. I went to high school with a whole bunch of them. Including theeee cutest girl in the school, who was as pure as the driven snow. And nice to boot!
i have been to a mormon service before. the people were so friendly! I even had a Book of Mormon too. However, I am definitely an Alliance Church girl!:) Anything you'd like to share? the most interesting thing to me about your faith is the sealing ceremony. I have read books about that, but not sure if the info is true so I will not post it.
Anyhow, I would be nowhere without my God.:)
PS- we're not tooo terribly far from each other, LOL! I'm Albertan-you know, that big rectangle north of you? LOL!
I've been to Yellowstone, Jackson Hole and other places-seen the Tetons. Love it in Wyoming. Totally God's country. The blessing(tongue in cheek) of our winters, with the beauty of the Utah desert.
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Keep on keepin' on...
Edited by Shannon! (03/09/06 03:57 PM)
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Re: WELCOME!!!
#251193 - 03/09/06 04:06 PM
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Double J
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: High Rocky Mountains ibs-d
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One of the unique things about the LDS faith is that we can be married together for eternity, and just not as husband and wife till death parts us. What I have learned in the sealing ceremony I can not share. Those covenants made there are between my family and Heavenly Father. It was and is a sacred ceremony to us. But because of the sealings my family will always be joined together as a family unit. Gives me something to look forward to … being with my loved ones forever.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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I was raised Christian, baptized and first communion done in the Lutheran church in fact. I've been to many Christian services - Lutheran, Methodist, Jehovah's Witness, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian.
I know that I personally do not identify with the monotheistic religions - Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Though I do enjoy learning about them, in fact I'm taking a Jewish Literature, Culture, and Civilization class this term.
I identify most with Paganism, which as Casey said, is a pretty broad belief system. I don't do spells and such, but I do light candles in remembrance for and for specific thoughts and wishes for people (I don't call it praying, so I never say "You're in my prayers", I say "You're in my thoughts", that has more meaning to me). I want to learn more about practicing paganism, and its various aspects, I have a book called The Solitary Witch, which I haven't had time to read all the way through, and my best friend/roommate, who is also Pagan, has some books as well I'd like to peruse.
That said, I am very open to learning about other people's religions, and it fascinates what other people believe, even if I don't believe it myself. Especially since I am still figuring out what I really believe in.
Hope that makes some sense. 
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Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
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I don't want to think of not being with Trevor and Kayleigh forever, so i just believe that we will be.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Actually, I've been to Lutheran too. they feel very strict to me. My church doesn't guilt you into being good or make you feel like God is a hateful God. And that makes sense to me. Some churches-especially I think the Southern baptist ones, really make you feel like you're not worthy of anything but what they believe, if that makes sense. We believe God is inside us and we have to find our way to talk to Him.
but I'm much like you and have read up on everything from islam to Zoroastrianism, which, by the way, is a cool and ancient one, centred around fire.
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Keep on keepin' on...
Edited by Shannon! (03/09/06 04:33 PM)
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Just wondering why you never write God, only G-d? Is there a rule here on this forum that you can't write God?
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i think of that as a jewish practice - writing the full word is considered taking g-d's name in vain. along those lines, if you're ever pracicing a prayer, there's a different word for g-d than for when you're saying the prayer for real. (hashem vs. adonai - literally "the name" and "my lord.")
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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From what I understand, with the Lutherans, it depends which sub-denomination you are part of. I was told Missouri Synod is pretty strict/conservative whereas the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) is a lot more liberal.
I am Unitarian, however. To serve as a definition of sorts, here's my congregation's mission statement: "We are a liberal, religious community which welcomes all to join in our quest for truth and meaning, dedication to social action and commitment to the Unitarian Universalist principles."
There are 7 principles. I don't remember all of them off the top of my head, but they include caring for our planet and being accepting.
I was raised in the United Church of Christ and a little in the Reformed Church in America. Both are Protestant. The UCC is a whole lot more liberal. If I'd kept going to a Christian church, I'd have stayed with the UCC.
Anyhoo, I think I became Unitarian as an adult because from a very young age, I saw that there seemed to be more than one way to believe. (We lived in the Mid East when I was 5 to 7 years old.) That, and this is really simplifying it, but so long as people mean well, and are trying to improve the world, it's okay. The problem is, some of these religions think they have to force others that theirs is the "right way." And I don't think there is one and only one "right way."
I'm not very eloquent on what exists of my faith, but there it is. Oh yeah, and I'm agnostic.
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I love what you said about being married forever. The "til death do us part" phrase doesn't make much sense to me. This is just a stop along the way and I hate to think that my husband and I won't be together for the whole thing.
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If you're not dead, you've still got time.
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I always love hearing and learning about how others practice their beliefs and am so appreciative when that can be done in an open, safe way.
Our church is funny, we call ourselves Presbyterian with a "little p" because we are so far from what most folks think of Presbyterians.  Our church calls itself "A place for people who have given up on church but haven't given up on God". We try to be a safe place for people who are tryign to figure out the whole "God thing" and we truly strive to be the body of Christ here on earth, treating others and living life the way He would (NOT self righteous or pious, doing no one any earthly good...) if that makes sense at all. He shared the truth of the gospel, and I can never deny that the cross of Christ is central to my life as well, but He embraced and loved people, too, the two should never cancel each other out.
I have been in churches that were very wrapped up in conformity, judgemental and hyprocritical, and it was SO oppressive to me because I am a real person, I can't pretend to be something I'm not. I've learned in my 30's that is just what God wants from me - to be myself in Him, to get to know Him better and be transparent and real enough to truly love others, too, as He would. Another thing I've learned is that everything is a gift, EVERYTHING, so if we can focus on the grace in our lives and be thankful, everything falls into its proper perspective. He is about changing me from the inside out (my heart, through grace), not about me trying to change myself from the outside in. That shift of focus has brought more joy and peace than I ever imagined, in the midst of some tough times.
If any of that makes any sense at all!!
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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Another Witch over here!
I'm currently non-practicing, which means I do not do rituals or celebrate the Sabbats, but I do follow my own adapted Wiccan/Christianity mix.
I've been attending Catholic schools all my life, and therefore, have always been immersed in it (if only because I was forced to attend mass a few times a year). I was baptised, I was confirmed, the whole nine yards and yet never felt a connection with Christianity as an encompassed religion. I see the beauty in it, but I felt as if it were a bubble, and I couldn't get in, you know? It just didn't feel right.
Through numerous sleepless nights and what was (I'll admit it), a rebellious act, I came upon Wicca. At the time, I was ten years old and while still attending a French Catholic school, declared myself a witch to everybody and their dog. Though, of course, I kept it from my parents.
Along the way, I've come to accept the wariness and concern surrounding the art of Witchcraft. To some, it is as silly as the concept of aliens, while to others, it is a deadly sin.
Myself, I believe in a sort of one god, a solitary god (I use the male term, but it is essentially a woman in a man's body, to me), but with many ties extending out into other gods, other magical beings and dieties. From these ties comes happyness, joy, nature, birth, death, and reincarnation. Through rituals, prayer and observance of self, I can keep my life filled with these happy things.
Oh, and I DO believe in aliens!
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Good post Shannon. I am Catholic and am still a practicing catholic. I grew up going to church every Sunday, observing Lent, and going to catechism classes. However there are things that I do not follow in our church. One being confession. I have always felt that I could just get forgivenss from God when i prayed as opposed to a priest. I do not have the same views on the death penalty and abortion like the Catholic church does. I also think that they should allow priests to be married and also allow woman to conduct masses. Sometimes I find the mass to be a bit routine but saying all of that I do strongly believe in God and Jesus Christ as his son. I also pray every day and attend church about every Sunday. Religion plays a big part in my life and I don't know where I would be without it.
That said I love to learn about other religions and have been to a service in a synogogue, Luthern, Methodist, and Baptist place.
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On my first day of using this message board it seems that I have found a site that helps me with ibs-d, and also sends positive messages to my lift my spirit! Although each of us practice our religion in different ways I feel a unity here of the spirit. Thank you all.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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That's true
#251249 - 03/09/06 07:05 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I am Lutheran and go to an Evangelical Lutherin chuch in America. I've been to Missour-Synod, but usually ended up feeling worse about mysef than filled with God's love! So, I changed churches and I love going to the Evangelical church.
The church I go to now is more my style! We can wear jeans, the, the pastor is a "riot" and is loved by everyone...and I always feel special and grateful that I have such an awesome God!! I couldn't make it without Him...or the belief that I will one day be in Heaven with a healthy body and a peaceful mind.
I also attended a Swedish Lutheran College! It really made me feel connected with my ancestors!
I love learning about other religions too. I work at a Dutch Christian Reformed school. Quite different than I'm used to.
I also had a roommate who is Jewish so I was able to learn a lot about the meaning of their traditions...like covering mirrors after a loved one dies. We took a picture of my Nativity seen next to her Manora (sp) at Christmas!
Great post, Shannon! 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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The thing that I remember most is all the exercise I got from going up and down on those kneeling benches and standing up and sitting down and then kneeling again! It seems like Catholics get a real work out at mass!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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...so Donny Osmond could marry me!  I loved Donny! (He's still pretty cute)!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I grew up as a non-religious Jew. For me this meant we did not observe the Torah and its laws and we just did things traditionally and not much of it. In my search for religion I went to a Vineyard Church, a Catholic Church, I looked into being a Witch and I read up a bit on Taoism (and more but I can't remember now as some of it was in Junior High!) There are several sects of Judasim out there...I ended up claiming my Jewish Faith as my own and became religious in college. I am now an Orthodox Jew. What is the difference? I am religious which means I observe the Torah and all its 613 Commandments as best as I can. I believe G-d gave the Jews the Torah as an instruction booklet of the way we should live our lives and that it was not written by man but by G-d Himself. Men wear a Yarmulke to remind them that there is a G-d (so I would say humility in some respect, yes!), and they do not shave their beards because it says not to do so in the Torah. Many would argue that Judaism's approach to women covering their hair is inappropriate and chauvenistic; however, if this were the case ALL women would be required to cover their hair. Unmarried women do not cover their hair as the purpose of a woman covering her hair is intended to remind her to control her sexual influence and to keep that focused and directed where it belongs--within a marriage. In the Torah it tells us that we should only eat foods of the ocean containing scales and fins...so shrimp is not Kosher. It also tells us in the Torah that meat is only considered Kosher if the animal chews its cudd and has split hooves. The way we know if the food is Kosher is if it is supervised by a Rabbi (it is not Blessed though), and bares one of many types of Kosher symbols called a Heksher indicating that it is Kosher.
Did I answer everything?  If not let me know
Cool post Shannon *hugs*
Love,
Sarala
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Oh will you two stop it. You're going to push people's but-
tons and get everyone upset especially the bloody wogs. Of
course there's aliens, ET's that is. Who do you think gave
us the cell phone technology, you know ET phone home. Ha
ha ha. Before you get upset, Im just joking. Talk
away. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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I think what they mean by "til death do us part" is that you won't cheat on, or leave your spouse until one of you actually dies. I don't think it means you won't be together in the next world.
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to say we're the only intelligent life out there denies the existence of a higher power, and therefore makes US the highest power. I don't know about that. If I can still spill my food on my shirt, am I really the best there is?LOL!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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to me the saddest or most wrong thing in life is to have NOTHING to believe in.
Michelle, you embody the Christian I am working to become. this is sort of my "coming out party" for my deep faith in Christ. I've always followed, not necessarily well, but was always so secretive. Ah, what the heck, Go tell it on a mountain!
Anyhow, your pres. church TOTALLY sounds COOL! I'd go there! Nice to know they're not as stiff as typical presbys.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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LMAO!!!
And here I thought I only invited open minded folks, you turkey!
Ha ha!
I hope everyone here IS respectful, though, and if Heather sees any wrong she can definitely give me heck.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I had no idea that unitarian was not Christian. I thought it was a unity of all Christian faiths.
And you're right, it IS arrogant to say everyone else is wrong, and I won't say that, but I definitely will stick with what I believe, and believe it to be the way.
And agnosticism-I was deply there at one point too. In college where I took phiklosophy and had no idea WHAT God was, if He was , or if He was a she or what. I feel much more at peace now, but that's me:)
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I believe in Judaism it's what they do to be polite and humble. Sort of like that's why the Muslims have no pictures of Allah or Mohammed (am I right??yikes! I hope so.)
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Augie,
#251278 - 03/09/06 08:49 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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Our God is an awesome God!!
I got a Sirius radio for Christmas, and Iahve surfed 100 channels, but keep turning to spirit. It's aChristian radio station and I LOOOOVE it.
Anyhow, our pastors are a riot too. I just about pee myself I laugh so hard sometimes. I think that's what God wants to see. Well, not me peeing my pants!LOL!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Actually many Catholics feel the same way as you do concerning confession, and at one time, myself included. However Jesus saw fit to forgive us our sins, and he gave this authority to his Apostles so in confessing our sins to the preist we are simultaneously confessing directly to God. I believe this is from the book of John "…If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them, if you hold them bound, they are held bound" Now in order to forgive (or to hold bound) a man's sins they need to be told just what the sin is.
Now that said, confession is not one of my favorite things to do, but I feel better afterwards.
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Some take the Bible much more literaly than others. Well, 2000 years have passed, I'm sure the rules wouldn't change, but maybe the wording would!:)
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Neat!.
#251281 - 03/09/06 08:55 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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I've heard of Adonai, and El Shaddai, and Yeshua is the Jewish term for my Jesus...well, for the Messiah, anyhow.
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find slightly uncomfortable about Catholicism. though I think the idea of penance would make ME feel better, and maybe I'd yak the preists ear off with my confessions. it might go a little OCD after a while!! LOL!
Anyhow, I also believe that if the Laws of God were re-written today, that birth control would be "legal" per se. I would LOVe to have a big family, but I need to also be responsible and be on the Pill so i have the money to feed the mouths that I conceive, you know? So, I will put my daughter in a Catholic school, and maybe even baptize her(DH isn't in a rush, and he's the Catholic, sort of anyhow) but I will not have more children than I can be utterly rsponsible for.
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Keep on keepin' on...
Edited by Shannon! (03/09/06 09:03 PM)
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I did a faux pas at my DH's step-grandfather's burial mass. I took the Communion, but in MY church, we take it back to our seat and eat it. Man, when the preist said "AHEM" my gig was up!! Well,it's still valid for ME!!!!
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this board is unbelievably positive and accepting. We all commiserate, and we all are bound together by our humanity and the "human stomach condition" LOL!
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You know, I've actully heard of a growing nubmer of non-Catholics who have sought to go to confession when something has been weighing them down.
Concerning the birth control thing, many catholics use birth control methods like the pill and condoms. I don't think IUD's are good since they are abortificants (is that the right word?)
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AHHHHH!
#251289 - 03/09/06 09:20 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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man do I feel enlightened.Thank you so much for sharing with me.
Kosher makes a lot more sense now. I'd always heard it was blessesd by a Rabbi. That's a LOT OF WORK!!
A few more questions:
I think I know that about eating shrimp. Ig uess I break that one, and I eat pork sometimes, but really dislike it unless it's tenderloins. Bleah.
So can you eat chicken and other fowl?
And as far as land mammals go is it only ok to eat beef, or are there other cud chewing mammals that are "kosher"?
have you ever been accidentally fed something you knew wasn't kosher? what was your reaction? I guess that'd be like someone giving me an upside down cross and making me wear it. it'd be awful!
You follow the Torah so well, wow! Awesome.
Also, does the wig look like your regular hair, or is it funky?
And what is the significance of the curls on the mens sideburns?
ps- I read up on Taoism and realized I'm just too much of a control freak for that. LOL! But the funny thing is, my uncle who is a very very heavy pot smoker is taoist. Yeah, he can JUST BE. What a weiner.
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(just like I LOVE the IDEA of communism, but it's not practical for me)but honestly, I'm a space cadet when it comes to that rote memory stuff, and i'd be pregnant in a week,LOL!
Yes, IUDs are abortion inducing. I'm anti abortion for me, but if it's a necessary thing to save lives I agree with it. If I was pregnant as a teen I think I'd have given birth and adopted the baby out. So many families need babies!!!(I won't open the floor to that one though!!!)
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I just wanted to add about the wig thing...Judaism intends that people should be sensatized to certain things including sexuality. In contrat to contemporary culture where the exploitation of sexuality serves to diminish sensitivity, Judaism intends to heighten it. In Judaism, even the attractiveness of a woman's hair has enough sensuality that it is even appropriate to be kept covered!
Some women only cover their hair with a scarf...others only with a synthetic women...and others (like me) with human hair (though I plan to buy a 2nd synthetic wig in the future!). The point is NOT to look ugly...I have BEAUTIFUL wigs! The point is to cover up that which is sacred and use it when appropriate!
*whew* LOL
Foul and birds!!! I don't recall atm how we know if they are Kosher. I know something has to do with whether or not they kill their pray...but that's all I recall atm.
The significance of Peyos (the curls) is similair to the beard thing. Some people (they are called Chassidim--this is a sect of Judasim), believe that the hair by a man's ears (where sideburns grow!), should NEVER be cut! So they grow long and curly (sometimes straight and the men curl them to look nice!) All Orthodox men do not cut their Payos past a certain point leaving some side burns showing at all times!
Did I get it all? If not...keep bugging me till I do
Love you Shannon *hugs*
Sarala
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior and died on the cross so that I may be forgiven for my sins and live eternal life in Heaven. I read my bible, and I believe every word printed in it. Thats just how I am, I have had so many answered prayers, too many to count. I am blessed and God is good to me.
Those are strong words, coming from a strong heart.
I am glad to see others coming forth and explaining their religion. I love to see how others worship/or not. It is very interesting to me and I commend everyone who has the courage/strength to speak about it. Thank you everone.
I do have one question though....Sarala, why do you spell God, G-d? just curious. thanks again.
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Not only did you open up about your own faith but you've helped ME learn a LOT about all my friends here, I love that!
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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i am a christian and believe every word the bible says, i also believe God still performs miracles. I go to what they call a full gospel church lol i guess it would be non denominational but i can wear jeans and tshirts.. they also call it southern gospel, theres a band..and they sing the best upbeat music..its great
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http://www.myspace.com/rachelle423
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Interesting thread Shannon...
I hesitated to participate because I don't know what you mean by close minded to religion. I am not against religion (any religion) for others because I can see the appeal in their being a higher power, and I can see how it would be comforting to have that faith. I am glad for people who have that in their life. I also am jealous of the social aspects of churches, meeting people is harder when you're an adult so the fellowship aspect seems cool.
you said:
"to me the saddest or most wrong thing in life is to have NOTHING to believe in."
I just wanted to say that though atheism isn't a religion, I think it's a beautiful thing to have no higher power to believe in. It forces me to acknowledge that all of my choices are my own (though highly influenced by my community). I have to be as ethical as possible all the time, because there is no one to forgive me (but the people I might hurt or myself, and we're all tough task masters, I'm not that forgiving of myself). And's there's no do-over, I have to do the most I can to have a positive impact this go around. There's a philosopher named John Rawls (sorry if you know this) who said that the ideal way to run the world is to imagine yourself in the worst possible position and make laws and act accordingly. So I try to do that to determine what's right or wrong.
I think it would be nice to have some kind of faith, but I just can't force myself to believe in any higher powers. But I think I'm a happy, ethical person (to the best of my ability) none the less.
Edited by chinagrl (03/10/06 06:39 AM)
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Re: Neat!.
#251323 - 03/10/06 07:06 AM
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jaime g
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 961
Loc: new york city
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actually, and i'm mostly sure about this, yeshua is actually just jesus' hebrew name. "moshiach" actually means messiah.
(from the agnostic/non-practicing pagan/culturally jewish girl who spent K-6th in a hebrew day school. a useful repository of information, if nothing else. )
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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birds are kosher as long as they're herbivores - carnivores and scavengers aren't kosher.
when kosher animals (it includes beef and venison, off the top of my head) are slaughtered, there are specific ways it must be done for the meat to be kosher. all of the blood has to be drained - blood, i believe, isn't kosher. the slaughter rules are also aimed at, i believe, humane slaughter. as much as that's a possibility.
there's also the rule of not eating dairy & meat together - in the bible as not cooking a calf in its mother's milk.
most of the rules about what's kosher can be traced back to what was safe to eat thousands of years ago - scavengers and carnivores were more likely to get you sick, as were ocean bottom-feeders. (the ocean rules, which are described in terms of scales/no scales, also fall along the lines of bottom-feeders - fish with scales tend to not bottom-feed, while crustaceans do.)
there are also arcane aspects of kashrut - some species of grasshoppers are kosher, for example. the list goes on and on.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Lets see.. I think Sarala/Ruchi answered most of the Judaism questions re: orthodoxy.. of which I know a LOT... having grown up going to orthodox day schools and having a cousin who is very orthodox, like Sarala... She covers her hair with a wig, and has a meat only kitchen with 3 exceptions- small storage areas for dairy things (she is allergic to dairy so there is a dish drainer for dairy dishes, a cabinet for them, and a section of the fridge for dairy for her girls and her husband for breakfast cereal, etc). her dishwasher and stove are both fleishig or just meat.
Personally after a lot of thought and research and introspection I belong to a reconstructionist Jewish Chavurah (we don't have a building so aren't officially a shul).. My dad is a religious education who is nationally known and I grew up in his shadow... so I know a lot and did study comparitive religions, which taught me enought o know I love judaism and the traditions, but I wasn't comfortable with the orthodox and their treatment of women in not allowing them certain roles...
and I wasn't comfortable with reform because it goes to all english and things I dont' like- I know hebrew and appreciate it.... and it leaves out the traditions I love.
my personal home would be egalitarian conservative but there isn't one around here.. and I love the people and some of the practices the chavurah does.. like at our sukkor retreat every year we always chose a spot where there is a natural body of water so we can do mikvah outdoors in nature. (and I have led it the last 2 times I've gotten to go).
We do a lot of singing, chanting and use of the hebrew prayers.. we read the torah, but don't require readers to chant it so I can read it if I want and have time... and we do torah discussions/study as a congregation as well, which I enjoy greatly....
Also- the congregation is welcoming of my household which is interfaith- DH is a believer in G-d but not religion after his upbringing (he was raised by a KY southern baptist and a catholic who divorced and lived with other people without remarrying for years!)
he goes with me, but not all the time and doesn't feel a need at this point to convert.. though our kids will be raised jewish and we keep a kosher meat home.. he eats dairy out!
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Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
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Re: my take
#251330 - 03/10/06 07:40 AM
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jaime g
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 961
Loc: new york city
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i think i labeled myself in another post here an agnostic/non-practicing pagan/cultural jew. i think it's accurate. my family is jewish, and though we're not religious, i went, from kindergarten through sixth grade, to a conservative hebrew day school. (judaism is ranked, roughly, from least-religious/strict to most: reform, conservative, orthodox.) so while at home my mom was reading about reincarnation and spirituality, i was learning about judaism every day in school.
synagogue was never a spiritual place for me - i always objected to the idea that wearing a skirt and tights made anyone more spiritual - i was bat mitzvahed, but did it more because it was something you did. after that my family went to synagogue on the high holy days (rosh hashannah and yom kippur - the jewish new year and day of atonement), but, since it really didn't mean anything to me, i stopped going to those during high school. it felt good, liberating - i was being true to myself, and not just going through the motions.
i still love jewish traditions, but sort of the way i love thanksgiving - family brought together around tradition and ritual, a connection to the past, both in terms of human past and our family's history. although i stopped keeping kosher for passover (not eating leavened bread) a few years ago (it was an odd hold-over, along with fasting on yom kippur - things i did mostly because there where 'what you did,' and not doing them indicated weak willpower), i still love the passover seder (a sort of organized ritual meal, like thanksigivng with lots of steps to follow). and i also have a lot of love for jewish traditions and stories - i think it's an attachment to what i was raised with. i used to think, even a few years ago, that being 'culturally jewish' was silly, that it's a religion, not a club. but i've realized that even though i don't think the bible is the word of god, the holidays and traditions are important to my life.
for a very neurotic, second-guessy person, i'm surprisingly comfortable with my agnosticism. it's not an unsure, questing, lost thing for me. i don't know if there's a god, many gods, some sort of force - and i don't think there's any way to know. our consciousness might end when we die, or it might not. and, for me, it doesn't really matter. (i think believing that there's no way to know is most of why i so easily accept this.) i realized in high school that i didn't want to believe in a god who cared if i believed in him - shouldn't he have bigger things to worry about? the existence of god wouldn't change how i live my life - i strive to be a good person, a thoughtful and kind person, to respect people and the world.
i also have always had a deep love for science, and i've found in it the mystery and awe that a lot of people find in religion. (although i do know many scientists who are religious - ken miller, a biology professor from where i went to school, is the go-to man for defending evolution against intelligent design - he's a huge supporter of evolution as scientific fact, and also a devout catholic. there's actually a great article i read this morning in the new yorker about science and religion & politics, and how comparing them and pitting them against one another is totally apples and oranges.) learning about cosmology and particle physics, looking at pictures taken of distant galaxies, fills me with a deep, intense love of the universe. there might be some force behind it all - life and the universe are so amazing - but i don't begin to imagine that it's something i can comprehend.
the non-practicing pagan thing comes from that - the intense mystery and beauty of nature are what i connect to, which is an aspect of paganism, but i don't ascribe actual deities to it. it's definitely a jaime-made thing. all we can know for sure is the world, and so all i can do is try to be as good as possible to people and nature and everything in it. if there is a god or force of any kind who has any interest in what i do, i assume (and really hope) that's what he/she/it/they would want.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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and I mean FRIENDS, I love and value ALL my friends here and I'm so thankful for the internet, I mean where else would all of us with all these different backgrounds and beliefs get to sit down and share this way? We probably wouldn't even KNOW each other even if we lived in the same city because we'd run in different circles and never cross paths. I just think this is too cool...
So there's a question I've been wondering about a long time and would love to ask you all, it is not a loaded question, I just truly would love to know, what are your beliefs/thoughts/feelings about Jesus? And are you still waiting for a Messiah?
If you'd feel more comfortable answering in email I'm fine with that but we are all learning so much from each other I'd love to keep it "open". I just hope/pray no one becomes defensive, because this has been a wonderful discussion thus far! I have no intentions of challenging your answer, I truly just want to know YOUR beliefs/thoughts. THANKS!
Love ya ALL!
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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hoping i can answer as a non-religious jew, since i went to school with all this for six years and am pretty well-versed.
jews don't think jesus was the messiah, so yup, still waiting. i don't think most jews would go so far to call him a prophet, as muslims regard him, but some jews think jesus was a cool guy with some groovy ideas (as eddie izzard would say).
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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I love learning about what other people believe, and I love discussing it as long as everyone can stay respectful and not try to convert me - LOL! - so I don't know about courage, I'm just good at not keeping my mouth shut. Haha.
I've been to Baptist, Catholic, and Presbyterian services, and I went to temple many times with a boyfriend who was Jewish. Out of all the mainstream religions, Judaism struck me as the most beautiful, and it spoke to me on certain levels, but I knew it wasn't enough to make me want to convert.
JW's are a strange bunch. I feel like I can say that, having been there. LOL! It's true - no Christmas, no birthdays, no holidays at all. I never celebrated a Christmas or birthday until I was 18.
Anyway -
Potions are rather Hollywood. I've never made one, and no other witch/pagan/Wiccan I know does either. The closest thing I can think of is that some people do combine various essential oils that have certain "properties" or significance, and dot the mixture on candles when they do a spell/pray. I'd hardly call it a potion, but that's the best I can come up with.
Yep, the star is a pentagram... and no, we definitely don't use it upside-down. I actually found a really good explanation of it on a website, so I'm just going to copy and paste: "The Pentagram, or five-pointed star, is a general symbol of Witchcraft. It symbolizes Humankind reaching outward and inward from our environment (the circle). The five points may symbolize the head (intellect or Air) arms (activity or Fire) legs (Physical Form or Earth) and emotions (Water). The central enclosed area is the Divine or Spirit." It's not only a symbol of the faith, but worn by some as a protection and/or luck amulet.
Hope that helps! And thanks for starting this thread - this is just awesome!
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Sarala got most of your questions covered but here's my two cents.
Like Sarala, I am an Orthodox Jew but unlike Sarala I was brought up Orthodox. My father is a rabbi and a lot of what I've learned came from him.
For me, I try to follow the Torah as best I can as well though I gather from Sarala's posts that I'm probably a bit to the religous left from her. I shave, but I use an electric shaver instead of a razor because of the prohibition of putting a blade to my skin. I do cut my sideburns but only to a certain length. I wear a yarmulke (though I tend to use the word 'kipah' instead) at all times (except for sleeping and in the shower) and it always reminds me of my faith, especially when people ask me if I'm Jewish when I travel around.
Kosher is one of those things which on the surface would seem rather straightforward but really isn't. Like most of Jewish law, the devil is in the details. This, to some extent, is why there are so many different hechshers; different rabbis hold different things; often these differences have to do with Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform.
I have in fact eaten non-kosher by accident, with the most recent case occuring this past year. It's something that I desperately try to avoid, of course, but once it happens, it happens. It's a very bad feeling; like, I beat myself up (metaphorically) because I know I should have been more careful.
One of the biggest parts of daily religous life for me is daily services. I am required to pray three times a day with a quorum of 10 men (called a minyan). Even if I don't make it to the minyan I pray anyway, but I still wish I could make it to a minyan more often. This is where my IBS really makes me upset/angry because I often miss parts of services because I'm in the bathroom. This is especially true on Saturday morning when the services are 2 hours long.
But I suppose I'm lucky to be a part of a religion where we have a blessing after using the bathroom because I get to say it so often!
Anything else on your mind?
Avidan
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Why'd you have to go and make me so constipated?
--'Weird' Al Yankovic, "A Complicated Song"
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Sorry, that was just my wry sarcastic New York sense of
humor coming out. I was very tired and slap happy last night
. I told AC in email last night that I was going to regret
it and catch a lot of flak. Again, I didn't mean to offend.
By the way, how much snow have you gotten up there? How far
north are you in Alberta? -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Yes!!
#251343 - 03/10/06 08:12 AM
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atomic rose
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 7013
Loc: Maine (IBS-A stable since July '05!)
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Quote:
this is really simplifying it, but so long as people mean well, and are trying to improve the world, it's okay. The problem is, some of these religions think they have to force others that theirs is the "right way." And I don't think there is one and only one "right way."
I forgot to mention that as part of what I believe, too - and it's something that's core to a lot of pagans as well. We (well, ok, the other witches/pagans I know, at least) tend to not feel that our religion is "right" and anybody else's is "wrong". We recognize that there are many, many paths to the Divine, and if it works for you, then it's right for you.
That belief was actually one of the first ones that ever clued me in, as a kid, that being a Jehovah's Witness wasn't right for me, because of course JWs believe in converting everyone. I respect that, but it didn't jive with what I believed.
Anyway. Thanks for mentioning that!
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avidan, a question that just occured to me - do you think ibs counts as a medical condition that means you shouldn't fast on yom kippur (and other fast days)? i have a friend with fibro who doesn't fast, and i know pregnant women don't, etc etc. but i developed ibs after i'd already stopped fasting - i imagine a day of fasting would wreak havoc, mostly when you broke the fast. what's your take? (saralah, curious to hear from you, as well.)
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Beth, Are you sure the Osmonds are Latter Day Saints(they
prefer that to "Mormon")? I never heard that before. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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I did ask that question shortly after my diagnosis. The end result is that I do fast in full (the short and the long ones) but that if I start experiencing any excessive pain or bleeding or anything like that then I break the fast.
It doesn't wreak as much havoc afterwards as you may think. I'm just very careful what I put in right after the fast is over.
Avidan
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Why'd you have to go and make me so constipated?
--'Weird' Al Yankovic, "A Complicated Song"
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I'm a PK
#251367 - 03/10/06 09:58 AM
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torbetta
Reged: 01/24/03
Posts: 1451
Loc: New York
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I always hate trying to explain what religion our family is. It's harder to explain that Catholic or the other religions that are easily recognized which I guess is why we have the word non-denominational. My dad is a pastor and we just started going to his church last Easter. My husband's brother is an associate pastor at the church hubby and I practically grew up in. I guess you can say we are non-denominational full gospel. My church's vision is to reach out to those in need. It is very similar to what Michelle wrote and I you can say I'm a born again Christian, saved by Grace by Christ's death on the cross for our sins and his resurrection. We have the whole drums going during worship and have upbeat songs as well as slower worship songs. My church is a lot smaller than the one my sister and in-laws go to. I miss worship at our old church but it's good to be able to listen to the radio or CD's of Third Day and Newsboys that have simalar songs. Zoe loves the drums and dances every chance she can get. I also wear jeans to church almost every Sunday and shorts in the summer!!!
Oh and my dad has to sing Happy Birthday to everyone in the congregation on thier birthdays. Talk about embarrassing.
I meant to add that I've enjoyed reading what everyone has written. A lot of times we hear about differnet beliefs but not fully understand so it's interesting to see.
Edited by torbetta (03/10/06 10:04 AM)
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I don't claim any religion. I think I'm closer to being a pagan or witch like Casey. Although I don't know if I believe in a "higher being." I believe in Carma and being good to people and that everyone should be equal. I believe its ok to be gay or lesbian, I think its ok to be whatever it is you want to be as long as you are a good and kind person. I also don't say "I'll pray for someone" I say "I'll keep them in my thoughts" or light a candle or sit in my garden and focus happy energy to them. I believe in some sort of reincarnation. I believe the better the person we are in life, the better our next life will be. I don't think that we are actually aware of these life's but I believe part of our souls continue on. When I see a pretty flower, I like to think part of my baby's souls or energies were used to create another beautiful thing. I don't have any rituals that I do. I do tend to celebrate most Christian Holidays just because both families are Christian. And I love decorating a Christmas Tree and giving gifts but it has no real spiritual meaning for me. So, not sure what that makes me!!! A good person, I hope!
I have not had any good expierences in Church. In fact, I've been told that I'm a child of Sin and not allowed in a Catholic Church because I was born out of wed lock! I will go to Wills parents little country church on rare occasion, more to make them happy than anything. I'm not comfortable singing the songs and things like that. I guess if I could find a place where I felt comfortable, I'd actually enjoy the sense of community that most people get from Church!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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I am pretty much disenfranchised with the Catholic Church and what it has turned into. In fact, when Tina and I have our religious ceremony in June, it will NOT be done by a Catholic priest (much to the dismay of my parents). I just try to live my life as best I can. I pray almost every morning and thank God for everything I have in life and pray for those who mean the most to me and for those less fortunate than myself. I just disagree with the Church on a number of things such as abortion (although I don't believe its right, I think women should have a choice), birth control, and gays. I also do not like how the Church seems to be a money collector for everything. I think the dioceses should remember their scripture and think of the time when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple. Sorry if I offended anyone but this is how I feel.
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according to most Jews Jesus was a Rebbe or teacher... thats it. he was a learned person. We are still waiting on the messaih and don't think he had anything to do with it?>??
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Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
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Mormon church
#251404 - 03/10/06 12:04 PM
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Double J
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: High Rocky Mountains ibs-d
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The nickname "Mormon, Mormonism" conferred upon the beliefs and doctrines of the early church was used by the original coiners as a scornful epithet, but it is not offensive to the church's members. The official name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But "Mormon" certainly works.
We Mormons believe that Jesus is the son of God, and through His atonement and sacrifice we might be saved as we try to live His teachings and commandments.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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Can I ask why they believe he had nothing to do with being the Messiah? Just curious....thanx!
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Kiwi
IBS-C
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the first christians were jews who believed that jesus was the messiah. not all jews believed him - the ones who didn't went on beign jews and not following his teachings. for jews, the old testament is the entire bible.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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I pack a luna bar, a PB sandwich and water to go to shul. I drink the water no matter what because due to other issues if I don't get enough I dehydrate VERY easily and was given permission from a rabbi to do that a long time ago. Some years I go all day, some years I need to sneak out and go eat one or both of my packed snacks. the decision isn't made by hunger, but by things like being dizzy due to lowering blood sugar (hypoglycemic) and also if my stomach starts to cramp or seriously act up. I always eat at least part of what I pack before I leave the shul so I break fast right after neillah and then go attend the formal break fast and eat there as well...
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Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
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Post deleted by Nelly
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Say Tommy, I presume you grew up in the NYC area. I am
curious, where abouts? In grew up in Valley Stream right
next to the Queens/Nassau county border. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Nice to see another Edie Izzard fan around. I haven't met too many in Oregon. I like the "cool guy with some groovy ideas" way of thinking of it.
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If you're not dead, you've still got time.
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ah yes, i do love him. tend to speak in quotes from 'dress to kill' sometimes. it felt a little edgy quoting a transvestite stand-up comic in a heartfelt conversation about religion, but hey, the man knows his stuff.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Post deleted by Janey
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Janey
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a pagan and an agnostic? I've wondered this for some time. Please educate me!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Something I don't quite agree with you here is where you say your choices are your own. Everyone, regardless of religion makes their own choices, and good or bad, each choice has their own consequences. Forgivness is not a "get out of jail free" card, it is something much more deeper, and shouldn't be considered as a do-over. I also think a person's ethical behaviour is individual and not completely religion based.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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I have been in a similair situation. For reasons like these we have Rabbis to interpret the laws and let us know when we can bend the law! This is a perfect example! The Law is that we should not carry on Shabbos without an Eruv (Avidan, can you expalin this?); however, for the needs of an ill person it is completely acceptiable and no Law is broken. I love it!!!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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I would love to know who your father is (e-mail me if you like!) That is sooo cool!
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Athiests believe there is no higher being--
~nelly~
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Re: eddie izzard
#251501 - 03/10/06 04:32 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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Executive transvestite!
~nelly~
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That's true that everyone makes their own choices, but people with a religious book such as the bible or the Torah often base their choices off of what that book says or guidance from a spiritual leader. I have no book, I have no leader. I don't think that most religious people believe that forgiveness is a get out jail free card, but I do think there's a difference between focusing on the here and now as it is, and beliving in a heaven or afterlife. I never said that other people's ethics were completely religion based, just that mine are completely not.
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Something to consider about the church is that bills don't pay themselves. There are many valid expenses churches have to pay including education and taxes. The church also asks for donations to go to poor nations, missions, and charities.
Also, the church does not hate gay people - hate the sin, but love the sinner...they teach that "...men and women with homosexual tendencies 'must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided'." What is denied to them are "Access to marriage and the formation of sexually active committed non-marital relationships are not options that they consider open to gays and lesbians. The church teaches that persons with a homosexual orientation "are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity," and a life of loneliness and lack of sexual intimacy."
Now, the Church is a 2000 year old institution that does not waver or change with the seasons and fashions. Slowly there are changes being made, but there are many people who think it is too slow, and I think that comes from our society where we want instant gratification in just about everything in our lives. There are things where I think there may need some revision, but I will never turn my back on the church for it moving slow, a scandal, or because the pastor is considered a little boring and not as entertaining as another. I'm certainly not judging you Tommy or anyone else for their opinions, but to every opinion there is the flipside of the coin.
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Thanks for the clarification chinagrl.
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What do you think of the Judeao-Christians who believe in their Jewish religion, but also believe Jesus is the Messiah?
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eddie izzard!
#251515 - 03/10/06 05:07 PM
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melitami
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 1213
Loc: Ewing, NJ, USA (IBS-D, Vegetarian)
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I <3 Eddie Izzard. My best friend convinced me to see his show Sexie when it came through Philly a few years ago, and I was hooked
I'm an action transvestite really, so it's running, jumping, climbing trees... putting on make-up when you're up there!
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Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
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I have a queston about the hair. Why isn't mens hair considered a sensuality that needs to be completely covered? For example, if I think a certain type of short hair cut is irresistable and hot (or long hair for that matter), wouldn't it fall under that category too? I'm not trying to be a smart @ss, it's a serious question.
Edited by Gracie (03/10/06 05:10 PM)
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Can one be religiously indifferent? I do not worship. I do not subscribe to a religion/religious philosophy. I don't waste much time thinking about it. I find it entertaining, at times, I confess, from a "peanut gallery" perspective & I am respectful...but honestly & frankly...I just don't subscribe.
I truly do not care. I think, perhaps, that it is beyond the human capacity, or at least mine. I tend to look at it as a collection of myths & stories & mantras. What do I think "God" is? The word "dog" spelled backwards. Sometimes I think "God" is what humans aspire to be or use as a grand excuse or anchor or mask.
I guess that is a pithy attempt to appear politically correct about the whole thing.
Kate.
Edited by Wind (03/10/06 05:37 PM)
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I believe it was sociologist Emil Durkheim who wrote that some people have an "unmusicality with religion."
To be honest, I fall into that camp as well as the Unitarian camp. I sought out the Unitarian congregation when I moved to Rockford because I'd spent a lot of time bouncing around communities and states and felt I needed to put down roots (in various ways) in my new community.
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See, now I've thought about that because I'd love a way to meet people outside of grad school (not always the healthiest environment)). But my pesky atheism was standing in the way. Drat. But "unmusicality with religion," I quite like that.
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Beth, Pagans believe in many Gods, Athiests don't believe in
any God, and Agnostics doubt the existence of a God, but
aren't sure about it. That's it in a nutshell. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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J82901
#251527 - 03/10/06 07:10 PM
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might be saved or ARE saved? I am asking to be educated, not to offend.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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when I was in elementary school. Olive and my mom used to joke about Jimmy and I getting married (which was highly unlikely because we aren't mormon) but I didn't want to marry him because I thought he had funny hair!
Now Donny was another story...what a cutie...purple socks and all.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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the jewish bible has three parts - the torah (pentatuach), nevi'im (writing of the prophets), and ketuvim (writings, psalms and such) - or "tanach" all together.
this explains some
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Pesky atheism
#251530 - 03/10/06 07:26 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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I've thought about that idea that "god is an imaginary friend for adults." Maybe I just need an imaginary friend who's not into being right and infallible all the time. I could believe in an invisible, imaginary friend that's made of all my present, past and future thoughts. Someone who'll carry my bags and eat lunch with me. And we'll talk of all the good and bad and outrageous and ironic stuff we've seen. No religion, just having a nice conversation and interaction with everything we encounter along the way.
~nelly~
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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I am in Edmonton area, mid Alberta. We had NO snow until march, and have had about....three feet dumped on us in a week now. Yikes. The farmers will be in heav-en!
Where are ya? Are you being whomped with snow too?
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Thank you for all the enlightenment. It does sound very peaceful and positive. And ooh, oil on a candle is hardly batwing stew,LOL!
Anyhow, i appreciate what you said about it being a good post. can't believe how nicely it's gone along so far, and I'm really proud of everyone's open minds.
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Yes, that sounds like my church a ton. And, like I said, we're all drums and rock guitars and jeans too- and I got a Sirius satellite radio for Christmas and LOVE the station Spirit! It's wonderful and I feel like Jesus is always with me!
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Michele,
#251537 - 03/10/06 07:52 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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I am really sorry you've had negative church experiences. And PHBBBBT to ebing a child of sin. Whatever. Some people are so arrogant. You are a child of God.(IMHO!!)
And I agree with you, being gay is not heinous to me either. That's one thing I disagree with the church on.
And your babies definitely are out there somewhere, happy and peaceful.
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Of course bills don't pay themselves. But when you ask churchgoers to help fund a makeover of a church that costs a million dollars that is a bit overboard. Or when you charge people ridiculous amounts of money to get married at a church. What if I was poor and I couldn't pay? To take a quote from the lead singer of the group I love, U2, The God I believe in isn't short of cash.
As for homosexuality, I am not going to get into a debate here but it is not a tendency or a sin. People are born that way. And if priests can't obey the rule of chastity why should people who were born homosexual who do not willingly take a vow of chastity deprive themselve of a fufulling relationship?
Anyway, your opinion is yours and mine is mine.
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Bob
#251539 - 03/10/06 07:54 PM
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TommyNY
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1530
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I grew up in Bellerose on the Queens side of the border...
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I'm sad I didn't get to read your post before you ddeleted it, and I hope nobody was unkind to you. As I said when i opened this can o worm soup, it's for open minds and kind people only:)
So what was it like being a quaker? Here in Alberta, it's just a kind of oatmeal:)
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I'll have to try to stump you on something.LOL!
there is a religion out there called Messianic Judaists, who are basically Jews who believe in Christ. Or in other words, Christians who are still very much in to Judaist practices. Ca fait du sens? (oh no, I'm going Franglais.)
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When I said, "to me the saddest or most wrong thing in life is to have NOTHING to believe in." I meant that you ahve got to have hope and a goal for happiness and making the world a safer, better place. I think inside all of us aught to exist the desire to want more of ourselves, to leave the world better than we found it. I dind't mena you need God per se to believe in, but you need something...hope, the human spirit, yourself even...to believe in.
I hope that clarifies. I don't think Atheists are awful people. After all, I love all of you, no matter what you subscribe to.
Thanks!:)
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Many of the Eastern religions are godless, but Buddhists are some of the most peaceful and happy people in the world.
if you were ever in the mood to look, lol.
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And I just feel like God is hugging me right now.
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I bet you have Gorgeous wigs! I didn't think you'd wear anything "freaky-deaky" as I say,LOL! That's beautiful that you keep everything sacred. I guess in a way that's similar to the Muslim outfits the women wear(brain fart...it's starts with a K I think!) but then again, the taliban went a litttttttle crazy with that one, I think. Sometimes I want to scream "Pull it off and weat a T shirt and Jeans! Liberate yourself!!" Of course, don't ever ask Me to wear a bikini, that's too liberating, lol. So it's ALL relative!
I love you too Sarala! This is so neat learning about everything!
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about the blood, as I can admit I remember that part of Exodus I think it is... anyhow, I also know that pork was more wimpy and would die if being taken anywhere by nomadic peoples. Not very reliable if they don't have sweatglands and sweat to death.
Thanks for the other info though. ig uess it would all come from common sense back then.
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but I didn't really go into my beliefs as much as I did what we do at church, lol. Of course it's a deep faith that Christ is God, and I have had OCUNTLESS miracles. I've nearly died about five times in my life(possibly more if you cout close calls in the car etc.) so I sort of knew from an early age that God was certainly there for me.
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See, my Dh is a totally non practicing Catholic. Went to catholic school k-12, and was even an altar boy, but was scared away for some reason. I'm not sure why and he doesn't want to discuss it. His mother wants OUR daughter baptized catholic,and even SHE never goes to mass. it's all about grandma. And nobody in that family goes to mass. To me that is a bit hypocritical.
That being said I ahve no prob with sending kayleigh to a Catholic school and having her baptized. But it is unfair that I go to my church more and they sort of raise their eyebrows when i offer to baptize her there. Like it's not the real thing.
I have a very strong faith in my heart, and it's not about ritual or anything like that-it's about knowing Jesus is my saviour. I don't go to church all the time either-I am usually compelled to go, and it's almost always when it's communion, oddly enough. unless my church does communion every week.LOL!
Anyhow, my mom insisted I go to Sunday school till I was about 10, and I continuesd well into my teen years uintil we moved and mom didn't help me find a church. I took a hiatus till my DD was about to be born-Christmas 2002, I was 9 months pregnant and imagined being Mary carrying the Christ. I knew I had to go back to church. I never left my faith but did dabble in agnosticism when I didn't think God was listening.
Now I know He is. And now I know that sometimes, I just don't listen to Him!!!
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You guys are so incredibly committed to allthe laws of Moses(and I wonder where they went in Christianity, and who erased them?) But you never give up. there are what, 512 things to remember? Wow!:) How do you keep it all straight?
Oh, and another thing too, si I have no idea why you get Jewish names. I know that God often changed peoples' names when He came to them via a burning bush or an angel for that matter, but, is this why? Just following tradition>?
It's sooooo cool though!! Maybe I'll check out that messianic Judaist stuff again. There's a synagogue here-they have synagogue but believe that Jesus is the Messiah, neat to me.
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For needed repairs and upkeep, I don't think is too much to ask of the congregation for help. I know of other non-Catholic churches that require their members to automatically pay 10% of their income so if the RC church is just asking, then there's no harm in that. If $10 is all someone can afford, then that will do. If someone can't afford anything then that's fine too. I don't know which church you belong(ed) to but all the ones here that I know of usually charge only $50 to perform a wedding ceremony, so in my opinion it isn't too much considering that many people have Parasuco, Diesel, Miss Sixty jeans etc. in their closet that are well over $100 a pair. If your church is charging a ridiculous amount, then I don't think it's fair to paint all of RC church as a whole as money grubbers.
I know, and you know that homosexuality is not an orientation that is chosen, people are born like that. When these laws were introduced eons ago, people didn't know that. If you check the Vatican, they have and are acknowledging some studies that confirm that people are born like that, but as I said, it is not something that can change overnight unfortunately. In my opinion, priests who do not obey thier vows of chastity have no business being priests.
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The only thing to do, is do what you think is right for you and your family. If you haven't done so yet, do in depth research about your faith, and the Roman Catholic faith, then go with what your heart tells you to do. Good luck.
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Same sort of question about the other holidays. I don't really understand much more than hannukah and Passover a little bit, but I always equate that with Easter(sorry, lol, I actually think of eggs. how very secular of me, the holiest of MY holidays)
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I actually feel great where I am, but don't have any qualm raising my daughter in a Catholic school with a Protestant church. You ahve to be Christian either way. It's whether you want it watered down or ritual intense, basically, you know? If I can believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost and nobody else, I'm happy. I wasn't raised with the saints or the rosary or the eucharist or mass etc, so the symbolic stuff aside from the Communion and baptism feels weird to me. However, it's still great, and I'd be glad to expose Kayleigh to it.
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I to see the beauty and sanctity in Nature. and we believe in the fact that God is in everything, especially nature, and little kids. Innocence and purity and sweetness.
By the way, what IS a bar or Bat mitzvah? I get the he-her thing..but is it like a Catholic pre-teen's confirmation of dedication of a life to Christ?
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I can't believe the Church there in the US would say such a thing to you! In my RC church there are unwed mothers attending church, children born out of wedlock, poor, rich, middle class, non-catholics, homeless people. Everyone is welcome, and no one is turned away.
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poochibelly
#251562 - 03/10/06 08:59 PM
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Double J
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: High Rocky Mountains ibs-d
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As a "Mormon" we believe that we are not automatically saved. We are saved when we try to emulate the life of Jesus Christ, and live the commandments that He taught. Of course I will never be equal to my Savior, but while trying to be like Him I am becoming a better husband, father, and neighbor. It is through faith and good works, and striving to be like my Savior, who loved even the sinner, and taught that we are all God's children that I can be saved. I also understand that I must seek repentence for sins committed and forgive all that might have sinned against me. Certainly I will never be as my Savior, but I can continue to try to be, and each day be just a little more worthy of His love.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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i've always wondered that as well.
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You're welcome
In my elementary and high school, there were a few non-catholics there because their parents wanted them to have a Christian upbringing, not necessarily RC though. The public school system leaves religion totally out of their curriculum.
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we do have a LOGOS Christian program and a Christian school which you can choose to put your kids in. I have had the privilege of subbin in the LOGOS program, but it's very much a whimpy version of Christian school(not that I was raised in catholic or christian schools,lol) but is still nice. We have lots of options. Our public and Catholic systems are both public systems here, if that makes sense. I do love teaching LOGOS and seeing God in the kids eyes. it's beautiful.
My little brother and maybe my sister too(half sibs) went to Catholic school even though they were Alliance. I think it was good for them.
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I am a big geek and love to read and research. One of my areas of theatre research is non-Western theatre, so it is important to me to know about religions of all countries. It has led to some really fun experiences, like going to a feast to break fast during Ramadan with my Muslim classmates. I had studied Islam in undergrad, but seeing it in practice was fun for me. I have also studied Chinese and Japanese theatre extensively. Did you know that one of the main forms of Japanese theatre (Noh) started as an advertisement for Buddhism? One of my best friends is considering becoming a Buddhist priest actually. I studied Confucianism in undergrad as well in an honors class- poor Confucius had NO IDEA he would be turned into a religion. In high school one of my best friends was fairly conservatively Jewish (more than her parents, less than Sarala) so she taught us a lot about Jewish tradition as well. I even had a pagan roommate! So I've learned a lot about a lot of religions.
Unfortunately, even if they don't come with a god, per se, they always do come with a higher power, and I just can't believe in that. It's not for lack of education... I'm just missing the ability to have faith.
Have you read the Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet? I *love* those books.
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I have noticed in your and several others postings, God is always spelled, G-d. Why is that? What does that mean?
I have seen this for a long while and always wondered.
This answer is big to me, I have tried to understand it. Would you plese explain it to me? Thank you so much.
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I definitely think it's important to think about people other than yourself when making life decisions and not be selfish. The thing I haven't figured out yet is what to do when person A thinks the world would be a better/safer place in an entirely different and opposite way than person B. Most people don't set out to harm others, and even the extremists really believe they're helping (even if we don't agree). For instance, I know that one of my most fundamental beliefs is that people should not eat animal flesh, and that most people don't agree. I also know that I can't convince them I'm right, and they can't convince me they're right. I don't know what to do about it though, other than let it go and be glad I'm not adding to the problem.  To make matters more confusing, I don't believe in faith, but I also know science is incredibly biased and unreliable as well. Sometimes I wonder if I even believe in the idea of *reality*!!
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LOL look at me trying to recruit you to something, ha ha! And not even Christianity.
anyhow, I ahave read the Tao of Pooh. that's when i went through a bit of an agnostic time in my life, and tried very hard to "just be!" Dones't work for me, but it was so cool. Of course it was back in my pot smoking philosophy reading days.
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My husband and I have always had a pink unicorn named George who we call upon to vote as a tie breaker when we argue about things. Similar idea.
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Now thats getting into a whole Patonic debate about the shadows on the wall and reality, and sometimes, i think alternate is better than reality! My 3 year old has it right. Dora the Explorer is always at my house eating our "rollup cheese" and playing "jacks" with us. (rollup cheese is cheese slices, jacks are playing with coins) And you knowk its so entertaining to be out of it.
LOL!
I taught a student who on some occasions would not work if you didn't refer to her as whoever she was that day (Darth Vader, harry potter, a unicorn...I added in a few and had her convinced she was working like a wildebeest)
And people wonder why I love to teach special ed. You want to wham your head against a wall every day but I wouldn't trade that insanity for much of anything!:)
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Are you thinking about a burka? The whole body costume strict Muslim women wear? Or just the headscarf, the hijab?
To me it's all the same, from the mini-skirt to the burka. As long as women are oversexualized by society and can be blamed for being attacked or raped for their clothing it doesn't matter what they wear to me. I think it's all about choice. People should wear what they want to wear and if people think impure thoughts that's their fault, not the wearer. Nobody can control what everyone else does, nor should they have to try to. It would probably be much harder to reexamine these relationships and the power dynamic than simply telling women to not "invite trouble" or go out after dark, but I think it would be the ideal, fair thing to do.
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Fun. I have a degree in philosophy, so I enjoy that type of thing! Of course, Plato still believed in that darn higher power. It's not until you get to existentialism and Sartre and stuff that philosophers finally stop worrying about it. But I was much more into social political/philosophy, ethics, and mind body theory than I was with the nature of the soul and so forth (I know, a total surprise ).
I dunno if I've left my philosophy phase, though marijuana makes me sick (physically, and watching people be so stupid when they're on it). I was never much for mind altering drugs.
It's totally wicked that you had a student that insisted you call her a wildebeest. I think I am in love with that child. What an imagination. Isn't it sad that we make that go away in order for people to be "adults?" I spend a lot of my time in my classroom (I teach acting to college students) training my students to learn to imagine and play again. It's very rewarding, but some of them fight me tooth and nail, they're way too self conscious now to just let go and imagine their someone else. It's sad.
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And that's because the supreme court just ruled that the kirpan dagger is part of the religious garb of the Sikhs and is allowed to be worn to school.
Whoooops, what a faux pas of me, mixing up my religions!
But the normal burka itself isn't bad, it's the ones where they have little eyeslits and barely that, the ones that the taliban insisted on that go past the ankle,...it seemed to ME to be SO VERY degrading to women, rather than keeping us holy.
I agree with your argument though about woman being sexualized and it DOESN"T matter what we wear.
By the way, the hijab, I think is quite beautiful. A nice elegant statement, according to my Canadian way of life. I would think it's awfully hot though, to wear all the time, in the hot desert countries.
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Edited by Shannon! (03/10/06 09:52 PM)
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http://www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=livingroom&Number=251206&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1
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Now I'm just a peoplephile.LOL!
Yes, I was a super imaginative kid too and love every minture of thinking of it. i encourage it in everyone. it makes life so much more fun and authentic, you know?
Ps- hate to admit but I haven't really read up on the existentialism much yet but think I know the premise? And Sartre, never got to him. But I did like the nichomachean ethics!! And Edgar Allan Poe.(objection, irrelevant.)
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I studied Confucianism in undergrad as well in an honors class- poor Confucius had NO IDEA he would be turned into a religion.
LOL! I remember thinking this as well; I studied religion as part of my philosophy minor. I don't know if you read anything by Huston Smith for your religions courses (The Illustrated World's Religions book is the first one that comes to mind), but I love him and I got meet him at conference when I was an undergrad. That man practically glows - he's just so amazing in his writing, his speaking, his ideas.
Quote:
Have you read the Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet? I *love* those books.
Yes! I love these books as well! I lent my copies to a friend and never got them back. I hope she's still enjoying them!
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I think I love you guys. Both of you rock philosophy! I really am enjoying what I've read. It's interesting to see the discussions move from religion to the philosophy of religion. It's inevitable though, isn't it? You can't argue religion since it's based on beliefs, but you can philosophize about it forever.
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I too believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and I too believe every word in the Bible (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth ). Without God, I wouldn't be where I am now...I am so thankful that I KNOW Him not just as someone you read about in the Bible but as my heavenly Father who loves me more than anything.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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You're a good person to debate Gracie. You are very knowledgeable. I don't feel like talking about this anymore because its just one of those topics where you can keep going around in circles, you know? But it was fun having the discussion with you!
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messianic jews- ARE NOT JEWS! They are Christians by the very tenant that Christianity believes in Jesus and Jews do not!
Sorry, pet Peeve because someone who I had issues with for jumping around from one chiurch to another converted to judaism and then started going to a messianic jewish church and tried to tell me what a terrific Jew she was still!
Anyway... there are 613 biblical laws. Many orthodox follow all that apply to them (some are for the high priests, some only for women and some only for men.) I don't so I am not the best person to answer this.. though I do follow more of the religious laws then a lot of others I know.
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Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
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so I can have a roof over my head!
An Eruv is a religiously marked and blessed area. It is set up by congregations to mark an area around the synagogue most commonly in which people can carry things outside their homes on holidays and shabbos. The biggest reason is to help families with young children and those who live close to the shul get around and have what they need.
The illness thing has allowed my parents to live outside the area they would have otherwise for years- mom due to health can't walk far, so the rabbis gave her a dispensation to allow dad to drive her on shabbos.. adn when we were kids we were included in that... so it made a huge difference.
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not Jews as they have a major religious fundamental difference of oppinion...
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Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
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Re: Tommy
#251598 - 03/11/06 05:43 AM
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Johnny T. Reb
Reged: 07/09/05
Posts: 987
Loc: Lake Linden, Mich in the U.P. IBS-C
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Tommy, Well what do you know, pretty darn close. I think
this makes five former Long Islanders on the boards. I lived
in VS from 1958 to 1972 when I went to Rutgers. Thanks for
replying. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Hi Shannon, I kind of thought you were teasing me, I just
wanted to make sure. I live in the Upper Peninsula of Mich.
right near the south shore of Lake Superior which gives us
tons of lake effect snow. This year we've gotten a bit over
270 inches. We don't even use snow shovels, we use what are
called snow scoops. Well, that is those of us who don't have
snow blowers. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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This idea of imaginary friend may just be something that you all are using to express your own thoughts/feelings, but please allow me to just interject quickly... the Lord is not my imaginary friend! There is no "real-er" presence in my life.. not my husband, not my kids. There is a verse in Romans that says, "God sent the the Spirit of His son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out "Daddy, Father". Isn't that beautiful? I don't have an intimate relationship with my earthly father but through Christ I do with my heavenly Father and it is beautiful and REAL.
I'm sure that is hard for you to understand and I am not trying to sound "defensive", not at all, but just as I have learned from all of you, I hope you can learn from me too... imaginary friends sound cool, but He is not one.
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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If there were no church for me to attend or no organized religion at all... gosh in some ways that might be a GOOD thing, under times like persecution (as in other countires right now) Christians grow even truer/more devoted. I pray that would be the case for me. Actually, I know it would be... because this relationship does not rely on my faith in Him, but His faithfulness to me. So it's not at all about my church, that just happens to be part of the way the Lord calls us to worship and serve as a body of people. But the relationship is personal, Christians understand that we have direct access to God with no further need for a mediator like a priest or Rabbi, though teachers and leaders serve a wonderful purpose - but the core of it is my heart and His heart. And He has truly changed my life, thanks for bringing that up Gigi. I could write out all the ways but it would take a novel .... "were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to recount". (Psalm 40, one of my favorites!)
I grieve that so many here have been treated badly by others in the name of "church" or "God" or even "Jesus". It breaks my heart and for what it's worth (not much I'm sure) let me just say that I'm sorry, if you read about Jesus life He did not treat people that way. The only people He ever spoke "rudely" to were the religious hypocrites/pious leaders of the day who mistreated those who tried to follow them. So anyway... for what it's worth, consider that an apology.
Thanks to everyone for being so open and from what I can, so kind and respectful too! This is priceless!
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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what is PK? i must be missing something? lol
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http://www.myspace.com/rachelle423
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Oh goodness. I was just joking (and I'm sure Nelly was too). We weren't trying to say it was equivalent or at all the same thing as people's faith in a higher power!
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I lack faith, but I have NO lack of interest in other people's faith! Its very cool that you got a minor in philosophy. I loved my degree. People act like it's impractical, but it really teaches you how to argue and reason in a way that no other major does.
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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What did you get your degree in instead of philosophy? And it's not too late... maybe you can be one of those women who goes back and gets another degree after she's retired. I think that would be a great way for people who love learning to keep their brain moving (instead of, say, golf).
I don't think Poe is irrelevant at all. Every writer has a certain philosophical take on the world, and his is extremely strong.
And I have to admit, I have forgotten a lot of the specifics of each philosopher. I can call up a general understanding, but unless it's someone I loved (like Kant, or Dennett, or the communitarians) the complexities of their argument are totally gone. I guess my brain filled up with other things in the past five years.
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for boys, a bar mitzvah, for girls a bat mitzvah (they literally mean son or daughter of commandment, and can be used as a noun, for the person or event, or a verb - i got bat mitzvahed at my bat mitzvah, and i'm now a bat mitzvah), is the religious transition into adulthood. at 13 (sometimes 12 for girls - and keep in mind that in mor religious circles girls don't have this at all) you become an adult in the eyes of the religion, having to follow all the laws for adults. it's a ceremony in which you read from the torah or haftarah (the companion reading to that week's torah portion) for the first time. and at least in the conservative/reform world i grew up in, have a big party afterwards. they can sometimes get ridiculously expensive - dj, decorations, food - almost like a wedding, or a really shnazzy sweet 16.
hope that helps - let me know if there's more to explain.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Excellent idea!! BF and I alsway blame it on the dog. Like who left this mess? I blame the dog. Why are we arguing? Blame the dog.
I ask for a show of hands and the dog sides with me, but only if I'm quick enough to count them first.
~nelly~
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I'm an atheist and think it'd be easier if I were a believer and I wouldn't feel so left out of stuff. I identify strongly with people who are left out for this reason. I was raised Quaker but never believed, not even when I was little, but had to go to Quaker school for 10 years and had meeting for worship every Wednesday, where we sat in silence for an hour and sometimes shared what we were thinking of. It could have been worse because I think as an atheist I think I'd have been hating life at Catholic school or at a Jewish day school.
So I can talk about Quakers a little. The Quaker religion teaches simple living, non-violence and acceptance of others. It doesn't seek to convert. They're called the Society of Friends, and believe you can practice where you want to and don't have to attend a Friends' Meeting to be an active member. Our school took part in non-violence resistance and selfless work for others like silent protest at the South African Embassy during the period of apartheid, letter writing campaigns for amnesty int'l, and serving meals and collecting for the homeless. Giving is a major theme, and I remember being encouraged to volunteer for a cause I believed in at school from an early age. You might remember Quakers in history for their help in running the underground railroad. You can still visit some Quaker homes with secret rooms for hiding running slaves in eastern Maryland.
Afterwards, in high school, I got along great with my friends from Wicca, but I'm not a joiner or a believer so I was left out of the whole higher being thing. Most of the non-religious people I've met act like better Christians than the evangelical protestants I've met, which makes me deepen my conviction that one doesn't need organized religion to be a fantastic person. I've heard terrible things said to people in the name of religion and I believe being religious doesn't mean you are a good person, and am convinced some very evil people hide behind religion specifically to do awful things. I think money, power and status should have no place in religion, things like hierarchy of rule, collections, and pomp and circumstance. I try to be ethical, a good person, and give of myself when I can help, and to paraphrase Chinagrl's excellent post, feel that I am accountable to myself so I better get it right.
~nelly~
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~nelly~
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you shouldn't feel that not believing in a higher power shows a lack of some ability. i don't believe in a higher power, and i find it comforting - i rely on myself and the world. it's reassuring. there's nothing wrong with us, nothing lacking. this is just how we see the world. if you feel like something's missing in your life because you don't believe in a higher power and other people do, that sounds like there is room in your life for some sort of 'faith'. but if you feel like your heart is whole, so to speak, embrace that and love it, and don't apologize for it.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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chinagrl, i'm curious what you mean about science being biased and subjective? when it's done right, what i love is that personal belief doesn't come into it - although it's more about politics than religion, you should read the article in the current new yorker about science and bias. it's really interesting. (and depressing about the current state of things, but still.)
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Oh, no, I don't feel I'm lacking (I was just acknowledging that a lot of people in this thread do). I've been trying to walk the fine line between stating what I believe in as I believe in it and not offending anybody. I do wish sometimes I could believe in that stuff because a church seems like a good place to make friends (like I've said), but I think there are lots of advantages to being an atheist. I've just been avoiding detailing them because I didn't want to offend anybody.
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gotcha. i'm approaching this thread with the thought that i'm being as explicit and impassioned about my position as other people are about theirs. i know, elsewhere on these boards, i sometimes feel weird because so many people proclaim their faith in their signatures, but it's hard to do that for agnosticism. i think my beliefs are as valid as anyone else's, and hey, this discussion is our chance. i also don't want to give people the impression that being an agnostic or atheist means we have this big hole in our lives where religion should be, because for me, that's definitely not the case.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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Re: Oh yes. :)
#251621 - 03/11/06 07:27 AM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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So have I. It's a real highwire act trying to explain the benefits of being an atheist to believers. In the same way religion adds so much to their lives, atheism adds so much to mine.
~nelly~
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Well, I took a philosophy of science class and I read lots of articles that shaped my point of view. The basic arguments are there's no way that science can be unbiased because the very hypothesis that scientists come up with to test are biased- the questions we think to ask in any age, the way the experiments are designed to answer them, the way the data is interpreted. The minute you stick a human in there, you introduce all their preconceived notions (on a subconscious level, most scientists try hard to be objective, but it's just not possible for a human to be objective). One of the classic examples is that (reputable!)scientists spent forever trying to prove that women were less smart than men. They tried to argue it was because women's brains were smaller, they tried to argue that the difference in hormone levels meant women's brains didn't develop as well, they designed IQ tests that were biased towards subjects men got more of in school, etc. Finally, eventually, they realized that the very hypothesis was biased and they were never going to prove it (although the head of Harvard just tried to dredge that same theory up again!). We look back and laugh at some of the scientific theories that people had in the past, and surely people will do that with some of ours as well. I think science can give us some general rules about how the world works, but theories are always being discarded and overturned, and causes are generally proven (the data is almost never 100% in support of the eventual declared cause, just mostly) so it can't be considered objective fact. At most it can be true for here and now.
Plus, Hume argues that cause and effect is a myth, because things never happen exactly the same way every single time. We can predict based on expectations, but we can't guarantee it will happen like we think it will.
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I also wanted to address this...but couldn't quite come up with the words as eloquently as you!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Yeah, I had an earlier post where I detailed the advantages I found, but they were read through the lense of religion (as if I was saying religious people LACKED those things as opposed to just saying what my lack-of-faith GAVE me). Part of the problem is that I don't take this stuff seriously (sorry guys) because it's not a part of my life, but it's the central concern for other people. See for example what Nelly and I thought was obviously a joke and the concern expressed because of it. And I don't want to start an inquisition.
Edited by chinagrl (03/11/06 07:34 AM)
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Yes!-nt
#251626 - 03/11/06 07:34 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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~nelly~
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No way!
#251630 - 03/11/06 07:43 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Did you grow up in Utah?
I thought Jimmy had weird hair too (sort of what my new do looks like)  .
I can't believe you're mome knew Olive. Did you ever meet Donny? Oh my, one year I refused to wear anything that wasn't purple! And they called it "Puppy Love....."!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Yes it was a fun debate.
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A hierarchy in religion is needed just like we have hierarchy out side of church like government, PTA committees, etc. If there is no leader then kaos, lawlessnes, and different interpretations of law might result. The collections are to help the churches pay for expenses, including taxes and education, and they also give to charities, missions, and poor countries.
The pomp and circumstance you are talking about is about exalting and giving praise to the Lord.
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You have a very eloquent way of describing things Gracie, but I think Nelly was just stating her beliefs. It's totally cool that you disagree, but I think Nelly deleted her post exactly because she didn't want to debate about it. I see this thread more of a share what you believe, ask questions kind of thing, not an argue about what's right or not post. That could easily get pretty dangerous.
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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I know what they are. I think we'd be better off without them, is what I believe.
~nelly~
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I dunno... the theatre person in me sure does love some pomp and circumstance.
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Yes, we are all just clarifying and defining. I am of no threat to anyone else's belief systems, and I feel other beliefs are of no threat to mine. No harm taken!
This thread was a good way of learning about other people's beliefs, especially those who normally don't make theirs known. It's interesting to see how some people define their religion as they belive it exists.
I'm glad I got to learn a little about some of you and a little more about others. Who knew there were so many Wiccans!!!
~nelly~
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~nelly~
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I wasn't disagreeing with what she said. Some people ge the wrong idea about certain things in the church, and I was clarifying what they are for.
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...like a hotdog.
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***********************
If you're not dead, you've still got time.
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went off on a tangent and started thinking about them as well. Not meant to offend you. They are Christians, of course. 
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Keep on keepin' on...
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It is basically the same thing as the Catholic confirmation bu they don't have a big party usually.
Must feel pretty cool to have that party though!
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with a desire to uphold the roots from whence they came.
I really am sorry if you read my post before as Messianic judaists being Jews-I didn't mean that at all. Of course, any Christ believer is Christian.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Michelle
#251659 - 03/11/06 10:26 AM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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yes, He is more in our hearts than anything, for those of us Protestants anyhow. I think that's why we tend to church hop till we find a place that fits us. And I like that we ahve that freedom here.
I think I willbe going to church tonight. And no, I'm not a seventh day adventist...we just ahve a MASSIVE congregation and three styles of sermons to choose from.
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And if you're not, don't look!LOL!
Sherwood Park Alliance Church
It doens't appear that this is a church that's huge in the States, but here in Canada, it ranks up there with the Catholic, the united and the Pentecostal churches in size.I wonder if each region has different churches.
And I still want to go see a "Black" church. they have so much passion and so much fun!! Nothin' like that here though. We do have first nations churches though. In Canada, it's not polite to call our First Nations people Indians. In fact, it's quite the insult, and only THEY may refer to themselves as such. Sort of draws a parallel to the US in a way!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I get so used to that word being thrown around that I take it for granted that people know what I meant. Sorry about that.
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the Quakers sound like kind people.
I agree, there is a lot of corruption among some ppl who call themselves Christian. My mom will never return to Church because my Dad used to bring my stepmom along to church with me and Mom when I was a kid. You can only imagine how mad my mom was.
And the most important thing is to live your life as a good person and be positive, peaceful, loving and helpful. the things done in the name of the radical and IMHO INSANE sects of islam are disgusting. I don't want to go there, but I also know Islam is not what this small group of people practice.
thank you for re-posting.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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yes, although 12 is such an awkward age - mine was actually really rough. a few months after my mom remarried, and jr high was so hard for me. ech. but yes, a lovely idea.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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That's when mysingle mom started going out drinking and bringing strange men home. Guess it was time(when my sister was 7 ) to start showing us what promiscuity was. She also was taking a course, so we were very neglected at that point. Always had food and shelter, but...from that point on it was seldom that we got a lot of attention or love. Sniff, poor me.
And I was very badly bullied and my mom did not care or protect me or even attempt to help me. Sniff.
And yes, she's still in my life, and we ahve a good relationship now that she's not my provider. You search deep within yourself(I found God too) to help you get through.
hugs for those miserable teen years. PS- high school was the BOMB for me. i was popular, went to school had a job and boyfriends gave me that love my mom couldn't. You never Saw a girl so boy crazy!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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now I wonder how many are out there IRL, you know?
And I'm happy to see that Wicca is much more "light than dark" and very peaceful and beautiful actually.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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if you want to e-mail me, I'd love to understand how not believing adds to your life. it's hard to wrap my brain around, but as you can tell, I won't judge you. You're all very dear to me, and I wouldn't ever want to lose that.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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i think that's great!
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and therefore science is biased.
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maria
#251675 - 03/11/06 11:36 AM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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It is fascinating. i haven't read in a while, but I did take three philo courses, and am always willing to have an open minded debate. I do get a kick out of people who get SOOOOOO MAD when they discuss this stuff. i can discuss philosophy, politics and religion very calmly even though i ahve firm beliefs in all three. I am very willing to listen to the other side. In fact, i believe that's what makes me a great teacher. (I'm no Socrates, but hey...I'm also no Greek!)
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Eh, you wouldn't want to be Socrates. He was such a pain in the butt that they killed him. Nobody's ever going to want to kill you for being a pain Shannon.
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right!
#251677 - 03/11/06 11:40 AM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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It's a different form of logic and it's great. i actually had a minor in philo for the second yearI think, of my BA degree. I never finished my degree, but had a major of Psych with a minor in English, or something like that. Or maybe I had a double minor-the second year zI majorerd in Engliush and minored in Psych and Philo...either way, I am pretty good at "getting" people. LOL!
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hmm...why?
#251678 - 03/11/06 11:48 AM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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Well, when I first wwent into college(that's another word for college here in Canada, LOL!) I wanted to eventually become a child psychologist.
Then as I delved into my courses, I really enjoyed English(and was always just really a good writer /reader /interpreter) and Philo and Psych and Anthropology. But once I got to my 2nd year of my transfer degree in BA, I wanted to become a journalist.
Ironically, that summer, when i had time to think it over, Princess di died. it changed my view of journalism, and I saw it as so cutthroat and I'm so peaceful.
Then that same summer, a friend suggested I become a teacher. She said special ed needed teachers. (AND A LIGHT WENT ON IN MY HEAD!!!)
it's my passion, and I'm just waiting for my own classroom to PROVE how much I love it. I grew up in a school that had a lot of disabled kids, and they never scared me. I just wanted to help kids my whole life.
And, now that I am a substitute teacher, and have had the chance to teach in my own classroom this fall, I know that eventually, i still do want to be a child psychologist. I was just one of those kids who had to check it ALL out to see what I needed to be. And if I never make it to child psychologist/school counsellor, I'll still be totally fulfilled helping special kids.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Brevity? what brevity?
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Keep on keepin' on...
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i won't whine any more. HOw in tarnation do you all drive? plows out 24/7???
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Tommy/Bob
#251682 - 03/11/06 12:06 PM
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Janey
Reged: 10/25/03
Posts: 1716
Loc: Maryland
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DH grew up in Queens, Sunnyside (I think). Is that in Queens? My memory isn't what it used to be. He moved out to Long Island as a teenager.
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Janey
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We lived in Japan and somehow my mom knew Andy Williams and Pat Boone and we all became friends with the Osmonds. We went to the concerts and these girls would be convulsing in tears because they saw the Osmond brothers. It was hilarious!
Olive was a lovely woman though my favorite brothers were Wayne and Merrill. They are a lovely family.
I tried to write them when Olive died but I suppose it was so long ago, they don't remember?????
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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I fast...for faith based reasons and have gone a week without food...my onlu consumption is liquids. I have done well (I am a "C") and suffer very little even when coming off of the fast. I am careful though. I believe that God has me covered during these times.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Yep Sunnyside is in Queens. Nice area, very Irish.
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** I hope to not offend anyone by my religious views**
I was raised as a Catholic -- by non-religious parents (they thought it was the proper thing to do to send me and my brother to a Catholic school). I made my first communion and had my confirmation. The Bishop that confirmed me took my hands and told me he knew I didn't beleive and that he'd never see me in his church again. He was right. I never believed any of it and my dad always told me that the bible was written to sell books and make money. He always told me how corrupt the church was too. It has actually come out in my home town that there has been numerous religious scandals dating back decade so maybe he knew something nobody else did?
As a teenager, I went to a public high school. A friend and I created a bit of an uproar as we made them stop saying "Our Father" at the beginning of every day over the loud speaker. We thought that there was no place for religion in a public school. Our principal and some teachers were horrified with us. But I'd do it again today.
I don't consider myself religious AT all. I don't pray or go to any religious place of worship. I try to be a good person, don't lie, cheat or steal and try to do right by my own conscience.
I honestly doubt there's a higher power. There is power in all of us but I don't think there's this one power to watch over all humans. Nope. I guess I'm more into the belief in the scientific big bang theory.
The closest thing I have found to a religion that I "somewhat" agree with is Buddism. But I honestly don't know enough about it. I know bits and pieces here and there from my yoga and meditation practices.
I don't want to offend anyone because people's beliefs are so dear to them and I am certainly not someone who can say what's wrong and right. I think if religion gives you comfort, then there is no harm in that.
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I truly believe if your childhood experiences with religion are good and hols true for you, then you stick with it, or go back. in your case, uh, sounded like it was very "phony" to you and with your family. Yep, don't blame you at all for walking away.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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To all those who inquired/commented...
The roles of women in Judaism are very misunderstood. Here is a lecture that I hope all interested parties will go and listen to. It is called:
Our Bodies Our Souls Part 1 (click on listen free) and part 2
by Heller, Rebbitzen Tziporah
Here is the synopsis of the lecture: "Finally, an open and honest look at the role of women in Judaism. Rebbetzin Tzipporah Heller lays all the cards on the table with unabashed candor - and a refreshing touch of humor. Sensitive topics like male-female dynamics, modesty, motherhood as a career, and female exploitation are all approached openly and thoroughly. She also explains women and the rabbinate, women and minyanim and the purpose of mikvah."
Go to AISHAUDIO.COM to hear this lecture for free.
I would love to dispell any myths you might have myself but this is not the forum for it.
*hugs*
Sarala
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Formerly known as Ruchie
Edited by Snow for Sarala (03/11/06 09:50 PM)
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Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonement. The Torah says "Afflict yourself" and we know this to mean "fast" from The Talmud and from our tradition and the Rabbis. These are some places to look this up: "Numbers Ch 29 vs.7", "Leviticus Ch 16 vs.29-30" and Leviticus Ch. 23 beginning vs 26 and onwards.
This is the reason why we fast! HTH! *hugs*
P.S. All the holidays are in the Old Testament except for Chanukah and Purim. Chanukah you know about...and Purim you can find in the Book of Esther.
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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but I just wanted to say that this was a really fun thread to read! (And yes I read all of it... holy cow this is a HUGE thread!!!) I actually learned a lot about various religions and it was fun to watch it veer into philosophy (another MAJOR philosophy geek here! )
I'm atheist/agnostic too (fluctuate between the two )... and that's how I was raised, so I don't really feel any connection to religion, and as a queer person I honestly don't feel very embraced by religion in general (though a lot of queer people do find quite happy homes with relgion). For me, I just definitely don't feel like it's a 'hole' or something missing or anything... I feel very personally passionate about ethics and tolerance and acceptance and I don't *personally* feel like I need religion to lead a good life... But I don't think there's anything I can really add about that that nelly and chinagirl and jaime et al haven't already said!
Again, cool post!
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I am very happy that my memory isn't as bad as I thought. I have only driven by the area once in all these years and what I remember most about it is that I had a D attack and had to find a bathroom. Ended up in a Wendy's some place around there.
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Janey
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as anything significant till today-LOL retrograde! You must read your horoscopes.
I do too and was reappy into it at one ppiont. I don't look at them as anything but fun, but they often do hold true for me. Like there is some cosmic significance to the stars. And if there wasn't then that'd make me awfully arrogant.
And by the way, if there was a gay pride parade in my town, I'd march in it, for my wonderful gay uncle, my dear gy teacher friend, and you!! Big hugs, and thanks for your two cents.
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Good for you honey regarding the prayer in school. My opinion is that prayer does not belongs in public school. There's something inthe U.S. that separates church and state. I assume it is similar in Canada. Your public school was wrong to impose that on their students.
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Michele
#251840 - 03/12/06 04:16 PM
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I am so sorry that you were told that you were not welcome in the Catholic Church because you were born out of wedlock. You would be surprised at how many people in every church were born out of wedlock!
My church welcomes people born in any situation. It really doesn't matter where you came from, it only matters where you are going (heaven) and we will sit and talk with anyone as to how to receive salvation.
Since my kids were born to unwed mothers, I am a bit touchy about this wedlock thing...there is a verse in the Bible that says "I have called you by name and you are mine"...it is a verse in Isaiah and I have paraphrased of course. I believe that God has called each of us to this earth for a reason otherwise that wouldn't be in the Bible.
I don't believe that there is such a thing as an illegitemate child...the act of bringing them into this earth may have been but in my heart I know that God has a plan and a purpose for everyone on this earth...to include my kids!
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Hey, why haven't we talked before, I don't know.
You are so right, isn't it the most peaceful feeling in the world, or that you have ever experienced, to know that one day you will be living forever with your heavenly father? No pain, no sorrow, no hunger, only happiness and love. I am not saying that I want to go today, but when God is ready for me, I look forward to going Heaven and being with him who gave his only son to die for me. It brings tears to my eyes to think of it. Bless you.
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Re: Michelle
#251878 - 03/12/06 09:58 PM
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gigi
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 1442
Loc: South Texas
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Wow, Shannon, I wish I lived in an area that offered a church like yours. Three different sermon styles to choose from, awesome. It keeps people in church, and brings more in. Your group is truly working for the Lord!
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I do appreciate the time you gave to help me find the anwer to this question. I have asked it several times, but never got a reply. Thanks again!!!
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I know that Catholic Priest was out of line but what an awful thing to say to a 17 year old! I was trying to do what my first husbands family wanted and get married in there Church but we ended up getting married in a small, non denominational country Church and it all turned out fine! I only continue to have issues with Churches because I am very liberal and just don't agree with the Church telling people they are bad or will go to Hell or whatever because they disagree with some things, like being gay. And even after all I've gone through to try to have a baby and knowing what I do about when the heart starts beating and everything, I'm still pro-choice. I don't think I could ever have an abortion but I certainly can't fault a women if she does. Wills brother is leaving for Russia next month for 6 years to be a Missionary. So, I definitely get a lot of over the top religion, in my opinion, and while I think if someone wants to learn about God or Jesus thats great, tech them. But I also don't think its right to go to poor places and teach them the ONLY way to save themselves is to believe everything the Church tells them. I have no problems at all with people who are religious, don't get me wrong here and if someone says they will pray for me, I think thats great. But I also think that its ok not to be religious and would hope that people don't judge me for my lack of belief. In my opinion, it all comes down to how someone acts, not what someone believes.
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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Re: Chinagirl
#251906 - 03/13/06 09:26 AM
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michele
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 6886
Loc: southeastern michigan
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My hubby gave those two books to me months ago and I still haven't read them. I assumed they were "God" religious things, it sounds like I am wrong? I have them in my desk drawer, its rainy and slow today, maybe I'll pull them out!
Listening to everyones beliefes is rather interesting but I also just don't have the ability for faith. I think that my biggest issue is that I just can not believe that anything is all perfect and I've just heard of too many terrible things being done in the name of God.
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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When good things happen...like a miraculous pregnancy...unexpected financial blessing...unexpected healing of a sick loved one and such, I thank God for blessing me.
What do you do?
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Hmm, well, honestly God never crosses my mind. If I get pregnant, I think the fertility drugs finally worked. If someone gets well who has been sick, I think finally the dr's figured out what was wrong or that there body finally fought whatever it was off. If I find an extra 20 bucks in my checking account when I balance my checkbook, I go get a pedicure!! LOL!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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We study the mikvah briefly in the discipleship class I teach. The title of the class is "The Biblical and Historical Perspective of Women". The mikvah is a lovely tradition and if given the opportunity would be interested in experiencing that.
We may have opened a can of worms here and I know that I am not the one to explain mikvah to others. I believe it is beautiful.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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I personally think it's good luck!
To me, it doesn't make sense to thank god for a good thing because on the flip side -- do you also blame him when something bad happens or someone dies???
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Yes, through out history there have been many terrible things done in the name of God, but we were given free will. It is man and his own darkness, or insecurities that has done these awful things.
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Gracie
#252039 - 03/13/06 07:39 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I'm so impressed with your replies. You stick up for your beliefs and I admire that. Thank you for helping to explain the Christian view point.
Some of these posts have been very difficult for me to read as a Believer. Thank you for being so brave.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Keep on believing Beth, and especially in the bad times in your life. To steal a quote from Shakespeare, no matter what everybody else says or believes in, "..to thine own self be true."
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People die...it is simply a fact of life. When something bad happens...I ask God to see me through it and He has without fail every time.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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ditto, michele. when good things happen, i'm happy. there are some things, like when everything fell into place for me to get my current job, when i do feel grateful, but not to anyone, if that's possible.
i agree, though, that if i were to credit god for the good i'd have to do the same for the bad.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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This will probably make no sense to you but I've learned to trust God implicitly, have come to the conclusion that WHATEVER happens in my life, this is God loving me. It may hurt, but I can't see the big picture - He can, He sees my past hurts and my future and He knows how it all works together to grow me up into the person He wants me to be. Namely, like Jesus. I trust Him!! I thank Him for the blessings and when there is pain/loss, I have to say, "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away... blessed be the name of the Lord". Since I see every good thing in my life as a gift from Him, I have to thank Him I had the chance to enjoy it and trust Him when He allows it to be taken. Whatever that is... sometimes that is counter to reason and extremely hard... I would never look at someone else in their pain and say, "This is good for you for some reason", no, I'd never say that in that moment. In fact, I know that His heart grieves when we have to hurt.. Jesus cried when Lazarus died, he WEPT, even though He knew He was about to bring him back to life again. Why cry?? BEcause the people He loved were in pain. It grieved Him.
This is a broken world we live in. If there were no pain or loss we'd be in Heaven already. We're not. The Lord does not wish that we should suffer but it is a part of this world and though I do not pretend to understand all the detailed ins and outs of all that, I trust Him. I've been through a lot in this life of mine, much of wish I do not care to go into in a public forum like this, but I can say that in the end - I TRUST HIM and HE LOVES ME in the midst of it all.
Know that does not answer your question and may have only raised more, but had to share my perspective, anyway.
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Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)
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Very well said. That's exactly how I feel, though I wouldn't have been able to word it nearly so well.
Terri
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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I believe that all good comes from God, and while bad things might happen to all us sometime or another God does not make them happen, but allows cricumstances to come together that will test and tempt me. It is through those tests and trails that I am strengthened. Someday I will be able to reach back and take the hand of someone who needs the strength that I have gained, and then together we can take another step forward.
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Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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Shannon, Um yes, when it's snowing regularly. Sorry I couldn't
answer this till now. I travelled home from Chicago on Sat,
and had to get ready for school again on sunday. Yesterday,
we had the worst blizzard in the 22 yrs. I've been living here
. It was snowing so much at such a rate that they pulled the
plows from the roads and declared a state of emergency. Of
course I was driving home at that point(I live 10 miles
from school). I got to my town(actually it's a village of
1000) and had to leave my 4WD truck at a friend's house at
the bottom of a hill on which I live at the top. The snow
on the road up to my house was 1.5 ft.deep(glad I didn't
try to drive) and the winds were blowing at 40 mph. This
was at 3 in the aft. no less. This morning I found my whole
porch area filled with snow. This is where I get out the
front of my house. The windows and door were completely
white. I tried pushing on the door and it didn't budge a
millimeter. This is the only regular way out of my house!
So, I had to climb out my 2nd floor bedroom window and
slide down the garage roof off into a snowbank with my dog
in my lap(he had to do his poops of course).Thank was kinda
fun,reminded me of when I was a kid. I scooped out a path
to my porch, and then dug a tunnel through to the porch
door so I could get in and out again. That took 4 hrs! By
the time I got to school, I had to go swim, then eat lunch
, finally got to my office and have been trying to catch up
on posting. I've heard we got 28 inches since 8am yesterday
morning. So make that a total of 298 inches so far<laugh>!
By the way, I think you've generated the longest thread in
the history of the boards(that I know of). The longest
thread I've ever seen was a 185 posts. This makes 227 for
your thread!
- A snow tired Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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It better go out like a lamb cause it sure as heck has come in like a lion all over the freaking continent!
Anyhow, what an adventure! Who needs to watch movies when you candig tunnels and slide off your roof to take the dog to do his business?? HA HA!! Incredible that the world doesn't just shut down after that. I can't believe you'd even go to work!You're a prof, you can cancel classes!
Anyhow, I am utterly amazed that this post has gone so far, and has no intentions of stopping. I guess we found some stuff that a whole lot of people may differ on, but are passionate about. I think that's really neat. I had no IDEA everyone would chime in, but I'm so glad they did.
Hang in there, good buddy! Sending you some snowshoes
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Keep on keepin' on...
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Yep, it's all random. I don't think that I necessarily deserve the good things I was handed, nor do I think the poor children born with AIDS in Africa did anything that merited teaching them that lesson. I was lucky, they were not.
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They probably fall well within the category of "spiritual" but in a non-preachy educational way. I liked them for the fun writing and the simplified "Buddhism for idiots" quality. But I like to learn about various religions, as long as they're not being shoved down my throat.
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All good things come from God.
He also allows bad things in our lives too, for a reason. As for the bad things, well they will happen as a result of sin. God gave us a free will & we chose to sin, so therefore, we will reap the benefits of it.
As for good things, God will bless whom He chooses to bless.
He is an Almighty loving God, who does forgive us, but we must ask Him to forgive us, turn away from our evil ways,
& follow Him.
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Kiwi
IBS-C
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Kiwii
#252275 - 03/15/06 06:53 AM
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To many, the death of an infant or young child dying is a "bad thing". A baby is too young to sin...my feeling is that God allows things to happen for a reason and His heart breaks right there along with ours. He wants us to draw closer to Him and seek Him in times of trouble or sorrow.
My God is a God of grace and mercy and I have often used my own free will to do as I chose and suffered the consequences but God has always been there to forgive my sin, forget that I ever made a poor choice and continue walking by my side.
I wish I were as eloquent as Michelle, she is so poetic in her responses. I hope this makes sense.
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Re: Chinagirl
#252276 - 03/15/06 07:04 AM
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michele
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 6886
Loc: southeastern michigan
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"Buddhism for Idoits" I like that! I've yet to open the books but they are in my desk drawer and as soon as I get a few free minutes, I'm going to check them out!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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Yes I agree.
God does use such things to draw us closer to Him.
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Kiwi
IBS-C
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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