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I'd be v surprised regarding my own lactose intolerance. Looking back I had exactly the same symptoms as before IBS.
The fructose however...
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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Well, I am not glad  I hate to have this diet.
I do believe hypno can work.
I am doing it for a few months now, with a professional hypnotherapist, besides the diet. Unfortunately there hasn't been any progression in my diet. Perhaps it's not working because I don't have very much symptoms while on the diet. It's harder to imagine the symptoms if you don't have them much.
As I said, I cannot let go of the diet since it works. Also, I want to add food, because it's too restricting. So that's why I returned to the forum. It's not possible to let the diet go, otherwise my symptoms make me sick and in pain every single day.
My hypnotherapist thought I'm making progression, but I don't really see it.. During the time, I found out more about my diet that works, so I guess that's what she is seeing. If you feel better physically, it also works through to your psychical health.
But I continue doing hypno, although my motivation is reducing, because I don't see results from it.
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PI-IBS-C/A nausea & very bad gastric pain
meds: lansoprazol+macrogol
started EFI +FODMAPs 1/2011. 'Relapse' for 8 months. Now partly back on track again with the diet..
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I am in the same boat. I am on day69 in the hypno, but I too cannot just let go of my diet (which I don't actually hate though and once I'm cured I'll only introduce more fat/have IF without taking a SFS so I won't really start eating red meat/drink caffeine or alcohol or have loads of eggs).
Read another post somewhere by Syl, who I seem to recall said that it's recommended that hypnosis is done alongside other methods ie with dieting (I hope). Kem's daughter too did it this way and she started easing the restrictions gradually. Imo if we were to abandon diet, (cos dieting reinforces the negative thought patterns and means that we are apparently obsessing over what we eat... I am dubious about that) and then we'd be in pain and discomfort, I fail to see how I would NOT then associate hypnosis with something more negative and how I would NOT THEN feel that it's not working for me, how could I then relax and have faith in its efficacy if I don't see immediate result and felt that it required me to get rid of my diet which had worked up till then.
I am of course not sure how to do this all though or how I would know if I didn't have to follow my dietary guidelines or how hypno is meant to work this way. I mean, apparently, it comes down to the individual, I accept that. But I think the best we can do is carry on with the diet, if you've done yours long enough, as I have, it's something that's part of your life and not something you have to overly think about, at least for me, I know what I can eat and how much, I cook for myself entirely , it's all automatic. And then do the hypno till the v end and see then with easing the diet. If it didn't work, start again with hypno until it does 
I have great faith in the hypno, as I do in dieting. I have often said that those who said that they don't know what foods set them off at one time and what at another were probably 1. before FODMAPs were introduced into the whole IBS malarkey and we have to accept that 2. what you eat may only cause you discomfort in two or three days time and that 3. even a normal person without IBS will have digestive woes if they are worrying/stressing about something, ie it's not unusual for a non-IBS person really nervous before a job interview to have D. Someone with IBS will have this anxiety all the time especially if they have a real job to go to/ holiday/ anywhere like that.
I imagine that Marilyn back in the day and Gerikat and many who claim that no diet ever worked for them had had this three-pronged problem which led to them believing that for them no diet could ever have worked and that there was no pattern in their symptoms. This is of course just my (to my mind plausible) suspicion.
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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Oh really! I might be wrong then. I didn't have lactose intolerance before But now I really respond towards dairy.
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PI-IBS-C/A nausea & very bad gastric pain
meds: lansoprazol+macrogol
started EFI +FODMAPs 1/2011. 'Relapse' for 8 months. Now partly back on track again with the diet..
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Hmmm...
well for me it's different in that with my diet, I still get bloating if no other symptoms. Over the course of me doing this hypno bloating was sometimes better so that is when I felt that it does work. Otherwise I am now often eating a bit of my mum's cooking cos I'm living with my family for a couple of months during the summer now. She cooks with a lot more fat than is permissible for me, and I can see how the hypno has not worked for that really in that I experience the fat induced symptoms now that I eat her food.
I have used hypno for pain relief before and I use it for insomnia successfully, that's why my faith in it is still maintained.
Btw I used to observe all FODMAP rules. I now only don't eat lactose and fructose column foods and restrict fructans in that I don't eat onions/leeks/garlic/artichokes/ Brussels sprouts and I only eat a restricted amount of bread/pasta. I eat black beans, broccoli, cauliflower (all well- cooked), peaches, cherries, apricots, plums, which are other warning foods, yet I have no real trouble. Maybe you'd find the same, do you limit all your FODMAP foods?
How else would you ideally tweak your diet? Or in what other ways do you find it really restricted?
IF-wise there is probably a case for too much IF per meal, Syl for instance really restricts his diet this way. Majority of us don't have to. Find the right SFS and make sure you eat more SF than IF, in accordance with: http://huhs.harvard.edu/assets/File/OurServices/Service_Nutrition_Fiber.pdf
Bananas, beans, chickpeas, barley and cooled white rice/pasta/potatoes have more SF-like stuff in that they have resistant starch.
Fat-wise, apart from nuts, healthy eating requires us not to go over the 25 per cent limit per meal anyhow. For cooking with oil, there's these low-kcal sprays that save you calories. (but even for nuts, one banana has say 100kcal, and with it you may eat 3-4 teaspoonfuls of ground almonds/nuts and be OK with the fat, and believe me I know, fat is the bane of my life, suffered enough because of it.)
Anything else I could perhaps try to give tips on?
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now: stable through EFI+FODMAP dieting (no lactose/no fructose/some fructans and some polyols)
before: IBS-D(pseudo-diarrhoea), bloating, often unbearable pain esp from too much fat: Apr 2007- Dec 2010
FODMAPs: http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/072710p30.shtml
[I've tried VSL#3 -> I could tolerate v good amounts of IF (even with less SF), it worked great (but overall I find it too expensive)]
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Suzie, nice to read your story. I hope you're right!
But I am dubious about how hypno will work if you don't have much discomfort because of the diet.. That's what my hypnotherapist also said, it's hard to imagine the (heavy) discomfort if you don't have it at the moment.
I agree with you about why people think dieting doesn't work for them. For me, it was a very long & difficult (&restricted&unhealthy&frustrating ) way to find out what to eat and not have symptoms. I was really stunned that I would have to restrict so much!! I could hardly believe, but I felt I needed to try and continue.. I also found food that hurts me, which is not in both diets (sugar, corn starch)! But I would've never found it, if I wasn't on both of the diets.
It's almost impossible to stick with that diet for weeks-months, if you're not noticing drastic improvement. But I did, because I did feel slight improvement, although I kept having symptoms.
At home, I am indeed getting used to my diet. I don't have to think much about what I can and cannot eat.
A lot of food don't bother me I cannot eat, like alcohol, red meat, egg yolks. But there's also a lot of food I really miss. Like tomatoes, red fruit/yams, cheese, desserts (I can only eat semolina). I do not have alternatives for the food I would like to eat. My diet is really boring, I eat almost the same every (two) days. I think there's some stretch, but not in the direction I would like it to be . Adding food goes really slowly, most of what I try, gives me very bad symptoms.
Hypno also helps me with imsomnia sometimes. And the relaxation also sometimes helps me with pain. It's more the relaxation that helps me at the moment itself. I don't feal it really works through during the day..(?)
Thanx for your tips!
I'm not restricting all the FODMAPs. I fortunately can eat white bread/pasta, as much as I like. Potatoes&rice are no problem. I'm not sure about corn, but I do get symptoms from cornstarch.
I don't eat lactose (all dairy), fructose-FODMAPs, artificial sweeteners and sugar (although trying small amounts at the moment). I'm not really sure about which groups are not suitable for me, it doesn't seem to be that obvious. E.g. I cannot eat tomatoes or berries, asparagus, mango, apple, maple syrup. But wheat and banana is ok, recently found out peaches& a tiny bit orange juice(but not quite sure yet). I have to find out all for myself, I cannot rhyme those colums with my reactions(?) It's just trial and error and it goes really slowly to find out (max 1-2 foods a month or so..)
I'm allergic to all sort of beans and nuts.
Perhaps there's some stretch in the IF I can eat, but haven't found out yet. Now I'm eating courgette and a bit cooked sweet pepper almost every day for vegetables. Getting sick&tired of it!
I tried metamucil & benefiber for a few months. Tried to add really slowly, but it only gave me more discomfort. I quit trying, because I thought there was more progression to make in the diet. I use forlax (stoolsoftener) for my C, which works great, although I always have to look at my poo and change the amounts every few days..
Fat is absolutely a trigger for me. Although I can eat chicken or fish, just out of the pan, with oil or fluid baking-'butter'. Oven baked fries also go well!
The biggest restrictions for me are the vegetables and fruit (I really miss tomatoes and red fruit), no desserts (just semolina from rice milk), no cheese. I feel like I'm only eating SF, with not much taste to it.
What I eat:
Breakfast&lunch: white bread with chicken, egg white, rice syrup, banana.
Afternoon: banana (now trying some peach or a bit orange juice with the banana). Self baked low fat waffle.
Dinner: rice/potatoes/oven baked fries/pasta/noodles/bread; chicken/white fish/salmon; carrots/courgette+sweet pepper, sometimes a tiny bit broccoli.
Dessert: semolina with rice syrup
Evening: pretzels, sometimes self baked waffle.
I do have some discomfort, especially during ovulation/period; my stomach/bowel feels more sensitive. I cannot try new things during those days.
But normally if I stick to the diet, it's very light, doesn't really bother me doing my normal things, I can function normal. I frequently wake up feeling a tiny bit nauseated, it disappeares after a few minutes. but it's not at all like what it was before. I had to lie down several times a day, in heavy pain and very nauseated, exhausted.
I do get (bad) symptoms if I try something wrong now. But if I get it, I immediately go to my basic diet till I stabilise.
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PI-IBS-C/A nausea & very bad gastric pain
meds: lansoprazol+macrogol
started EFI +FODMAPs 1/2011. 'Relapse' for 8 months. Now partly back on track again with the diet..
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Quote:
it's recommended that hypnosis is done alongside other methods
In the reference below written by the UK GI physician, Prof. Whorwell, who did the original studies on gut-directed hypnotherapy and functional GI disorders such as IBS and currently heads the South Manchester Functional Bowel Service , one of the largest functional bowel disorder clinics in Europe, he states
Quote:
However, hypnotherapy should be viewed as an adjunctive treatment rather than as a replacement for conventional approaches, such as the appropriate use of antispasmodics, laxatives, antidiarrhoeals, or dietary manipulation. For instance, the consumption of large amounts of insoluble fibre such as bran can significantly exacerbate the symptoms of IBS [33], and consequently, it would be inappropriate to use hypnotherapy before trying an exclusion of insoluble fibre.
In conclusion, we feel that hypnotherapy is best provided as part of an integrated approach to treating IBS rather than being regarded as a 'stand-alone' treatment. It also has to be remembered that it only helps a finite number of individuals (approximately 70%), and those who do not respond to it become very despondent as they often view hypnotherapy as their last chance to gain some improvement in the quality of their lives. Consequently, it is essential to have a system for supporting those who do not respond and this is much easier to provide if the hypnotherapy forms part of a comprehensive service for looking after these patients.
In the second reference he says
Quote:
However, hypnosis should not be regarded as a panacea as up to 25% of patients fail to respond. Even when patients do improve, conventional approaches to treatment should not necessarily be ignored. Therefore it is still important that lifestyle factors such as diet are also taken into account. In addition, some patients may find that an occasional loperamide or laxative, depending on the bowel habit abnormality, maybe required.
It is clear that the grandfather of gut-directed hypnotherapy considers it important to integrate dietary measures along with other approaches in the management of functional bowel disorders.
Reference
Whorwell, P. J. Hypnotherapy for irritable bowel syndrome: The response of colonic and noncolonic symptoms. . Journal of Psychosomatic Research 64, 621-623 (2008)
Whorwell, P. J., Hypnotherapy for Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders , Hypnogenesis
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Thanks Syl. I have tried 3 different hypnotherapists - Steven Trink (live), Mike Mahoney and John Parada (recorded) without success. I was feeling guily about it and this makes me feel less so.
Cheers
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ibs-d (pseudo)with pain and bloating
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It seems to me that:
1) IBS is probably a bunch of what will eventually be shown to be different conditions, all lumped together now because we don't know enough to separate them out. So some people will find Heather's approach enough to experience great relief; some people will find the FODMAP approach enough; some will need different food restriction; some will get no relief from either; some will find hypno enough, some will need hypno and dietary changes; some will need drugs, either alone or in conjunction with other changes.
2) There are both food-related and emotion-related components to some IBS. To me this looks like a continuum. Some people's symptoms are 90% the result of emotion (a "nervous" tummy) and 10% the result of specific foods; other people's symptoms are 90% the result of food and 10% the result of emotion; and there's a wide range in between. For me, the EFI approach completely eliminates the food-related aspect of my IBS: if I eat the way EFI prescribes, I have no IBS symptoms so long as I'm not anxious - having a pleasant day at home, for example.
I don't obsess about my eating. I have found a way of eating that works for me so I do it. (Well, most of the time.) To put it as simply as possible, thanks to the EFI approach I'm no longer afraid of food.
The anxiety part, however, is still there. And the really awful thing is that the anxiety of the anxiety part is about my IBS. Put me in an extremely stressful situation with a bathroom nearby and my IBS is quiet. Put me in a mildly stressful situation without access to a bathroom and my IBS flares. And - through what I'm sure is a learned response - simply being in a situation without access to a bathroom has become a stressful situation.
I suspect that if I had found the EFI approach the instant I developed IBS, I would never have learned to be anxious about it, would have adjusted my diet, and gone on about my life without undue worry about where the restrooms are on this planet. But I lived with IBS for a number of years during which panic about restrooms was a reasonable response to an out of control gut. Now that I understand my IBS and know how to eat, my conscious mind knows that it's the fear about not finding a restroom that is causing me to need to find a restroom. So I just have to find a way to explain that to the subconscious that is kicking my gut into overdrive.
This is what I hope hypnosis will help me with. If, as a bonus, it also makes it possible for me to eat differently, hurrah! But I'll settle for being able to be stuck in a traffic jam without freaking out.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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To all
#365377 - 07/02/11 08:16 AM
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Gerikat
Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285
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I am sharing my experience not in an attempt to raise suspicion, to make anyone feel guilty, bad or that there is something wrong with you.
I am simply stating that for me, diet did not work. That may not be the case for many others. It is not debatable for me, it is simply the truth.
Marilyn and Michael have been my saving grace. I cannot help but applaud them. My point in my post was to ask all to make sure you give the hypnosis long enough to work, and not give up too quickly. For some, it may not work, and you will have to look at other options.
I don't need to see links to research or studies or anything else, all I need is my body and my trial and error to share my experience. The "experts" have not helped me in the least. I am my own best expert, IMHO.
So, my wish to all is that you find your way, whatever that may be, and that you become well and stay well. There is no right or wrong way, only the way that works for you.
Be well!
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