This makes total sense to me!
#155010 - 02/28/05 01:34 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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OK, I read this this morning, and boy does it make sense!
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From ABC News Online, February 28, 2005:
Vania Apkarian, an associate professor of physiology at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago, used magnetic resonance imaging technology to compare the brains of people with chronic back pain to those from matched normal subjects and found a striking difference. The brain tissue of those with chronic pain showed shrinkage equivalent to the amount of gray matter lost in 10 to 20 years of normal aging.
"What's more, this shrinkage was evident in the prefrontal cortex and the thalamus — parts of the brain associated with cognitive thinking and problem solving.
"'The longer the subject said they were in pain, the more their brain volume was decreased,' he said. 'It translated to about 1.5 cc's of brain volume loss for every year of chronic pain.'"
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I guess we all knew that chronic pain can make us forgetful and less sharp. I guess now we know for sure that there's research that says there's actual brain cell shrinkage.
~nelly~ 
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Yes, not too surprising.
How are you doing Nelly? What's up with the fibro? Have you seen a doctor about it yet? And have you started your new job yet? And where have you been hiding?
Ok, no more questions, I need to take a breath! 
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Hey SS!
For the last week I've been taking an AD which has personality side effects. Namely, I stare at the TV and drool. OK, not that bad, but it robs me of any creativity, motivation and inclination to read, write, bathe myself, move from my bed, etc.
The good news is that it stops me from kicking and gnashing in my sleep, and I'm actually getting a good night's rest. I just have to balance that between having a personality and social skills.
I stopped taking it 3 days ago, and the effects are just now wearing off. It's interesting stuff, and I'm going to write about my experiences with it as soon as the motivation I've been lacking for the last week comes back. 
~nelly~ Call me Nortriptyline Nelly 
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Nelly!
Ok, what are you taking? My doctor gave me Trazadone a few years back to help with my insomnia and it made me a zombie. You're not taking that, are you? I know you said it's called Nortriptyline so I don't know if it would be the same thing. Are you depressed Nelly?
You have such an amazing personality that no drug is worth taking if it is going to change that. No way. There must be a better AD for you. I'm on Celexa and I don't feel like a zombie at all. In fact when I first started taking it I felt like wonder woman and had WAY too much energy. Hey, I got a lot done those first 2 days! My body reacted differently to it. My body always reacts differently to drugs though. Go figure.
You take care and I hope that this drug gets out of your system quickly. It sounds like it's way too strong for you.
I want Nelly back!
It's 2 am and I should be asleep. My sleep cycle is SO messed up these days because of the break up. I don't feel stressed but my body is fighting me on this and is winning.
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I agree with Tina. Try a different one if you need too. I lasted not even a week on that one. Total zombie.
Maybe something like Trofanol, which is helpful for D people and was less sedating. I quit that one too because I am C and these drugs are good for D! Stupid doctor!
Or Pamelor. I liked that one when I was on it and also more for D folks. And like Tina said, a lot of people on the board seem to have good luck with Celexa, a newer drug than those older AD's so less side effects probably. My current doc didn't put me on that one just because he thought it would increase the constipation, which I know is not a problem for you, sweetie! 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I'll be brain dead in another few years. I wonder if this would explain why I went from being a top ace student to a person who forgets things at work 5 minutes after being told how to do something.
I'm in big trouble. This is quite scary to me, Nelly. This is serious stuff. 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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O Tina!! {{{{{{{{HUGS!!!!}}}}} You always make me feel so much better. I'm convinced I don't need an AD, at least not for depression. My problem is that I have RLS and kick in my sleep, and in the last year I've developed a nasty habit of gnashing my teeth in my sleep too. It's painful because I usually bite down on my tongue or cheek, HARD. And my mouth gets full of these painful sores that swell up and make it difficult to talk. Plus it's nerve wracking that I would actually subconsciously be causing so much harm to myself while I'm sleeping. Talk about being jolted awake too, BTW! 
So yeah, the nortriptyline is to help me sleep. I'm only taking 25 mg at bedtime. For the AD effects they usually prescribe in the 175-300 mg range. But that will actually bring on sleeplessness, so that's no good for me.
I haven't taken it for 3 days, and I'm still getting the good effects (I can sleep, and don't kick or bite). The bad effects are waning (listlessness, loss of personality, tendency to stare at TV for long hours ). I'm still not back to my normal self, but I can feel my intellect and creativity slowly returning.
You guys know that my ability to communicate and find humor in things is a big part of my personality. It felt like I was a dementia patient, looking at the world but unable to be a part of it. Very scary when you know your mind is going, and you can't snap back. I can see why the mentally ill refuse medication. It very much creates a prison of the mind. I'm going to have to think about how I'm going to take this drug.
The good thing is it does not make me suicidal like the other ADs do. My BF has been watching me just in case. But I have absolutely no suicidal thoughts on this drug, at least not at this dose. Whew. That's pretty scary, when your brain succeeds and tries to destroy the body through cutting and self-injuring. None of that on this drug, luckily. For that, it was Wellbutrin, Paxil and the worst one: Zoloft that made me self-injure. Don't want to do THAT again.  So that's my drug dilemma, reconciling the good effects against the bad ones. I'm going to try and write as much of this down in my journal before I take my next pill and zonk out for the next 3 days!
~nelly~
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I hear ya.
#155240 - 03/01/05 08:37 AM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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I agree with you, we have to attack this chronic pain or else it'll have some very serious ramifications. Brain shrinkage. Unbelievable. It makes so much sense to me too, because I went from rocket scientist (wing aerodynamics/Physics mech engineering + English scholar) to TV jockey who can't find her keys or finish her sentences... It's a tough life and it looks like it's going to get tougher.
~nelly~
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How much nortriptyline did you take? Was it given to you as an AD, or as a sleep aid? I'm taking it to help my Restless Leg Syndrome. Related to RLS, I've developed a tendency to bite my tongue while I'm sleeping in the last year, which is what's making me seek out a remedy. Do you kick in your sleep at all?
LOL! You're right, constipation is not a problem for me!!
~nelly~
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Oh Nelly, I'm here for you anytime!
Isn't there something better for RLS? As for the biting things, I have TMJ and used to wear a plastic night guard because I woke up with a sore jaw. That would prevent you from biting down, wouldn't it? I don't know though.
I would not continue taking it if it changes your mood and personality that much. It's just too much of a sacrifice as you already know.
Oh ya, you're hilarious and I can't even imagine you being a zombie and not your happy go lucky self. You shouldn't accept that. Is there another drug? A lower dose?
I looked up that drug and suicidal thoughts was one of the big warnings. You be careful and I'll kill you myself if you ever try to harm yourself. I will go find you and smack you! I would Nelly.
The Celexa I take to help my IBS makes my insomnia much worse. I have chosen to continue it as my IBS on bad days was still way worse than my insomnia. Lesser of two evils...
You hang in there Nelly and I am sending you HUGE HUGS!
We have to meet some day, my friend!
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Exactly!
#155254 - 03/01/05 09:09 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I went from graduating Summa Cum Laude to also not remembering that I have something cooking on the stove. Almost burned the place down a couple times.
It saddens me to realize how much of my brain I have lost. So frustrating to not be able to learn and pick up on things as easily.
This must be what Alzheimers is like for some people. In the beginning, they remember being top notch lawyer, doctors, professors, only to see there brains deteriorate and it is frustrating and sad.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I took very low dose, only 25 mg I think. Maybe even cut that pill in half for a while before giving up totally. I was given it to help sleep and also to help with chronic pain. As you probably already know, AD's can help chronic pain.
I now take Klonopin, a very mild anti-anxiety medication, and valerian herb to help me sleep. And also for anxiety of course.
I don't think I kick in my sleep. But then I don't have a husband or BF to tell me if I did! Hmmm, could explain why my sheets are always tangled around me and half lying on the floor!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Re: Exactly!
#155320 - 03/01/05 11:16 AM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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That's so true. The roughest part is I can look back on all the notes I took in college and it amazes me what level work I was doing. I can't understand half of it now.
It's so scary remembering being sharp, and looking at my mind slowly fading away. Sometimes I have my moments and I think "wow everybody's listening to me" and then BAM! I stop mid sentence! My train of thought is GONE and I don't remember what word I was trying to find.
~nelly~ 
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The nortipaline made me the same way! I think I took it for three days than had to stop!! I was actually hallucinating on it!! I also suffer from insomina. I started taking Ambien about 6 weeks ago and it has really helped me! I don't toss and turn and sleep throught he whole night. Well, I get up to pee but I don't think I really wake up to do that!! It shuts down a certain part of your brain. Not sure if it will help with the RLS or not. It doesn't make me tired the next day at all. As long as you take it only when you can sleep for 7-8 hours, it works great!! Maybe something for you to check into? Hope you're feeling better soon! Hugs!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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LOL! I guess if you kick you'd probably wake yourself up in the process. I only kick right when I'm drifting off to sleep, or if I'm in the middle of a vivid nightmare. Otherwise, I bob my legs up and down throughout the day and can't keep them still. Friends have offered to break my knees for me before. Guess the daytime RLS bothers them more than it bothers me.
Watch out for that Klonopin. It is rough stuff. I took it for a year and kicked it cold turkey. Took me a month of nasty DTs to get it out of my system. My legs and back hurt so much during that month, and I was dizzy constantly. They also perscribe it for cocaine addiction (in a sense similar to being prescribed methadone to kick heroin) for addicts getting off of coke. Stevie Nicks (from Fleetwood Mac-- remember her? I'm dating myself! ) writes about getting off of Klonopin after she had been addicted to coke, then addicted to the Klonopin for years. Be careful with that stuff.
You have a good idea-- I'm also thinking of cutting the nortriptyline in half, but it's the capsule type of pill with the powder so I'm not sure how much mess it's going to make. But if I take a 25 mg pill it lasts me for 3 days of zombieness and 3 nights of sleep, so I might just take it every 3 days.
I'm going to have to start attending meetings soon for my part-time job, seeing the clients and making on-site appearences, so I can't afford to be a zombie, but I really need to get some sleep amid the stress too. Benedryl works fine for sleep for me, but I still bite and kick. Same for Soma. Probably the only thing other than the nortriptyline that works with regard to the RLS is (*shudder*) alcohol. (!!) Not sure I want to go that route tho!!
~nelly~
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Did it help your anxiety and sleeping? Why is it so bad to take? I'm nervous now because I've been taking it for a while. Why did you stop? What did it do to you while on it?
My nortryptylene came in tablet form so I could cut it.
Ps. did you see my post on smoking pot below? How do you find a "source" without getting busted. I don't know anyone! I would only take this for pain relief. Not because I want a buzz. I've never even smoked a cigarrette before, or drank a whole beer! But I need something for pain!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I appreciate the tip Michele! I've also heard great things about Ambien. I'm reading all that I can about it so that when I visit the doc I can ask for some to try. I like trying out new remedies, because I am very curious about knowing what's going to work for me! Even more important I think, is finding out what doesn't work at all, or what makes things worse. I like being able to be in a position to say "this has worked for me in the past, so I know I can count on it working now, when I REALLY need it!"
The nortriptyline does exactly what it's supposed to-- help me sleep and stop the RLS. The trick is handling the side effects, which I'm getting the hang of. I want to be at the point that I can take it without fear, and so any knowledge is power!
Thanks for everything, Michele! You know I think you're the cat's pajamas!!
~nelly~
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I'm going to the doc today to get off it....hope she'll help me...or I'm taking myself off.
I have lost 5 pounds in 3 or 4 weeks (can't remember) but I can't lose anymore. And it's making me miserable.
Plus I had hemms from it, and other stuff (my breasts are huge now and so's my tush!0
I am SICK o meds making me sicker. I'm going naturale!
Ok...bout to reads the rest of this thread.....
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Nelly not to but in on this, but make sure you can get a full night's sleep when taking Ambien. My husband took it during graduate school when he was only getting 4 hours and the doctor forgot to tell him that it would cause some memory loss or make you feel like you are in a daze. That was not a good combo when he was up studying for classes!!
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{{{{{HUGS!!}}}} You are the nicest thing for thinking about me! Yes, please smack the tar outta me if I get out of line and hurt myself! Please know that I am not suicidal, that I do take measures to be in a position where I will not hurt myself! I recognize the warning signs and I do ask for help when I start having dark thoughts, but please know it is because of drug interactions with my brain, not because I am a sad person! Some of these ADs are like chemical dispair in pill form, I swear. The nortriptyline is not one of those, luckily, because it actually works for RLS! It would suck royally if it worked for the RLS but then made me into Dr. Gloom.
I have a biteplate (several, actually ) but I spit them out in my sleep. It's always been like this for me even when I had a retainer; I can't tolerate anything in my mouth while I'm sleeping, or awake for that matter. I don't even do gum or mints. It's weird, but if I can't swallow it right away, I spit whatever it is out!
I have TMJ too. on my right side it's both up and going down, and on my left, it's just going down. I can't bite down properly at all because I have some weird mouth malformation, and I grind my teeth when I get stressed and when I'm asleep. When it's at its worst, I actually wake myself up because of the squeeking of my teeth grinding against each other! LOL! Ugh, the THOUGHT of the sound is making me cringe!!!
I totally agree we have to meet one of these days!! I've been wanting to visit Toronto for a while, so I'm going to have to put some plans in gear to go up to the Great White North for sure!!
~nelly~
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Nelly
#155352 - 03/01/05 12:03 PM
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Nelly how long have you been on Nor? Give it 3 weeks to see if the sde effets dissapate. If not...then I'm with you. Take it every so often...
I bite my tongue too! I couldn't fall asleep without biting my tongue as a kid. It's gotten better over time.
Can you ge t a bite or whatever it's called form the dentist?
I am SO SORRY you have to go through all of this....I wish I knew how to help. I will think of you....and I will try to remember to ask my pain specialist if she has any ideas for you *hugs*
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Re: Nelly....
#155361 - 03/01/05 12:09 PM
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michele
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 6886
Loc: southeastern michigan
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Yep, the dr told me the same thing about Ambien! I take it early, like 10ish. I'm usually alseep in 30 minutes! The dr said don't wait until 2 or 3 am to take it because than it will make you a zoombie the next day! But as long as you "sleep it off" for 7 hours or so, it has no "hang over" effect for me!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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I have the same reaction to klonapin, xanax and valium-- they feel great when I'm on them. But if I go off of them for even a day, I end up crying and having mood swings for no good reason!!
I never want to touch any one of those ever again simply because of the downs. Even ONE PILL will make me depressed and snappy for a week after.
~nelly~
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Ruchie!
#155373 - 03/01/05 12:28 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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Rache, you're such a good friend. Thanks for thinking of me!! I only have a limited supply of pills, so I'm just doing some preliminary experimentation so I know how I'll react the next time I really need to use them and get some sleep. They really do help the RLS, and the biting too.
It's weird, the day I take the pill and I start to bite, my jaw will actually STOP, mid-motion, and I can close it gently on my own. After the 1st day and I don't take them for a couple days, I don't even start the bite anymore. The biting just completely ceases until the pill wears off in 3-4 days. Very cool.
So I know it's working! Just the zombieness is a little, uh, distracting! But I know I'd be able to push myself and drive a car, attend a meeting, etc. if I had to. It's just I don't have any place to be at the mo, so I'm content staring and watching the hours tick by. Biz-are!
I spit out bite plates. It's for me the equivillant of shoving it up my a** and trying to sleep. Yeah, too uncomfortable.
How've you been Ruchie?? Are you happy with your pain specialist?
~nelly~
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Thanks Angela!
#155375 - 03/01/05 12:31 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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Oh please I always want yuo to butt in, Angela!! I've heard the same thing, that one should not take Ambien if 7-8 hours can't be devoted to solid sleep! I can't imagine trying to go through grad school fighting to stay awake through the effects of a sleeping aid!!! Grad school's hard enough without the medical sabotage!!!
~nelly~
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Nelly
#155377 - 03/01/05 12:32 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Thanks for the response, but I'm still confused. If the klonopin was working for you so well while you were taking it, why did you stop it?
Don't know any teens or aging hippies, unfortunately. I guess I'll probably have to remain "pot free" until I figure something out. I don't even know if I would have the guts to take it. Can't lose even more brain cells!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Hey Ruchie
#155380 - 03/01/05 12:34 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Did you see my post to you on the Eating Board?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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or habit forming like sleeping pills are known for? I think of Richard Carpenter and how he was in Rehab for sleeping pills.
Do you need to keep taking these and your body become dependent on them?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I took Klonopin for several years, I think. It put me in a chilled, quiet place and there it kept me very well.
All kidding aside, this is nothing to joke about. I hate this drug, I lost huge blocks of time while on it. I went places and did things and bought stuff (remember none of it). Of course, the dosage was way too strong, I was seeing a (DR. ???) who had just finished school, she did not know how to monitor a patient thats for sure. I was climbing out of an ugly breakdown, this drug was given to me for sleep. When I finally saw another DR., and was taken off of it, the detox was horrible. I hate this drug. I do not recomend it for anyone, ever. I do not understand why Dr.'s are still using it so readily on thier patients. (must be kickbacks from the drug company). My poor h, was very good to me, he did his best to watch over me and protect me. To this day, I will do anyhthing for him to make sure his life runs as smoothly as possible, he is a wonderful h and a great man.
Now, I take Ativan for sleep. T
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Thanks gigi! You totally reminded me. LOST PERIODS OF TIME. I have blackouts that lasted weeks! I have seen movies in the theaters that I have absolutely no recollection ever seeing. I went to a concert that I swear to you I wasn't at. And I've had conversations and met people that I have no recollection of, whatsoever.
Blackouts were the most telling side effects of klonapin, and I really only realized how many they were AFTER I'd kicked the drug. So funny I'd forgotten that little tidbit of information!
~nelly~
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This site: Ambien lists some withdrawl signs following abrupted discontinuation, but mentions that it's unclear if it reveals any clear evidence for withdrawal syndrome.
It also equates 40mg of Ambien to similar effects from 20mg of diazapam.
~nelly~
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I was told that you don't build up a tolerance, like you do to Xanax or Vicodin. I was told that you may expierence some "rebound" insomnia when you stop taking it. I was told that it was fine to take everynight. Because it works on only one particular section of the brain, the part the controls our sleep, it doesn't give you a buzz or anything like that. But, as mentioned, if you don't get the full 7-8 hours of rest after taking it, it can make you very groggy and forgetful. I find that I have no after effects at all. I've been on it about 6 weeks and have not noticed any side effects. I have been sleeping so well that I haven't wanted to go a night without it, so I take it every night. My dr said that was fine! She gave me three refills and told me to call her if it worked for me! Its so much easier to deal with "life" after you have had a good nights sleep!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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Excpet that Diazapan(Valium, similiar to Xanax) is a tranquiller and ambien is not! ambiens works on a different part of the brain.
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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You're absolutely right. I re-read my post and you're right, it does seem like I'm comparing the 2 medications. What I meant was to compare how patients perceived the effects of the 2 medications, not their chemical makeup, addictability, or how they react on the body.
Sorry. Ma fault.
~nelly~
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Hey Nelly! We all like you here, you're so funny and witty! I always enjoy reading your posts! 
I know you aren't suicidal. But if you take meds that play around with the chemistry in your brain you never know what can happen. I am very glad that your BF is by your side and is looking out for you! I know you're not a sad person, gosh no. Not you! I would still smack you even if it was because of something you took. You're a bright gal, I'm sure you have it under control.
I don't know much about RLS. I can imagine that's a big part of why you and your BF can't share a bed though. That's why my ex and I couldn't, my insomnia. But I have a theory that once I'm on my own that my sleep will improve. I'll be under less stress. And if not, who cares, I'll be living alone, just me and my cat!
Ya, I have taken out my mouth guard more times than I've kept it in. Who wants a piece of plastic in their mouth? No me! I broke it a few months back. It was an accident. I swear!!! Expensive accident. A new one will cost me $300.
TMJ sucks, huh! I find that mine comes on with stress. I find the best thing to help ease the pain is damp heat. I have never heard myself grind my teeth, either has the ex. I think I clench more than grind. You must have some massive headaches from that. That's what happens to me when my TMJ acts up.
If you ever come to Canada, let me know! I would love to meet you as well as some of the others on the board if there's another get together in the near future. Toronto is not too far away.
Nelly, I know you have some health issues that are real tough, feel free to email me anytime and I hope you can always keep your amazing sense of humour!
Big hugs!
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Quote:
Hmm, scoring pot. Do you know any teenagers? A really good way to find medicinal herb is to join a local support group. That's how my friend with cancer found some. She told me people were actually offering it to her after group, and they were openly price-comparing. Amazing to me.
LOL I have to go to a support group meeting for either narcotics, alcohol, or cocaine users for a class assignment. I'm currently taking a class called Drugs and Narcotics and my teacher said that there's only 3 reasons someone goes to a support group meeting: 1) the court forced them to as part of their sentance; 2) they voluntarily went; or 3) they're new in town and want to find out where the local dealers are.
This thread is actually helping me a lot because we learned about what exactly these drugs do to your body and the signs of addiction and withdrawl, so you guys are actually helping me study in a weird round-about way! Thanks
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- Jennifer
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How much were you taking?
Is Ativan a prescription drug? If it is my doc isn't going to give it to me. He'd rather give me klonopin for anxiety. I don't know if I should get this drug refilled. Did you wean yourself off of it or do it slowly.
This may explain why I forget that pots are on the stove, where I just put something, why I've lost my saving account book 3 times in one month.
Also why when I ran out for a few weeks, I was crying all the time. I stopped the lexapro at the same time so just figured it was because of that. Perhaps not??
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am very leery about this drug. I have always heard such good things about it and this is the third doctor who has put me on this drug. So I figured if three doctors chose this drug, it must be safe. And I really trust this last doc as he is a psychiatrist as well and an internist.
Hmmm, what to do. My anxiety is a huge issue for me and my IBS. I am in a quandry. Wow, I can't believe I remembered the word I wanted to use. I usually have a hard time coming out with the word I am searching for. 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I have this too!!!! People will be talking about a movie that I know I have seen and I can't even remember what the movie was even about!!
Perhaps I don't have fibro fog, just klonopin fog!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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What are you going to school for?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Quote:
What are you going to school for?
Justice Studies.. I wanna be a criminal law clerk.
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- Jennifer
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LOL JR! *DELETED*
#155422 - 03/01/05 01:45 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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Post deleted by Nelly
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Re: Jennifer Rose
#155423 - 03/01/05 01:46 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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5-0! 5-0! Everbody scatter!!!
~not nelly~
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I didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you or anything Nelly!! Just wanted to be sure people understand the differences of the drugs!! 
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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Thanks so much, T. TMJ headaches are the WORST. I just wish they made one perfect pill that took away IBS-C *and* D, head pain, mouth pain, not to mention back, leg and stubbing your toe in the middle of the night pain!! And oh yes, made you sleep and wake up feeling perfectly genius and clear-headed!! We'd call it... Chocolate fudge ripple cake (after its preferred mouth delivery device)!!!
You're such a cool chick, and I'm glad to call you my friend! It's so great to have these boards to visit and talk to each other about the real things that are going on!!
~nelly~
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Nope, no offense taken. You were 100% right to clarify my post!!
~nelly~
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Gosh, after reading these posts, I feel very fortunate that I had such a wonderful doctor about 5 years ago when I was going through the most difficult time in my life.
I could not sleep---didn't sleep a wink for weeks---and was going nuts! He put me on Klonopin temporarily after exhausting every effort to get me to sleep (I tried every "sleeping" pill, Benadryl, relaxation techniques, counseling, etc.) I was having horrible pain attacks and my brain would not allow me to sleep.
I took it temporarily and then when we both felt I didn't need it, he weaned me off of it---and I had no problem. If you are taking it on a regular basis, YOU CANNOT JUST QUIT taking Klonopin or Xanax (I took that for a short time too) without tapering off the dosage---unless you want to experience the effects many of you have mentioned. The way he explained it to me is if you are taking it on a regular basis and you stop it cold turkey, you will have what they call "rebound anxiety" which can be just as bad or worse than the anxiety you had to begin with.
I gradually reduced the dosage (cutting it back once a week) with no problem. It makes me furious to hear about all of these doctors who just prescribe this medicine (and Xanax) in large dosages without any explanation to the patient about how to discontinue its use, when needed. My doctor warned me of its addictive potential and monitored my use of it very closely.
It's funny but I still have a bottle of it in my medicine cabinet. I rarely ever take it----maybe 1/4 mg. several times a year. I laugh and tell my current doctor that it's my security blanket. Just knowing I have it and can take it if needed usually eases my anxiety.
I'm not in any way advocating someone take this drug because it can be dangerous, but if it is necessary (which in my case, it was a last resort), it can be useful----if you have a very GOOD doctor you can trust.
I'm still counting my blessings I had one of those great doctors! I'm proof you can get off it it safely.
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Ooops
#155446 - 03/01/05 02:17 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Maybe I shouldn't have asked where you guys recommend getting pot from. Didn't realize Jennifer Rose was a Criminal Justice Major!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Well, mostly this thread has helped me with quizing myself. Like "What class drug is valium? Side effects? Classification?" Stuff like that. The technical side of things.
I think I'm going to chose the Narcotics Annoynomous meeting to go to so it should be interesting! Never been to one and we're not allowed to take notes during it (privacy!) so will be challenging to remember everything for a paper.
Thanks for the offer, though!
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- Jennifer
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I've been on it for over 2 years, at 2 mg a day, so I think I need to try and wean myself off of it slowly.
Thanks to all of you.
I don't know what I will replace it with for my anxiety and for sleeping as this doc is not going to be happy with me for stopping a drug he recommended and asking for a different one. "Doctor is always right" complex.
I know he will just assure me that it is the safest, mildest thing for me and that I am perfectly fine on it and not to listen to others experiences with it. No offense.
But I already know this will be his reaction. When I complained to him that it wasn't helping the anxiety is when he actually increased it from 1 mg a day to 2 mg a day.
How much did you guys take of this?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Quote:
5-0! 5-0! Everbody scatter!!!
~not nelly~
LMAO - Have you ever seen the Boost Mobile commercials where they have the old people trying to act young? Those are my favorite commercials - especially the one where they're all at a street car side show when the cops show up and the 90 yr old asian guy starts yelling "5-0! 5-0!" as they're hobbling with their walkers to their rice rockets. LOL Ahh.. love that commercial.
And let me make it clear - it'll be Criminal DEFENSE! Most of my friends (my boys as I often call them) are redneck troublemakers so I often joke that they will all be out of jail, but I will have a yard full of trucks accepted as payment.
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- Jennifer
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On Ambien:
Different people have different experiences with becoming addicitve - and it CAN become addictive for some. That is why the drug is on the DEA list of restricted materials. The most important thing with this drug is that you take it COMPLETELY within the guidelines of your doctor who has given you a prescription for the medicine.
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Oooh I found the Boost Mobile commercials, except they don't have the one I was talking about.
http://www.boostmobile.com/commercials.html
Check out the first one though! Just as funny.
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- Jennifer
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You're a cool chick too!
TMJ headaches are awful. I am convinced that they're borderline migraines. I get the nausea and and light sensitivity. The best thing that I've found is Excederin but it's not too gently on the tummy.
I will order a lifetime supply of those Chocolate fudge ripple cake pills. Hook me up Nelly!
So it's settled we're gal pals!
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Re: Boost Mobile
#155541 - 03/01/05 05:49 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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OK, OK, we're cool. Defense. No problem!
~nelly~Peering out from behind a bush
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TOO FUNNY!!
#155542 - 03/01/05 05:54 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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I'd never seen those before!!!!! LMBO!!!!
BF just called me "old" for using the term 5-0. Stoopid Gen Y-er. Told me I should go home and play with my Atari.
~nelly~
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No I didn't...got your e-mail....will write asap *hugs*
Hope you feel great for now beth *hugs*
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Formerly known as Ruchie
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Hmmm, Now I know what's wrong with me AND I have a legit excuse! I too breezed through high school (no further due to choosing to have kids very young) without trying at all to get the straight A's I got and now I'm lucky if I can recall putting my wallet in the fridge (yes, I do this constantly and yes, I can NEVER find it). Pretty scary thought really. I'd be interested to know exactly how much someone's brain can shrink in a year when in chronic pain!
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Amy
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Re: Beth
#155583 - 03/01/05 09:26 PM
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gigi
Reged: 03/21/04
Posts: 1442
Loc: South Texas
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Ativan is an anti-anxiety type medication. This is what they give people who go into the ER after a terrible accident or such to calm them down. In the ER, Critical Care Unit, or Intensive Care Unit, they use this drug in extremely high doses to keep the patient calm (can't think of the word to use instead of calm) .
I have been seeing my Psychiatrist for about 6 years, he doesn't ever have to look back and read my chart before I come in, he remembers me. He does though, quite frequently look back to make sure he isn't giving me something that we have tried before and didn't agree with me. The dosage on the Ativan is so low that I do not ever worry about it, though it is addicting, and I am sure that I am addicted to it, but I hate not sleeping and if I do not take something, I will never ever go to sleep and that is a horrible feeling after a week or two. Let me tell ya !
Zanax, I hate it. So many DR's prescribe this stuff by the bottle full and never look back, what is going on with that? I think that these drug companies are making so much money on this stuff, and they give the DR's many gifts. I over heard my Allergy Doc telling one of his reps that he loved his trip to a FOREIGN COUNTRY ( that being another one that I cannot remember) criminy !!!!!! That really upsets me that I cannot use my vocabulary the way I would like, I cannot remember a thing !!!!
I hope you find something that agrees with you soon!
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It seems I have to learn from my own mistakes. Yes, I was addicted to Ambien, and I have many friends addicted to it. For one thing, I can't remember what it was doing to me when I decided I needed to get off of it. I probably did not even tell my doctor until after the dt's were over. My memory stinks, my h told me it would fry my brain, he was right! I did not know that this med was for short term usage, or, maybe I did and kept on taking it because I thought I was sleeping so good. I know I HATE THIS DRUG. What else can I say, .
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Hey Gigi!! Thanks so much for posting this! It's so important to share Rx experiences, and I really appreciate the information. I'm the kind of person who gets every obscure drug side effect when I first take a new prescription!! So any drug warnings I can hear about addiction potential I take to heart!
BIG HUGS!!! So sorry you had to go through this!! I'm glad you can share your story so we can go into taking on a new Rx with our eyes wide open! (no pun on the Ambien!)
~nelly~
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...it was all the drugs/partying I did as a teenager. :P
Seriously, though, it DOES make sense. And it's scary. Because I've ALWAYS been forgetful and it gets worse every year... I can just imagine what I'm going to be like 10 years from now. Yikes.
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So, Nelly...
#155697 - 03/02/05 07:33 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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are you going to still try the ambien or avoid it? I'm not sure what is safest to take now! 
I do need my sleep! But now I'm afraid of everything! Maybe I should just try sticking to herbs that Ruchie mentioned?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Btw guys
#155701 - 03/02/05 07:37 AM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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It might be coincidence (toom much going on) but I've been sleeping LOADS better since starting the Valerian. I'm not even sure I've been on it long enough to get the full effect...is that a factor with this does anyone know? And I thought herbs would have no effect on me! Admittedly, I was checking all the sleepy-herb-combinations labels and the one I picked had way more valerian than some of them...up to ten times as much. Maybe that's why it's never seemed to have worked before!
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Gosh, I guess if the doctors don't find some relief for my back pain soon my brain's just gonna shrivel up to nothing! Since this has been going on for a year, I should be a vegetable soon!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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the only med you take for sleep and/or anxiety?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Well I take amitriptyline as well which is supposed to help me sleep but doesn't seem to help much in that department. I also take a "full" dose of Celexa to control my Fibro and prevent my depression coming back (they're a bit inter-linked so it's complicated).
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Its great to hear everyone expierences about the different meds!!! Its funny how the same drug can affect two people so differently! As some of you may already know, I was a drug addict. I had a serious addiction to coke and meth for several years. I have been clean now for 8 years. I KNOW I have an addictive personality and have to be especially careful with medications for this reason.
On a regular basis, I take Zoloft, for depression/anxiety. I have been on Wellbutrin, Prozax and Lexapro as well. Personally, I liked the Lexapro the best but since I'm trying to make a baby they switched me back to a low dose of 50mg of Zoloft. A year ago when I tried to stop the Lexapro, I really would prefer not to take any AD while pregnant, I had a horrible time. The physical side effects, shaking, dizzy, headaches, inability to concentrate, etc, lasted about 3 weeks. I went another 3 weeks after that before I broke down and went back to the dr. It was awful. I was miserable. I could hardley get out of bed. I cried all the time. I couldn't deal with anything. I had thoughts of sucide. I truely believe that some people, myslef included, have some sort of chemical imbalance that requires medication. So, I've pretty much resigned myself to being on some sort of AD probably forever.
This last year has been so physically and emotionally terrible for me, I've started having frequent panick attacks, racing heart, shaking hands and just plain TENSE, VERY TENSE. This is why my dr has prescribed me Xanax. Its the lowest dose, 25mg. I don't take it every day. I take it only when needed. I did have a bad week a couple of weeks ago with a bad pain IBS attack and did take it pretty much every day for a week and when I felt better, I just stopped taking it, without any problems. I haven't had one now in several days and I'm doing fine.
The Vicodin is prescribed to me for these pain IBS attacks and again, is taken just when needed. Same thing, I took those several times a day for over a week and again, haven't had one in several days now. So, I think it is possible, if used responsibily, that these types of drugs do have their place. Even for people who have had addiction issues in the past. I am well aware that I have to be very careful, much more so than maybe the "average" person because of my addictions in the past. But, I also feel the benefits I get from the occasional use of these drugs is well worth the risk.
As for the Ambien, I haven't noticed any changes in my memory or other negative effects. I feel this drug has been very effective in treating my insomnia. I will ween myself of in another month or so when I'm done with all my fertility testing and am actually trying to get pregnant. I've been told to expect some "rebound" insomina at first but hopefully I won't expierence anything worse than that! I'll have to keep you posted on that in the next couple of months!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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No wonder I'm so stupid!
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Sometimes I walk backwards to see where I have been!
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I really like you Nelly, so many times you really crack me up!
My sister is like you, if there is a tiny obscure reaction to anything, it will hit her hard. I've seen her running around her house with her arms flailing in the air from some medication years ago. I felt so sorry for her at the time, now I make fun of her for it. We laugh.
I had to share both of those stories on addiction, I never in my wildest dreams would have though that ME, I, MYSELF would be the type of person to fight an addiction. Hey, it happens to the best of us!
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Linz, just wondering, have you read anything about the Valerian interacting with other meds? Thanks.
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I know you have been through so much this last year. To tell you the truth, I wouldn't be sleeping if it were me in the same position. It sounds like you have educated yourself well , and are prepared to deal with any problems should they crop up. Good for you!
My best friend has an addictive behavior also, she is taking the Ambien on an as needed basis. It has to be a really bad sleeping situation for her to take it. She knows everything I went through and she helped me so much.
I will be thinking of you and keeping you in my prayers. Take care honey!
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Nope, not yet! Hopefully I won't as it seems to be having a good effect.
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Valerian
#156182 - 03/03/05 03:01 AM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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My supplement dose (I take 2 tablets) is 600mg of dried standardised Valerian, equivalent to 3.6g of fresh root.
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Re: Nelly girl....
#156260 - 03/03/05 07:15 AM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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Addiction is so not your fault! You're so right, it does happen to the best of us! And the more I live the more I see that for all our human similarities, the different brain chemistries we all have! Although the funny part is that all of our experiences in life are very much the same in the end! At the end of it all, any life experience that gives me empathy is totally worth it.
LOL! I just had to laugh at the "running around her house with her arms flailing in the air from some medication" reference!! Hey, I resemble that remark!! Sometimes we all just have to laugh at each other!! Keeps us all sane, you know!!!!
~nelly~ I like you too, Gigi!
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Hi Beth.
I have taken Ambien, but only a few times when I was travelling and needed it to readjust my sleep schedule in strange places ( like trains, planes and hotel rooms in third world countries). It works - knocks you out no matter what the circumstances! But I know it can be adictive, so I only take it under those sorts of abnormal circumstances, and I'm always in consultation with my doctor about it.
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i am new to you guys. and my husband needs serious help breaking the cycle of ibs and what triggers it. i need to ask a question here. is there anybody out there who has ibs with upper gi symptoms. he has severe upper abd./stomach pain and vomiting to the point he's straining to throw his insides out. it's hard to believe that anything this severe can't be helped . i know from his dr. since he is newly diagnosed from vanderbilt there is no cure but my husband is having a serious time accepting this is his prob. even though all the proper tests have been done. he is in misery and i'm affraid he's going to give up. noone should have to live this way. if it weren't true you'd think you were in a nightmare. please somebody shed some light on how he can stop an attack once it's started... it takes him days and a trip to the er sometimes. he is now on meds like reglan, librax, and elavil at night. you know, my husband and i are both nurses but everything went out the door as far as anything that made since anymore when it come to this irritable bowel syndrome... you'd think with all of their technology that they could find something to really help. it's seriously disheartening when you can't even help the one you love. all the knowledge in the world don't seem to help at this point. nothing is calming it down. i've read all the info. from heather and you guys and it is very helpful and i try to believe there is help but nothing is helping right now... i have heathers book "eating for ibs" and am waiting for the other book to arrive "the first year" and hope it has a lot of help... if anyone out there has his kind of ibs please let me know how you deal with it and if there is real hope.... my husband thinks this is how he will die. he is 46 years old..... please help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! need help fast
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