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Has Anybody Else Felt FAT and WEAK Muscles When Bloated?
      #349137 - 08/17/09 05:09 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


I've tried to describe the "sensation" that I feel in my body but it has been tough to articulate it.
I'm hoping others on here who suffer from IBS can relate and help explain what is going on in my body so I can better describe it to my doctor and have better insight to treat the symptoms.

What first got me years ago to begin seeing a GI doctor was that despite the fact that I would go to the gym and my weight for my height and size should have made me out to be thin….I felt very fat in my stomach, or "bloated."
Not only that, but it seemed that when I was having days/periods of time were my stomach was bloated, the rest of my body looked and felt distorted/weak.
When my stomach is bloated, my arms, my chest, all of my muscles look a lot smaller, they feel weaker, and flimsier.
The few times that my stomach is not bloated, my muscles have felt contrastly different.
When stomach has been flat, my chest, my arms all have felt all more "solid" and firm, they have been much better defined.

It is like I have two different bodies.
One is where I look fat in my stomach (like I am overweight and pregnant) while the rest of my body looks flimsy and weak (as if I have never lifted a weight).
Then the other body looks like the real me, a thin stomach and defined muscles.
So when I am experiencing IBS bloating…I'm getting a double whammy.
My body, which I work so hard on, no matter how much I run, no matter how little I weigh, and no matter how much I lift, looks fat and weak when bloated.

It pretty much feels like when I am having a bloating episode, that all of the "fluids/muscles/nutrients" in my body have been "drained" like water on the floodplain into my stomach.

Now I have noticed when I am having more regular bowel movements, this is less of problem.
The reverse is true without regular bowel movements.
Also…say I go to the gym…and I have a really intense, great workout.
I can feel a real strong "pump" in my body that can at the same time give my muscles a "pump" and flatten/reduce the bloating.

This is the sensation I have been having for several years.
This is the whole reason I inquired and found out I had IBS.
I've tried to explain it before and people have looked at it as I am some dysmorphic psycho…but I know and feel this going on in my body.

I wanted to know
1) Have any of you experienced this? Is this common with IBS?
2) Do you have any better ways of explaining or terminology of what I am experiencing?
3) Are there any specific treatments that are more effective in targeting these symptoms I have described?
-For my IBS symptoms I have employed
Quote:


A. Diet
-5 meals a day
-Spinach once
-Oat bran/applesauce
-No dairy/red meat/pork/fat/alcohol
-Soluble fiber
B. Exercise
-Lift weights 2-3 times a week
-Warm up running
C. Supplements
-Benefiber
-Acidophilus




If there are ANY other supplements/treatments that best target the bloating/muscle fat/weak inverse relationship sensation I have PLEASE let me know.

Thanks!


--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Has Anybody Else Felt FAT and WEAK Muscles When Bloated? new
      #349138 - 08/17/09 06:45 PM
Allisonmary

Reged: 01/03/04
Posts: 533


Take a look at these two cites, its the Chinese view on why this would make complete sense. I guess you can describe this because when you are bloated, things are not moving and flowing in the body. Liquids, bowels, energy, and blood are stuck in the center and not flowing to the muscles and limbs, making them feel weak. The Spleen is in charge of digestion in chinese medicine and if it is deficient two of the symptoms are bloating and weak limbs. Read these websites its pretty interesting, hope this helps!
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:LWWFDV8jnAoJ:www.mybodywisdom.net/pdf/Spleen_Qi_Nutrition.pdf+spleen+qi+deficiency+bloating+weak+limbs&hl=en&gl=us

http://www.balfourhealing.com/treatment-ibs.html


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Re: Has Anybody Else Felt FAT and WEAK Muscles When Bloated? new
      #349141 - 08/17/09 07:44 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

Sure feeling fat and out of shape is common with severe bloating. I have confirmed it is not just me that feels that even my butt and thighs swell when bloated. I don't know exactly about the weak muscles, other than that your body doesn't feel right and it can be ab spasms can cause a weak sensation all over -like after D. Today I was so bloated my rib cage hurt like heartburn but all over.
Everyone experiences things differently and describes them differently. I have a lingo all my own with IBS that my husband understands, but when seeing a doctor terms like 'distension' 'spasms' etc work best.

The only things that work well for bloating are: staying stable/regular/taking acacia; drinking lots of fennel tea; eating often/slowly/standing while eating; exercising a lot or doing yoga and specific stretches; not wearing tight clothing/not napping/not holding in gas or stressing.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #349149 - 08/18/09 05:50 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

You are describing the symptoms of bloating and distention which are common symptoms of IBS. Muscle weakness is a perceived sensation but there is likely no actual loss of strength. Distention has actually been measured in IBSers. Over the past few years there has been a lot of research to figure out what causes these symptoms. Researchers still have little insight into the cause of bloating and distention but some research show that probiotics such as Align may relieve these symptoms in some IBSers. Here are links to some abstracts of research papers that talk about these symptoms in IBS.

Bloating and Distention in Irritable Bowel Syndrome: The Role of Visceral Sensation

Review article: abdominal bloating and distension in functional gastrointestinal disorders – epidemiology and exploration of possible mechanisms

The Relation of Passage of Gas and Abdominal Bloating to Colonic Gas Production

Bloating and Distension in Irritable Bowel Syndrome: The Role of Gastrointestinal Transit

Your GI doctor should understand the symptoms of bloating and distention but not likely have many suggestions about how to control these symptoms

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Has Anybody Else Felt FAT and WEAK Muscles When Bloated? new
      #349150 - 08/18/09 07:58 AM

Unregistered




never heard of standing while eating..maybe I should try this.

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Standing while eating new
      #349277 - 08/21/09 06:11 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

is the best way to avoid getting bloated I have found. I only do it occasionally but when I attend my conventions I stand in a park at a ledge and never get bloated. It makes a huge differnce.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Standing while eating new
      #350404 - 09/29/09 04:45 AM
Catgirl

Reged: 01/10/09
Posts: 44
Loc: Canada

I didn't know standing while eating can help bloat! I'll have to try that since my bloating is on the severe side.It will be hard but I'm so desperate for something to work since fennel and mint hardly helps my trapped gas.
Thanks!

On a side note someone mentioned Align and that is a dairy probiotic so it's useless. Bio K dairy free liquid probiotic is a good one to try.Itt tastes like mango candy.

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Re: Standing while eating new
      #350477 - 09/30/09 06:39 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

It is good to do when bloating will probably come on (when you have been sitting a lot e.g.) or when you really don't want to get bloated (special evening out). I can't just do it all the time or I'd never get to sit except on the pot.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Standing while eating new
      #350520 - 10/02/09 08:26 AM
moonwillow

Reged: 06/10/09
Posts: 8


Thats interesting because I've discovered that if I sit up very straight during and after eating I have a lot less gas. I'm taking a class that lasts until 10 pm and its not possible to stand (supper if provided for the class, but I bring my own food!) But if I concentrate on eating slowly, chewing completely, and sit up very straight, the gas isn't a problem-which is good since I'm around so many other people.

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354065 - 01/05/10 09:37 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING.
I go to the gym 4 times a week...3 of them to lift weights as I am trying to get a ripped, clean body.

It literally brings me to tears to see myself as I am vs. others who chug beer and pizza.
I know (when I am not bloated) what the real me looks like..and I am lean and cut.

But most of the time and especially now I am so bloated it robs me of all my tone and defintion.
Not only do I feel weaker (and actually lift less!) but when I feel bloated in my stomach

My muscles (chest/arms/legs/shoulders) ARE smaller and more flimsly. When I am less bloated...I feel like I have more beef on my muscles and they feel more firm.
It pretty much is a double whammy when bloated as
1) I am bloated
2) my muscles are smaller in size

I go from looking cut and toned to fat and weak, and it is SO frustrating I want to cry because it really feels like no matter what I do to look in shape, there is nothing I can do to escape.

1) So it is not just me...others of you have the SAME problem...that when bloated you feel like all the fluid/matter in body is sucked from your muscles to your gut...resulting in a fat gut and weakish looking/feeling muscles?


2) Why does it happen, that when bloated it feels like all the matter in my body has been sucked into the gut...but when not bloated it feels like all the matter has been distrbuted and I feel/look stronger and cut?
-Is there an explanation?


3) What, if anything, is the best remedy, because the EFI diet after years ain't doing it?
Does anything work really well that I have not tried?

-Tea?
-Yoga????
Anything to get the bloating down and release the matter from my gut elsewhere?

Quote:

probiotics such as Align may relieve these symptoms in some IBSers.



If I didn't know better, I would say Align is to blame....because after just 1.5 weeks of it, and being off it for a week, I still feel as horrible as I ever have (before I found this site...that bad).

--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354080 - 01/06/10 07:05 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Naturopanic, I had to stop Align!

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ALIGN new
      #354081 - 01/06/10 07:23 AM
Aly

Reged: 08/16/04
Posts: 669
Loc: Columbus, Ohio

Hi there! I just wanted to jump into the convo about align. I've been on it for about 4 months now. The first month was pretty rough. I took align well over a year ago and remembered it took a LONG time to work, so I kept with it. 4 months ago I was miserable. Worst C of my life...diagnosed with gastroparesis also. In and out of the hospital even... so I know how you feel. It's HORRIBLE. The align has helped me SO much. I'm really glad I stuck with it...but yea, 1.5 weeks of align could have made you feel worse. It takes time and patience (neither of which are easy!!)
The other thing that is helping me is benefiber. I used to do acacia but it didn't really work for me. I still am trying to get my benefiber higher, but I'm getting there. Also, my doc told me to take 2 colace every night, and I feel SO much better. No hospital visits, no vomiting from the pain attacks, etc...
Just thought I'd throw in some thoughts...

--------------------
IBS-A

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354083 - 01/06/10 07:45 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Hi Aly, It is so good to hear you are doing well. I know you had a real tough patch back over the summer. I wonder about Align. It seems to be great for some, but not for others. I gave it about a 6 month trial period, and there was not any difference in the IBSa. Do you think that was a long enough time? It is so expensive and I felt if I wasn't getting anything out of it, why waste the money. I went back to Digestive Advantage which does control the bloat very well, even when I am C, as I am now.

I tried Acacia too, but it did not work for me. I then went to other SFS, but none seem to do much for me. I have not tried Benefiber, but have read good things about it. I might give Benefiber a try.

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354090 - 01/06/10 09:50 AM
Aly

Reged: 08/16/04
Posts: 669
Loc: Columbus, Ohio

hi! yes, I'm doing much better. I'm still not great, but if this is as good as I can get--I'll take it!
6 months of align certainly seems like enough...its so different for each person. I suspect align is what's helping, but it easily could just be the combo of everything... so I don't know. But I'm certainly too scared to stop the align and find out. I buy mine at Sams Club and it's a bit cheaper. Still a lot of money, so if it didn't help after 6 months, I don't blame you for stopping!
I do think Benefiber is really helping. I never tried it before and it seems gentle enough to not cause lots of cramping...so I like it. Again, we're all so different!
Hope you're doing well!

--------------------
IBS-A

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354091 - 01/06/10 09:56 AM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Thanks Aly. I am doing pretty good. I am in an extreme cycle of C right now, and when I say extreme, I mean extreme. I think I may give the Benefiber a try. I don't experience stomach cramps, so that wouldn't be an issue for me. Thanks for your help and take care. I am glad you are doing better!

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354119 - 01/06/10 01:16 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Aly, I just picked up the Benefiber at the store. Did you increase gradually? It doesn't say that on the container. It just states 2 tsp three times a day. Just jump right into it?

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354134 - 01/06/10 03:32 PM
Aly

Reged: 08/16/04
Posts: 669
Loc: Columbus, Ohio

Here's what I did with benefiber-- I started with one tablespoon at night. I don't want to start something on here, but that's what worked for me. I know they say to work up slowly, but with such terrible C going slowly did nothing for me! So, I now take a teaspoon in the morning and a tablespoon at night. I go at least every other day..usually every day! Which is a HECK of a lot better than not going for 5-6 days at a time!

--------------------
IBS-A

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Re: ALIGN new
      #354135 - 01/06/10 03:48 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Well, it doesn't say on the container, how quickly to move with the process. A tbsp is 3 tsp and you take a tsp in the AM, so you are at 4 tsp a day. It says to not go over 6 tsp per day, so you are about right. How long did it take you to start seeing improvement? I am like at 10 days now, hit or miss, and pretty miserable. Bran Buds usually works for me, but I haven't picked them up yet. Thanks for your help Aly!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354140 - 01/06/10 07:20 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

GD My kitten just erased my post!!!!!!!! It was not short! and I hate rewriting these things!!!

The gist of it is bloating can't change arm strength. The weakness is a body response after discomfort or spasms. Being bloated is bad but not as bad as so many other things. Drink fennel tea, try with cardamom pods crushed in), stand when eating, and don't sit after lunch.
Get used to the fact that nothing may make a material difference but that you could have it much worse.
That is my summary of my well-written would have been post.



--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354285 - 01/08/10 02:45 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


Quote:

Naturopanic, I had to stop Align!



Why?
I do not have the patience to go Six week!



--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354286 - 01/08/10 02:50 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


LM: Thanks!


I am not suggesting that my arm/muscle strength is weaker, but what I am suggesting is that when bloated 1) the stomach is inflated/larger and 2) the muscle SIZE is smaller and feels more flabby.

Summary: When bloated the stomach is fat and the muscles look smaller and feel flabby.
When not bloated, the stomach is thinner and the muscles look bigger and more filled out+feel more solid.

1) Do you or anybody here, experience this?
2) Do you have an explanation for why this occurs?

Something else I notice.
Suppose I go to the gym to workout.
1 of 2 things happen.
I have a good workout, a feel a "pump" in my muscles.
I look and feel stronger.
OR I have a crappy workout, I get no "pump" and my muscles actually look smaller, flabby, weaker and my stomach feels more bloated.
Again....have any of you experienced it were working out actually makes you LOOK and feel WORSE than before?
It feels like, if I don't get a good workout with a pump I end up feeling worse off, with smaller muscles, and a more bloated gut.

3) Have you had this happen?
4) Any explanation?
-Possible that a medicore workout brings in more gas?

--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354301 - 01/08/10 03:57 PM
Gerikat

Reged: 06/21/09
Posts: 1285


Because I did not see an improvement, and it was too expensive to keep throwing away my money.

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354306 - 01/08/10 04:40 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

Part of our issues with bloating are in perception. I think you perceive or feel your arms seem smaller because your belly seems bigger. I don't think it is possible to have smaller biceps because of bloating. And when you lift weights you are breaking the muscle down each time and it grows bigger and stronger after it recovers (why you can't do weights two days in a row). You probably know that. But it wouldn't really be possible for the muscle to seem smaller after some workouts. It might not bulge as high if it is tired or if you are tired. I have noticed when I am worn out after a lot of work I can't make my biceps bulge as high to look at them.
I think understanding your own perception is involved will make you more accepting of not looking the way you want 100% of the time.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354314 - 01/08/10 05:48 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

My Bloating and distension issues have virtually gone completely away after doing Mike's tapes years ago now.

HT has been shown in research to help these symptoms and is safe.



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354324 - 01/09/10 07:36 AM

Unregistered




I got really bloated at work and felt like my body was pulling and straining. I felt I needed to sit down so bad,but just had to suffer through my work shift.all the huge "balls" of gas and all the crazy gas poping all over so so uncomfortable and I felt a little naseated then a little later nasty acid came into my mouth.

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354349 - 01/09/10 04:01 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


Quote:

Part of our issues with bloating are in perception. I think you perceive or feel your arms seem smaller because your belly seems bigger. I don't think it is possible to have smaller biceps because of bloating. And when you lift weights you are breaking the muscle down each time and it grows bigger and stronger after it recovers (why you can't do weights two days in a row). You probably know that. But it wouldn't really be possible for the muscle to seem smaller after some workouts. It might not bulge as high if it is tired or if you are tired. I have noticed when I am worn out after a lot of work I can't make my biceps bulge as high to look at them.
I think understanding your own perception is involved will make you more accepting of not looking the way you want 100% of the time.




As hard as this is for you to believe, I am telling you, I swear, that when my stomach is bloated my biceps/shoulders are NOTICABLY smaller and feel weaker.

It is like all of the strength, all of the muscle, has been drained into my gut.
When I feel not bloated, it feels like all of the "stuff" in my gut has been distrubuted to my body and I look cut and strong.

There is a definite inverse relationship...it is not in my head.
My shoulders and posture are more compressed when bloated.
When not bloated they are more broad.
I see and feel this...I know it is not in my head.

None of you have this/none of you can explain it?

--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354360 - 01/09/10 07:45 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

All right. Then it must be what I was saying before that when you feel blucky and don't have as much energy you won't get the ability to press the muscles as big. Muscle size unbulged could not alter one hour to the next. But you can't press/bulge them so big when drained and tired. It isn't a bloating issue I am sure. It would be something a weight trainer would be better for.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354362 - 01/09/10 07:52 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


So when I feel bloated....I feel:
=HUGE stomach but small/scrawny muscles in body


Is that bloating or distenstion?

I know how it goes.
Bloated=big stomach+smaller (in size/appearance) muscles (no cut/definition)
-I look scrawny but with a huge gut

1) You had this?
2) Any explanations?
-Is this bloating or distenstion?
I am not sure.

The bloating/distenstion wouldn't be sooo bad if at least my muscles and muscle tone/defintion were unafffected.
Not bloated=cut stomach+toned/defined muscles

--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354420 - 01/11/10 04:32 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

I guess it would be the distention that would make it seem that way. Do you feel less muscular when you have a cold? I think any time you feel weak there would be, not less muscle mass, but an inability to flex as big.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354426 - 01/11/10 05:09 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

as mentioned before, distension and bloating are different symptoms in IBS.

Part of the bloating issues in IBS are altered gas transit and altered sensory nerves even when there are normal gas volumes.

"Bloating
associated with FGIDs relates to abnormalities in the abdominal wall and gastrointestinal (GI) tract motility and
abnormal perception of gut sensations (visceral hypersensitivity) rather than structural causes."

http://www.med.unc.edu/medicine/fgidc/abdominalbloating.pdf

Bloating and Distension in Functional GI Disorders
Published Online: July 1, 2005 - 12:00:00 AM (CDT)
Although the terms bloating and distension often are used synonymously, evidence now suggests that these are distinct conditions that may overlap but do not necessarily coexist, as discussed in a recently published review by Lesley Houghton, MD, and colleagues in Neurogastroenterology and Motility. The authors provide support for defining abdominal bloating as a subjective sensation and distension as a physical parameter that refers to an actual increase in abdominal girth. They note that bloating accompanied by visible distension is more common in patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) than in healthy participants. The underlying cause of these symptoms remains unclear.

Novel studies suggest that IBS patients may process gas abnormally, even in the absence of excessive production. Furthermore, patients with constipation retain more gas than those with diarrhea, suggesting that processing of gas may be related to differences in gastrointestinal (GI) motility. IBS patients also have been shown to have lower sensory thresholds than healthy individuals. Clinical studies with tegaserod, a 5-HT4 receptor agonist, have demonstrated significant reductions in bloating in patients with IBS with constipation and chronic constipation. These studies suggest that bloating and distension, at least in some individuals, may be related to impaired GI motility, altered visceral sensation, or both.





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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354438 - 01/12/10 07:55 AM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

Quote:

The underlying cause of these symptoms remains unclear.






Isn't that just great? Our bloating is more of a mystery than the galaxy is.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354450 - 01/12/10 10:52 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

They have done quite a bit of research on this already.

Part of the issue here is Viceral hypersenitivty. Even people with noraml gas have problems in IBS because of normal gas and abnormnal gas transit through the colon coupled with viceral hypersensivity.

The colon works by pressure sensitve cells and when they expand from gas or gas pockets it can cause pain and discomfort. Altered motlity causes gas pockets, like a long bnallon if you were to grap it in the center and squeeze it or anywhere along the lenght.

The exact cause of the viceral hypersensivity remains unclear.

There is also functional Bloating and IBS and they can overlap.

Expert Commentary -- Bloating, Distension, and the Irritable Bowel Syndrome


The Epidemiology of Bloating
The Relationship Between Bloating and Distension
The Pathophysiology of Bloating
How to Manage Patients With Bloating
Conclusion

The Pathophysiology of Bloating
Gas-Related Mechanisms
Patients and some physicians believe that excessive quantities of intestinal gas are the reason for bloating and/or distension. However, studies attempting to measure gas volumes have not consistently supported this theory. One such study, by Lasser and colleagues,[26] using a gas washout technique, found no differences in gas volumes between patients with bloating and their volunteer counterparts; several more recent studies using labeled sulfurhexafluoride have supported this finding.[27] Using CT scanning to estimate gas volumes, Maxton and colleagues[21] also found no definitive evidence of excess gas in IBS patients, despite demonstrating increased lateral abdominal profiles in these patients. In contrast, Koide and coworkers[28] used plain abdominal radiographs to show that gas volumes were greater in patients with IBS compared with controls. In another study, King and colleagues[29] found that although patients with IBS produced more hydrogen, total gas production was not significantly increased. Thus, the balance of evidence is against excessive gas being the sole cause of abdominal distension.

An alternative approach to determining whether bloating/distension is related to excessive amounts of intestinal gas is to assess whether attempting to modify gas volumes alters the severity of these complaints. One such study administered lactulose, a fermentable fiber (psyllium), and a nonfermentable fiber (methylcellulose) to healthy volunteers. Although lactulose ingestion resulted in an increase in flatus, all 3 materials resulted in an increase in bloating. Gas production as measured by breath hydrogen concentrations only increased following lactulose. This interesting study suggests that whereas gaseous symptoms (ie, passage of flatus) are probably related to an increase in gas production, bloating may not be.[30] Another approach to altering gas production is the modification of colonic flora. Two studies found that treatment with antibiotics improved gastrointestinal symptoms other than bloating in patients with IBS thought to have bacterial overgrowth,[31,32] and another reported similar results in patients with functional gastrointestinal disorders without bacterial overgrowth.[33] Other studies using probiotics have also failed to demonstrate any improvement in bloating, although one study did report an improvement in flatus production.[34,35] Taken together, these studies also suggest that excessive quantities of intestinal gas may be associated with gas-related complaints (flatus volume and frequency), although not necessarily be related to the symptom of bloating.

Accumulating evidence from the Barcelona group, headed by Professors Azpiroz and Malegalada, has suggested that while gas volumes may be normal in bloated patients, intestinal gas handling is abnormal. Following a study validating their "gas challenge" technique (the gas challenge test involves infusing gas at 12 mL/min into the subject's jejunum, while recording symptoms, abdominal girth, and gas volumes) in healthy volunteers,[36] Serra and colleagues[27] found that during jejunal gas infusion, 18 of 20 IBS patients retained gas, had distention, or developed abdominal symptoms, whereas 16 of 20 healthy volunteers failed to do so. These changes could be augmented by enteral infusion of lipid, providing one possible rationale as to why bloating frequently worsens in the postprandial period.[37] Another study by the same investigators suggested that the physical component of a meal (simulated by an intragastric balloon) may induce bloating, but the chemical component (simulated with an enteral lipid infusion) causes distension.[38] This is of considerable importance because it lends experimental support to questionnaire data suggesting that bloating and distension are not always synonymous, and that each may arise from distinct but overlapping pathophysiologic mechanisms. This idea was also supported by another study showing that bloating could be induced by voluntary inhibition of gas passage, while gut relaxation (induced using glucagon) caused asymptomatic distension.[39] Using abdominal inductance plethysmography, we have recently shown that patients with IBS, who complain of bloating in the absence of distension of the abdomen, have lower rectal sensitivity thresholds to balloon distension compared with patients who have both bloating and distension.[40] These patients with bloating alone may have primary perceptual abnormalities, and attempts to modify gas volumes therefore may not be expected to affect their symptoms. In contrast, patients with bloating who exhibit marked abdominal distension, as defined using abdominal inductance plethysmography, may have reduced gut sensitivity (hyposensitivity),[41] and taken together, these 2 observations may provide a possible explanation for the studies inducing bloating in the absence of distension or vice versa.

Non-Gas-Related Mechanisms
Several additional non-gas-related mechanisms have been suggested as being relevant to the pathogenesis of bloating and/or distension. Two studies have examined abdominal muscle function and reached different conclusions. One found that patients with bloating were able to perform fewer sit-ups compared with controls,[12] and the other used the more sophisticated technique of surface electrode electromyography (EMG) to show that there were no significant differences in recordings taken from IBS patients and volunteers.[42] A more recent study from the Barcelona group also used EMG recordings; these investigators found subtle changes in recordings from the abdominal oblique muscles in patients with experimentally induced bloating and distension.[43] Although the exact clinical significance of surface EMG recordings on the abdominal wall remains unclear, it does seem reasonable to assume that some form of "accommodation reflex" involving relaxation of the anterior abdominal musculature is likely to be associated with the consumption of a meal. Thus, an exaggeration or abnormality of such a reflex might partly explain the phenomenon of distension in patients with IBS. Therefore, abdominal wall function is certainly worthy of further investigation to assess its possible role in this setting.

Carbohydrate malabsorption is also sometimes cited as a possible factor causing bloating in a subgroup of patients with IBS. Whereas lactase deficiency is relatively prevalent, and therefore frequently found when specifically looked for in patients with IBS, whether this is of clinical importance is disputed. One placebo-controlled study supplementing patients' diet with lactase found that IBS symptoms were independent of treatment with this enzyme,[44] suggesting that there was no causal link between lactose intolerance and IBS symptomatology. Sorbitol and fructose have also been implicated in some patients,[45] although malabsorption of these sugars is also probably equally common in healthy controls. Finally, fluid retention has been proposed as a possible cause of bloating; however, no changes in body weight have been found during bloating episodes, and therefore this mechanism seems unlikely to be of major importance.[12] The study by Maxton and colleagues[21] using CT scanning largely excluded the previously "popular" theories of abnormal diaphragmatic descent, increased lumbar lordosis, or voluntary abdominal protrusion. A study that directly compared anxiety levels between patients with functional bloating and inflammatory bowel disease suggested that anxiety was also an unimportant factor.[46]

Conclusion

"Bloating and distension may occasionally occur in apparently healthy individuals, but are much more common in patients with functional gastrointestinal disorders. Although it has been suggested that the term "bloating" should be used to describe how the patient feels, whereas the term "distension" is reserved for an actual increase in girth, it is important to appreciate that the 2 phenomena may not be precisely the same. Despite the prevalence of these symptoms, the pathophysiology is only just beginning to be discerned and is likely to be much more complex than attributable to just the accumulation of excessive quantities of gas. Until the underlying mechanisms are better understood, treatment will remain challenging; however, modification of diet, use of antidepressants, psychological therapies, or tegaserod may lead to improvement.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/483079_4

I posted parts of this because not everyone is signed up for medscape






--------------------
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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354507 - 01/13/10 07:35 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Intestinal Gas May Contribute to IBS Symptoms

Intestinal gas and its associated symptoms (eg, bloating, distension, and flatulence) have long been trivialized and dismissed by many medical practitioners. Recent studies examining the relationship between these symptoms and the quality of life of patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) report, however, that patients experience substantial distress because of these symptoms. In fact, patients with IBS often report that, even though they may be able to cope with the abdominal pain, they cannot tolerate the bloating and distension.

In an article in the December 2003 issue of Gut, Eamonn Quigley, MD, discusses the role of intestinal gas in IBS and its relationship to IBS symptoms. Patients with IBS do not appear to produce more gas than do individuals not suffering from IBS. They do appear, however, to suffer from abnormal gas transit, which result in gas retention in the small intestine. This gas retention, combined with visceral hypersensitivity, is likely to cause symptoms (ie, gas retention causes bloating and distension, whereas hypersensitivity causes patients with IBS to experience greater discomfort than is experienced by persons without IBS at the same level of retention). Gas content and transit appear to conspire with the motor and sensory responses of the gut to produce gas-related symptoms in patients with IBS as well as in individuals not suffering from IBS, according to Dr. Quigley.

http://www.mdlinx.com/GILinx/thearts.cfm?artid=939367&specid=13&ok=yes



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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354516 - 01/13/10 10:38 PM
Naturapanic

Reged: 02/16/06
Posts: 856


Quote:

I guess it would be the distention that would make it seem that way. Do you feel less muscular when you have a cold? I think any time you feel weak there would be, not less muscle mass, but an inability to flex as big.



Well when I have a cold....my system "dries" up and am more C and B and thus yes, more weak.

When I am bloated/distenstion (I can not distguinsh between them) all I know is my chest is smaller, my shoulders are smaller and more narrower/bonier.

Know this, I have felt better of late, and what I have noticed?
In the morning I have felt a better, softer stool movement and some more gas released.

I think I can conclude that my bloating/distenstion is caused by not have a complete, soft evacuation of stools and gas.

Now the question becomes, what can I do to ensure my body does have a more fuller, softer release of stools and less gas left inside?

--------------------
IBS-C and Bloating

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #354572 - 01/14/10 07:23 PM
Little Minnie

Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 4987
Loc: Minnesota

1. distention is the gut sticking out; bloating is how it feels and what it is doing inside

2. have you measured your chest and shoulders when normal and when bloated to prove they get smaller? My weightlifting husband agrees with me about the whole smaller muscles when bloated thing

3. yes and no about C and bloating. Being regular helps bloating almost more than anything else, but you can still have terrible bloating and not be C (believe me!). If your bloating is the kind that results from C (yes there are different kinds of bloating IMO) of course it will help. Your goal is to cure C first and this is partly why. Being regular is the key to improvement. (that is why I always encourage people with C to take a SFS even when they say it makes them bloated- b/c once the C is gone the bloating should/may get better)
Quote:

Now the question becomes, what can I do to ensure my body does have a more fuller, softer release of stools and less gas left inside?



Lots of SF with IF mixed in! Plenty of water and tea. Foods with plenty of moisture and the right amount of fats.

--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!

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Re: Bloating & distention are common IBS symptoms new
      #364932 - 05/29/11 09:19 PM
hudlander

Reged: 09/26/10
Posts: 198


Quote:

Intestinal Gas May Contribute to IBS Symptoms

Intestinal gas and its associated symptoms (eg, bloating, distension, and flatulence) have long been trivialized and dismissed by many medical practitioners. Recent studies examining the relationship between these symptoms and the quality of life of patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) report, however, that patients experience substantial distress because of these symptoms. In fact, patients with IBS often report that, even though they may be able to cope with the abdominal pain, they cannot tolerate the bloating and distension.

In an article in the December 2003 issue of Gut, Eamonn Quigley, MD, discusses the role of intestinal gas in IBS and its relationship to IBS symptoms. Patients with IBS do not appear to produce more gas than do individuals not suffering from IBS. They do appear, however, to suffer from abnormal gas transit, which result in gas retention in the small intestine. This gas retention, combined with visceral hypersensitivity, is likely to cause symptoms (ie, gas retention causes bloating and distension, whereas hypersensitivity causes patients with IBS to experience greater discomfort than is experienced by persons without IBS at the same level of retention). Gas content and transit appear to conspire with the motor and sensory responses of the gut to produce gas-related symptoms in patients with IBS as well as in individuals not suffering from IBS, according to Dr. Quigley.

http://www.mdlinx.com/GILinx/thearts.cfm?artid=939367&specid=13&ok=yes




In fact, patients with IBS often report that, even though they may be able to cope with the abdominal pain, they cannot tolerate the bloating and distension.

Yes, that is me.
So basically bloating/distension IS common, but there is no known treatment at this time.
Swell.

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