"This food is unsafe for me!"
#353627 - 12/30/09 05:50 PM
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There is something very important to think about when deciding what foods are troublesome for you- HOW you eat them. Many times over the years people have had issue with stuff that is safe and makes no sense to cause problems. For example, one time someone claimed to be ok with egg beaters but egg whites bothered them. This person did not realize that egg beaters is just egg whites with additives to make it yellow and thicker. So that makes no sense. My guess? Sometimes we eat things that are not unsafe but we get a reaction anyway but that food is ok for your gut health.
Another example, I got yucky and bloated one morning recently after cereal that I can readily eat in the evening. I ate too much and too early. It was not the cereal since I eat it all the time at night without problems. I used to always eat meals of jasmine rice and cooked carrots, both very safe foods for me, but when I would eat this meal I would really shovel it in and then feel icky afterward. Eating a moderate amount slowly is just fine!
There are so many other factors besides the exact food item! It makes safe food sometimes seem unsafe. It is still safe since it doesn't CAUSE spasms and reactions. The best thing to do is follow the guidelines. You then avoid foods that have time and again PROVEN unsafe for IBSers. It pays to be safe rather than sorry when it comes to the trigger foods. It doesn't mean you won't have additional problem foods and it doesn't mean stress won't be a big factor too, but it will give the irritable gut the best chance it has. Coddle that gut like a spoiled child. And remember many people have gotten stable eating the recommended diet.
P.S. like Heather says, please eat IF but do it safely! Don't avoid it entirely!
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Food is the straw...not the issue.
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I wish that were true, but when I think I am stable and want a treat and eat something like brie cheese, I will be in the crapper within a few hours. Eating tolerable food is a must to give the gut its best chance! Food is part of the treatment, along with how we eat and when, and stress, and exercise and everything. In fact, eating safely results in less stress. It is not true that watching what we eat makes more stress. And it is so not true that not bothering to think about safe food so as to not cause worry about eating a bad food could ever make a person feel better. If they have that much trouble controlling their worries eating anything they want will not change it.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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It is my truth.
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I understand that you disagree with my position that food has little to do with IBS symptoms and that restricting the diet severely creates unnecessary food stress which can cause symptoms, but I wish you would acknowledge that perhaps for some of us it is possible, because, as Geri says, it is true for her, and it is true for me as well.
For you to make a statement that it absolutely is not true disregards our experience. Everyone's end goal is the same - to feel as well as we can, but as has been said many times on this board, we each have to find our own way. All we know is what is true for ourselves, especially since IBS symptoms vary so widely and are affected by so many things.
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First I do not disagree with the idea that there is a lot more to managing symptoms than food. That is what my post was about. Sometimes it is how food is eaten that causes problems. Plus we all know there is a lot more to managing IBS than just the food!
I can't be okay with this 'unnecessary food stress' theory because it doesn't make sense and could cause people who may otherwise get stable to never do so. You cannot treat IBS by eating whatever you want and thus not turning your mind to the fact that you have IBS. Your gut is not that easily fooled! Your gut will have problems digesting the hard to digest food whether you think about it or not.
Plus not thinking about the fact that you have IBS will not change the fact that your subconscience knows you have it. I am not saying that you shouldn't do anything besides eat right! You still can do a lot by finding methods to deal with stress etc, but if you think you can fool your gut by not thinking about what food goes in you are doing yourself a harm. Mind over matter can work for many things -like you smell or see something gross and don't let yourself get sick to your stomach- or you try not to think about being thirsty -or you work through a light cramp when exercising. IBS is specifically and technically the matter or gut controlling the mind. The gut decides what to do and your mind cannot overrule it.
If you want to control stress, work on not getting stressed when avoiding foods. There is no reason avoiding certain food should make someone anxious. There should be no such thing as 'unnecessary food stress.' If you want me to be honest that is just an excuse to eat what tastes good when it is really hard to give up certain foods. The word for that is delusion. It is not reducing stress but deluding yourself into thinking you are reducing stress. If anything, eating IBS safe food should cause less stress that could impact the gut. When you have 'safe foods' it should ease your gut as much as a heating pad. I wish you would listen to me because I truly believe it will help you.
Think about when you suspect you are getting a cold. I suppose you feel that if you think about or treat the cold you will stress yourself out more and then come down with it? The virus is in your body and unless you treat it you cannot talk yourself out of being sick. We all try that but if you have a virus, you have a virus. Does it make it worse to think you may have it? Sometimes we tell ourselves that but of course it isn't true. Would it be best to acknowledge the cold is imminent and take whatever treatment you think works? yes.
My advice is to not stress when eating- we agree on that. But first eat safe foods and let yourself completely relax while doing so. Make it careless and happy. Try to have that free feeling you have when letting go with friends and doing whatever you want- but just do it while eating more safely. Sure everyone needs to make their mealtimes as relaxed as can be (lots of people get abdominal problems from mealtime stress- not just people with IBS. Some parents have ruined their children to eating without pain because of horrible mealtimes!), but not letting your brain know it has IBS isn't possible. Acknowledge it and be cool about it but still know your gut will react to foods. And please see that I am trying to help. I want to help and don't want someone to get pi**ed because I have a different view.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Heather's supplements have helped me a lot. I use the acacia fiber and fennel tea everyday, and the peppermint capsules as needed for cramping and pain. I appreciate all that she has done for the IBS community. My perspective about diet and IBS are my own, and I acknowledge that the EFI diet works for others while also accepting that it does not work for me.
I can see that this discussion is going no where because you and I disagree on a fundamental level. I'm going to take my perspective on IBS and diet elsewhere, as I do realize this is the eating for IBS board and the focus will always be on diet. Take care and good luck!
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Little Minnie,
It seems to be a waste of time explaining the benefits of dietary management to some people no matter how many of us on this board benefit greatly from it or that the IBS research shows there is a benefit. I chuckle at some of the posting thinking 'I wish they would live in my body and try and eat anything they wanted.' The pain and discomfort would soon change their minds. Sometimes, I think we have to simply explain that this is a Eating for IBS forum for discussing IBS dietary management. Oh well - over time this problem resolves as the dietary nay sayers tend move on to other IBS message boards.
Happy New Year 
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Frygirl
#353691 - 01/01/10 09:06 AM
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Gerikat
Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285
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Just don't read the posts of the people that aggravate you. That is what I do. Same advice that was given to Windchimes regarding Shawn. 
I love reading your posts. Your are well spoken/written with info that has been valuable to me. Stick around and just ignore those that would irritate you. 
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Think about this. How can problems with our digestive tract not have anything to do with the foods that are digested there? It absolutely cannot be possible to have a functional bowel disorder have nothing to do with food. It would be like having garden problems and believing they had nothing to do with soil.
Everyone who has ever reached stability and then eaten badly and gotten ill, sometimes for weeks after from one slip up, can tell you with certainty that food caused their reaction. Unless you have no symptoms and have reached stability there is no basis for you to make the statement that food has nothing to do with your symptoms. If you are having any symptoms then there is room for improvement. You can't cure IBS but you can hope to live nearly symptom free from day to day. If you are not, isn't it possible that you are wrong and diet is important? Do you really think that if diet didn't improve IBS that Heather would have helped stabilize so many people who follow her advice? and do you really think you are either so much different than all those thousands of IBS sufferers or so much more astute than them?
I hate to say this but you are right, this is a website focused on improving IBS through diet and other things. The diet is the main part. I'm not saying you shouldn't post but be aware that the whole basis of this forum is to discuss getting stable primarily by means of the food that goes through our digestive tracts. If you haven't discovered what foods should be avoided, please keep trying. Many people don't get immediate results because they aren't in fact eating the right foods but think they are. I had a hard time finding the right foods at first. I ate soy nuts and PB roll ups and stuff not real safe, thinking I was eating safe. It was the old pros on this forum (who are now gone) who helped me get it right. They used their own time and experience to gladly help others. I am grateful for that and hope my time and experience can help others too. Many posters on this forum now would rather get offended by someone trying to help than to be even a little appreciative that they are really trying.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Gerikat I have sensed for months that you have a specific problem with me. I would like to know what it is. If it was when I told you what parts make up a whole grain then sorry, but I didn't know you knew. This forum has always maintained friendliness. Heather is the nicest person and has set a great tone here that would be good to keep.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Food's are a trigger in IBS not the cause. That is important for people to know and understand.
Certain foods aggravate the underlying condition, sometimes just the act of eating itself which is in Heather's books as well.
Heather does an excellent job of providing dietary management guidelines and help. They might not fit perfectly to all people and all foods. There is no exact diet for IBS for every person to follow. Heather has helped a lot of people manage their diet and why certain foods can cause problems with people. This is a good thing for people. Its known in research that there is mild, moderate and severe IBS and different treatments depending on the serverity. Understanding why certain foods and stress reduction effect IBS and what you can do to help yourself has shown to really help people.
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From the Chairman of the rome committe to diagnose IBS and one of the worlds leading authorities on IBS.
Since I have suffered for thirty eight of IBS I wonder what role foods play in IBS. So I asked Dr Douglas Drossman at the UNC Center for Functional GI and Motility disorders and here was his response. This is not a substitute for seeking medical advise from your doctor on any specific conditions you may have, but for educational purposes only.
Dr. Drossman is a Co-director of the Center and Professor of Medicine and Psychiatry at UNC-CH. He established a program of research in functional gastrointestinal disorders at UNC more than 15 years ago and has published more than 250 books, articles, and abstracts relating to epidemiology, psychosocial and quality of life assessment, design of treatment trials, and outcomes research in gastrointestinal disorders.
Dr Drossman's comments on foods for IBS Health.
Shawn,
To say that people with IBS may get symptoms from food intolerances is an acceptable possibility, since the gut will over react to stressors of all types including food (high fat or large volumes of food in particular). Furthermore, there can be specific intolerances. So if you have a lactose intolerance for example, it can exacerbate, or even mimic IBS. Other examples of food substances causing diarrhea would be high consumers of caffeine or alcohol which can stimulate intestinal secretion or with the latter, pull water into the bowel (osmotic diarrhea). The same would be true for overdoing certain poorly absorbed sugars that can cause an osmotic type of diarrhea Sorbitol, found in sugarless gum and sugar substituted foods can also produce such an osmotic diarrhea. Even more naturally, people who consume a large amount of fruits, juices or other processed foods enriched with fructose, can get diarrhea because it is not as easily absorbed by the bowel and goes to the colon where it pulls in water. So if you have IBS, all of these food items would make it worse.
However, it is important to separate factors that worsen IBS (e.g., foods as above, stress, hormonal changes, etc.) from the cause or pathophysiology of IBS. Just like stress doesn't cause IBS, (though it can make it worse), foods must be understood as aggravating rather than etiological in nature.
The cause of IBS is yet to be determined. However, modern research understands IBS as a disorder of increased reactivity of the bowel, visceral hypersensitivity and dysfunction of the brain-gut axis. There are subgroups being defined as well, including post-infectious IBS which can lead to IBS symptoms. Other work using brain imaging shows that the pain regulation center of the brain (cingulate cortex) can be impaired, as well as good evidence for there being abnormalities in motility which can at least in part explain the diarrhea and constipation. So finding a specific "cause" of IBS has grown out of general interest in place of understanding physiological subgroups that may become amenable to more specific treatments. Hope that helps.
Doug
http://www.ibshealth.com/ibsfoods2.htm
Diet is important in IBS for a lot of reasons and they do vary between people. Some can eat things others cannot.
There is no exact diet for IBS, but again guidelines and reasons why certain foods cause symptoms, or even the act of eating itself can cause symptoms.
I do have to say, not here but elsewhere I have seen a lot of people develop food phobias from IBS and that is very important that it is explained an treated as well. Malnutrition can also be an issue.
To much empahsis on only foods or only stress or whatever maynot be a good thing, its a balancing act. Both need to be looked and adressed for the best possible outcomes.
Heather has done a great job with her dietary guidelines and her books to help IBSers understand this is a complex condition.
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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com
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I agree with everything that you are saying. When I first joined the boards the experience and teachings of the older members who were stable was invaluable to me and getting stable. These boards have functioned for years with the stable members helping the newbies learn how to use the EFI diet to become stable.
It is very sad to say but in the past year or so the boards have taken on a different tone. Those that are skeptical seem to be taking control of the boards and making those of us that believe in the diet feel as if we are wrong.
The friendliness and positive support has changed to people taking offense to comments made that don't agree with their opinion. Those that seem to be taking offense are the same people who have no trouble letting their opinions be known but don't want to hear any opposing opinion from others.
I really miss the sense of friendship that we used to have here. The IBS boards used to be a place where one could come for comfort, friendship and advice. The groups that have formed who have different ideas and seem to go against what Heather has worked so hard to provide, seem clickish and are very open about exluding members who do not feel the same way. Instead of coming to the boards for comfort it feels like high school. This is an open forum where anyone that is a member can comment on any topic. No one has the right to post a thread that excludes other members from commenting.
You are right that there are other issues that effect our IBS symptoms. We cannot pretend that food has nothing to do with IBS. I am like you and after being stable for months I can cheat and have an attack. The foods that cause my attacks are the same foods that I have been avoiding which allowed me to become stable. For me personally stress and anxiety are also triggers and food is on equal footing with both.
The bottom line is that this is a forum to discuss the IBS diet. If some have other views why not discuss the diet on these boards and find another board to discuss your different way of thinking or dealing with IBS that conflict with the EFI diet.
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Janey
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I agree. Do you think there is anything to be done?
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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LM
#353835 - 01/03/10 11:32 AM
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Janey
Reged: 10/25/03
Posts: 1716
Loc: Maryland
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I am not sure what can be done. It it hard to make people act friendly towards each other. It seems that everyone is so sensative and takes so many things personal when it isn't. I think we all need to be kinder to each other and stop judging but I don't know how to make that happen.
All I know is that I really, really miss the support and kindness that we used to experience here.
Maybe the angry, judgement and argumentative posts need to be removed. I know that would be a big job though especially these days. Somehow it needs to be made clear that those types of posts are unacceptable. Not sure how though.
I know other message boards have rules that have to be followed. It has always been nice that these boards don't have strict rules but maybe it is time for certain rules for things that go against what the boards stand for.
I don't think Heather intended the boards to be a place to debate, argue or judge others. At least it wasn't like that when I joined 6 years ago.
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Janey
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