Here we go again...family issues
#131721 - 12/20/04 03:51 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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My Dad is an alcholic (who denies he is).
He gets "depressed" and turns to alcohol, stops going to work, claims he is sick (usually a virus or a bug) and turns against everyone. He then has a huge row with as many of us are there at the time(Mam and kids), claims we are all turned against him, takes to bed full time for a couple of days and eventually stops drinking for a couple of months. The drinking phase can last from a week to a couple of months before the bed stage. During the drinking phase I beg my mother to leave him and take the kids out of that environment. He is not violent at all, just abusive and difficult.
His last binge was in August and because I was so sick with IBS and getting the tests done etc my Mam didn't tell me. She only let on to me when I was on hols with her in November.
This is what happened this morning-
I phoned home to talk to Mam but Dad answered the phone at 9.50am.
ME>Hi
HIM>(sorrowfully) Hi
ME>(surprised)..OH I was looking for Mam, is she not there?
HIM> She's at work (sigh)
ME>Oh. (lightheartedly) well, you'd want to get up and go to work too, why aren't you there?
HIM>(defiantly)I'm not going to work today
ME> Why?
HIM>(Aggressively)I don't ask you when you don't go to work
why you don't go
ME>(upset at outburst)Sorry, was just trying to show some concern....BYE..(Hangs up)
This may sound like a short, uncontroversial exchange but this really lays down what my Christmas is going to be like.
I want to scream and shout and call him every name under the sun, or maybe cry, I am just so tired of all of this now. 
WONDERFUL!
HO HO HO, can't wait for Christmas!
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S.
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I know how hard it must be with an alcoholic in the family. If he is abusive in any way, your Mam should leave him, but that's her choice. It usually takes alcoholics to hit total bottom before they admit there's a problem. There's not a lot you can do with him in denial. You can support your Mam with the difficulties she's facing, but that's about all you can do. It's up to your Dad to change and it's got to be his decision. Support your Mam. That's about all you can do at this point.
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Formerly HanSolo. IBS, OCD, Bipolar, PTSD times 3.
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BIG HUGE HUGS!!!! Honey I am so sorry this is happing!!! I wish I could give big hugs!! Remmber you have P and he is also your family now!! Enjoy your christmas with him!!! Until your dad wants to change there is nothing anyone can do for him!! I am going to e mail you later today!! Big hugs!!!!!
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Heather7476
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Oh Sinead I wish I could give you a big big hug! I really don't know what it's like to deal with that in your family so I don't have much advice, but having 3 brothers of my own and 2 still younger, I just think the best thing would be for you to make sure that you are there for them because they'll be less effected by it all if they have you I think, and then just make sure you support your mother. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this around Christmas time too. Like Heather said too, P is your family now and the 2 of you should make sure you have a fabulous time together. HUGS HUGS HUGS and I hope this time it doesn't last for very long. Feel free to email me too anytime you want 
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Thanks Han
#131752 - 12/20/04 06:01 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Han, we have just been through this so many times. Mam won't leave because (1) she won't let him get the house,she thinks if she leaves she will never get into it again (2) she thinks it wouldn't be fair to uproot the children. I have been through the argument with her so many times but she just will not listen.
My Dad is a lawyer and when they fight he tells her that she would lose the kids if they split up etc (such a lie) and that she would not get a barring order because he has never hit her and all this kind of stuff.
I have implored her to leave him so many times, but once he sobers up she forgets. That said, when he is sober he is very dismissive of her. I just worry and know that she would have a much better life without him.
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S.
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Sorry you have to deal with this. I don't know what resources there are in Ireland, but in the States, Alcoholics Anonymous has adjunct groups called Alanon, and Alateen, which are for family members of alcoholics. It won't help your dad get better but it might make things easier for you to handle.
You're in my prayers,
Panda
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Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
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Sinéad,
I know you're in a very hard situation. First of all, it won't do you any good to tell your Mam what you think she should do. Just like it won't help telling your father what he should do.
Your Mam's in a difficult spot and it's not easy for some folks to leave a spouse, even when they're so unhappy. Just try to love your Mam as best you can, and let her know you care about her. She must care for you a lot to have kept her own problems hidden from you, to protect you during your own troubles.
And dad? Well, I'd sure play the avoidance game as much as I could. What else can you do? Just be there for your mother and your brothers. Try to get through Christmas as best you can. Wow, it's a hard situation.
There are alcoholics scattered all through my family. But, thankfully, the ones who are still living have stopped the nasty habit and turned their lives around. It can happen, but only when they've had enough of themselves. I also had a grandfather who never changed and he died alone in his apartment. Someone found him there. He had driven away his entire family. So sad, isn't it?
My grandmother was diagnosed with lung cancer and her wish was to die in a bar with her bar friends. And, that's exactly what she did. Also, sad, isn't it?
I had another grandpa who quit drinking and changed and he became the light of my life. But, again, it's up to that person. Just love your family as best you can, and live your own life. Don't let anyone tie you down to their problems and hold you back from being who you need to be. Make sure you don't get too wrapped up in the problems of others to a point where you're not living your own life to the fullest. You have your life, and they have theirs.
And, of course, I'd say pray about it. Hey, it can't hurt!
Good luck to you,
Terri
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Heather
#131765 - 12/20/04 07:23 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Heather, hugs are really needed. I was talking to Mam and she was awake all night worrying about Christmas.
Padhraig will be spending Christmas with his Mum and brothers in Sligo, I will be spending it at home with my family, He will come down on 27th as we are going to a wedding, but its six hours drive for him.
Looking forward to your email later.
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S.
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Brittany
#131767 - 12/20/04 07:36 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Brittany, I will go home, it will just be harder. Its awful to see the way he carries on, but I love spending time with the rest of my family and am not going to let him spoil it.
Hugs gratefully accepted! Like I said to Heather, Padhraig and I are not spending Christmas together, he will be 6 hours drive away but I will see him on 24th and again on 27th so I will survuve.
I am going to concentrate on looking forward to our Paris trip in January!
I am so lucky to have Padhraig to keep me sane!
Thanks for your suppport
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S.
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Awww Sinead that stinks. My mom gets really irrational when she takes to the bottle, too. Ever since she has found out about wine and vodka I have had to get to know her as a different person. it can be tough.
Don't let your Dad get you down on Christmas if he is in a funk, focus on having fun iwth the large wonderful family of yours!
Hopefully your mom can talk some sense into him before the holidays hit 
Good luck
Sending hugs!
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-Sheri
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Hi Sinead,
I'm so sorry you are having to go through this...especially at Christmastime. I really don't know what advice to give you except to avoid your dad for now. He will not change unless he wants to and then he can get some help. I feel so sorry for your Mam. Be there for her the best you can.
I'm sending you hugs
Barbie
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Sinead
#131790 - 12/20/04 08:17 AM
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Well your family is lucky to have you and that's a shame that you and Padhraig won't get to be together for Christmas.
Is it just you and him going to Paris in January?? That is so exciting!! Have you been there before? I went there by myself over the summer on my way back from Italy and it has to be my favorite place in the world! I love it! That is definitely something special to look forward too!
Hugs again and I hope you can enjoy your Christmas!
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panda
#131799 - 12/20/04 08:32 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Panda, I have been trying to get my Mother to go to Al Anon for so long but when he is not drinking she won't. She is very proud & private and we live in a small rural area so its impossible to get her to agree to go.
I went to counselling myself after a huge public fight my Dad picked with me in front of about 80 people at my cousin's 21st birthday party. My doctor recommended a really good book for me about alcohol and the family, written from an Irish context and I bought a copy for my Mum. She has read it but she really does enable Dad's behaviour.
He was banned from driving for a year and she drove him everywhere, and collected him from work,(15 miles each way) the whole time. Dad didn't suffer at all as a result and used it as an excuse to just to pass time in the pub...
Thanks for the support and advice,
Talk later
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S.
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Thanks Sheri
#131800 - 12/20/04 08:33 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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There really is no talking to him though, Mam will fight with him and keep tough but it will just upset everyone. I wish he would just walk out the door.
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S.
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Terri
#131802 - 12/20/04 08:45 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks for your support Terri, I always stand by Mam. Dad is harder to though.
I love my brothers and sisters so much and we really band together on things like this so we will be OK.
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S.
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Barbie
#131805 - 12/20/04 08:49 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks for your hugs, gratefully appreciated!
Just feeling down about it at the moment. Tired too so not able to cope with anything today. And I have been eating chocolate 
13 minutes til I can go home from work!
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S.
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Brittany
#131808 - 12/20/04 08:52 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Quote:
Well your family is lucky to have you aww thanks and that's a shame that you and Padhraig won't get to be together for Christmas. we'll be fine, there are so many of us that its gets overwhelming for people to stay, especially on holidays
Is it just you and him going to Paris in January?? Yes, he got me the trip for our anniversary in October, I am soo excited about it. That is so exciting!! Have you been there before? YES! I used to live there in 1995 and Padhraig and I rang in the new Milennium there but haven't been back since I went there by myself over the summer on my way back from Italy and it has to be my favorite place in the world! I love it too, I was 18 when I lived there, it was so fantastic I love it! That is definitely something special to look forward too!
Hugs again and I hope you can enjoy your Christmas! Thanks Brittany, this talk of Paris has cheered me up, you are a sweetie
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S.
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Re: Oh Sinead
#131811 - 12/20/04 09:06 AM
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michele
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 6886
Loc: southeastern michigan
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I'm so sorry you have to deal with this!! I really don't have too much else to add to what everones else has said but wanted to let you know, you also have my hugs and support!
My biological father was a drunk, used drugs and was abusive to my mom. She left him when I was in the 6th grade. Luckily, I was young enough not to remember a whole lot of it. But now my mom is re-married and her husband isn't exactly a role model. He doesn't drink much but when he does he is very abusive. He is also very jealous. Once when I was 16, he and I got into a fight because of the way he was treating my mom and he actually swing at me. I told my mom that day that she had to choose between him or me and she choose him. It was very difficult. I didn't talk to my mom very much for a few years but now we talk all the time on the phone. I've learned that until she is ready to make a change, nothing I say will matter so I just don't even bring it up anymore. Now I just try to support her as best as I can and know there is nothing else I can do.
Would it do any good if you had your mom talk to a lawyer? Maybe if someone in "power" told her that she wouldn't loose the house or kids she might be more willing to do something? Its a tough situation no matter. Hang in there!
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Taking it one day at a time.....
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*HUGS* When I was 14, I watched my grandmother almost die of alcohol poisoning because she was drinking half a gallon of wine a day. We all knew Nanny was an alcoholic, she refused to admit it herself and get help. It took her almost dying (in front of her granddaughter) for her to admit she had a problem and to get help.
I sincerely hope that your dad realizes he has a problem before something like that happens to him and your family. *HUGS* Hope you enjoy your Christmas even with your family's problems.
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Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
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Re: Oh Sinead
#131821 - 12/20/04 09:42 AM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Michelle.
Re my Mum and the lawyer- i have spoken to her and I am one! I have copied chunks of texts for her to see that he is trying to con her but she won't listen. I wanted her to make an appointment to see one of my friends in a professional capacity but she keeps backing out of it, she is just afraid.
I used to love my Dad, now i tolerate him, isn't that sad?
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S.
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Oh that is really sad Melissa, it really is a horrible illness.
I really don't know what will make my Dad realise, we thought being banned from driving would but no. He also crashed the car when drunk but that had no effect.
He also claims that he is not an alcoholic because he doesn't get sick when he drinks, again pure rubbish. He complains to my mother for not banning my brothers from drinking or getting on to them when they come home drubk after a night partying. He doesn't see the difference.
Thing is he is still a selfish man even when sober, and sometimes a dry alcoholic is just as difficult to deal with.
He denies he has a problem because he can give up drink when he wants to (a classic symptom of an alcholic!) but when I read the book about alcoholism so much of it reminded me of him it was like it was written about him!
Thank you for the hugs, I feel them!
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S.
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Oh that's so exciting! I want to live there so bad! It is just so beautiful. How did you end up living there?
Well I'm glad to have cheered you up I hope you have a great day!
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Hey sinead,
Just wanted you to know that Im also thinking of you and sending loads of hugs...Im so sorry you're having to deal with all of this at this time of year.
Its not seeming to be a great one for a lot of people at the moment...my dads best friend died of cancer last week, so its been really hard for my dad. We knew things werent good, but it wasnt expected so soon. My best friend Jemma(the irish one) has had to go over to achill this week cos her cousin has just been killed in a car accident. And as if that isnt enough, our next door neighbours(an elderly couple), who we're really close to cos my aunty used to be engaged to their son, well hes dying of kidney failure at the moment, theyve said its just a matter of days...my mums really really upset about it...we're just waiting to hear more news. It just seems to be one thing after the other.
I really hope you have a good christmas....I'll be sending xmas wishes your way, I hope the kids have a great day. Take care of yourself and your mam.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<loads of hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>
--------------------
Natalie
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hey sinead
long time no chat...I am so sorry to hear about your dad and the alcohol...so yucky and horrible....I am afraid I have no advice...but seems to me like that was a very good conversation by you..not losing your temper or anything. I really hope he goes through a good phase at christmas...big hugs XXXXXX dalia XXXX
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Feel the fear and do it anyway!
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I did my degree in Law & European Studies, which meant I studied French to degree level. As part of my French studies we had to spend a semester in France either studying in a French university or doing a work placement organised by our uni. I chose to work and for 8 months I worked as a hotel receptionist in a boutique hotel 50 metres off the Champs Elysees. My accommodation was organised by the employment agency so I got to live in an apartment in a beautiful old Parisian building with an inner courtyard in the 16th arrondisement, on a street called Rue de la Tour, (after the Tour Eiffel)
I loved it and due to my work schedule (7am-2pm or 2pm to 9pm) I had lots of time free every day to explore, and I walked the whole city.
Thanks for indulging my reminiscing!
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S.
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-my best and only advice is to stay away from him and not let him ruin the best time of the year.
I say this as a person who's depression was caught in time NOT to develop a drinking problem. However, having been exposed to other people with mental health issues, I know how exasperating an alcoholic can be. -hardly professing to being an expert, but with my experience in Emotions Anonymous (an offshoot of AA), a person usually won't break from the denial when confronted by a loved-one. It has to happen with something in their life. -hopefully with minimal fallout and maximum "damage control."
In the meanwhile, have a great Xmas and try not to let the "affliction" get in the way.
Take care and God (er Higher Power) Bless.
Dumas.
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Hi. I am sorry that you have to go thru this. My father was an alcoholic also (he passed of liver cancer in 1986). Luckily for me he was not a mean drunk, just drank and wanted to be left alone. MY advice to you is YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. Either you stay involved and make your self miserable OR you get out. It may sound harsh but you have to think of YOURSELF and your happiness. I chose to stay away UNTIL my dad finally came around and got help. He was sober the last 3 years of his life. That is all I can really tell you. There is no easy answer or easy way around this, so do for YOURSELF first.
Mona
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thanks nat
#131922 - 12/20/04 02:59 PM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Nat, sounds like you are having an awful week too.
I went to bed when I came home from work as I was really down. I also decided not to call home tonight, even though I was talking to Mam a couple of times during the day, I just figured that I need a little break from it. And bed did that! It is so cold here I had loads of clothes on for my little snooze.
I was up til 1.30 last night stripping wallpaper as BF thinks he might convince the builder to plaster the hall stairs and landing the day after tomorrow as he is unlikely to be starting another job before Christmas, that is the theory anyway.
I am really fed up of having the builders here, we don't even have our Christmas tree up yet (we bought it on Friday, a real one, and it is outside.)
Bf and his younger brother are currently sanding the walls in my hall, its 11pm. The neighbours are gonna hate us so much!
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S.
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Oh boy. Families, gotta love' em. 
I don't know what it's like to live with an alcoholic. It must be very tough on you and your mom.
I don't even know how you can approach a discussion with him or your mom about this.
Hang in there and try to not let HIS problem get you down too much. It's not at all your fault. I hope someone is able to offer you some good advice.
Hugs.
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Thanks SS, Its a tough one that is true.
When I last lived at home my Dad had only started drinking so I really don't have the same experience of it as say my eleven year old brother who has never known a Dad that doesn't drink...
I am really so grateful to everyone for their support and hugs. This is a cyclical thing, the cycles will keep going until either my mother leaves him (highly unlikely) or he gets a serious wake up call. Sometimes I fantasise about him being really badly hurt or something so that the wake up call might come. I know that its awful but he has hurt the six of us and my Mum for so long now, and all he cares about is himself. Like I said earlier, I don't love him any more, I tolerate him. This situation is of his making, and its sad for him. I am 28 years old and have my own house, my own job (which he disapproves of!) and a fantastic boyfriend who understands completely as his Dad is a dry alcoholic (they can be just as difficult to handle as the "wet" ones!)
Thanks again for listening
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S.
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Hi! I've been close to a couple of people with alcohol problems (I was one of them when I was a teenager) and it's a very hard thing to deal with, especially when they don't think there is a problem. I hope that you guys can all work through this as a family. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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Amy
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towards people in my family. It seems the love was lost years ago through misunderstandings, ignorance, and spiritual degeneration. And, I don't think it's a sin to want to stop a toxic influence (even if it's from family) from poisoning one's life. Hopefully, a new kind of love will regenerate if he finds sobriety.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. And, the wisdom to know the difference.
-learned this from Emotions Anonymous (a 12 step program) and (upon reflection) is perhaps the best words I can post for you.
Bob.
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Hi everyone, thanks so much for your support on this and all my venting yesterday, I was just so upset.
Phoned Mam this morning and Dad didn't drink at all yesterday. He even was slightly considerate once he finally got out of bed. He did tell Mam that I had phoned and that I had hung up on him! (I am surprised that he did, it must have had some effect, it wouldn't be something he would boast about!) My family who are at home completely ignored him yesterday, my sister even hoovered and dusted around him. It must have gotten to him that he wasn't the centre of attention.
He got up this morning and was pleasant to Mam and my sister. Mam says its like Jekyll and Hyde. She is in such better form now that he has been sober for 24hours as she hopes he will keep it that way. He even asked her to come to dinner tonight with him and his employees as a Christmas treat.
I know that things are not right by a long shot but we have to live for the moment and it just about looks like this moment might be OK, so fingers crossed that he stays sober til the far side of Christmas.
Thanks again for all your support and advice, its great to have so many friends to turn to at times like this.
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S.
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I feel for you. My dad is very difficult too, he drinks a lot. It will all be easier when you move out, as I recently have, thankfully. I hope you have a good holiday and if you can (and I know it is hard to do) try to brush it off for that day, so you can have a good time. Have a Merry Christmas! -Hugs-
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Ibs-d and fructose sensitive.
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Thanks Dana, its great that people understand. I have moved out already, I haven't lived at home full time in 11 years, but its hard to avoid everything that is going on as I am in very close contact with my Mum and my brothers and sisters.
As I posted today, things are better now, thankfully!
Happy Christmas to you too
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S.
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Hopefully things stay well for you! Good luck!
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-Sheri
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Glad to hear that things are a little better - I guess you should take what you can get and if things are good today, then it's a good day.
It may take him time, but it sounds like maybe slowly he's beginning to see how others don't like how he is and they'll kind of live their lives with or our without him.
I think maybe that all made sense - but anyhow I hope everything works itself out and that you and your mom and your siblings and everyone can still have a great Christmas
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Sinéad,
Thanks. I am glad everything is getting better!(I didn't read all of the posts). I am also very close with my mom, she is my best friend, and you're right it is very hard to avoid things I know. But, I am glad to hear everything is going well! Best wishes to you and your family.
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Ibs-d and fructose sensitive.
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Glad to hear things are seeming better sinead, hopefully everything will be okay for xmas, I really hope so. Its horrible when there's tension at times like this, I hate it when there has been some family argument, I hope that your mam has a great time if she goes to dinner with your dad and that maybe things will be okay, for now atleast. Like Brittany said, maybe your dad is slowly starting to realise things, I hope he does for you mams sake, you sound like you have such a lovely family, I hope things work out for the best.
We found out this morning that our next door neighbour died in the early hours, so things are very sombre around here at the moment. I havent seen any of the family to say anything, theyve closed the curtains and have been inside all day, I think they just need their time to be together. Its just so sad, at xmas of all times.
Take care of yourself and let us know how things are going. Oh by the way....I keep forgetting to ask you....what do you think of the luna bars?? Im having trouble resisting all of mine....isnt heather an angel! 
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Natalie
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Christmas in Ireland...ah, I'm longing for a place far away!
Have a great Xmas and hopefully that very important person will behave himself.
Dumas.
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