Election Day has come and gone....
#118326 - 11/03/04 06:53 AM
|
|
|
|
jules
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 1140
Loc: Michigan
|
|
|
...what's up with Ohio???
(or Ohio-da, as Jon Steward called it)
How late did you all stay up to watch the election? I only lasted until midnight.
I for one, was unhappy with what I saw when I turned the TV on this morning. GRRR!! 
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
me too Jules! (and I am not even in the US!) I stayed up til 2am here watching results. Crazy business!
Keeping an eye on Ohio still..
Sinead
--------------------
S.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Ohio-da had me cracking up!!! I adore Jon Stewart!
~nelly~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Looks like OH went to Bushie.
<Sigh>..... this country was in definite need of a change.
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Yes, now comes Ohiogate, The Recount. Ohio: the new Florida. Don't they have some sort of Univ of Miami in Ohio? Hm...
~nelly~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED. I'm completely and totally ashamed to be an American, and I'm so absolutely furious that I refuse to talk to anyone who voted THAT JERK back into office. (So do me a favor... if you voted for him, don't talk to me right now.)
I didn't watch any of the coverage last night at all. I had promised myself I wouldn't, because I knew it would just make me more agitated than I was bound to be anyway.
I hate being an intelligent and educated voter, because I am often disappointed.
Grrrr....
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I teach right near the Michigan- Ohio border and a lot of my collegues live in Toledo, Ohio. I was giving them a hard time this morning about Ohio being the last state. I asked them if they were going to be the Florida of 2004!! I got a few chuckles and a few looks. All in good fun. I stayed up until 11:00. It was nice to see that more people voted this year. We had a mock election and school and we are holding off our "results" until the real ones come out. Whenever that will be??????????? 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hmm...well it was nice knowing you Casey. I'm sorry you feel that way!
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Hmm...well it was nice knowing you Casey. I'm sorry you feel that way!
Cara your too funny!!! 
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
It doesn't change that I'm upset and angry today, but I'm consoling myself that at least we have term limits... and I'll get over it.
*shrug*
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Casey, you said exactly what I was thinking.
I'm just scared for this country now.
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I think it was a very civil thing of Kerry to concede and not put everyone through waiting for what would most likely still end up being the same result.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Tell us how you realy feel Casey!!!! 
I agree with you 100% except I will still talk to people who voted for the JERK!!!LOL
I am also realy scared for us as a nation now!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm with you too, Casey. Some of my roommates are talking about wanting to move to Canada now....
--------------------
Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
HAHA! I *JUST* asked my hubby when we were going to head up to canada!!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
because of something as petty as political affiliation. I was just really, REALLY upset this morning. Of course, I do kinda feel like a dip for posting while I was so angry, but... *shrug* What can you do, right?
And yeah, I'm really not all that good at hiding what I'm thinking, hah.
I'm very, very scared for us as a nation, too.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Does anyone here thing that something scandalous went on in Ohio? I can't wait for all the stories to come out of this election.
I'm not trying to flame the fire here, I know we all can have a civilized discussion!
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well Cara, I guess you and I can still talk to each other, and a couple others on this thread! 
I haven't agreed 100% with everything Bush has done as president, but I was happy to vote for him yesterday, and happy to see that he won. I am astounded that he won by 3.5 million popular votes though. That's a huge margain. Everyone thought it was going to be so close!
Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
ROTFL!!
#118420 - 11/03/04 09:25 AM
|
|
|
|
|
heather7476
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 2996
Loc: South East Michigan
|
|
|
I figured you were just mad!!!LOL I had to laugh though I don't think I have ever seen that side of you before!!!LOL
I am going to start calling you tiger!!!!!!LOL
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Tiger? Haha. Wanna hear something kooky? My maiden name was Lyons. Rawwwwr!!
Yeah, I was just really hot this morning. Like I said in my first post, I hadn't watched ANY of the election coverage... I wasn't even online last night, other than here... I chose to be totally and completely surprised by the results this morning. And I guess I was. Oh well!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi guys,
I think it's funny that some of you said you wanted to up and move to Canada, 'cause I know a lot (A LOT) of people in Canada who were _really_ hoping the vote would go the other way. And then I know everyone I have spoken to, except my boyfriend's mum, in England wanted Kerry to win as well. My boyfriend's mum wanted Bush because, "I like his face better than that other one"... oy! 
I think just out of curiosity it would be cool if all the countries 'allied' with the US were polled to see who they _would_ have voted for, if other Nations had a say.. not that I think they should actually get that say, just for curiosity. It seems that most places are very Anti-Bush right now. I have a lot of trouble in the UK sometimes because people think I'm American and are quite hostile towards me, it's ridiculous.
I watched that "Farenheight (sp) 9/11" film and thought it was too one sided to take completely to heart BUT if the allegations made in the film are 100% true, then I do feel scared for your country.. and the world over, really. Let's hope not, and that the next 4 years go by without any major disasters!
Good luck!
--Steph
--------------------
~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
thats funny that all us youngins.. ie me, you, cara, and steph are probush.. the media trys its damndest to convince young people to vote democrat. have you watched mtv.. nbc.. or listened to pdiddy.. I thought lots of young people would go the other way cause pdiddy and ben affleck told them to.
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I think it's naive to think that bad things will happen to the US just because Bush is in office. Let's not forget that during the 8 years of Clinton's presidency the world trade center was attacked for the first time (he treated the offendors as criminals instead of terrorists), as was the USS Cole, and the US Embassy in the Sudan. 9/11 was being planned long before Bush was in office. Oddly enough, I seem to think that freezing all the terrorist's money and taking out governments that support terrorism has made the US safer, but that's just one girl's opinion.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well, let's just hope that no matter WHO is in charge that the next several years go by without anything disasterous happening - and I didn't actually mean JUST surrounding any terrorist activity.
--------------------
~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I was surprised by how the numbers of young voters didn't really change after all the hoopla that celebrities like pdiddy and MTV made. I was sure that the young vote was really going to throw it over to Kerry, especially after seeing the overwhelming support of people of my campus for him. Being Pro-Bush doesn't quite go over so well here, but it didn't stop me from wearing my shirts and buttons!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I am not going to go into this to much because i have very strong feelings on this issue,but I just wanted to say that by no means do I blame bush for 9/11!!! Just like I don't blame clinton for the USS Cole or the emmbassy bombings!!!
I just truly do not agree with most of he views and policy's. That is all I am going to say!!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
I am not going to go into this to much because i have very strong feelings on this issue,but I just wanted to say that by no means do I blame bush for 9/11!!! Just like I don't blame clinton for the USS Cole or the emmbassy bombings!!!
I just truly do not agree with most of he views and policy's. That is all I am going to say!!!!
Then that's a really reasonable, responsible rationale for voting for or against someone. Everyone is entitled to her own opinion, and I'm glad yours is based on your actual opinions of Bush's policies, not on something irrelevant. I made my choice based on the same things -- I just happen to agree with most of what Bush stands for.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You go, girl. I know how hard it is to be a republican on a college campus.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
That is why I love living in this country!! Everyone is entitlted to thier views!!!We can agree to disagree and still be friends!!!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Yeah the margain was huge! I was not surprised. I am pro-Bush, and I consider myself a VERY educated voter....I did not grow up Republican, I came to a decision myself based on my beliefs.
Everyone has their own opinion, yes, but I don't think it's right to put people down because of their beliefs. I don't judge people for what they believe, and I'm not going to act crazy and go set fire to all the people who voted for Kerry. It was a fair vote, and I would have said that no matter who won.
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
And so disapointed in voters and our system.. not just about Bush- though why oh why did Kerry concede before they had OH results????
but about the MI gay marriage bill that passed and has now not only gone against gay marriage- which I care deeply about but more importantly and why I was campaigning so heavily against the bill- IT TOOK AWAY EXISTING DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP BENEFITS WITHIN THE STATE FOR ANYONE, INCLUDING HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES! inheritance and medical issues will now abound.. the bigger one is that we go from many without medical insurance to many more without it now!
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
oh god.. I know.. I live in massachusetts.. land of democrats.. (although suprisingly they have a repulblican governer who won by alot.. i think its because the democrat option was a woman)but thats another story. Anyways.. you talk about bush here and they'll just about tell you your the biggest loser in the world. It is tough.. I just keep my mouth shut.
Yesterday in class, our teachers said you get 10%added to your grade if you voted.. and 25% if you voted for kerry the good guy. oh please.
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I am so suprised about that as well. They spent tons of money on VOTE OR DIE.. CHOSE OR LOSE.. young people pick america and I heard on TV that in 2000 only 18% of people 18-30 voted.. and that this year.. once again only 18% voted. suprisingly it didnt' really influence anything.
Although.. I do no some people that purposely didn't want to vote to see if pdiddy would really show up at their door and kill them. hehe
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
AMIE!!!!!
#118459 - 11/03/04 10:30 AM
|
|
|
|
|
heather7476
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 2996
Loc: South East Michigan
|
|
|
I could not agree with you more!!! I am so upset that that dam bill passed!!! I can't not belive we are still such a anti gay country!!! It is just stupid if you ask me!!!
LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
It's sad to think people base their decision to vote on what the celebs. are thinking!!! Get a brain!!!! Think for yourself!!!
To me Moral are very important in voting too!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Spicey
#118461 - 11/03/04 10:33 AM
|
|
|
|
|
heather7476
Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 2996
Loc: South East Michigan
|
|
|
Ok I am a Kerry supporter but what your teacher did was so WRONG!!!!! I think I would have reported him!! He has no right to hold your grades over you!!! Shame on him!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I know I agree.. but.. my program has 16 people in it.. only two of which are from massachusetts. so I think he noted that some of us were not amused and later said he was joking. hmmm.. who knows if he really was though orginally?
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm starting to calm down... and I must say, that I am sincerely scared for the nation, and the rest of the world. I don't blame Bush for 9/11, but I do blame him for what happened since then. And I blame him for the things that are happening inside the military. And I don't support his beliefs.... I don't like that he is trying to get "religion"(read as CHRISTIANITY) back into places where it doesn't belong. I don't agree with his "plan" to fix those who are jobless... I come from WA state, a logger place, and the industry got put down because... well, spotted owls! I marched against that when I was only 10 yeasr old!! Was on the news... what they did to "fix" the loggers who lost their jobs was send them to community college (what Bush wants to do) They ended up with little better than high school quality education and working either at McD's, Wal Mart or going on Welfare... which brings me to the fact that I cannot tolerate Bush's views on welfare, women's RIGHTS (that's right, I said it... women should be able to choose!) I am *personally* against abortion, but I would never presume to tell someone else what to do! That is a Christian based thing, and I am not a Christian... ohhh... okay, guess I'm not cooled off... sorry, I'm against Bush on so many levels, that I actually cried this morning .... 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
that too, but this hurts because my MIL loses her insurance off her longtime other half. Steve and MIL haven't legalized a marriage because he doesnt' want to take over the father role for her kids.. but she has been on his insureance since her medical retirement..
Amie
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
'Manda (as I used to call my best freind Amanda from high school) - You are close to ground zero and I can now see the capitol building outside of my office window - I too, am glad that the country is safer today than it was on September 10, 2001! Election day 2004 - not a bad day!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I AM ELATED AT TODAY'S NEWS!!!!
--------------------
God is Faithful!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree that those of us who were close to an attack on 9/11 have strong opinions on national security. I was still a junior in college (Bucknell in PA) on 9/11/2001, but my brother ran for his life that day and thankfully was okay. He worked in the world financial building, adjacent to the WTC. My other brother and my sister in law were also in NYC that day. I thank God every day that they are all okay, and I am SERIOUS about making sure it never happens again. That's why I couldn't vote for someone who as a senator voted to cut military spending.
Panda
--PS, I read your profile. You have my best friend's dream job. Also I'm just curious how the climate was in your office today -- I find the Human Rights field to be somewhat dominated by the Left. Would you agree? Were you odd-man-out?
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
'Atta girl!
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm surprised that New York voted for Kerry. Why do you think that was. You'd think more New Yorkers would have AmandaPanda's views.
I'm just curious...
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I've just finished reading this thread, and I am so glad to be a part of a chat board that can express different opinions civilly!! Yesterday was eye opening as a watcher! I think it is sad that such a role is necessary, but it IS!! I was there on my feet 14 hours, giving up a personal day of work for NO PAY, and would gladly do it again! Ours is a small community and our state carried Bush easily by a large margin, but it was because of a lot of hard work and sacrifice!
We live in a GREAT country ladies!! As long as we are involved, learning, voting based on our beliefs and educatin ourselves on issues...that's what it's all about no matter what side of the isle you vote on! BRAVO to all of us!!
--------------------
God is Faithful!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
At least it is only a 4 year term. In other countries it is sometimes much more. 
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
YES!!! I agree with you completely, bama!!!
go us!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Boy, am I tired but was happy with today's results. I need a hell of a lot of sleep though. I was up until about 3am or so.
I don't know what was up with my state (NY). I voted for President Bush. I did not agree with everything he has to say but I think he can protect us better. I have a lot of faith that he can help heal the rifts in this country. He is going to have to try his best and I think he will do so. Kerry is a good man but I just didn't think he had what it took be Commander in Chief.
And yes, it is nice to see people express their views civilly on these boards.
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You can always bet that NY will vote Democrat. I'm surprised that national security is not more important to a lot of New Yorkers, but here are my thoughts as to why they didn't vote for Bush.
1) Bush failed to make a clear connection between terrorism and Iraq. People were afraid of another 9/11 but didn't see the removal of Saddam Hussein as related to that.
2) In NYC, the majority of people are not religious and would identify with Sunshyne's point of view that she expressed above, with regards to abortion, and gay marriage. Kerry, by the way, is also against gay marriage.
3)Those New Yorkers who do identify themselves as religious are mostly Jewish, and for some reason Jewish people traditionally vote Democrat. Maybe someone else can guess why that is. Bush has pretty strongly supported Israel (actually one of the places where my opinions depart slightly from Bush's, but not completely), so I would think Bush had a chance of swaying the Jewish vote, but I guess not.
4) NYC is very multi-ethnic, and ethnic minorities (Blacks and Hispanics especially) generally vote Democratic. Again, not sure why. The strong exception is the Cubans, who almost always vote Republican.
5) This is a generalization, but in general many NY'ers, especially in Manhattan, tend to be either very wealthy or very poor. Both groups tend to vote heavily Democratic. Look at the election map. Bush got all the middle-america, working-class, rural/industrial states. Kerry got all the urbane, cosmopolitain states. Just the way it is.
These are just my opinions and I could be wrong -- it happens once in a while
--Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks Amanda, for sharing those thoughts. That makes sense to me.
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Amanda
#118513 - 11/03/04 11:23 AM
|
|
|
|
|
TommyNY
Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1530
|
|
|
I need to find a SINGLE girl in this city who thinks like you!! You know where I could find one?!?!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Awwwwwwwwww you are so cute. Flattery will get you everywhere.
I would never insult you by offering one of the evil witches I go to law school with, but if I meet someone else, she's all yours!
She's out there, don't worry -- a nice guy like you can't stay single forever!
Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks Panda. I always blush when I get a compliment. This city is crazy sometimes!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
There is so much talk now about Rudy Giuliani perhaps running for the next election and I was just curious what you all thought about that. I really think that he would be a great next candidate - especially since he seems to hold popularity across party lines. I even heard this morning that there's talk of Cheney stepping down as VP at some point during this term and then Bush would appoint Giuliani (with approval of course). And then Guiliani might run the next election with Condaleeza Rice. I think that would be a fine match. I too was surprised to see that New York voted so overwhelmingly for Kerry.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Ashley, you're a better person than me. I live in liberal NYC but I never let someone try and force their views on me. I can argue civilly and most of the time I won't say anything unless they are talking directly to me.
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I am a huge fan of Guiliani. It's amazing what he did in NYC, even way before 9/11. Times Square is a very different place than it was before he was mayor.
Your message is the first I've heard of Bush replacing Cheney with Guliani. I do like Cheney so I don't know how I'd feel about that, but I'd like to see what Guliani supports for foreign policy. I'm starting to wonder if ANY American President has what it takes to create peace between Israel and Palestine, since no other country or multi-national organization has accomplished anything.
That being said, if Guliani ran I would definitely support him. However, I don't think he'd take Rice as a running mate. Sad as it may be, I doubt a black woman has much of a chance. We haven't had a black VP or a woman VP (though we have had a woman VP candidate, Geraldine Ferraro, in the 80's), so the odds that a black woman would become VP before a black man, or before a white woman, are very slim. I do love Rice though. I'd love to see a race betweeen Guliani and Hilary Clinton, and, in such a situation, I think having Rice as a running mate might make some sense, since the woman thing would be less of an issue.
OK my 2cents are adding up fast on this board today. Sorry folks.
--Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Fox news just mentioned the possibility of Guliani being offered a cabinet position, but wouldn't comment on which one. We'll see.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Amanda, keep throwing your 2 cents in. I'm loving it. If you were single I would just propose right now!!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
...on the radio where I heard all of this this morning, they were saying that it would be the two of them against Hilary Clinton. It's probably all pretty hypothetical, but I just think that would make for a very interesting election. I can just see all the strategy that would go into all of it: picking a female VP to counteract Hilary, but then the fact that she's black would gain other support. Politics is so fascinating. I too would be sad though to see Cheney step down. He is so so intelligent and I have even more respect for him after hearing him in the debates and getting to know what he is about even more.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Honestly, my heart goes out to you. All of my single friends always complain about how hard it is to meet someone worthwhile in the city. My bf lives in London so I am out with "just the girls" all the time, and we always talk to guys, and I have NEVER met anyone I'd want to talk to for more than 10 minutes. The subject of my boyfriend usually comes up (especially if the guy is annoying) but eve when I don't bring him up, and the guy I'm talking to thinks I'm single, there is never any chemistry, ever. It's slim pickin's out there. The only thing I can say is I hope you're not trying to meet your dream girl in a bar. I don't know any happy relationships that started out that way! (I met my bf when I was 14, at summer camp. He's my older brother's best friend. Complicated and pretty sticky at first, but that's the way to meet real people -- through friends, family, and common interests!)
Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I thought Cheney was amazing in the debate. His depth of knowlege is incredible. It was like watching a college professor, or an author, yet he avoided coming off pompous and uber-intelligent like Kerry did in the presidential debates.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Its ok Amanda. I'll be fine. I am not trying to find Ms. Right at the pub anyway. I am 28, that is still young. See my thing is if I meet someone at a bar and she has a BF I will probably keep talking to her. That doesnt dissuade me too much because I like meeting new people and making new friends. My buddies think I am crazy but hey, they don't run my life.
We'll see what the future holds for me!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
On the human rights crowd - it's a really mixed bag. You end up working with people from accross the spectrum, which is part of what makes the job interesting. I've worked with Members of Congress who are as liberal as Nancy Pellosi from San Francisco and as conservative as former Senator Jesse Helms from North Carolina! They all just happen to agree that the US has failed to commit addequate resources to advancement of human rights in China!!! So some of us are happy today and others are disappointed - we know our agenda remains that same either way though.
This thread has been really interesting - and like everyone else I'm glad to see us talking about our personal views with such a degree of civility! Democracy works - don't you agree!
Min
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I think that would be great if Rudy Giuliani ran. I would definalty vote for him! He really helped clean up NY!
--------------------
Ibs-d and fructose sensitive.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree with Tommy. Good for you Ashley!
--------------------
Ibs-d and fructose sensitive.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I am right there with you. I was watching the returns on Fox News last night listening to the reporters talk about how the Young 18-30 vote was going to give the Presidency to Kerry, thinking to myself "Not all of us."
--------------------
lovejoy_22
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Guys, please keep going I am loving listening to your debates, its like a social study for me!
The media run away with themselves so much and I find Michael Moore to be entertaining (I enjoyed Bowling for Columbine) but I really think he went too far with Fahrenheit 9/11; it was lazy and took advantage of the emotions of that poor lady whose son was killed. Interesting about Disney dropping it though...
I have always been fascinated with US politics (ours isn't so interesting here)
Sinead
Sinead
--------------------
S.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Casey
#118590 - 11/03/04 12:59 PM
|
|
|
|
Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
|
|
|
I came online cos I couldn't bear to watch his victory speech! Simon's watching that as he's pro-Bush!
As someone who studied meteorology and climate for years, anyone who could just say stuff the environment like Bush did won't get my support (i was gonna say vote and then I thought...well, duh, Linz, they don't anyway! ). America is one of the countries that are going to be totally f**ked by global warming and Bush probably sped it up.
I was also against going to war in Iraq on the grounds we did. I think toppling Saddam Hussein was right. Misleading the country as a Bush-led Tony Blair did was so wrong in my book. ANd if he didn't know what he was saying was total b**locks, then I have even less respect for his government. I don't see anyone trying to topple dictators who commit horrific abuses when they don't affect the US.
Anyway, I'm not going to think about this now as I'm too darn stressed anyway. Politics makes me MAD!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree Sinead. I was very disappointed in F9/11. He had such a great opportunity to get information out and he basically tried to play on people's emotions. I was bummed that it was not a better film.
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
well worded and accurate.. but I can tell you why Jews tend to vote Democrat other then the above- many fall in categories you already mentioned.. but even if not:
Jews have often been oppressed by the majority, which traditionally has been the more right wing part of society... they also tend to be more liberal in views due to being more open to others, again in part because of their own oppression.. We as a people want rights that many times over history have been refused us.. even here in the US originally it was white male LANDOWNERS who got to vote, and Jews weren't allowed to own land. There are other things as well.. and of course there is the oppression of the crusades and WW2, and more recently all the issues with Israel- its the ONLY place JEWS can safely be guaranteed rights no matter what- even the US refused to grant jews who were trying to escape europe and the camps admittance during WW2- and people try to give it to the arabs, who have other states.. personally I think there should be a peaceful resolution, but I dont' see it coming anytime soon.
Amie
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
9/11
#118600 - 11/03/04 01:17 PM
|
|
|
|
khyricat
Reged: 08/05/04
Posts: 3612
Loc: Michigan
|
|
|
I think we all have personal tales. I'm from NY.. and my father was in the trade centers earlier that day.. and 2 cousins worked in them at the time it fell.. and 2 close friends from high school didn't survive... the saddest part of that was that Chris didn't see more of his youngest- she was born 2 days earlier and since his in laws were in town he went back to work that day figuring he'd take time off when they left to help around the house. He never came home. For a few hours we thought we had lost my father and some other people as well.
There are so many tales to tell, but part of me can't help but think that Bush' madness isn't the solution either.. he seems to be blatantly singular focused and many people I know in the military, including the retired 3 star general father of a close friend agree that he isn't the best thing.. oddly many voted for Kerry!
Amie
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
remind me of my sister's a few years ago and of some of her friends more currently.. and Tommy- I'll ask my sister if any of her friends might qualify but most of them are jewish and all teh ones I know tend to blow democrat... She did meet the right guy... at work! sorta- she is a teacher and had taken a second job for some extra cash for awhile at the JCC working membership desk and he was a member... and he was persistant (she knew him for a year before she said yes because one of her friends had dated him and not liked him, but then when she got to know him she realized why they clashed... and why he's perfect for her... ) The right woman will come along Tommy.. I'd introduce you to a friend of mine if she was going to be in NY again but right now she's in MI- her views are more like yours!
Amie
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
as a jewish woman who believes in a womans right to choose though I wouldn't make that choice.. and that jobs come from hard work, education, but that CC isn't the answer... I agree wholeheartedly.. and I'm one who lost a job and did evnetually find one during this administration.. at half the salary... and I can't find anythign that pays more to even consider applying for lately... and I know a ton of people still unemployed.. many of them with masters and doctorates!
Amie in MI at the moment.
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I really hope he was joking. I can't imagine any educator (particularly one with grad students) saying that for real. But who knows, people do appalling things all the time. In my class we pretended the election never happened (and when we had class at 8 this morning it wasn't like there was a result anyway).
I'm glad the election is over. I hate knowing what other people's politics are. I try to avoid the conversation because it does make me think of less of people, and I'd rather like them for other qualities they possess.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Linz
#118633 - 11/03/04 02:21 PM
|
|
|
|
|
SLiCKsGiRL
Reged: 06/20/04
Posts: 428
Loc: Western Washington
|
|
|
I agree - politics makes me furious, too! I get all flustered just listening to it ... I voted, I'm not happy with the result but my one consolation is that at least Bush is a known entity (oh, and I don't think the American people would tolerate any more crap than we've already gotten).
Whenever someone asks me about my views, I just say "Nun-ya!" as in none of your business!
Off to growl and fold laundry ...
--------------------
~*Amber*~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well, I'm going wade into this discussion. I will say I'm very pleased that it's been a civil discussion, and while everybody isn't agreeing with each other, someone has already mentioned, that's the great thing about a democracy as you can actually state your political views.
And for anybody that wants to come live in Canada, you're more than welcome!
Someone wondered what the outcome would be if people from other countries could have voted. They actually did a world wide poll, and except for Russia, Thailand and one or two more countries, Kerry would have won by a landside. Should this sway American's opinions? Yes and no. Obviously Americans want to look out for their own interests first. Every government is responsible to its citizens first and foremost. But still, the opinions of your allies should be taken into consideration.
If your friends are all telling you that doing something is a bad idea. Shouldn't you at least stop to examine the idea first before you say "F*#$ You" I'll do it myself?
I find it amazing that in a mere 4 years, George W was able to change the world's deepest sympathy (post 9/11) into international dislike.
I also find it strange that most Americans state that they feel safer with Georgie. I understand how scary it would be to have a terrorist attack on your own soil. I fly a lot and when I visited NYC in 1998, I stayed in the WTC Marriott hotel. However, I'll tell you now. Most of these added security measures at airports don't really do much. If there was a determined terrorist he/she could still cause lots of problems. Armed guards at the doors may make you feel safer, but they really don't do anything. I imagine a lot of these new measures don't really make the average American safer from an attack, yet they do infringe upon your basic rights and freedoms. I highly recommend reading 1984 and a Brave New World.
If Kerry were elected would he suddenly make the world a better place? Not likely. However, this US Vs the rest of the world attitude that Bush is demonstrating will cause more and more people to dislike the US. And if you have more and more people dislike you, you are NOT safer. I think you have to look at the cause of the problem.
I have a number of American friends. I have travelled extensively through out the states and really enjoy it. Overall I find Americans very friendly and I am happy that we have the USA as a neighbour.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Dear J,
Just had to respond to this one...
First, glad that you mentioned the way you feel about us Americans vs. the way you feel about our current administration - most do seem to make that distinction. However I must also note that on that list of countries that would prefer that John Kerry won the presidency were leaders such as Kim Jong Il, whom Kerry said he would reward with fuel reactors for more empty promises from a regime that could easily be likened to that of Nazi Germany. Our allies in the war on terror number nearly as many today as they did during the Gulf war (Desert Storm). Also, when I talk about fealing safer with Bush as President, I'm not talking about a few extra gaurds in my airport - I'm talking about money committed to the department of defense and to the department of Justice so they can do their jobs to prevent the terrorists from getting to us in the first place - it means a whole lot to me that we have not faced a second major attack on US soil since September 11 - and believe me - it is certain that the terrorists have tried - I have freinds and a husband who works in intellegence and there is no doubt. Not to be accusatory here, because like you, I'll distinguish between your gov. and your population - I think Canadians are great allies to the US - but your border does leak like civ and were we to get more terrorists in this country they'd probably walk over from Montreal! I have read 1984 and Brave New World - I've also lived in China, so don't even try the metaphor - I knew it too well once. I don't think Bush is presenting an attitude of US vs. the rest of the world - it's the US vs. the terrorists - we'll do anything we need to stop them and so far what he's done has worked. That was enough to keep my vote.
I'll step off my Washington soap box now - just had to clarify some things...
Min
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Boy, am I tired but was happy with today's results. I need a hell of a lot of sleep though. I was up until about 3am or so.
I don't know what was up with my state (NY). I voted for President Bush. I did not agree with everything he has to say but I think he can protect us better. I have a lot of faith that he can help heal the rifts in this country. I am sorry but I so don't agree with that comment!! In my view he is the one who started a great deal of the rifts!! But that is just me!! He is going to have to try his best and I think he will do so. Kerry is a good man but I just didn't think he had what it took be Commander in Chief.
And yes, it is nice to see people express their views civilly on these boards.
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I find it absolutely fascinating that people in other countries are suggesting that they know what is best for the American people. I did vote for Kerry because I disagree with Bush's decision to invade Iraq.
It seems to me that the term "leader of the free world" really has some substance to it after all. Pretty sad.
There are many people starving in the world, genocides being committed, brutal oppression of women, etc. I think the international community should be more actively involved in these issues rather than worrying which rich white guy is in the White House.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
I find it absolutely fascinating that people in other countries are suggesting that they know what is best for the American people.
IRONIC...the US seems to think IT knows what is best for the rest of the world...Afghanistan, Iraq....
Everyone has the right to vote for who they want but also to have an opinion on things that may or may not directly affect them.
Which rich white guy is in the White House is important to the rest of the world as we will have our leaders sucking up to them and their policies for oil and trade links.
Ireland didn't support the war in Iraq, but our Leader's popularity plummeted when he welcomed Bush on a state visit in June, Tony Blair the UK Prime Minister sold out to Bush and is under serious pressure to maintain popularity in the US, even though he was elected to a landslide.
I guess you are right though, at the end of the day the policies don't really change that much from President to president and the same industry leaders are in charge as always were.
OK, off my soapbox now...sorry for lowering the tone
Sinead
--------------------
S.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Despite all of your views, America has spoken. And Bush got more votes than any President ever elected to the office. I think he deserves more respect than some people are giving him. I respect Kerry, and I would not have been growling and upset if he had won. I would not go tell people I'm running off to Canada. What kind of a message does it send out to other countries when people bad mouth the President? It was a majority vote, and he won. Now we just have to learn how to respect him, no matter what our opinions are. Could you run the country through these tragic years?
So for all of you saying you're going to run off to Canada, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
~ Rachel (IBS-C)
If life hands you lemons, make lemonade!!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Cara- I agree
#118705 - 11/03/04 04:09 PM
|
|
|
|
|
cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
|
|
|
I agree Cara, the citizens of a country have a right to choose their leader democratically, and should accept the result. At least this time the electoral votes and popular vote went the same way We all have the freedom to choose and the right to vote and we are lucky to have this.
I was just defending outsiders'(like me) having an interest in what happens over there in my post.
This IBSer needs to go to bed it's after midnight here!
Talk to you all tomorrow!
Sinead
--------------------
S.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
The way I look at it, America is in a lose-lose proposition. When the world asks us to solve a problem, we do it and still get our reputation sullied. When we don't do anything we get asked "Well why didn't America do something?"
We'll never be universally liked. I do agree President Bush has to do a better job of forging alliances in his second term. I strongly feel he has learned from his mistakes and will work with other countries to forge alliances to deal with the simmering problems of N. Korea and Iran. I also firmly believe he will not allow other countries to dictate our own security. This is why I voted for him.
As far as my basic freedoms and rights go, I have not ad any infringed upon. I work in the securities industry and think teh Patriot Act is a wonderful tool to capture terrorists. This Act has done an excellent job of stopping terrorist funding. If that prevents another 9/11 then I am all for it.
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
it was about the state (we're on the border) voting against a gay marriage bill that took away existing HETEROSEXUAL domestic partnership rights along with all rights to gays. He felt like people voting without reading the complete things and knowing the verbage or even caring they saw one sentence and that was it!
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Heather- I feel the same way you do.. but I can see where people can see otherwise too- there are a lot of issues at stake.. I just hate seeing record turnout to discover people voted without knowign what they were voting for (I heard people admit this at work after hearing what the Bill they voted yes on will do!!!! I've been actively campaigning against it (even at work) for months!)
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree- things aren't as much more secure as people think- with relatives in teh air marshals and in customs... I know this more then most.. if I can when I fly its El-Al- thats the only truly safe thing, but its still statistically safer then a car, despite everything.. I don't think whats been done really made a huge impact on our nations safety as much as on the IMPRESSION of safety people have... sad to say. One of Suzy's jobs is to sneak aboard aircraft with weapons.. sadly she's rarely caught and people do lose their jobs and get reprimanded, etc.. but the next person testing security gets through too.. she's proven it again and again... Ah well... what can we do???
--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I apologize for the tone of my post. The policies of the US clearly affect people all over the world. It was Tony Blair's speeches that had me supporting the war (in the beginning), he seemed so earnest and committed. I didn't trust Bush, but I figured that if the UK supported the war that there must be something to the sense of urgency. To see him stick to his message when there was so much political risk was refreshing.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I feel for those same reasons that we as a country are safer under Bush. I find it so funny about what's going on in Iraq that people are so opposed to it (and I have several friends that are marines and in other military units) but when the whole 9/11 commission thing was going on, people kept saying that if we had any sort of knowledge that led us to believe that our country was in danger of an attack, that we should have done something before they struck us. That seems odd to say that and then be so against Iraq - I am quite sure the government and intelligence groups know a lot more than they tell us and if they thought that Iraq was somehow a threat then what do you think Bush is doing--he's taking preemptive measures. That's just my take on it all. And as for other countries not supporting our efforts, I think a lot of that has to do with influence from "bigger" countries like France and Russia on others. It was quite interesting to learn too that when all that news in the past couple weeks about the reserves that were missing and thought to have been gone all along, may have been a big part of the reason that France and Russia were not willing to be part of the coalition since that ended up showing links with Iraq to both of those countries not too long ago. Well that's all I've got to say! And no matter who the president is and who you voted for, I definitely think that a certain level of respect is due to that office. Hope everyone is having a good night!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Maybe that line of reasoning works for you, but it doesn't work for me. Bush has never had my respect, does not have it now, and never WILL have it. I cannot respect a man who (1) has led us into a war on false pretenses, (2) has taken us from a budget surplus to a 5 trillion $ deficit, (3) has completely destroyed our economy, and (4) is taking away our civil liberties one at a time. As a pro-choice young woman who fully supports gay marriage (and all other equal rights for EVERYONE), I cannot respect his or his party's views on those issues. And I'm not even going to get into my issues with him from the first time around.
I don't worry about what sorts of impressions other countries are getting from anything I say... GWB does a fine job of giving his own impression, and all of my foreign friends are genuinely saddened and horrified right now.
Do I think Kerry is just altogether fabulous? Actually, no. But I still felt he was the better choice by the time I voted, and I will continue to feel that way.
And that's it. I'm done being mouthy about the whole thing, and I'm going to go back to my nice quiet helpful self, because getting all ruffly over politics with people I like is seriously just not "me".
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Oh my gosh! Did anyone watch the Saturday Night Live special on Monday night making fun of the two candidates????
It was hilarious! The guy doing Bush had him down to a tee!
--------------------
~~~Lisa~~~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I've said it once and said twice.....politics and religion....cause such controversy! I've read some of the posts and can't read all but I agree that I am proud to live in a country that has freedom of speech and choice. The president has been picked , it's done, it's over with and it is what it is. We can only hope for the best to come out of this.
My theory is kinda like when at my son's baseball games all the parents have their two cents in about how the coach did this wrong and didn't put this kid in and complain, complain, complain. If they wanna be coach next year, then they should sign their little butts up. That way they can see how it feels to be coach and make decisions wether they are right or wrong. If anyone thinks they can run the country better than by all means in 4 years run for president!
P.S. Not saying who I voted for, for fear some people on the board won't speak to me anymore and I'd miss ya! ha ha
--------------------
~~~Lisa~~~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Despite all of your views, America has spoken. And Bush got more votes than any President ever elected to the office. I think he deserves more respect than some people are giving him. I respect Kerry, and I would not have been growling and upset if he had won. I would not go tell people I'm running off to Canada. What kind of a message does it send out to other countries when people bad mouth the President? It was a majority vote, and he won. Now we just have to learn how to respect him, no matter what our opinions are. Could you run the country through these tragic years?
So for all of you saying you're going to run off to Canada, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Love it Cara!!! You said that so well!!! WE all need to learn to live with it....we all have another 4 yrs....lets try and make the best of it!!!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Ok, ok, EVERYONE is allowed to talk to me... LOL! I'm sorry I'm so hot-headed first thing in the morning. I should probably not be allowed on the boards before I've had my Lexapro and my morning cuppa tea, either!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Who are you talking about? Casey?
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I just noticed you're from Sarasota, my family and I used to go there every summer!! I LOVE IT THERE!! I'm so jealous that you actually LIVE there. It's beautiful. *tear* I want to go back.
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well I agree with you that it is over and we need to move on, but I feel need to say this!!
I do not feel the need to respect Bush!!
We are a middle class famliy and he sure as heck does not respect us, buy trying to take away our overtime pay!!
I am a women, and I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT HAPPENS TO MY BODY!!! I do not feel that anyone has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body!!!
I also don't belive that just because two people are in a same sex relationship that are not entitled to the same freedoms and rights as everyone else!! We are not their Judges and this is the whole purpose of sepration between Church and state!! It not my bussiness if they are married or not and I don't see why everyone is so against it!!!
I also didn't see any respact coming from Bush towards the UN! We are not the rulers of this world and he seems to think that we are!!!
These are just my views and if you don't agree than that is your RIGHT!! I just felt the need to express them!! I don not want to make any one mad or upset but that is the way I feel!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Edited by heather7476 (11/03/04 06:33 PM)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Amen sweetie. Especially about the right to choose, and the support for gay marriage. Even though I am in a traditional heterosexual marriage I feel badly for friends of mine who don't want to push their lifestyle on anyone, they just want partner benefits. But I don't attribute that to Bush. The anti-gay rights stuff is totally separate. I just think of it as reactionary backlash to ideas that will happen within our lifetimes. At least I hope.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Really?? How funny! It really is a great place to live - a little hot right now though (in the upper 80's) but it's good for the beach all year long! You should definitely come back to visit!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I completely agree Steven (hope that's your name)... blaming all of the atrocities in the world on our leadership is ridiculous, like the rest of the world isn't equal or greater to us economically in influence if they get it together. It's clear that socially progressive leadership isn't coming from our nation, that's not what our country believes in or supports (as a majority). So stop looking to where the big films come from and get the agendas together without us while you need to.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I respect your views, Heather...really I do. I do not agree, but again that is the freedom we have, and why the majority of votes rules.
Kerry is not in support of gay marriages either though.
I do not have a personal problem with gay people - I don't think it's right - but I'm not going to condemn someone for it. I do not think they should be able to get married...I'm sorry. Marriage is a vow between a man and a woman - it should not be changed.
As far as pro-choice...I used to be, until I had a very long talk with someone who was pro-life, and it really changed me. I don't see why that baby should have any less rights that you have. I feel like killing a one month old is like killing a 10 year old. Now as far as rape is concerned, I wouldn't have a problem with abortion - HOWEVER, abortions resulting from rapes is less than 1% of the abortions in the world, so it can't be based on that. There are so many woman out there who are desparate to be mothers, and would love to adopt a baby. And partial birth abortions?!? Let's not even go there...
Bush does not think he is the leader of the world, he is a very educated, moral man, and I really respect him. I am a christian, yes, so a lot of my views are based on morals.
Thanks for sharing your views w/o being rude!! I love ya and I don't want to start fights over this, it's something that probably never should have been brought up in the first place.
~Cara
--------------------
~Cara~
Edited by Cara4503 (11/04/04 05:52 AM)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hey Mindy, Thanks for the reply
You brought up some very good points, and the fact that you have lived in China and have been able to compare different ways of life is both fasinating and refreshing.
My first thought is with regards to Bush's Us vs. The Terrorists, or "Evil doers" attitude. To often it seems that Bush makes it seem as 'You're either for us, or for the terrorists' which I think is silly. There are other ways to react. Just because someone doesn't support the measures that The President has taken, doesn't mean that they want Osama to set up camp in Idaho. I'm not saying that I think every single thing that Bush has done is wrong, but I do think that overall, there are better ways to solve things than the way Bush has. (but seeing as I'm not born in the US and am not over 40, I can't be President)
With regards to the border. Americans and Canadians alike are proud of the border. I do not think that it is a bad idea that the US has increased its border patrol services and increased co-operation between customs officials on each side. However, the terrorists who piloted the planes for 9/11 not only passed through US customs talking to US officals, they also did their flight training in the US.
I totally agree with Tommy that the US is in a difficult situation in international affairs. No matter what it does, somebody is bound to get upset.
If you, as an American citizen are comfortable with the new broad ranging powers that the government has to thwart the evil doers, then great! For me, I guess I'm lucky that I don't have to worry about it, cause giving the government the ability to pass over many of the checks and balances between the judicial and legislative branches of government written into the constitution, would worry me.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion And I do realize that while I'm expressing my opinion, it is simply that. There's nothing I can do to change the outcome of the election (unless of course enough members of the electoral college change their minds). The American people have spoken, used the tools of democracy and elected a president.
Cheers to that!
Jamie
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'll add to this abortation issue. I am pro-life even with rape and incest. I know a few people who were raped and one is a friend of mine, and they are raising their children. Generations of inbreeding will cause defects - not first generation.
The woman who brought the Roe vs. Wade suite now is Pro-life. I have friends and there are people on this board who are having trouble getting pregnant. My friends would take an unwanted baby from a mother who wants to abort.
They other thing that bothers me about abortation is that teenage girls don't have to have parental consent to have an abortation. Women have died from botched abortations, including teenagers. I work at a hospital and no medical procedures can be performed on a minor without parental consent, but a doctor can perform a medical procedure (an abortation on a minor without a parent's knowledge). THAT is wrong!!!
I also find it intersting Scott Peterson is being tired for a double murder. According to pro-choice a fetus isn't a baby, so why are people being tried for murder of an unborn baby?
Those who are pro-choice may not realize John Kerry is pro-life. He represents a party that believes women should have the right to choose an abortation, therefore he votes in the laws to protect that right. I find it diffcult to respect a man who can not stand up to his own party.
One final note, if I haven't made any enemies, is I am raising three awesome boys. The moment I knew I was pregnant all three boys were babies to me. I never referred to them as a fetus - only as a baby. Matter of fact my third one was a surprise and we were not ready for another baby. I struggled with depression in the beginning of my pregnancy, but the moment I heard my son's heartbeat my feelings changed. I can't imagine my life without him!!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Amie,
Your post is very intersting to me. I never thought of Jews as Democrat, because I think of Jewish people as very traditional in their values.
It was an eye opener for me. Thanks:)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Regardless what everyone's views are the majority of Americans voted for Bush. Americans also voted more Republican for Senate seats. Maybe Americans are ready to see traditional values come back to our country and I'm all for that.
I also get tired of hearing everyone bash Bush. The Congress also makes decisions for our country along with the Supreme Court and many other people we don't hear about. I for one would love to see both parties work with each other for the next four years instead of against each other.
I didn't vote for Kerry, however, I was very impressed with his speech today. I have more respect for him after today and I hope he and Bush along with the rest of Congress can put aside their differences and work as a team.
My 10 year old and I talked alot about this election and the thing that bothered him the most was all the negative campaigns. He couldn't understand why Bush and Kerry spent alot of time bad talking each other. This is a 10 year olds view point and he is the future of our country.
Instead of dividing as a nation we need to come together as a nation. I hate to see another 911 happen before we become unified again.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I do not want to offend anyone, after all this is what our Country is about, freedom.
I believe in my heart that President George W. Bush is the man for the job. I voted for him, and so did most of the people I spoke with. WE were scared to see Mr. Kerry have a chance at winning the election. Here are a few of my views, they are just that, my views, you don't have to agree.
1. I am old enough to remember Jane Fonda and how she and her groupies treated Viet Nam soldiers who returned from that dreadful war. Called them Baby Killers, MR. KErry came home from Nam and fell right in with her. He even went so far as to make Anti-American remarks. Sorry, but why would I want to vote for a man who has done this terrible thing to his own kind???? One of my best friends is a double amputee, he suffers every day of his life, just trying to walk. Just to walk. He his buddy stepped on a land mine, he died, my freind lots his legs, one day, he is going to be in a wheel chair, but for now, he is determined he is going to stand to walk. I know many double and triple amputees, just talking to them about Jane Fonda and MR. KErry stirs up a fire deep down inside of them. IF you know one, talk to them. See how they feel.
2. HE believes in Abortion, I don't. Partial birth abortion? NO WAY!! THat act is murder in itself....I just will not go any farther on this one.
3. ABC, NBC, and CBS are all liberal media, if I were a person who may have been confused, these people would have sent me straight to the poles to vote for the PRES. These people speak negatively all of the time, they never tell the good stories that are happening in IRAQ. ANd, like Dan Rather, most of them wouldnt know the truth if it slapped them in the face. Sorry Dan, CBS should have canned you a long time ago. MR. Kerry never saw the writing on the wall, the liberal media helped him loose.
4. ANd, yes, there were WMD's in IRAQ. REmember when Saddam would not let the investigators into the country?? Well, that is when they were dis-assembled, and moved across IRAQ and into other countries. The State Dept. has satelite pics of this happening, I remember when it happened and hav e not forgotten about it. I also remember when that mad man gassed his own innocent countrymen so he could see how that gas killed people, then he just left them laying in the streets.
4. Morals, we need to bring them back into our lives right now! THe bible tells us that it is not natural for a man to sleep with a man, and a woman to sleep with a woman. Marriage was made for a Man and a Woman. THis union cannot stand up in the courts as marriage, marriage was meant to be between a man and a woman, and that is just how I believe. I used to think that Gay people had a right to be what they wanted to be. PEople are not born Gay, God does not make people that way, it is a lifestyle choice that they have chosen. (man, I know I am going to catch a lot of heat for that one, but, I am a Christian and that is how I believe. I have to stand up for God.)
5. As far as the economy goes, it just depends who you are listening to on a day to day basis. ANd, it might have a lot to do with what part of the country people are living in.
6. When MR. KErry spoke about speeding this war up and sending more troups?? Where did he think he was going to get MORE TROUPS??? HE would have had to impose a draft, but, he didnt say that when he was out campaigning on the road now did he? HEck no he didnt, that would have sent his popularity plummeting. WHere did he and everyone else think all of these troups were going to come from? My nephew is in the Air Force, and I know a lot of families who have their beloved family members serving. No way would I ever,ever, speak negatively about the PResident, he and our troups need our support, you can't support one without supporting the other. THats just common sense.
7. For those of you who may be jokingly saying they want to go to Canada, well, I agree with Cara, except down here in Texas we have a saying of our own...Don't let the screen door hit you on the butt on your way out. If you don't like it here, maybe you should pack your bags. Don't think its going to hurt my feelings, and why don't you take your friends from Hollywood too who keep threatening they are going to leave. Looks like Ben Affleck won'tneed much help packing his bags, no one will spend their hard earned money to put it out on someone like him. I sure won't.
Ok now. I'm done, said my peice. IF you dont agree you dont have to agree thats fine. BUt, before you start defending the Gay's, pick up a Bible and start reading it. You may be surprised at what you find.
I don't like this type of discussion on the boards, it is suppossed to be a place for all of us, to come and share. But, when peoples feelings are hurt, or, unkind words are spoken, maybe we should re-think before someone feels they have to leave the boards to find solace elsewhere. THere are too many good freinds here, and we do a good job of trying to take care of each other. Lets keep that going, I need it and so do you!! I will continue to Pray for our Country and our President.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thank you for being so strong and standing by your beliefs.
I also know people who are struggling to have a child, wouldnt they all love to have a baby, before it had a chance to be aborted?!
Your son is right about the mud slinging and negativity. I pray for the children of this beautiful country.
I like you Barbara! Keep on being a good mom!!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Women are the superior sex!!!
Bob. An "enlightened" male! 
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You did not offend me!! I also share most of your views, but I also don't think as an american I should be able to make other people live by my view point!!
There is a Seperation between Church & State!! So I don't think that what the bible says should ever come into play when making laws!!! I am not sure how to word this but i am going to try! If God is against the Gay lifestyle and the other things mentioned then let GOD be the one to Judge and punish!! There is enough hate in this world, and i belive that no matter what while you live in AMERICA (as a citizen) you should have the rights and freedoms granted to all other citizens!!
Who am I to judge any body!! I am not perfect by any means!! I also think that two people who have been together for years should be allowed to be treated with respect and rights no matter what their sex!!!
OK I am done!! I had hoped this topic would not come up on the boards!! I love you all and don't want to lose any of you over this!!! I just feel very strongley about this!!! I know you do to!! I respect your views and that is what is great about USA we can dissagree and still be friends!!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
In terms of the whole gay marriage issue...
First, if it weren't natural, it wouldn't exist. There are a lot worst things to be than gay...like sociopathic or criminally insane. If I were to be stranded on a desert island rather be with a gay/lesbian than with the other two types.
Yet, this point of this post is to state what I think about gay marriage. My viewpoint (as a moderate Republican) is that the "contract," so to speak should be that of a "civil union." Somewhere between the traditional heterosexual definition of marriage and the laws of business partnerships.
I don't think a gay couple is the same as a hetero couple in that they cannot make offspring. Argue till the next millenium, but gays cannot PRODUCE babies. I'm sure, though, that they can be WONDERFUL, LOVING parents. And, gays/lesbians have much, much more at stake in the relationship than a generic, run-of-the-mill, business partnership.
That's my thoughts/opinions on the matter. And, one point of note..., while growing up, it turned out that one of my best friends was gay. Didn't know until another mutual friend told me. When I told him I knew, it was stated that it didn't make any difference. However, when he found out I was mentally ill with depression...never saw him again.
It's all relative, I guess.
Bob.
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
That must have taken a lot of courage and time to write. Thank you for sharing all of your thoughts with all of us. For the record, I agree with you on about 98% percent of what you said. The 2% I'm either indifferent to or am not convinced either way (basically I would never go out and march for gay rights, and I do agree with your comment about the deteriorating moral fiber (soluable or insoluable?) of our nation, but it's simply not something I get fired up about. If gay marriage were allowed, I probably wouldn't pack my bags and move to Canada!).
Anyway, thanks for such a cogent and well-stated opinion.
Panda
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Edited by AmandaPanda (11/04/04 05:21 AM)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
God is Faithful!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
In terms of the whole gay marriage issue...
First, if it weren't natural, it wouldn't exist
Well I just had to say IT IS NOT natural!!!! Men have a male part that goes with a female part!!!! That is natural...the other way??? HOW could that be natural????
Also...there are MANY things that aren't natural....but they do exist!!!!
Sorry Bob, just don't see how that's natural!!!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
First let me say, I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!! I think its wonderful that you can all discuss politics without getting mean and ugly towards each other.This election has brought out the worst on both sides.People fighting and arguing on other message boards has gotten so heated! Im so happy to see that we all respect each other on here. You will all slap me for this,but, I didn't vote this year.I just didnt know which commercials or stories to believe about which candidate and im not into politics at all. I just hope and pray that things in this country change for the better soon(not placing blame anywhere here),health care is one of my biggest concerns because right now my hubby and i have no health coverage,and make too much to qualify for the state assisted health care. Anyway,,,big hugs to everyone for being so civil towards each other!! ~~~Tanya
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
THis is what "I" believe. I am a Christian, I believe in God, the Bible, and every word in it. I am not ashamed to say it for persecutions sake. I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone here or anywhere. If you want to listen thats great, if you don't thats great too. Don't be offended, I love this board too, it is the best one I have ever posted on. Everyone here has been so supportive to me in my difficult times, and I thank you all for it. I have so much love in my heart for the people here, you are all so special.
As for the seperation of Church and State, let me just say this, many of the laws being passed are hurting so many innocent people, those who choose to be married in a Heterosexual relationship are some of them. Our lawmakers should be held responsible for making laws look one way on the outside and another way deeper into the writing of it. Vote them out!!! These people are not here to help our States and our Country, many of them are here for reasons outside of the law that many of us will never see or be able to understand. Myself included.
OK. Saying that, once more, I have not written one word here to offend anyone. It is "MY" opinion as a Christian, and let me tell you, there may be many Christians who would dissagree with me and "MY" opinion. And thats OK too!
God Bless this Country and everyone serving in the Military and thier families. Also, our sweet little ones who will grow up and inherit our Country.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
When we talk about natural, it can go one of two ways. We have a 'mother nature' kind of natural where, in my opinion, anything that involves an urge (that doesn't negatively effect anyone else), becomes a 'normality' in our incredible world. Once something, that is harmless to everyone else that is not involved, has enough people with that urge, it becomes 'natural'. This is where homosexuality would stand if you were of the 'mother nature' philosophy.
If you believe in God, and by God I mean a monotheistic, omnipotent power that rules over us (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) then you will base your moral judgements on the laws of your religion. Religion is extremley judgemental (because it all comes to down to judgement 'heaven and hell' at the end of the day...reward and punishment etc) - its all about a prescribed way to live. So through religious beliefs, what we believe is natural is dictated through the moral code handed down. Homosexuality is hence considered extremley wrong and sinful.
This is where it gets difficult.
Just for the record I believe in God, but not in a religious way, in a spiritual 'this is MY God' way...
Ultimately, the beauty in a democratic country is that people are FREE to make decisions about their own lives. Laws are based on many things, but what we consider to be massively antisocial behaivours are things that impose on other peoples property and space - murder, rape, robbery etc.
When acts do not involve anything or anyone apart from two consenting (or three or four!!!) adults, if we are to continue to live in a free place where everyone can practise what they wish, we cannot dictate to people, or impose upon them, beliefs and morals that they do not feel in their heart and soul.
It is important to realise, that to a homosexual person, the thought of having sex with somebody of the opposite sex is as repulsive as it is to a heterosexual to have sex with someone of the same sex. To them, it feels natural and beautiful. What would we have...a person alone and sad or a person with love in their ONLY life?
Just as wish for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc to practise in peace and harmony, we want people whose life philosophies and practise are different to be able to feel as free. A harmonious society is that in which people feel they can be comfortable in their own skin, feel free to be true to themselves and have high self esteem.
Why does it effect anyone if gays are given the right to marry? It promotes the principle of monogamy and stability, which is a lot more conservative in many ways, then promiscuous behaivour by many heterosexuals!
Ultimately, what goes on between people, and the commitments they choose to make to eachother, is private. That is the beauty of the philosphy of this country. We cannot dictate something as personal as a belief in a higher power, mother nature, or God , to other human beings.
My opinion!! :-)
--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Oh Sweets I didn't mean you were judging. Just as a country in general!! You did not offend me at all!! I also am a Christian and I also belive that the gay lifestyle is not nautural but they should have the same rights that's all!! It is just MY view!!! I am just so tired of seeing people Judged and Hated! ( not meaning you just in general) It makes me sad! Not just the gay's but people of other nationalty, relgion's and race!! I just wish there was a way in this world to live without all this hate!! Our time on this earth is so short and I hate to see it wasted on war and discremtnation S/P?!!
I want a more peacefull loving futer for my children!!!
I hope I did not offend anybody!!! These are my views and I also stand by them!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
4. Morals, we need to bring them back into our lives right now! THe bible tells us that it is not natural for a man to sleep with a man, and a woman to sleep with a woman. Marriage was made for a Man and a Woman. THis union cannot stand up in the courts as marriage, marriage was meant to be between a man and a woman, and that is just how I believe. I used to think that Gay people had a right to be what they wanted to be. PEople are not born Gay, God does not make people that way, it is a lifestyle choice that they have chosen. (man, I know I am going to catch a lot of heat for that one, but, I am a Christian and that is how I believe. I have to stand up for God.)
This is my biggest problem, right here... there are TOO MANY religions for holier than thouh Christians to force THEIR veiws on EVERYONE in our country! Who are you, or W, or ANYONE to tell me or the rest of this country of the rest of the WORLD, what is right, what is just, what is moral?? That right there is what *separation of church and state* is all about...
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I love a strong minded Woman !!! What a boring place this would be if we were all the same ! Bless you !
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hey - She definately did NOT say she was pushing her beliefs on you!! That is not fair. She was just stating how she feels, not yelling or forcing you to believe them.
Believe it or not - Christains only want to tell you about God because they care about you and want you to feel in your heart what we do. My faith gets me through everything, and if more people had that sense of security, we might not be so stressed out.
One Nation Under God - that should not be separated in my opinion.
Please don't be upset, I am not pushing beliefs on you, but I'm not going to keep quiet about my faith because I want to help people.
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I just was trying to say that its not fair to bring someones religion into law, or politics, because we don't all believe the same thing... that's the heart of so many wars, the religions... it doesn't have to be that way, if people just believed what they believed and let others believe what they believed, things would be better... I whole heartedly support war on terror, but I don't support us going in and interfering when it is a matter of other religions and their fight... its not our place... sorry if I aimed that at her, I didn't mean to, really.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have to agree with you, Sunshyne. I'm not a Christian either, and I think there should be more of separation of church and state due to that fact, not everyone is Christian, and not even all Christians believe the same things. I think everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but I don't think they should be forced on other people through laws/politics.
--------------------
Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Melitami....
It just seems backasswards, supposed to be free, free to do what we feel is right, putting *Christianity* (I say this because I am NOT talking about religion) back into things is moving backwards.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi. You certainly did not offend me. I am a lifetime Democrat. For the first time in my life I voted Republican (only for President). Not only did I vote for Pres. Bush because of his stand on moral issues but also because I felt that he was the best candidate to help keep our country safe and free from terrorism. I believe that the safety of our country is important. Kerry frightened me. He seems to think that everything should be "peaches and cream" with all countries around the world. I am sure all of us live that dream but reality is what it is all about. We (the U.S.) have financed so many countries and our own country is hurting (homelessness, poverty, value systems being fragmented, crime, etc.). To tell you the truth, the war in Iraq should not have been the topic of this election. The issues should have been about making a better life for the lower middle income of this country. However, neither Bush or Kerry mentioned this. Their statements were all about "middle class". I grew up poor and with the grace of God, I am upper middle class. But every day I think of my struggles and try to reach out to those who struggle daily to survive in this country. Thanks for listening.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree with ya sister!! Freedom in this country should be for everyone not just those who fit a certain image!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I was very disappointed with how the election turned out. I was hoping Kerry would win. I must say that I am very scared for everyone right now because of the results of this election.
Even though I am in Canada....I feel it will still have an impact on my country. I think most Canadians are disappointed with the way this all turned out....
There have already been a bunch of reports in the papers and on the news of Americans trying to cross the border to escape their own country.....
I am praying for everyone.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
i agree....i feel the seperation of church and state is a really important issue....one that bush doesn't quite comprehend.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
well here in Canada gay marriages are legal anyway
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Daliatree, I have to agree with you!! When 2 consenting adults want to share the rest of their lives together, who are we to stop them? They (gays) should be allowed to have the same benefits hetrosexuals do. They shouldn't be denied health insurance and tax breaks like other couples get. In MY opinion, if someone is truley gay, they were made that way. I believe in nature over nurture. Sure, some people are bi-curious and thats a bit different, but to be truley gay isn't a choice. We are talking about consenting adults here, where is the freedom in telling us who we can and can't be married to? If the goverment continues to inflict its views on our personal lives, where will it stop?? Will they outlaw interracial marriages next?
--------------------
Taking it one day at a time.....
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
One Nation Under God - that should not be separated in my opinion.
Please don't be upset, I am not pushing beliefs on you, but I'm not going to keep quiet about my faith because I want to help people. Yes one nation under GOD but not everyone's God is the same! Plus there is also a saying LAND OF THE FREE!!! If someone told you you couldn't marry the person you loved and raise a famliy with that person because it goes against their belifes How Free Would You Feel???? Once again this is just my thoughts!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
The saying is - GOD BLESS AMERICA, LAND OF THE FREE.
I agree with you that not everyone's God is the same - I am very open-minded to other religions, believe me!
No one would tell me I can't marry the person I love, because I married under the rules of the marriage law.
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have to say I agree with Heather. Having suffered 2 miscarriages and infertility problems I still believe in the right to choose. I believe Gays should be able to marry, hell, our divorce rate is 50%, how could they do any worse?? We all have different views and opinions and I believe we should all be allowed to live and let live. I agree, the morals of this country need improving but I don't feel thats an excuse to push certain religious beliefs on people. You CAN be a good and moral person without having religion be the center of your life. I have no problem with religious people and actually admire them for thier beliefs but they have to respect the fact that there can be more than one belief in this world! I have made some really good friendships on this board and turn to it often for support. We ARE a great bunch of people and our different views help make it that way!! We can all express our views in a friendly away, without attacking anyone. When its all said and done, we have to agree to disagree and still respect and love eachother!!
--------------------
Taking it one day at a time.....
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Michele
#118934 - 11/04/04 10:18 AM
|
|
|
|
Sunshyne
Reged: 10/26/04
Posts: 115
Loc: San Antonio
|
|
|
Yup... Agree to disagree... Right now, all we can do is try and come back together as a nation and fix what's been broken...
Kumbya!!(sp)
Sunshyne
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Re: Michele
#119009 - 11/04/04 12:05 PM
|
|
|
|
|
jules
Reged: 06/17/03
Posts: 1140
Loc: Michigan
|
|
|
My mom and step dad were going door to door for the dems the day of the election. One Bushie they talked to said that the voted for him - get this - because she heard that he awoke every morning and prayed. That was the only basis that she used to vote for him.
Makes me so angry. And I'm a Christian. But I don't go to church. I don't believe that the Bible was written by God.
Sorry, but religion stirs me up!
If you haven't, check out the Sarah McLaughlin cover "Dear God". The lyrics are fabulous!!
--------------------
~jules
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
As a straight male, who believes in God, and a sort of "ying/yang" philosophy towards nature/nurture and Creationism/Evolution concepts...perhaps this just boils down to tolerance.
If I bought a house, and a gay/lesbian couple moved in next door. They would get the same treatment as anybody else. If they were jerks, I wouldn't like them. If they were good, friendly neighbors, they would be welcome.
The points I'm making is that we are unique opinions on these issues, yes. But, one must know there boundaries as to how far they can enforce these opinions (i.e. via the vote). I'm pro-life in theory, but pro-choiche in practice. It's not my body. Who am I to tell a woman she has to have her unwanted pregnancy. And, just as it is with the gay marriage issue, who am I to say a loving couple, regardless of the composition the two genders...can't be respected by society and live a long, loving, and recognized life together.
Tolerance seems to be the key. And, in the country, we surely have the right to the freedom of speech; but not necessarily the right to be "heard." I'll close by saying that yes gays deserve to be respected just like everybody else. But, keep it as much in your private life as possible. Cause it's mostly none of my business (and being a depressive) I really don't care about the whole romantic/"right to express one's libido"/soulmate/parnership thing. After a while it gets to be such a drag to listen to...
--------------------
Life is transitory, love is not!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Ok now. I'm done, said my peice. IF you dont agree you dont have to agree thats fine. BUt, before you start defending the Gay's, pick up a Bible and start reading it. You may be surprised at what you find.
This sort of statement drives me crazy. What makes you think that just because I believe gay people should have the right to marry I haven't read the bible? I understand completely and fully every verse you would make reference to that you believe is against homosexuality. I also have talked to religious scholars who have read the bible in the ORIGINAL GREEK who disagree with the translations. I further am quite educated in the ways that the bible's wording has changed over time throughout it's history and the various translations that exist.
The thing is, you believe that the bible can be interpreted literally to make laws for human beings. You believe that there is one interpretation of the words and that that interpretation has accurately been captured by the translators and you have access to it. I in no way want to deny you that belief.
However, I don't agree with it. And no amount of me reading and rereading those passages is going to change my mind on the issue.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me or anyone else ignorant.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Enough is enough!! things are staring to get ugly and i don't want to see people mad and hurt by all of this!! These boards are to important to have them fall apart because of all this!!! LET IT GO!!! PLEASE!!! We all need to just agree to disagree!!! No one is going to change anyone elses mind on here so lets just stop now!!!
--------------------
Heather7476
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I agree....this post is getting us no where, now! We all have our beliefs....we were all raised differently...and live in different places. We need to just know that no one is going to ever agree completley with each others views. Some of my view are very differnet than my husbands....I just have to bite my toung some times and let the rest roll of my shoulder!!!
Lets try and end this post!!! It's better for our IBS!!!
--------------------
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Yeah, end this garbage. No one will change my mind, and I won't change anyone else's. No need for anyone to be rude. I'm done with this post!! :P
Love ya'll!
--------------------
~Cara~
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Posts
