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Yeast cleanse - safe?
      #355459 - 02/09/10 07:46 PM
Lisa Marie

Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1566
Loc: Lakewood, CO

Some of you may remember me posting about how breastfeeding has been a fabulous cure for my IBS. The last 14 months have been AWESOME, to say the least. But my daughter is starting to wean herself, and after battling thrush off and on since last summer, I am thinking about trying a yeast cleanse of some sort, to make sure it's completely out of my system. I'm going to wait until I'm completely done nursing, but thought I'd bring it up now anyway. The last thing I want is for the yeast to just "hang out" until baby #2 comes along, and then have to go through thrush all over again! No thank you! So just wondering if any of you have done yeast cleanses, which one(s), if they're IBS-safe, etc.... I know nothing about them, so I'm looking for any info you guys have. Thanks!

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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)

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Re: Yeast cleanse - safe? new
      #355460 - 02/09/10 08:38 PM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

It is unlikely that your baby is getting yeast (thrush) from your breast milk. Thrush comes from a vaginal delivery infested with yeast and the baby takes that on during delivery. Your OB/GYN doctor can prescribe some vaginal suppositories that will clear that up rather quickly. Make sure you wash your hands after you use the bathroom and before nursing.

However, your husband may also need to be checked, as yeast infections can be sexually transmitted and often both partners need to rid themselve of yeast in their sexual organs. Otherwise, the yeast just keeps being shared back and forth between husband and wife in a never-ending cycle.

My best to you.

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Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

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Re: Yeast cleanse - safe? new
      #355491 - 02/10/10 11:32 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/tc/thrush-medications

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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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No offense, but... new
      #355534 - 02/10/10 07:44 PM
Lisa Marie

Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1566
Loc: Lakewood, CO

...I've become much of an expert on treating thrush over the last 8 months or so, and I've used EVERY medication out there known to human-kind. I'm not asking for help with that. The thrush seems to be gone at this point (after four rounds of gentian violet, the only thing that really worked), I just want to take extra precautions and make sure it's really gone. Yeast can lay dormant for months before resurfacing, and that's what I'm trying to prevent.

So... my question is regarding yeast "cleanses". Don't health food stores sell these kinds of things? Anyone know what they are, how they work, if they're IBS-safe, etc.?

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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)

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Re: Yeast cleanse - safe? new
      #355536 - 02/10/10 07:48 PM
Lisa Marie

Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1566
Loc: Lakewood, CO

Actually, thrush is completely different from a vaginal yeast infection. Thrush occurs when yeast has infected the milk ducts and yes, it CAN be passed on to the baby during nursing. It can also start with the baby (most common) and get passed to the mother. This is why it's so hard to treat, because Mom and baby can pass it back and forth. It's also why BOTH Mom and baby need to be treated together. Using a vaginal treatment is going to do nothing for a yeast infection of the breast.

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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)

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Re: No offense, but... new
      #355540 - 02/10/10 08:03 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Candida is always present as it helps protect a person from pathogens.

There are millions in the gut and digestive system.

Part of this depends on where the infection occurs, Vaginal or mouth and esphogus.

You might want to have your immune system tested or boost your immune system and take probiotics.

Just fyi from the fungus doctor a very respected site and experts on mycology.


Chronic Candidiasis



Overview

It has been proposed that the asymptomatic colonization with Candida might be associated with a variety of symptoms and cause a "Candida Hypersensitivity Syndrome" [599] This concept was popularized by William Crook, MD in his book The Yeast Connection [491]. Previously, C.O. Truss, a physician from Birmingham, Alabama had proposed the existence of such a malady [2257, 2259]. Other names that have been given to this presumed condition include:
Candida-Related Complex
Polysystemic Candidiasis
Chronic Candidiasis (This term should not be confused with Chronic Mucocutaneous Candidiasis)
The syndrome is theoretically due to an overgrowth of Candida albicans in the gastrointestinal tract or in association with mucous membranes. The syndrome is said to occur in connection with some or all of the following risk factors:
Use of broad spectrum antibiotics
Use of oral contraceptives
Ingestion of diets rich in yeast-containing foods or readily utilizable carbohydrates.
Pregnancy
Tremendous attention by public media and health magazines has created a large body of uncritical publications on this topic [399, 486, 490, 2046, 2256, 2257, 2258, 2259, 2459]. There are no rigorous data to support these concepts. The whole idea is based on historical controls and no working definition has been ever assessed [220]. Although brief communications by the proponents have appeared in major journals [483, 484, 485, 487, 488, 489, 492], the actual studies performed by these physicians do not appear to have been subjected to peer review. The American Academy of Allergy and Immunology published a position paper in 1986 stating that the concept was "speculative and unproven" [84]. Later, a carefully designed study on the topic by Dismukes et al. demonstrated that the condition does not appear to be reproducible or verifiable [599].


Clinical Manifestations

There is a broad range of symptoms that have been associated with this syndrome. They can be classified in the following groups, although it is not clear how many or which of them are required to make a diagnosis nor is there scientific data linking these multiple clinical manifestations with Candida albicans overgrowth [220, 262]:
Vaginal. Recurrent episodes of Candida vaginitis associated with the classic symptoms of pruritus, burning and abnormal discharge.
Gastrointestinal. Heartburn, bloating, diarrhea or constipation.
Respiratory allergy. Rhinitis, sneezing and/or wheezing.
Central nervous system. Anxiety, depression, memory deficits and/or loss of ability to concentrate.
Menstrual abnormalities. Severe premenstrual tension and/or menstrual irregularities.
Other Systemic Symptoms. Fatigue, headache and/or irritability.
Specific Diagnostic Strategies

The proponents of the existence of this syndrome base their diagnosis on the clinical picture previously discussed [490, 491, 2459]. There is no laboratory test that allows a clear identification of patients affected with this presumed disorder. Actually, "no clear definition of the disease has ever been advanced" [220]. Considering these facts, it is impossible to set criteria to establish and identify patients affected with this supposed disease.

From a practical viewpoint, we recommend that all women with recurrent vaginitis be carefully evaluated for possible causative factors. Patients with more general complaints should receive a general physical examination. A CBC, general serum chemistries (including liver enzymes), and thyroid studies should be checked to eliminate the possibility of an anemia, subclinical hepatitis, and so forth. Finally, Renfro et al. reported that approximately two-thirds of patients with chronic fatigue had an underlying psychiatric diagnosis [1893].


Treatment

Proponents of this syndrome have recommended such therapies as:
Long-term therapy with antifungal agents at increasing doses until resolution of symptoms. Oral and usually vaginal nystatin are recommended. Other azoles, such as ketoconazole have been also used [262].
Diet modification including restriction of sugar and other simple carbohydrates [487].
Candida allergy shots [220].
Avoidance of mouldy environments [220].
The value of these therapies is unknown. Dismukes et al. conducted a prospective double-blind study to assess the impact of antifungal therapy on this condition [599]. This study compared oral and vaginal nystatin with placebo in 42 premenopausal women with the presumed diagnosis of chronic candidiasis. The remarkable finding of this study was that nystatin did not "reduce systemic or psychological symptoms more than placebo did "[599]. One of the major proponents of the syndrome, Doctor William Crook criticized the study by saying that nystatin is no more than one of the components of the "comprehensive and multimodal therapy" required for this condition [487]. The same author agreed on the urgent need for more scientific studies on the topic. However, a recently done and detailed Medline search on the topic yielded only the data that we have discussed.


Chronic Candidiasis FAQ

We often receive inquiries about the diagnosis and treatment of chronic candidiasis. Here is our FAQ list:
How can I decide if I have chronic candidiasis? Answer: We don't know. The syndrome has never been clearly defined and a workable diagnostic approach has never been put forth. While we have no doubt that there are individuals who suffer from some (or all) of the symptoms listed above, we are not aware of any testing procedure that can link these symptoms to a candidal infection.


My doctor cultured Candida from my stool. What does this mean? Answer: Candida spp. are frequent asymptomatic colonizers of the skin and bowel. Such cultures are of little significance unless you are critically ill in an ICU or are receiving cancer chemotherapy.


I took _______ (name of drug) or I altered my diet to include (or exclude) _______ (name of food) and now I feel better. Doesn't that mean I have (had) chronic candidiasis? Answer: The most common form of this question is "I took fluconazole and now I feel better--does this mean I had chronic candidiasis?" While we're glad you feel better, response to fluconazole is not a diagnostic tool. The various antifungal drugs have effects that go beyond the fungi (for example, fluconazole interacts with the enzyme systems of people, not just of fungi) and many diseases have a natural course of progression and regression. Similar concepts apply to changes in diet. If something makes you feel better, we're delighted for you. We just don't know what it means.


I still really think I might have chronic candidiasis. What should I do? Answer: At the risk of being repetitive, we'll say it again: We don't know of any useful approaches to diagnosing or treating chronic candidiasis. You should see a competent physician and be checked for the things that we do know how to diagnose (see discussion above). If these tests are negative, then we have nothing too specific to offer other than sympathy. We are not denying your symptoms. Rather, we honestly don't know what to do about them. If you can identify something that makes you feel better, then we'll cheer for you!


Is "yeast" the same as Candida? Answer: The term "yeast" is relatively imprecise. Medical mycologists use this term to describe fungi that reproduce predominantly by budding or fission. There are many genera of fungi that fit in this category. Beer and bread makers use the term to refer to Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Doctors sometimes use the term "yeast infection" to refer to Candida spp. and its diseases. For example, yeast vaginitis is the colloquial phrase for candidal vaginitis.

http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/candida/Chronic_Candidiasis.htm


Some of these online treatments could possibly effect IBS, it depends on whats in them and there are a lot because people make a lot of money off them.

Dr Weil and candida

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA125503

If your having a lot of reoccuring Vaginal, mouth or esphogus thrush you should really talk to a doctor. IT maybe happening because something else is off.

Are you on any other medications?





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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: No offense, but... new
      #355643 - 02/12/10 09:15 AM
Lisa Marie

Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1566
Loc: Lakewood, CO

Very interesting... reminds me of most of the doctors I talk to about this. "Here's some nystatin, it should fix everything". And after that, "Here's some diflucan, that should fix it." And the "broad range of symptoms" they mention, well, those could describe lots of things! Sure, I can click off several things on that list, but I doubt that means much. And that's the feeling I get from reading the rest of that info.

First of all, I want to re-iterate: I don't have a vaginal yeast infection. For breastfeeding moms, thrush affects the nipples and milk ducts. That's it. If baby gets it, it affects their mouth. But my daughter (thankfully) never showed any physical signs of having it herself.

I've been symptom free for over a month now, so I guess I'll just hope it's gone. I was just hoping there was some sort of treatment I could use once I'm done nursing that would for sure erase every last drop in my system. The other problem with yeast is that there's many different forms. For example, with my first outbreak, nystatin worked great. Second one, not so much, but diflucan did. Third time, diflucan didn't do anything, but gentin violet did. It's like the strains mutate, which makes it even more frustrating.

The only medication I take is a low dose progesterone-only birth control pill. I don't have much faith in the pill-form pro-biotics; I've always used Bio-K during my outbreaks, but it's too expensive to use every day.

Thanks, Shawneric.

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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)

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Re: No offense, but... new
      #355652 - 02/12/10 10:59 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Lisa Marie, like other organisms in the body like gut bacteria, the candida is there for a reason to help protect agaisnt pathogens for one. So its not likely anyone could get rid of all of it.

"I don't have much faith in the pill-form pro-biotics"

There are others ways of course and they might help keep things in check.


"""Candida albicans, and other strains of Candida are yeast that normally inhabits our digestive system: the mouth, throat, intestines and genitourinary tract. Candida is a normal part of the bowel flora (the organisms that naturally live inside our intestines, and are not parasitic). It has many functions inside our digestive tract, one of them to recognize and destroy harmful bacteria. Without Candida albicans in our intestines we would be defenseless against many pathogen bacteria. Healthy persons can have millions of Candida albicans."

There is some good and some questionable info here and this was written in 98.

http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVOctNov98p91.html

Hopefully you'll be okay.



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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: No offense, but... new
      #355696 - 02/12/10 03:06 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Lisa Marie, you sound so well informed, and I guess so after dealing with this for so long. You have the first hand experience, as a new mom. I think you may be your own best expert.

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Re: No offense, but... new
      #355864 - 02/15/10 08:23 PM
Lisa Marie

Reged: 07/17/06
Posts: 1566
Loc: Lakewood, CO

Thanks, shawneric. i'm beginning to think I'm just one of those "predisposed" people, given my history of long term prednisone use (when I had a herniated disc), and various antibiotics. I guess I will just have to hope for the best when it's time for baby #2 .

I do agree that you make a good point - yeast, like bacteria, are in our bodies for a reason, and I shouldn't mess with that. thanks for your help!

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)

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