All Boards >> Eating for IBS Diet Board

Posts     Flat       Threaded

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)
Nonsense versus Horse Sense...
      #352141 - 11/14/09 01:37 PM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

There are some on the message board who have significant time on their hands. Usually, I don't have time for internet things and responses to this board as much as I might like to. Yet with the drastic changes in California weather-wise I have spent some time at this website reading.

Syl,

With all due respect here, let's not get into "Analysis Paralysis" as opposed to basics for IBS control one day at a time.

Most of us know that doctors are of no practical help. Having knowledge about studies do not solve any problems. These sometimes make for interesting reading and an ash of temporal understanding, yet such does NOT solve the personal path of this physical condition and including reasonable control of it.

We are all here to find recipes, learn basics, while enuraging others (support) in their own personal recovery. There is no need to dwell on temporal scientific studies that prove nothing.

Are you aware that this is what pharmaceutical companies dwell on with their clinical trials and subsequent drug releases and sales?... that being to support their pharametical company for millions and billions of dollars of every year? Yep, they would like to drug people legally, rather than teach them to eat properly. Figures!

Please know that I am not attacking you personally, though disagree on some of your responses.

In reality, some of these posts were sufferers asking a simple question or sharing of their frustrations around IBS.

When asked for the time on another's wristwatch, do they REALLY need a lecture on HOW the watch was made? We just want to function physically as best we can. Everybody is different and have no desire to go to back to college to become a medical practioner.

My philposopy around all of this is to pay attention to what you eat and with whom we spend any significant time around.

Healthy relationships can be some of the greatest stress relievers, and likewise some people can to prove to be our major stress inducers.

Be aware that phamaceutical companies have a priority of selling their medications (drugs). They know asolutely nothing about cause and effect. Prescription drugs often cause more problems than they (the drug) actually helps.

Most people today want that "quick fix" in pill form, and ones easy to swallow of course... making pharma companies multi-billion dollar companies.

In my experience, what sufferers need is sound suggests on diet and stress reduction, not more stress from analyzing everthing.

In the end (again, in my personal experience), one does not feel better by temporal technical information about this condition, as opposed to practical information and encouragement for each of us who presently are suffering and seeking answers to our personal questions in and around food issues, and personal symptom control. These things do not happen overnight, and they have been with some of us for many decades.





--------------------
Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Nonsense versus Horse Sense... new
      #352142 - 11/14/09 01:51 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Interesting point of view.

I too believe in focusing on the basics, one day at a time, ignoring the reasons for the cause of IBS and using simple tool to manage the symptoms.

Like you I am not an advocate of pharmaceuticals. However, I am an advocate of science not pseudo-science.

Wise dietary control, stress and anxiety reduction, exercise and common sense not nonsense are at the core of my IBS management practices. Heather has been an inspiration in this practice.

It is a pleasure to have articulate and wise thinkers like yourself on this board.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Nonsense versus Horse Sense... new
      #352145 - 11/14/09 02:20 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


lol - some of your points are funny. How the watch is made? OMG funny!

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Nonsense versus Horse Sense... new
      #352151 - 11/14/09 04:31 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

I can appreciate your sentiments. I come at IBS from a directly opposite point of view from Syl. Yet, he has proven very helpful to the board and he is very considerate and non-argumentative like many of the brainy male posters can be on other forums!
So it is great to have various stances on IBS and of course lots of personal experience and suggestions on this board. We have overcome a lot of differences here and all grown. Some people have more of a left-side brain and others a right-side brain if you know what I mean. I feel both the technical and the everyday advice is worthwhile to posters here.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Nonsense versus Horse Sense... new
      #352173 - 11/15/09 01:27 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

all 19 million IBS studies in PUBmed are not all about pharmacy mangement of IBS.

I to would rather see IBSers get better without drugs, but that is not based in reality. I am not a big supporter of drugs either, they have a place however and without research on them how would one know what to take or do?

What are the statistics of people learning about there condition IBS and the impact education has on IBSers and their symptoms?

The leading cause of misdiagnoses is self diagnoses, IBS is complex, that is a reality as well and many people misdiagnose themselves that actually have IBS, which also drives up healthcare and anxiety as they look everywhere for a "cure."

A good doctor pateint relationship has shown to be extremely benefical in IBS.

"Most of us know that doctors are of no practical help"

Depends on your doctor, some of mine have been tremedously helpful.

"Having knowledge about studies do not solve any problems"

yes it actually does.

The science behind IBS has been making huge progress and there is practical information to be learned from it, from diagnoses to treatments.

as for the watch analogy, it is very important to understand some digestion basics in order to understand IBS. Since IBS involves abnormal functioning of the digestive tract, it can help to understand why that is and what can be done about it, from foods to stress to hormones to medications ect..

Say for example a womens hormones trigger IBS, explaining the process can be helpful.



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Windchimes new
      #352174 - 11/15/09 01:35 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


You make some very good points, many that I agree with.

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Re: Nonsense versus Horse Sense... new
      #352175 - 11/15/09 01:45 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

do you think its important for IBSers to know about the Brain gut axis and that they have a typoe of brain in the gut? A lot don't but it is very important in IBS.

this is positive or negative?

What Patients Know About Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) and What They Would Like to Know

National Survey on Patient Educational Needs in IBS and Development and Validation of the Patient Educational
Posted 09/18/2007

Albena Halpert, M.D.; Christine B. Dalton, PA-C; Olafur Palsson, Psy.D.; Carolyn Morris, Ph.D.; Yuming Hu, Ph.D.; Shrikant Bangdiwala, Ph.D.; Jane Hankins; Nancy Norton; Douglas Drossman, M.D.

Abstract and Introduction
Abstract
Patient education improves clinical outcomes in patients with chronic illness, but little is known about the education needs of patients with IBS.
Objectives: The objective of this study was to identify: (1) patients perceptions about IBS; (2) the content areas where patients feel insufficiently informed, i.e., "knowledge gaps" about diagnosis, treatment options, etiology, triggers, prognosis, and role of stress; and (3) whether there are differences related to items 1 and 2 among clinically significant subgroups.
Methods: The IBS-Patient Education Questionnaire (IBS-PEQ) was developed using patient focus groups and cognitive item reduction of items. The IBS-PEQ was administered to a national sample of IBS patients via mail and online.
Analysis: Frequencies of item endorsements were obtained. Clinically relevant groups, (a) health care seekers or nonhealth care seekers and ((IMG:http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) users or nonusers of the Web, were identified and grouped as MD/Web, MD/non-Web, and non-MD/Web.
Results: 1,242 patients completed the survey (371 via mail and 871 online), mean age was 39.3 ± 12.5 yr, educational attainment 15 ± 2.6 yr, 85% female, IBS duration 6.9 ± 4.2 yr, 79% have seen an MD for IBS in the last 6 months, and 92.6% have used the Web for health information. The most prevalent IBS misconceptions included (% of subjects agreeing with the statement): IBS is caused by lack of digestive enzymes (52%), is a form of colitis (42.8%), will worsen with age (47.9%), and can develop into colitis (43%) or malnutrition (37.7%) or cancer (21.4%). IBS patients were interested in learning about (% of subjects choosing an item): (1) foods to avoid (63.3%), (2) causes of IBS (62%), (3) coping strategies (59.4%), (4) medications (55.2%), (5) will they have to live with IBS for life (51.6%), and (6) research studies (48.6%). Patients using the Web were better informed about IBS.
Conclusion: (1) Many patients hold misconceptions about IBS being caused by dietary habits, developing into cancer, colitis, causing malnutrition, or worsening with age; (2) patients most often seek information about dietary changes; and (3) educational needs may be different for persons using the internet for medical information.

Introduction
Because of the impact of chronic conditions on health status and health care expenditures, managing chronic illness is one of the major challenges of modern medicine. Consequently, there is growing interest in effective educational programs, to provide patients with the necessary knowledge, skills, and confidence (self-efficacy) to manage their disease-related problems.

The goal of patient education is to facilitate changes in patient behavior for the purpose of disease management or prevention. While different health education theories focus on many different aspects of this complicated process, most agree that facilitating change of behavior requires incorporating the patients' current knowledge, prior disease experiences, attitudes, goals, motivations, and cultural perceptions. The existing literature describes educational interventions based on a variety of health education models (e.g., health belief model, the theory of planned behavior, or theory of self-efficacy) in search of effective educational models for the management of diabetes, hypertension, arthritis, and cancer. However, relatively little is known about what constitutes an effective patient education model in irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) and other functional bowel disorders. The emerging research typifies IBS as a brain-gut disorder where psychosocial factors (e.g., stress, cognitions, coping, etc.) can alter the symptoms and illness experience for better or worse. Due to these and other disease specific characteristics, that are amenable to education, we believe effective educational interventions may significantly impact the management of this common disorder. Prior to designing, studying, and implementing theory based educational strategies for IBS, we need to better understand patients' disease experience, knowledge, misconceptions, motivations, and perceptions. Few studies to date have evaluated IBS "through the patients' eyes" and none have systematically examined patients' prior knowledge about IBS.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Current Knowledge and Misconceptions About IBS
The majority of participants were able to correctly identify the symptoms and triggers of IBS. Stress at work and psychological factors were identified as triggers by more than 70% of subjects. Of note is that a significant number of patients held misconceptions, including that IBS can develop into: colitis (43% agree, 29.7% not sure), malnutrition (37.7% agree, 33% not sure), a problem needing surgery (34.3% agree, 33% not sure), and cancer (21.4% agree and 36.3% not sure). In addition, a significant number of responders thought that IBS results from lack of digestive enzymes (52.1% agree and 28.2% not sure) and would worsen with age (47.9% agreed and 30.4% not sure). The majority of the participants were optimistic that new treatments will be soon available for IBS (62.6% agreed, 27.8% not sure). See Table 3 , Table 4 , Table 5 and Table 6 for correct conceptions and misconceptions (the latter shown in italics) about IBS. Regarding knowledge about lifestyle modifications as a treatment for IBS, subjects endorsed mainly eating small meals, a high fiber, low fat diet, and avoiding milk products. Nondietary lifestyle modifications such as exercise were not frequently endorsed ( Table 7 ). The majority of our subjects were familiar with first-line treatments for IBS such as antispasmodics, antidiarrheals, and fiber agents. A total of 35% endorsed antidepressants, 16% tegaserod, and 5% alosetron ( Table 8 ). When asked if psychological treatments (cognitive behavior therapy, relaxation techniques, etc.) are potential treatments for IBS, 29.1% of participants disagreed, 41.7% agreed, and 21.4% were neutral/not sure.

Educational Needs Regarding IBS
Subjects were primarily interested in learning about what foods to avoid, causes of IBS, and coping strategies. In addition, more than 50% of responders wondered if IBS will shorten their lives, how psychological factors affect IBS, and what medications they can use to prevent an IBS "attack." Of note is that close to half of the participants wanted to know about what is a normal bowel habit, whether IBS will get worse and about available IBS research. See Table 9 and Table 10 for more detailed results on patient educational needs.

IBS Educational Needs Regarding IBS in Subgroups
Patients who used the Web, regardless of clinic status, seemed better informed about IBS and held fewer misconceptions (e.g., had less need to know what IBS is, or whether it will shorten their lives), and more interested in learning about the causes of IBS, foods to avoid, and coping strategies ( Table 13 ). Finally, based on our findings we created a summary of an IBS patient profile regarding IBS knowledge and educational needs ( Table 14 ).

===================

Discussion
Educating patients about their illnesses improves adherence to treatment, quality of life, and satisfaction with care.

___________________________________

Our survey identified what IBS patients in the United States know about their condition and what their educational needs are in regard to IBS. There are several key findings, which have implications for the way in which clinicians needs to offer education.

Patients' Misconceptions About Implications of IBS: Patients hold misconceptions about IBS developing into cancer, colitis, causing malnutrition, or shortening the life expectancy. Such misconceptions can produce great concern, anxiety, and reluctances to accept reassurance, particularly if the physician is not aware of them. This only reinforces a vicious cycle of health worry and urgent requests for diagnosis, along with increased physician visits and demands for more testing.[14] Thus it is important for educational materials to explicitly identify and address these misconceptions. In addition, clinicians need to proactively inquire about the patient's beliefs and concerns (e.g., "What do you think is causing your symptoms?" and "What are your concerns about them?"). Eliciting these thoughts and feelings will have a palliative effect on health anxiety and will lead to a more therapeutic response when the reassurance occurs within the context of the patient's expressed concerns.


Patients Seek Information Primarily About Food and Diet: Our data highlight the strong attribution patients make about the role of diet in IBS. Patients most often seek information about dietary changes and the role of food in contributing to IBS (reflected in concerns about "what foods to avoid?"). Yet because of the limited evidence for dietary factors being causative in IBS, physicians often are unable or unwilling to offer specific advice on diet. Nevertheless, our data support the importance of addressing this topic, and to educate against idiosyncratic food practices that may occur. For patients who focus excessively on unnecessary food elimination in seeking relief from IBS symptoms, it may be helpful to explain gut physiology and introduce the possibility that the ingestion of food in general, rather than specific foods, may be triggering the symptoms. Importantly, overly restrictive diets need to be replaced by recommendations for a well-balanced diet.


Patients Associate IBS with Triggers and Distress: Notably 70% of the study subjects agreed that there is a connection between their symptoms and psychological distress. However, this report contrasts with our clinical experience, since patients less frequently volunteer this association in the clinical setting, possibly out of fear of stigmatization, or the perception that this is "all in my head." Thus it is important for the clinician to be open to this option but to inquire in a matter of fact manner: "Are there any other factors that can worsen your symptoms, like diet, physical activity, or stress?" In addition to obtaining potentially meaningful clinical data that will help treatment, this approach conveys a high level of acceptance of this association as a matter of course rather than it being a "psychiatric" problem. The high level of acceptance of stress as an operative factor in IBS may relate to the population that is being drawn from the community rather than referral settings. With the latter group, the high psychosocial morbidity is associated with denial of a role for stress.[15, 16]


Patients Consider IBS a Diagnosis of Exclusion: Over 50% of the patients considered IBS to be a "catch all" diagnosis and another 22% were unsure. While this could reflect the information provided by their physicians (thus highlighting the need to also educate physicians about IBS), this misconception may motivate patients to seek more and more diagnostic studies to find "the cause." The use of the Rome criteria[17] permits the patient to have a positive diagnosis. With confidence in knowing that IBS is a specific entity, such behaviors are minimized. Thus it is important for the physician to provide proper education about the level of confidence in the diagnosis.


Web Users are More Informed About IBS: We found that IBS patients who use the Web have better knowledge about IBS in general, fewer IBS misconceptions, and are more aware of psychosocial disturbances being associated with flares. They also seem more "up to date" with commonly used medications and more interested in learning coping strategies. The implication of this finding is that the nature and content of educational interventions will differ for Web and non-Web users with IBS. Prior data suggest that more than 50% of Americans use the Web and about 52% have used the Web for obtaining medical information.[18] Similarly, the majority of our participants have used the Web for obtaining medical information (92.6%), suggesting that future Web-designed educational interventions will probably be well accepted. For the clinician, it suggests that the type of education provided (e.g., Web sites vs brochures) and its content (i.e., the educational level of the information) must be individualized to the learning style of the patient.


Our study has several limitations. First, enrollment bias exists, since subjects interested in participating in the study may have had a higher level of education and greater motivation to learn than other patients, and they may also be more symptomatic at the time of enrollment, than the average IBS patient. However, the results would certainly apply to any patient seeking or willing to receive educational information. The findings for this study group are clinically relevant since they result from a symptomatic IBS population likely to utilize health care. A subgroup of non-consulters may have different educational needs. We also think it is important that future efforts be directed toward studies that may increase interest in learning. Another limitation relates to the relevance of the information collected from subjects not recruited from internal medicine or GI clinics (e.g., online subjects). Some respondents may have entered the study without having IBS merely to obtain the compensation offered. We implemented several measures to minimize this possibility. The study was advertised only on IBS-related Web sites, subjects had to meet Rome II criteria for IBS, had to be invited to participate, and those who qualified by the screening questions did not receive the main questionnaire immediately. Instead, they were e-mailed an entry password 24-72 hr later. This made multiple attempts to qualify for participation by the same individuals unlikely. Furthermore, participants had to provide a mailing address to receive the payment, which avoided the possibility for multiple entries coming from the same person. Finally, we acknowledge that the nature of this instrument, to assess individual knowledge and informational needs, is not amenable to standard methods to assess criterion or construct validity. There is no "gold standard," and relative to other patient report instruments, such as a health related quality of life instrument, one cannot do convergent or discriminate validity with known groups because there are no other psychometric measures to correlate with the instrument. Furthermore, there are no known groups to identify since all responses are specific to the individual. However, as noted in the methods, the use of three focus groups with a broad clinical representation to generate items, and then the use of cognitive debriefing with the investigators and a sample of 50 patients, permitted the selection of the most representative sample of items that were then applied in the quantitative analysis.

-----------------------------------------

Conclusion
Our study is the first to define the conceptions, misconceptions, and educational needs of a large national sample of IBS patients. We found that many patients hold misconceptions about the condition, some of which may negatively impact patients' emotional well-being and increase their health care needs. According to our data, patients are mostly interested in dietary modifications, and learning about coping strategies and what causes IBS. Patients who use the Web have fewer misconceptions about the disease and may differ in their educational needs from non-Web users. The results of the study can be used in both daily clinical practice and as a basis for developing a variety of patient-centered IBS educational interventions.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/562448

I hear this quote frequently, "I know my body better then the doctors do'?

Unlesss you went to med school you don't, you know your symptoms, he know how the body works better and try's to match your symptoms with organic diseases or in the case of IBS functional conditions. That is not to say there are not bad doctors, but there are good and bad ones. Sometimes people's beliefs get in the way of their own diagnoses and treatments as well, because they may not understand things the doctors do about it all. Not likely they will spend a ton of time explaining these complex issues with you.

I see though we all agree on food and stress reduction issues and even those in IBS are majorally complex.

What about the research say on clinical gut directed hypnotherapy. Its not run by Pharm companies? It has helped thousands and more, naturally and safely.

Food research and IBS is not all about parm compaines either. Research is extremely important in medicine as opposed to guessing. Is also important in IBS education and practical help. If say serotonin is a problem in IBS which they believe it really is, then people need to know about serotonin and IBS, there is no super easy way to explain that issue.

Video Corner: Serotonin

Increasingly our understanding of IBS is that it is a heterogeneous disorder – that is, multiple factors contribute to the well defined symptoms of the disorder. One of these suspected underlying dysfunctions involves serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter or messenger to nerves. Most serotonin in the body is in cells that line the gut where it senses what is going on and through receptors signals nerves that stimulate a response. The serotonin must then be reabsorbed (a process called re-uptake) into cells. This process appears to be disrupted in people with IBS.

http://www.aboutibs.org/site/learning-center/video-corner/serotonin

another thing to note is when people understand things they work better for them from drugs to othrs treatments.

You might find this interesting.

Experts: Placebo effect behind many 'natural' cures

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-11-13-placebo-alternative_N.htm?csp=34

The mind is very powerful on the body and very important in IBS since it is physically connected via the vagus nerve and talks and importantly monitors what is happening at the digestive system all the time.





--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Windchimes new
      #352176 - 11/15/09 01:49 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


By the way, don't hold back on telling us how you feel. lol That is also a funny heading,"Nonesense vs. Horsesense.



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

The watch comment... new
      #352178 - 11/16/09 01:37 AM
Windchimes

Reged: 09/05/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Northern California

It is good for all of us to maintain our sense of humor, thus the watch comment. Laughter reduces stress!

For example, if I asked someone what type of baking flour they used in a recipe, I'm not seeking a lecture on the components of different types of flours on the market and how they are milled, and why the person chose a particular one for the recipe, before I get the answer to a simple question.



--------------------
Senior female, IBS-D, presently stable thanks to Heather & Staff

Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

post for Windhcimes new
      #352180 - 11/16/09 06:28 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


I love it Windchimes. Don't stop being honest and sharing how you feel. You are a member of this board too, and I agree with much of what you said. Especially on the diet board you are bombarded with studies/clinical trials/articles/research/science, and blah, blah, blah. It bogs you down.

I have had better luck with holistic/alternative care, good ole common sense, and trial and error experimentation on myself. After all, I am the patient and I DO know my body better than any doctor out there.



Print     Remind Me     Notify Moderator    

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)

Extra information
0 registered and 501 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Heather 

Print Thread

Permissions
      You cannot post until you login
      You cannot reply until you login
      HTML is enabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Thread views: 65728

Jump to

| Privacy statement Help for IBS Home

*
UBB.threads™ 6.2


HelpForIBS.com BBB Business Review