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help quick
      #352326 - 11/17/09 11:30 AM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

am doing a home food test kit and i have just pricked my finger i cant get enough blood in tub am scared the results wont be right now it was only a bit full the tub cost me 5o uk pounds cant get another one help

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ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: help quick new
      #352329 - 11/17/09 11:39 AM
dragonfly

Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 1088
Loc: canada

prick the other finger

--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.


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Re: help quick new
      #352331 - 11/17/09 11:56 AM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

it did and nil came out i have started the test with only little blood thik it will work sacred now saved hard for this test

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Re: help quick new
      #352333 - 11/17/09 12:09 PM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

think messed it up well results in am unhappy
yeast cows milk cashews rice gluten almonds whole egg Brazil nuts rye omg they all came up but faintly

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ibs c with trapped gas


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Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352334 - 11/17/09 12:12 PM

Unregistered




http://www.achooallergy.com/foodallergy-test-kit.asp

if not,would that one help u? its cheap...oh maybe not lab test $99

Edited by aperson (11/17/09 12:15 PM)

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352336 - 11/17/09 12:22 PM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

thank you am so upset and confused now and wish i had not messed it up you think thats why i never got good feed back i no for a fact cant have wheat and never came up omg am so sad

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ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352337 - 11/17/09 12:34 PM
dragonfly

Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 1088
Loc: canada

Wheat may mean no gluten.
Try omitting bread ask on th eboards what to eat when going gluten free

--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352340 - 11/17/09 12:56 PM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

i never eat berad any way hun i just thought that soya milk may come up cas am up the wall with milk and what to have soya or goats cant make mind up am so confused

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ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352341 - 11/17/09 01:17 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Julieb,

The reason Prof. Whorwell's team has you on a low wheat diet is not because you have a wheat allergy. A low wheat diet is part of a low fructose diet for managing IBS.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352344 - 11/17/09 02:26 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Julie, how about rice milk? I don't tolerate soy well and so rice milk is my preferred milk substitute.

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352347 - 11/17/09 03:56 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Your seeing DR Whorewell?

--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352352 - 11/17/09 04:33 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

No. I recommended Julieb see him. I believe she has been seeing his team now for nearly a year. I am uncertain if she has started hypnotherapy yet. Perhaps she can tell us.

I have read many of his research papers. He is definitely a world leader in GI research.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352354 - 11/17/09 04:46 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

He is probably the senior Gastro doc in England. Very well respected and yes the first person to do hypnotherapy for IBS. Then DR Palsson at the unc and of course our Mike's of Mike's tapes.

--------------------
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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352392 - 11/18/09 10:25 AM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

hi there yes i did see his team but now i see professor whorwell hes amassing mad i love him to bits been a great help got me on the right medicine helping me going the loo right but its my diet i am not coping with
am am get hypnotized this coming feb i cant wait
i just wish i new what was the right food i play with my diet one min ok next not i have gone back on goats milk today cos i woke bloated pains i have been have little lose bm am so down i but a food test and all when wrong never got enough blood i guess one person that gave me good advice was sly on low fructose foods thank you sly

--------------------
ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352396 - 11/18/09 10:51 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

julieb123, Dr Whorewell is a top doctor and will help you out and understands IBS and listens. Hang in there. Have you talk to him about foods in general.



--------------------
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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352398 - 11/18/09 11:04 AM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

i no thank you and thank you for careing all you guys on this site are my only friends and its just waiting till feb to see him again am in pain and really dont no what foods doing this to me

--------------------
ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352403 - 11/18/09 11:44 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

List some foods you eat regularly.

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352405 - 11/18/09 11:54 AM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

gluten free cornflakes, raspberries, soya, or goats milk, kiwis,
gluten free corn snacks, (haribo sweets some times) yellow fish, carrots, squash, salad, mango, strawberries ,lots fennel and peppermint tea i have laxaberl medicen for my consapation

--------------------
ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352408 - 11/18/09 12:19 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Goats milk is high in tryptophan and that could be an issue perhaps with IBS.

Not sure how much fat is in goats milk. Fats can be a problem, but you have to have some fats for a good diet.

strawberries not to sure of personally, pretty high in fiber, but I remember vaguely about some chemical in them. I would not over eat them. If I personally eat to many of them I know I can have problems with them.

Don't eat salad on an empty stomach, eat it after a meal and it depends some of the type of greens.

Mango is good, so is papaya, but again not over do it.

Not to sure about kiwi, but again not over do it.

Doesn't to me look to bad of a list. What kind of yellow fish?

Have you ever worked with a registered dietian?

Do you have celiac?



--------------------
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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352409 - 11/18/09 12:23 PM
julieb123

Reged: 07/19/07
Posts: 728
Loc: uk liverpool

my goats milk is low fat i just don't get all this diet stuff am sorry i have seen dietin but me on high fiber diet profess whorwell took me right of it again cant work out goats OK one min then soya OK one min but i guess soya has lots beans so bloating me
i have st helen's farm milk

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ibs c with trapped gas


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352412 - 11/18/09 12:32 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Hang in there you have a good doctor who will help you.



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352415 - 11/18/09 12:44 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Shawneric

Prof Whorwell's team has her on a low excess fructose diet. Papaya and Mango are to be avoided at this point because they contain more fructose than glucose. Kiwi is on the safe list. It is low in wheat because wheat is high in fructans (chains of fructose molecules) and I think they recommend a low gluten diet to reduce wheat consumption.

You can read more about in the link in my signature or here.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Julieb,is this the test? new
      #352461 - 11/19/09 01:52 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

The fructose can be a problem. It can contribute to the bloating and can contribute to D.

I thought she was somewhat C and that can help make you go. But I cannot remember is she had c or not really.

It was also the reason I said don't over do them, because they can cause osmotic d. They might help c people some though.

Papaya, is one of those "superfoods" and probably on the top three of a fruit with a nutritional value and is a natural aid for digestion, one it heps break down protein.

But again, if fructose is a problem that can be an issue.



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Fructose Malabsorption in IBS subtypes new
      #352466 - 11/19/09 03:22 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Shawneric,

You may find this interesting.

A recent study by an outstanding Australian GI research group looked a fructose and lactose malabsorption across a variety of GI disorders. They found that fructose malabsorption occured with about equal amounts (48-55%) in IBS-C & IBS-D and about twice as often compared to IBS-A (24%).

Here is more detail

They looked at the occurence of fructose malabsorption, lactose malabsorption and ERBAL (Early Rise in Breath Hydrogen after Lactulose - that use to be the standard test for SIBO) across a variety of GI disorders and healthy individuals. Below is some data extracted from the more extensive Table 2 in the reference below.

Below are the percentages of the population in a variety of groups that tested positive for fructose malabsorption, lactose malabsorption, and ERBAL. The numbers in the brackets are the number of individuals in the group.

Healthy volunteers (71)
  • Fructose = 34%, Lactose = 18%, ERBAL = 39%

    Crohn's disease (92)
  • Fructose = 61%, Lactose = 42%, ERBAL = 20%
    Ulcerative colitis (56)
  • Fructose = 42%, Lactose = 40%, ERBAL = 25%
    Coeliac disease – newly diagnosed (79)
  • Fructose = 34%, Lactose = 11%, ERBAL = 29%
    Coeliac disease – treated (57)
  • Fructose = 33%, Lactose = 21%, ERBAL = 14%

    All Functional GI disorders taken together (201)
  • Fructose = 45%, Lactose = 25%, ERBAL = 27%

    Individual Function GI disorders
    IBS-C (29)
  • Fructose = 55%, Lactose = 18%, ERBAL = 38%
    IBS-D (44)
  • Fructose = 48%, Lactose = 18%, ERBAL = 23%
    IBS-A (21)
  • Fructose = 24%, Lactose = 29%, ERBAL = 14%
    Functional Bloating (24)
  • Fructose = 50%, Lactose = 38%, ERBAL = 25%
    Functional Constipation (36)
  • Fructose = 44%, Lactose = 32%, ERBAL = 31%
    Functional Diarrhea (28) )
  • Fructose = 59%, Lactose = 22%, ERBAL = 32%
    Unspecified (19)
  • Fructose = 25%, Lactose = 29%, ERBAL = 25%


    Reference
    BARRETT, J. S., IRVING, P. M., SHEPHERD, S. J., MUIR, J. G., & GIBSON, P. R. (2009). Comparison of the prevalence of fructose and lactose malabsorption across chronic intestinal disorders . Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 30(2), 165-174

    --------------------
    STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

    The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
    Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
    FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
    The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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  • Re: Fructose Malabsorption in IBS subtypes new
          #352499 - 11/20/09 10:00 AM
    shawneric

    Reged: 01/30/03
    Posts: 1738
    Loc: Oregon

    Syl, I am not sure I understand this study yet.

    They use Lactulose breath testing? Or hydrogen? Because Lactulose breath testing is a very inaccurate test.

    Second, I am somewhat confused here on the term malabsorbtion as opposed to true fructose malabsortion or intolerence.

    Large amounts of fructose can cause osmotic d

    http://www.ibshealth.com/ibsfoods2.htm


    The conclusion of the study was "Conclusions Carbohydrate malabsorption and ERBHAL are normal physiological phenomena. The abnormal patterns observed in Crohn's disease may have pathogenic importance."



    FYI

    Nutrition: Carbohydrate malabsorption in chronic intestinal disorders
    Nature Reviews Gastroenterology & Hepatology 6, 9 (01 September 2009) ' doi:10.1038/nrgastro.2009.132
    StandfirstMalabsorption of short-chain carbohydrates and an early rise in breath hydrogen after lactulose challenge do not necessarily indicate a chronic intestinal disorder.


    Original article
    Barrett, J. S. et al. Comparison of the prevalence of fructose and lactose malabsorption across chronic intestinal disorders. Aliment. Pharmacol. Ther. 30, 165–174 (2009). PubMed


    Malabsorption of short-chain carbohydrates and an early rise in breath hydrogen after lactulose challenge do not necessarily indicate a chronic intestinal disorder.

    Fructose malabsorption is a normal event," say lead researchers Jacqueline

    "People with IBS and other functional gut disorders are no more likely to have fructose malabsorption than are healthy people,"

    http://www.functionalglycomics.org/fg/update/2009/090910/full/nrgastro.2009.132.shtml

    Fructose Malabsorption and Symptoms of
    Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Guidelines for
    Effective Dietary Management

    "However, more than one in
    three adults with symptoms of IBS are unable to absorb
    a fructose load of 25 to 50 g and, therefore, have fructose
    malabsorption (3,8,9). Second, fructose malabsorption is
    not specific to patients with IBS. The limited data available suggest that its prevalence in the IBS population is similar to that in asymptomatic controls (9). As outlined
    earlier, the response to fructose is exaggerated in patients
    with IBS compared with those without IBS."

    http://sacfs.asn.au/download/SueShepherd_sarticle.pdf





    --------------------
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    Response - Part 1 new
          #352545 - 11/20/09 05:52 PM
    Syl

    Reged: 03/13/05
    Posts: 5499
    Loc: SK, CANADA

    Let me answer you question in two parts.

    The first part addresses the questions you asked about the research that I pointed out to you.

    The second part which I will post later will explain what is meant by fructose malabsorption, how it differs from hereditary fructose intolerance and how management of dietary fructose and fructans (molecules made up of chains of fructose molecules) is beneficial for the management of IBS-D and IBS-C.

    The researchers in the study used the lactulose test and checked for early rise breath hydrogen. They were trying to show early rise hydrogen in the breath test after ingesting lactulose is a common physiological response and not a valid test for SIBO. Like Drossman and others they found this to be the case and concluded it is an inaccurate test for SIBO.

    In addition they showed that fructose malabsorption and lactose malabsorption, which are also diagnosed with a breath test, are common physiological responses. About 35% of health individuals and 45% of the FGID population have fructose malabsorption. And a significant percentage of IBS-D and IBS-C (48-55%) population suffers from fructose malabsorption. It isn't strictly associated with IBS-D.

    In summary this research shows that lactose and fructose malabsorption are not causes of FGIDs perhaps with the exception of Crohn's disease where the high occurrence (61%) of fructose malabsorption is currently unexplainable. The lactulose breath test is not reliable for diagnosing SIBO. And fructose malabsorption affects a significant percentage of FGID population and occurs equally as frequently in the IBS-D and IBS-C population.

    Now turn let us ask another question. Can dietary fructose be an IBS trigger?

    Note the last sentence in the quote you posted from Sue Shepherd's article. It says "As outlined earlier, the response to fructose is exaggerated in patients with IBS compared with those without IBS." She and others in the Australian research team have gone further. The published a study reference below with a link to the abstract in the research library reporting the results of a small clinical trial. They wanted to see whether dietary fructose restriction or more generally speaking whether poorly absorbed short-chain carbohydrates (sometimes called FODMAPs) such as fructose and fructans improved IBS symptoms. They found in IBS patients with fructose malabsorption, which is about 50% of the total IBS population, that dietary restriction of fructose and/or fructans improved IBS symptoms.

    Generally speaking it seems that dietary fructose and fructans can be IBS triggers for approximately 50% of the IBS populations. It is worth while considering restricting certain foods when designing a personal IBS management plan.

    In the next posting I will explain the difference between fructose malabsorption and hereditary fructose intolerance and what is meant by restricted dietary fructose and/or fructan consumption in the pratical design of a personal IBS management plan.

    Reference
    Shepherd, S. J., Parker, F. C., Muir, J. G., & Gibson, P. R. (2008). Dietary Triggers of Abdominal Symptoms in Patients With Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Randomized Placebo-Controlled Evidence . Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology, 6, 765-771

    --------------------
    STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

    The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
    Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
    FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
    The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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    Response - Part 2 new
          #352557 - 11/21/09 06:53 AM
    Syl

    Reged: 03/13/05
    Posts: 5499
    Loc: SK, CANADA

    There are two type of fructose problems: hereditary fructose intolerance and fructose malabsorption. There is no such thing as fructose intolerance. It is a misnomer usually used to mean fructose malabsorption.

    Hereditary fructose intolerance is a hereditary condition caused by a deficiency of liver enzymes that metabolise fructose. This condition is usually detected in childhood. It requires the elimination of all foods containing fructose including table sugar (sucrose). This disease can be fatal if not managed properly.

    Fructose malabsorption is the inability of the small intestine to absorb excess fructose. Excess fructose means foods that contain more fructose than glucose. Table sugar has no excess fructose because it contains precisely equal amounts of glucose and fructose. Honey on the other hand, has about 5 grams of excess fructose because it contains about 41 grams of fructose and 36 grams of glucose per 100 grams.

    Fructose that is accompanied with an equal amount of glucose as in the case of table sugar is absorbed in the small intestine by a different pathway (GLUT2 transporter) than free fructose (GLUT5 transporter). Fructose is well absorbed in the presence of amounts of glucose in the proximal small intestine whereas free fructose is slowly absorbed and along the length of the small intestine. Fructose malabsorption will occur when the activity of GLUT5 is impaired or when small intestinal bacteria are able to ferment the fructose before it can be absorbed. Fructose malabsorption, is defined by the appearance of hydrogen in the breath after an oral load of 25 grams of fructose. Individuals with fructose malabsorption have no problems with table sugar (sucrose) but foods with excess fructose can trigger IBS symptoms. However, the amount of excess fructose required to produce symptoms can range from very little to up to 25 grams. I am PI-IBS-D with fructose malabsorber and I cannot handle foods with more than 1 or 2 grams of excess fructose.

    Fructose belongs to a broader class of poorly absorbed, short-chain carbohydrates or FODMAPs (Fermentable Oligo-, Di- and Mono-saccharides And Polyols) which includes such things as sorbitol, HFCS, raffinose, FOS, inulin, lactose and fructans. Many FODMAPs are identified as IBS triggers in the EFI.

    The likely regions of the gut that generate most symptoms from FODMAPs are the distal small intestine and proximal colon. The volume of liquid in this region is dependent upon the osmotic load in that segment of bowel. Osmolality is kept within strict limits. Thus, small molecules in the diet that are poorly absorbed are candidates for changing the osmolality. Intraluminal gas is largely produced by fermentation of carbohydrates by bacteria. Their rapid production from FODMAP fermentation may cause increased luminal pressure and distension potentially triggering IBS symptoms. Also, fermentation of FODMAPs may produce methane gas in individuals whose colonic flora contain methogens. An increased concentration of methane gas in the colon is known to increase constipation.

    Fructans which are long chains of fructose molecules sometimes trigger IBS symptoms although they are not as likely to as much as free fructose. Fructans are found in high concentrations in wheat. They are also found in foods like onions, leeks, garlic, shallots and asparagus. Most fructose malabsorbers can handle about 0.5 grams/serving of fructans or the equivalent to about one thin slice of bread. Many IBSers who are not celiac positive but feel they have gluten intolerance because wheat gives them problems may in fact be experiencing fructan malabsorption problems which may trigger IBS symptoms.

    In summary, this latest research suggested that a FODMAP restricted version of the EFI diet may help up to 50% of IBSers of all subtypes. A personal dietary management strategy might initially included removal of foods like apples, applesauce, pears, honey, melons, grapes, etc and reduced consumption of wheat products. Later small amounts of these foods can be introduced until the individual finds the amounts of these foods they can handle or finds they have no problems with them at all.

    My apologies for the long explanation. The notions are a bit complicated but worthwhile knowing if one wishes to design an optimum personal IBS dietary management strategy.

    I hope this makes my comments a bit clearer as to why fructose malabsorption can be a problem for all IBS subtypes and why Prof. Whorwell's team might have prescribe the dietary regime Julieb is on

    --------------------
    STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

    The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
    Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
    FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
    The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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    Re: Response - Part 2 new
          #352559 - 11/21/09 07:04 AM
    Gerikat

    Reged: 06/21/09
    Posts: 1285


    OMG

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    Re: Response - Part 2 new
          #352566 - 11/21/09 10:07 AM
    julieb123

    Reged: 07/19/07
    Posts: 728
    Loc: uk liverpool

    can you bye a test to find out if you do have fructose intolerance i no professor whorwell has me on low fructose but he hasn't mentioned a test am so so to day BM not so good but tummy OK saying on goats milk for a bit longer i think

    --------------------
    ibs c with trapped gas


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    Re: Response - Part 2 new
          #352568 - 11/21/09 10:19 AM
    julieb123

    Reged: 07/19/07
    Posts: 728
    Loc: uk liverpool

    i found this i thought squash was safe i have been eating it omg i liked it so cos safe on ibs eating found this to

    www.healthhype.com/nutrition-guide-for-fructose-malabsorption.html

    --------------------
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    Re: Response - Part 2 new
          #352569 - 11/21/09 10:44 AM
    Syl

    Reged: 03/13/05
    Posts: 5499
    Loc: SK, CANADA

    There is a breath test but sometimes doctors don't use the test instead they simply eliminate high fructose foods from the diet and see there is an improvement. I have not had a test but dietary restriction of fructose dramatically improved my IBS symptoms.

    Have a nice weekend.

    --------------------
    STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

    The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
    Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
    FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
    The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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    Re: Response - Part 2 new
          #352570 - 11/21/09 10:51 AM
    Syl

    Reged: 03/13/05
    Posts: 5499
    Loc: SK, CANADA

    I have troubles with squash. I can only eat very small amounts of squash at a time.

    --------------------
    STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

    The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
    Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
    FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
    The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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