triggers vs possible gas increasing foods/things
#344575 - 04/16/09 07:13 AM
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I have been thinking a lot about the inulin in Luna bars and how it has been presumed for so long that Luna bars were safe (and maybe the ingredients changed sometime). It got me thinking about foods that maybe aren't triggers but need caution and are in a separate group. Triggers, IMO, are red meat, dairy, high fat, alcohol, caffeine and artificial sweeteners. IF is not a trigger in that way, but needs caution and should be eaten safely. Then there are the foods that aren't forbidden but that some choose not to eat: beans, cole crops (broccoli, cabbage etc), sulfur containing stuff (onions, garlic, eggs, some dried fruits), soy, granola, barley and lentils, and I think inulin should be in this category (at this time I do). They are things that normal people sometimes get gas from. Then there are the extra things like MSG. Then there is fructose which is in the bean category UNLESS you have a confirmed sensitivity and then it is a main trigger.
Also in the bean category are chewing gum, using straws, taking naps and other things that cause bloating and gas. This is how I view it at this time and only my personal opinion and just based on some new ideas I had of understanding triggers and other factors.
So I suppose the stuff in the bean category, as I call it, should be used with caution on a personal basis. But that people need to know that some of those things cause gas, etc.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Very good observation Little Minnie. That was a great post. The inulin is definitely a trigger for me (i.e. it causes great pain and gas, bloating, etc.)The chewing gum, straws, and naps are also other things that swell my abdomen. I hope people read your post and consider all of these normal, everyday occurences as potential danger. Thanks again for insights!
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IBS-C, Gas, Bloating, HURTING!
I'm married and it's so wonderful!
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Over the past few years it has been reported and confirmed that increased methane gas produced in the colon correlates with increased constipation. For example, see the report in the research library. It has been speculated that one reason the that some antibiotics and the probiotic in Danone Activia - Bifidobacterium lactis - are effective for some with IBS-C is because this bacteria reduces methane or methane producing bacteria in the colon. At the moment it is not understood why those with C have more methane producing bacteria (methogens) in their colonic flora or what foods these methogens ferment to produce methane.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
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I notice increased pain after naps too why do you think that would be??
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In my opinion, the naps make your bowls think you are going to sleep for 8 hours like a normal night's sleep. When you wake up in just an hour or so, your bowls revolt because they didn't get the full 8 hours. Does that make sense? It does to me. It's like they want the rest too, but not just an hour or so but the full night's rest.
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IBS-C, Gas, Bloating, HURTING!
I'm married and it's so wonderful!
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Little Minnie, I so agree with you. It is such an individual thing, as I said in another post. You can be aware of trigger foods, but sometimes they may not be trigger foods for you. I do agree that dairy, red meat, high fat, alcohol, caffeine, and artificial sweetners should be avoided, not only by those with IBS, but everyone in general. This is where Heather's diet excels!
IF is so necessary for a complete and balanced diet. And as you say for some, not all, this must be balanced with SF, very carefully so as not to cause symptoms. But, some people can handle raw veggies, as myself, with no symptoms.
Naps do not bother me at all. My most difficult time is when I wake up in the AM. That is when the bloat is the absolute worst for me.
Nice thoughtful post, Minnie.
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NAPS
#344585 - 04/16/09 08:26 AM
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Rebecca1013
Reged: 04/05/09
Posts: 144
Loc: Catasauqua Pennsylvania
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 oh my I can't have my doughnuts or naps on saturdays anymore....
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Re: NAPS
#344588 - 04/16/09 09:06 AM
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Kappy
Reged: 10/09/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Mississippi
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Ooooohhhh... doughnuts. they make me weak in the knees  haha. No more naps on Saturdays and Sundays for me either. 
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IBS-C, Gas, Bloating, HURTING!
I'm married and it's so wonderful!
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This is my first post even though i've been a member since 2005, I am more of a reader that wants to learn. I started reading this board again a couple months ago. For the past 1 1/2 years I thought I had a problem with gluten but am coming to the conclusion that it is IBS with wheat, high fructose (especially honey and apples),raw vegetables and dairy being my triggers. I agree that some triggers should be looked at maybe with caution. I can drink decaf coffee with no problem but caffeine no-way. Everyone is so individual...great post little minnie!
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IBS A for over 22 years, lactose intolerant
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Quote:
I do agree that dairy, red meat, high fat, alcohol, caffeine, and artificial sweetners should be avoided, not only by those with IBS, but everyone in general. This is where Heather's diet excels!
Isn't that the truth!
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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I only nap when I don't need to go anywhere afterward. That makes it tough when we have an event that will be a late night and I want to nap to make it through, but if I nap I get more bloated and gassy than otherwise. 
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Gas in itself definitely could be more than just unpleasant. Still there are gas causing foods that aren't considered no no's here like soy and if soy can be started slowly and then be less gas producing, as beans can be when eaten regularly, then the question is why can't other gas increasing foods like broccoli and Jerusalem artichokes? I'm just wondering. 
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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You know what that is a good question because i know beano which is used to reduce gas in beans can also be used to control side effects from broc and brussels so it would make sense that you could be able to build a tolerance when slowly increased as well.
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Edited by Rebecca1013 (04/16/09 07:13 PM)
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Generally speaking there are two factors at work in the production of gas in the gut - sugars and fibers. Both are composed of carbohydrates or saccharides.
The sugars raffinose and stachyose in beans, soy, broccoli, brussel sprouts, etc can not be broken down in the small intestine by humans or mammals because they don't have the necessary enzymes. Undigested sugars act like fast food for colonic bacteria which quickly fermented them. The precise amount and type of gas produced varies widely from person to person and depends on gender, age and the composition of an individual's gut flora.
There are a variety of different types of fiber. Some fibers such as methylcellulose are non-fermentable, some fibers such as psyllium are partially or slowly fermentable and some fibers such as inulin and FOS are rapidly fermented. The fiber in Jerusalem artichokes is rapidly fermentable. Again the amount of gas and type of gas produced depends on a variety of factors including the composition of the gut flora.
While some people may be able to slowly increase their intake of things such as soy which may change the composition of the gut flora allowing them to consume these foods other people cannot. No matter how slowly I try to increase my soy or bean intake even using beano I cannot get rid of the gas. Soy and beans are not viable options for me.
There isn't a simple answer to your question because much of the gas producing nature of the gut flora has to do with its composition which can vary widely from individual to individual. For example, it is unclear why some people produce methane gas and some people do not. Normally undigested food in large intestine is broken down by bacteria producing hydrogen and carbon dioxide but in about one-third of the population their gut flora contain methogens that produce methane gas.
The other thing to remember is that foods that produce gas in one person may not cause gas in another. Some common bacteria in the large intestine can destroy the hydrogen that other bacteria produce. The balance of the two types of bacteria may explain why some people have more gas than others.
The gut is a complicated organ which is still poorly understood  I suspect that a better understanding of the gut flora will leading to better clues on how to manage IBS.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Beano contains an enzyme that your body does not produce which breaks down two sugars - raffinose and stachyose. No matter how slowly you increase consumption of foods such as broccoli and brussel sprout containing these sugars it will not encourage your body to produce the enzyme which it needs to digest these sugars It might change the composition of the gut flora which ferments these sugars in the colon but there is no guarantee it will help.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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soy and beans are 2 things that can be better tolerated when eaten in small amounts on a regular basis. The wind is decreased. So I don't know why or what happens in the intestines but it is known to be a fact. So if that is the case for soy and beans I have just been wondering if other offending veggies and fibers would be similar.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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You are assuming it has been shown that eating a little bit of soy or bean on a regular basis decrease gas production in everyone. While this assumption may apply to many people it does apply to everyone.
You might find this relevant and humorous article on Soy Carbohydrates: The Flatulence Factor interesting. It discusses the incredible lengths the soy industry goes to trying to cure the problem of soy and flatulence.
Slowly increasing the dose of acacia or other fiber supplements to reduce gas and bloating by letting the colonic flora adjust to a new food source is based on the same principle as eating small regular amounts of soy or beans. While this approach with fiber supplements works for many people it can be seen from many postings on the board this approach does not work for everyone. One reason it does work is the wide variation in the gut flora composition from individual to individual and the way different flora compositions ferment different sugars and fibers.
The thing we know for certain is that foods that produce gas for one person may not produce gas for another person.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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I heard a health segment on the Today show last week that stated it is true that the bean tooting will improve the more regularly they are eaten. Not sure how well it would apply to IBS sufferers. As for soy it has long been stated on this site that starting slowly and gradually will help with soy tooting.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Just started taking fiber supplements and I'm experiencing a lot of gas.
Quote:
While this approach with fiber supplements works for many people it can be seen from many postings on the board this approach does not work for everyone.
Are you saying that even if I increase my fiber intake slowly, I might still get gas from it. Does that mean I could never reach a point where I can take fiber and not get gas from it?
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IBS-C, GERD, Lactose Intolerant, "Allergic" to Legumes (Soy!), Tree Nuts.
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Some people find that they cannot adjust to certain soluble fiber supplements even when they increase the dose slowly. Unfortunately, there is no way to predict who will have this problem. Like all things IBS you have to try a particular soluble fiber to see if it problematic for you. While one soluble fiber maybe problematic another may not.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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But I am confused because certain comments have been made saying-- if you feel worse the first week taking fiber- keep taking it because your body is just getting used to it and you can't give up on it without allowing it some time to work. So if I feel worse-- should I try to stick with it, or try a different kind of fiber?
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IBS-C, GERD, Lactose Intolerant, "Allergic" to Legumes (Soy!), Tree Nuts.
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Stick with it for a few weeks slowly increasing the dose.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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it seems that those who have already been on another SFS don't have a problem with acacia. Those who have never been on or tolerated a SFS are the ones who cannot bear it. I had no problems since I had been taking lots of Fibercon. If you sense you are doing fine at the lowest dose go ahead and increase a teeny bit every 2-3 days. If you are used to fiber and take well to acacia you could be at 2T a day in a few weeks.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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