This makes total sense to me!
#155010 - 02/28/05 01:34 PM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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OK, I read this this morning, and boy does it make sense!
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From ABC News Online, February 28, 2005:
Vania Apkarian, an associate professor of physiology at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago, used magnetic resonance imaging technology to compare the brains of people with chronic back pain to those from matched normal subjects and found a striking difference. The brain tissue of those with chronic pain showed shrinkage equivalent to the amount of gray matter lost in 10 to 20 years of normal aging.
"What's more, this shrinkage was evident in the prefrontal cortex and the thalamus — parts of the brain associated with cognitive thinking and problem solving.
"'The longer the subject said they were in pain, the more their brain volume was decreased,' he said. 'It translated to about 1.5 cc's of brain volume loss for every year of chronic pain.'"
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I guess we all knew that chronic pain can make us forgetful and less sharp. I guess now we know for sure that there's research that says there's actual brain cell shrinkage.
~nelly~ 
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Yes, not too surprising.
How are you doing Nelly? What's up with the fibro? Have you seen a doctor about it yet? And have you started your new job yet? And where have you been hiding?
Ok, no more questions, I need to take a breath! 
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Hey SS!
For the last week I've been taking an AD which has personality side effects. Namely, I stare at the TV and drool. OK, not that bad, but it robs me of any creativity, motivation and inclination to read, write, bathe myself, move from my bed, etc.
The good news is that it stops me from kicking and gnashing in my sleep, and I'm actually getting a good night's rest. I just have to balance that between having a personality and social skills.
I stopped taking it 3 days ago, and the effects are just now wearing off. It's interesting stuff, and I'm going to write about my experiences with it as soon as the motivation I've been lacking for the last week comes back. 
~nelly~ Call me Nortriptyline Nelly 
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Nelly!
Ok, what are you taking? My doctor gave me Trazadone a few years back to help with my insomnia and it made me a zombie. You're not taking that, are you? I know you said it's called Nortriptyline so I don't know if it would be the same thing. Are you depressed Nelly?
You have such an amazing personality that no drug is worth taking if it is going to change that. No way. There must be a better AD for you. I'm on Celexa and I don't feel like a zombie at all. In fact when I first started taking it I felt like wonder woman and had WAY too much energy. Hey, I got a lot done those first 2 days! My body reacted differently to it. My body always reacts differently to drugs though. Go figure.
You take care and I hope that this drug gets out of your system quickly. It sounds like it's way too strong for you.
I want Nelly back!
It's 2 am and I should be asleep. My sleep cycle is SO messed up these days because of the break up. I don't feel stressed but my body is fighting me on this and is winning.
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I agree with Tina. Try a different one if you need too. I lasted not even a week on that one. Total zombie.
Maybe something like Trofanol, which is helpful for D people and was less sedating. I quit that one too because I am C and these drugs are good for D! Stupid doctor!
Or Pamelor. I liked that one when I was on it and also more for D folks. And like Tina said, a lot of people on the board seem to have good luck with Celexa, a newer drug than those older AD's so less side effects probably. My current doc didn't put me on that one just because he thought it would increase the constipation, which I know is not a problem for you, sweetie! 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I'll be brain dead in another few years. I wonder if this would explain why I went from being a top ace student to a person who forgets things at work 5 minutes after being told how to do something.
I'm in big trouble. This is quite scary to me, Nelly. This is serious stuff. 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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O Tina!! {{{{{{{{HUGS!!!!}}}}} You always make me feel so much better. I'm convinced I don't need an AD, at least not for depression. My problem is that I have RLS and kick in my sleep, and in the last year I've developed a nasty habit of gnashing my teeth in my sleep too. It's painful because I usually bite down on my tongue or cheek, HARD. And my mouth gets full of these painful sores that swell up and make it difficult to talk. Plus it's nerve wracking that I would actually subconsciously be causing so much harm to myself while I'm sleeping. Talk about being jolted awake too, BTW! 
So yeah, the nortriptyline is to help me sleep. I'm only taking 25 mg at bedtime. For the AD effects they usually prescribe in the 175-300 mg range. But that will actually bring on sleeplessness, so that's no good for me.
I haven't taken it for 3 days, and I'm still getting the good effects (I can sleep, and don't kick or bite). The bad effects are waning (listlessness, loss of personality, tendency to stare at TV for long hours ). I'm still not back to my normal self, but I can feel my intellect and creativity slowly returning.
You guys know that my ability to communicate and find humor in things is a big part of my personality. It felt like I was a dementia patient, looking at the world but unable to be a part of it. Very scary when you know your mind is going, and you can't snap back. I can see why the mentally ill refuse medication. It very much creates a prison of the mind. I'm going to have to think about how I'm going to take this drug.
The good thing is it does not make me suicidal like the other ADs do. My BF has been watching me just in case. But I have absolutely no suicidal thoughts on this drug, at least not at this dose. Whew. That's pretty scary, when your brain succeeds and tries to destroy the body through cutting and self-injuring. None of that on this drug, luckily. For that, it was Wellbutrin, Paxil and the worst one: Zoloft that made me self-injure. Don't want to do THAT again.  So that's my drug dilemma, reconciling the good effects against the bad ones. I'm going to try and write as much of this down in my journal before I take my next pill and zonk out for the next 3 days!
~nelly~
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I hear ya.
#155240 - 03/01/05 08:37 AM
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Nelly
Reged: 08/06/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Within stray mortar fire of DC
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I agree with you, we have to attack this chronic pain or else it'll have some very serious ramifications. Brain shrinkage. Unbelievable. It makes so much sense to me too, because I went from rocket scientist (wing aerodynamics/Physics mech engineering + English scholar) to TV jockey who can't find her keys or finish her sentences... It's a tough life and it looks like it's going to get tougher.
~nelly~
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How much nortriptyline did you take? Was it given to you as an AD, or as a sleep aid? I'm taking it to help my Restless Leg Syndrome. Related to RLS, I've developed a tendency to bite my tongue while I'm sleeping in the last year, which is what's making me seek out a remedy. Do you kick in your sleep at all?
LOL! You're right, constipation is not a problem for me!!
~nelly~
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Oh Nelly, I'm here for you anytime!
Isn't there something better for RLS? As for the biting things, I have TMJ and used to wear a plastic night guard because I woke up with a sore jaw. That would prevent you from biting down, wouldn't it? I don't know though.
I would not continue taking it if it changes your mood and personality that much. It's just too much of a sacrifice as you already know.
Oh ya, you're hilarious and I can't even imagine you being a zombie and not your happy go lucky self. You shouldn't accept that. Is there another drug? A lower dose?
I looked up that drug and suicidal thoughts was one of the big warnings. You be careful and I'll kill you myself if you ever try to harm yourself. I will go find you and smack you! I would Nelly.
The Celexa I take to help my IBS makes my insomnia much worse. I have chosen to continue it as my IBS on bad days was still way worse than my insomnia. Lesser of two evils...
You hang in there Nelly and I am sending you HUGE HUGS!
We have to meet some day, my friend!
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