No progress at all
#365865 - 08/22/11 03:17 PM
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IBS-C started about 5 years ago. A couple of years ago I followed the EFI diet and used acacia for six months religiously two separate times...no improvement. I am just finishing up with the hypno tapes for the second time and have had no improvement there as well. I believe it was posted somewhere that if a person is harboring any other issues (which I am not) the hypno may not work, otherwise, from what I have read, there should be significant results...needless to say, I am disappointed. The only issues I have are anxiety and depression which are 100% related to IBS. I have kept food journal after food journal, tried western medicine, eastern medicine, and everything in between. Sometimes I just feel our digestion is going to do what it's going to do....some good days, some bad. Anyone else in this quandary....where EFI nor tapes have helped???
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Sorry to hear the EFI diet and hyno are not helping much. About 20-30% of individuals don't get much help from hypnosis.
Have you tried the FODMAP diet which was developed and clinically tested for managing functional GI disorders such as IBS? You can read about it in the first two links in my signature. I use it in combination with the EFI diet and I have fairly good success. Ask if you have any questions. 
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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I agree it is difficult! There certainly is no magic cure! I, too have tried many different kinds of treatment, but, have found it all boils down to the individual, thus "treatment" is also somewhat individual. That being said, these diets offer alot of very good guidelines for us to follow  I am in the Milwaukee area...a rainy day here in Wisconsin!!
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IBS-D. Eating gluten and dairy free.
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Don't give up on the hypno. It took me three rounds and I am very well. Actually, to get more acurate info on hypnosis go to the hypnosis board and post your question to Marilyn. She is the "expert" on anything hypnosis. Because of her, I continued on and I am glad I did. I was ready to quite by the first go-round.
She may not see this post here, so if you go to the hypnosis board, she will see it. I will put her name at the top in the subject line here, along with yours, so maybe she will catch your post here. This board is more for diet, not hypnosis.
It really does take more time for some, so don't get disappointed. EFI may not be for you, nor analyzing the crap out of your diet, but don't give up on other options.
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Thank you Syl for the Foodmap information. and yes, I do have a question. I have spent hundred and hundred of hours of research on IBS and seen so many different people searching for answers. I did go to a nutritionalist a few years ago that I swear I knew more than she did. However, I recently found a different nutritionalist who works with people with bowel disorders and she does testing (I think mainly food allergies). She does not do fructose malabsorption testing. She has only been doing this for a couple of years, so not tons of experience. From reading the many previous posts I can see how much knowledge you have regarding IBS and in your opinion, how do you feel about nutritionalists and their success in treating IBS? Are there any specific tests I should request, or am I just going to be getting the information I already am aware of and virtually throwing another several hundred dollars down the drain??? Any insight would be helpful. Thank-you.
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Hello Reindeer -
There still is hope - just from reading your posts here I am pretty sure I know why the hypno may not be working thus far. I will answer more fully on the hypno forum, but also, please do feel free to call 877-898-2539 for private support or go to the contact page on the website listed in the program booklet last page.
While we can support on these boards in general, sometimes this can take you away from encouragement - and there still is hope in this area to be sure.
Please go to the hypno forum for further support.
And - thanks Gerikat - you are a gem and a good encourager!!! ((HUGS)) to ya!
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My Journey and Success with the IBS Audio Program Hypnotherapy Program: www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=hypnotherapy&Number=224850
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I am going to chime in here.
Everybody on the board knows me and I have made a big deal about how I found some, but nowhere close to the relief I needed from EFI.
However, Syl has helped me a lot.
Syl told me about FODMAPS. I then saw an RD about FODMAPS, and followed her diet, not much better.
I went back to Syl, and was very angry. I took Syl up and changed my diet to a very low fiber, EFI, FODMAP diet.
During this span, I have had my IBS in much better shape.
Am I cured? No. Does IBS still inhibit me?
Yes.
However, it is better, way more than it was 6-12 months ago.
In fact, we have agreed that diet wise, there is nothing more I can do...the next and final step is hypnosis.
However, per Marilyn, it will have to be done in person as tapes would likely, at least to start, be ineffective.
My point? I am an extremely difficult IBS person.
I am IBS A with a lot of bloating.
Doing what Syl told me to do diet wise has been more helpful than why any RD ever could say, because they do not have the research and science background nor first hand problems with IBS.
It's not close to a cure, but it got me to the next stage.
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A good nutritionists can surely help plan balanced and nutritious meals but they don't have any more insight into managing IBS that other health professionals. If you can find a nutritionist that knows about the FODMAP approach to managing functional GI disorders then they might be able to guide you. However, most of the publicly available information is fairly good. For example, the IFFGD web site has a nice concise write-up in its latest newsletter that may be helpful.
Nutritionists usually don't do fructose malabsorption tests although they might be able to request one from a testing facility. You might ask your GP or GI doc for the test. Of course, eliminating foods with excess fructose for a couple of weeks will give you a fairly good indication if it is a problem for you.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Thanks Syl for your insight. Nope, she doesn't work with the Foodmaps diet and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be able to give me any more information than I've already acquired over the years. My problem is if I don't eat tons of IF I can't seem to get a good, complete BM. I did skim over the Foodmap diet and when I saw no apples or prunes, kind of scared me as I eat an apple and prunes every day. Even sometimes when I have two really good BMs and I would feel completely empty, a few hours later I start to cramp as if I need another BM, yet can't get anything to move. It's like the peristalsis is either working when there is nothing left to push out or it's not strong enough to get it all out if I haven't eaten enough IF. So it's not like I'm truly constipated, yet I still feel that way a great deal of the time. I don't know if this makes any sense, but the way my body works doesn't make any sense??? I think back to the days when I could just get up, eat breakfast, poop, and be on my way for the day. My body went totally out of whack when I went into menopause.
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Yes - hormonal changes can definitely play havoc with IBS symptoms.
For years I thought I was IBS-C when in fact when I looked a the definition I found I am IBS-D. None of the GI doctors that I have seen over the past 40+ years ever asked how many BMs I had per day/weeek. IBS-C is generally defined as 3 or less BM per week while IBS-D is generally defined as 3 or more BM per day. The feeling of incomplete evacuation is common symptoms of all IBS subtypes not just IBS-C. Sometimes it is this sensation that leads people to believe they are IBS-C when in fact they are IBS-D. Using these descriptions do you believe you are IBS-C?
The excess fructose in apples ( and some other fruits) and the sorbitol in prunes can exacerbate either C or D. You might find some success with this approach as it has been clinically shown to be effective for all IBS subtypes.
You might reconsider eating a lot of IF. It is definitely known that diets high in IF can exacerbate IBS symptoms.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Like Syl I too used to think that I was IBS-C due to the symptoms you described which were similar to mine but in terms of number of BMs per day I too usually qualify as IBS-D. Most importantly, for me it's too much fat that's causing me those symptoms. So take care of your fat intake. For me that is the biggest challenge, I have to be extra careful.
In terms of fructose malabsorption, I've noticed that whereas I am not as sensitive to fructose as to lactose, even a tiny amount of fructose causes me symptoms and immediately. Somewhere I read (may not be a wholly good source), lactose intolerance and fructose malabsorption cause instantenous D. That's what I have from even tiny amounts of lactose. Fructose, small amounts I just have immediate bloating, large amounts same as lactose instant D. Now this again used to confuse me back in the day when I knew nothing about either fat or IF or FODMAPs. So I quite often used both lactose (milk and yoghurt) and fructose (apples) as a laxative cos I was longing for relief. (Even today I'd rather have D (which I have from a good fat but too high IF intake diet) than the symptoms I get from too much fat (needing to go but not being able to, elimination urge but no result and spasms and pain)).
As for IF, it's not a good idea to eat IF for IF's sake in my opinion, but there are so many incredibly healthy foods that have excess IF in them that I recommend eating those with a SF supplement.
As for other FODMAPs, fructans for me cause large amounts of bloating, I am now not eating wheat or onions or garlic. I do well with polyols, and I do eat broccoli and beans, Beano is good for making the gas odour-free, but has not helped me with distention. Still, it's not something I couldn't live with, as I said I personally (and may be the case with you too) have different symptoms from different foods and some (like fat) are vicious, whereas others (like bloating) are not tragic and benefits are outweighed by the healthy-ness of such foods as broccoli and beans and apricots so I'd rather have a certain amount of bloating than not eat those foods. But it all comes down to what you feel comfortable with! Best of luck!
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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Thank you for your responses. Yes, if we are counting number of BMs per day, I would be considered D, however, it's hard for me to wrap my head around being D as when I am in a bad time as I am currently, the BMs are smaller and I can still feel more poop inside me but just won't come out. and my stool is not watery. The strange thing with me is I never bloat nor do I have a lot of gas. I just feel backed up. I always eat very, very healthy, however, do know that if I eat broccoli or steamed cabbage I may end up in big trouble. I was doing really good for a while and having large well-formed BMs when I took a dose of Citrucel in afernoon and a dose of psyllim husk in the PM. Not sure what happened, but something tripped me up and I changed that up for a while. I don't use laxatives except an occasional dose of MOM, which does a pretty good job of cleaning me out. I have been absolutely miserable the last week. Didn't sleep much due to feeling so backed up so at 3:30AM made some lemon water..sipped for about an hour, then a couple T. of blackstrap molasses and shortly thereafter had a decent BM. Had breakfast about 7:30 then another BM, but I new I still felt so full of it I could not function. I ended up taking an enema (not the fleet, the old fashioned way with the bag) 'cuz I just couldn't stand it any more.....I just wanted to get myself cleansed. Sorry to go on and on, but I am just exhausted from dealing with this. I get so sick I get headaches and dry heaves. The enema doesn't make me feel great, but at least I can function. I am going to post my diet and if you could look it over with any suggestions???
Also, on a good day this is how my body works: bowels wake me up around 5:00 AM. They actually will not move until I drink some hot tea or lemon water... within an hour, a good BM. I then dose off until around 7:30 AM and bowels start working again so I have breakfast and then another BM maybe within 1/2 hour.
So here is my usual diet:
Breakfast:
Oatmeal with blueberries and almond milk and about 1/3 cup of Coffee (I know that is a no-no, but went for months without coffee and no difference)
Mid-morning - apple
Lunch
1. Hummus on Ezekiel bread with fresh zucchini slices and a tablespoon sauerkraut (the sauerkraut I eat is made by someone who does not process it, so I get all the digestive enzymes from it) I am all right with a little sauerkraut, but not cooked cabbage.
2. home-made veggie soup
mid-afternoon
grapes or pineapple and carrots
dinner
1. some sort of protein and veggies, small potato or pasta
2. veggie burritos using whole wheat tortillas
3. romaine lettuce or spinach mixed with some sort of bean, peas, carrots, and whatever veggies I have in house
I rarely eat red meat, occasionally have a small amount of Stoneyfield plain yogurt, occasionally have a glass of wine, occasional piece of Edam or Gouda cheese. The only thing I really snack on are pretzels and sometimes I will dip them in refried beans for the protein.
So that is my basic diet and I eat almost the same thing every day. Once again, sorry for going on and on, but I'm just not sure where to turn any more. I plan on doing another round of hypno in six weeks, and am hoping for better results. This last week I have been almost totally debilitated. I try to get in at least a short walk or bike ride and do a few things around the house, in an attempt to at least try to keep things moving. I am not one of these people who can go for even two days without pooping. I get unbelievably sick and experience pain all over in my body. I also get very scared when I'm in one of these bad episodes, especially since I know the medical community is absolutely at a loss at to what to do with a person like me.
Thanks for taking the time to read and I welcome any help at all.
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Re: Syl-Susie
#365913 - 08/25/11 10:02 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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It sure does sound like your IBS is out of control.  The number of BM is a good indicator of your IBS subtype. Sounds like you are more IBS-D than IBS-C.
It is quite possible that the high insoluble fiber content in such things as whole wheat tortillas, sauerkraut, pineapple, lettuce, spinach and apples (if you leave the skin on) are exacerbating your IBS symptoms. Insoluble fiber, particularly insoluble fiber in the form on bran found in things like whole wheat tortillas is well known from clinical trials to make IBS symptoms worse.
If I lived on your diet I would be in constant discomfort and pain. 
It is important to remember that the IBS symptoms might not flare-up from a trigger food until 24-48 hours after you have eaten them. And the small and frequent number of BMs is indicative of too much GI stimulating foods. Have you ever tried Heather's break the cycle diet for 3-7 days? If yes, did you notice if you symptoms decreased? I see you eat dairy products. Have you had a lactose intolerance test?
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Re: Syl
#365914 - 08/25/11 12:15 PM
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Thanks you again Syl. Yes, things are very out of control....more so than ever before. I did do the break the cycle diet a few years ago and to be honest, don't remember, I just thought I was truly constipated then. I am however, going to make another attempt. My question is since I have been taking Citrucel consistently every day, should I keep the dosage the same, or maybe up it a little. What about a little psyllim husk or is that a no-no?? When I look at this diet it freaks me out due to the fact there are no fruit or veggies for a few days and I am scared to death of C. All the white bread, pasta rice...Yikes!!! Should I continue to take magnesium supplements to keep things soft or possibly a couple of stool softeners?
No, I never have had a lactose intolerance test....would a physician be able to administer this as well as a fructose malabsorption??
I just don't get it.....why is it I had gone weeks at a time eating like this and having great BMs, yes, there was always some abdominal discomfort, but at least my BMs were emptying me out....then it changed basically overnite?
I am truly appreciative for taking the time in helping me figure this out.
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Re: Syl
#365916 - 08/25/11 02:06 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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It cannot hurt to stick with the Citrucel. Not sure psyllium husk is a good idea. It is 1/3 insoluble fiber and 2/3 soluble fiber. Citrucel on the other hand is 100% soluble fiber. How much Citrucel are you taking?
Yes - a physician can order both the lactose intolerance and fructose malabsorption tests. Both are non-invasive breath tests.
A stool softener at night should be fine. You may find when things are more under control you don't need them.
The purpose of the diet is to reduce GI stimulation from foods that can cause bowel muscle spasms and changes in fluid content in the GI tract resulting in more natural bowel motility, BM frequency and less C or D. The foods on the diet are very low in insoluble fiber which is well known to be a powerful GI stimulant.
The neat thing about foods like rice, non-whole grain wheat bread and pasta is that they are low insoluble fiber and higher in soluble fiber both of which are indigestible. Insoluble fiber swells with water putting pressure on the GI wall stimulating it. The swollen insoluble fiber also increases stool mass. Soluble fiber on the other hand forms a gel and does not put pressure on the GI wall.
You might find that is you shift your focus from thinking about stool consistency and amount to thinking about BM frequency without considering being C or D you might have a clear view of the result you are looking for. A faster or slower than normal GI tract causes D and C, respectively. A normal person has 1-2 BMs per day or at least 1 BM every other day. So that could be your target.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Re: Syl
#365919 - 08/25/11 02:48 PM
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I take either 2 scoops of Citrucel or 1 scoop of Citrucel and 1 T of psyllium. I will continue to take the 2 scoops of Citrucel and zero psyllium for a few days. I started the "break the cycle" today so we'll see how it goes for the next few days.
I also have a call in to the doctor's office for the breath tests.....just hope she doesn't want me coming in to her office first. Don't really want to sit and try to explain all this to her.....just want the results. She loves, loves, loves to prescribe pills for everything and that is not where I want to go.
Thanks again Syl.
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Re: Syl
#365920 - 08/25/11 03:34 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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Print out a copy of the second article in my signature soo that you can give it to her if she asks questions.
Tell us how it goes.
Good luck
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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can only echo what Syl said, with adding that you may too be just as sensitive to fat as me then almond milk, hummus, cheese... check just how much fat there is in there. blueberries are v low in kcal and oatmeal itself has fat, and all nuts are extremely high in fat. 1g of fat contains 9kcal, whereas carbs and protein each have 4kcal per gram, annoyingly enough
lactose intolerance is something that you can get tested on everywhere, so I'd do that and if it's positive then go off yoghurt and cheese.
If I were you I would not ever eat wholewheat. Unless you have weight problems I don't see the point of whole grains, your body cannot extract the goodness from them and their only purpose is to make you fuller longer.
Beans I'd definitely keep but most beans again, are high in IF, so balance it out with a SFS perhaps?
v helpful:
http://huhs.harvard.edu/assets/File/OurServices/Service_Nutrition_Fiber.pdf
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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I only ever get this from too much fat. And its effects linger for days and for me even the tiniest deviation is instantly problematic (by instantly I mean a couple of hours/1day max (not instant like lactose intolerance)). You may be different, but I used to blame IF for the symptoms I got from fat...
(not that I'd ever encourage you to eat a lot of IF. eat healthy foods... beans and blueberries and broccoli are all so extremely healthy and full of antioxidants etc. but healthy foods are unfortunately high in IF so use a SFS in the same meal. they are a godsend, saved my life anyhow. I use Benefiber, in Britain there is nothing added, it's pure soluble fibre, easily dissolves, tasteless. Just great.)
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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You sound so much like me in so many respects. Anyway I too used to be physically sick when I had no BM for an entire day. So you'd rather strain and then have more pain and spasms and haemorrhoids cos you fear that you're gonna be even more clogged up if you do not have a BM every day. Now I never ever strain and know and can tell you from experience that nature will eventually take its course and nothing will happen if you go without a BM for two days. you are much better off not straining and trying to calm yourself down over this and accepting this. I found that for me this mindset was causing me all those physical symptoms you described.
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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http://www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=diet&Number=365712&page=5&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=
may be helpful for you too!
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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Some of us take longer than others to respond to the Acacia and EFI. Have you tried the Fennel tea or Tummy Tamers; are you drinking teas to soothe your tummy?
I was stable for 7 years and had a recent flair up, but I am much better now.
Don't give up. Keep taking the fiber and increase it gradually, like every 4-5 days.
Heather's diet works, it just might take you a little longer too respond.
Hang in there! 
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God never promised life would be easy, but he did promise to provide a way out!
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