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Well, I'm going wade into this discussion. I will say I'm very pleased that it's been a civil discussion, and while everybody isn't agreeing with each other, someone has already mentioned, that's the great thing about a democracy as you can actually state your political views.
And for anybody that wants to come live in Canada, you're more than welcome! 
Someone wondered what the outcome would be if people from other countries could have voted. They actually did a world wide poll, and except for Russia, Thailand and one or two more countries, Kerry would have won by a landside. Should this sway American's opinions? Yes and no. Obviously Americans want to look out for their own interests first. Every government is responsible to its citizens first and foremost. But still, the opinions of your allies should be taken into consideration.
If your friends are all telling you that doing something is a bad idea. Shouldn't you at least stop to examine the idea first before you say "F*#$ You" I'll do it myself?
I find it amazing that in a mere 4 years, George W was able to change the world's deepest sympathy (post 9/11) into international dislike.
I also find it strange that most Americans state that they feel safer with Georgie. I understand how scary it would be to have a terrorist attack on your own soil. I fly a lot and when I visited NYC in 1998, I stayed in the WTC Marriott hotel. However, I'll tell you now. Most of these added security measures at airports don't really do much. If there was a determined terrorist he/she could still cause lots of problems. Armed guards at the doors may make you feel safer, but they really don't do anything. I imagine a lot of these new measures don't really make the average American safer from an attack, yet they do infringe upon your basic rights and freedoms. I highly recommend reading 1984 and a Brave New World.
If Kerry were elected would he suddenly make the world a better place? Not likely. However, this US Vs the rest of the world attitude that Bush is demonstrating will cause more and more people to dislike the US. And if you have more and more people dislike you, you are NOT safer. I think you have to look at the cause of the problem.
I have a number of American friends. I have travelled extensively through out the states and really enjoy it. Overall I find Americans very friendly and I am happy that we have the USA as a neighbour.
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Dear J,
Just had to respond to this one...
First, glad that you mentioned the way you feel about us Americans vs. the way you feel about our current administration - most do seem to make that distinction. However I must also note that on that list of countries that would prefer that John Kerry won the presidency were leaders such as Kim Jong Il, whom Kerry said he would reward with fuel reactors for more empty promises from a regime that could easily be likened to that of Nazi Germany. Our allies in the war on terror number nearly as many today as they did during the Gulf war (Desert Storm). Also, when I talk about fealing safer with Bush as President, I'm not talking about a few extra gaurds in my airport - I'm talking about money committed to the department of defense and to the department of Justice so they can do their jobs to prevent the terrorists from getting to us in the first place - it means a whole lot to me that we have not faced a second major attack on US soil since September 11 - and believe me - it is certain that the terrorists have tried - I have freinds and a husband who works in intellegence and there is no doubt. Not to be accusatory here, because like you, I'll distinguish between your gov. and your population - I think Canadians are great allies to the US - but your border does leak like civ and were we to get more terrorists in this country they'd probably walk over from Montreal! I have read 1984 and Brave New World - I've also lived in China, so don't even try the metaphor - I knew it too well once. I don't think Bush is presenting an attitude of US vs. the rest of the world - it's the US vs. the terrorists - we'll do anything we need to stop them and so far what he's done has worked. That was enough to keep my vote.
I'll step off my Washington soap box now - just had to clarify some things...
Min
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Quote:
Boy, am I tired but was happy with today's results. I need a hell of a lot of sleep though. I was up until about 3am or so.
I don't know what was up with my state (NY). I voted for President Bush. I did not agree with everything he has to say but I think he can protect us better. I have a lot of faith that he can help heal the rifts in this country. I am sorry but I so don't agree with that comment!! In my view he is the one who started a great deal of the rifts!! But that is just me!! He is going to have to try his best and I think he will do so. Kerry is a good man but I just didn't think he had what it took be Commander in Chief.
And yes, it is nice to see people express their views civilly on these boards.
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Heather7476
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I find it absolutely fascinating that people in other countries are suggesting that they know what is best for the American people. I did vote for Kerry because I disagree with Bush's decision to invade Iraq.
It seems to me that the term "leader of the free world" really has some substance to it after all. Pretty sad.
There are many people starving in the world, genocides being committed, brutal oppression of women, etc. I think the international community should be more actively involved in these issues rather than worrying which rich white guy is in the White House.
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Quote:
I find it absolutely fascinating that people in other countries are suggesting that they know what is best for the American people.
IRONIC...the US seems to think IT knows what is best for the rest of the world...Afghanistan, Iraq.... 
Everyone has the right to vote for who they want but also to have an opinion on things that may or may not directly affect them.
Which rich white guy is in the White House is important to the rest of the world as we will have our leaders sucking up to them and their policies for oil and trade links.
Ireland didn't support the war in Iraq, but our Leader's popularity plummeted when he welcomed Bush on a state visit in June, Tony Blair the UK Prime Minister sold out to Bush and is under serious pressure to maintain popularity in the US, even though he was elected to a landslide.
I guess you are right though, at the end of the day the policies don't really change that much from President to president and the same industry leaders are in charge as always were.
OK, off my soapbox now...sorry for lowering the tone 
Sinead
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S.
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Despite all of your views, America has spoken. And Bush got more votes than any President ever elected to the office. I think he deserves more respect than some people are giving him. I respect Kerry, and I would not have been growling and upset if he had won. I would not go tell people I'm running off to Canada. What kind of a message does it send out to other countries when people bad mouth the President? It was a majority vote, and he won. Now we just have to learn how to respect him, no matter what our opinions are. Could you run the country through these tragic years?
So for all of you saying you're going to run off to Canada, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
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~Cara~
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~ Rachel (IBS-C)
If life hands you lemons, make lemonade!!
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Cara- I agree
#118705 - 11/03/04 04:09 PM
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cailin
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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I agree Cara, the citizens of a country have a right to choose their leader democratically, and should accept the result. At least this time the electoral votes and popular vote went the same way We all have the freedom to choose and the right to vote and we are lucky to have this.
I was just defending outsiders'(like me) having an interest in what happens over there in my post.
This IBSer needs to go to bed it's after midnight here!
Talk to you all tomorrow!
Sinead
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S.
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The way I look at it, America is in a lose-lose proposition. When the world asks us to solve a problem, we do it and still get our reputation sullied. When we don't do anything we get asked "Well why didn't America do something?"
We'll never be universally liked. I do agree President Bush has to do a better job of forging alliances in his second term. I strongly feel he has learned from his mistakes and will work with other countries to forge alliances to deal with the simmering problems of N. Korea and Iran. I also firmly believe he will not allow other countries to dictate our own security. This is why I voted for him.
As far as my basic freedoms and rights go, I have not ad any infringed upon. I work in the securities industry and think teh Patriot Act is a wonderful tool to capture terrorists. This Act has done an excellent job of stopping terrorist funding. If that prevents another 9/11 then I am all for it.
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