Rate that food!
#344020 - 04/03/09 06:28 PM
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Hello all. Thanks to everyone who contributed to my first post. I found it all incredibly helpful. My doctor called and said my tests were all negative for more serious problems, which means it must be IBS, unless there are things you can only find with serious invasive tests like a colonoscopy.
Anyway, that is neither here nor there. My main challenge is figuring our what to buy at the store. I understand the simple, basic things like the cheat sheet list, but some things are sketchy and underrepresented so I wanted to throw some things out here and see what the community thinks. I do most of my shopping at Safeway, but today I tried a nice healthy food store we have here in CA called Whole Foods which has a ton of gluten free dairy free etc stuff - problem is it's just really expensive. Still, some things left me scratching my head, so...RATE THAT FOOD!
1. One of the things I used to love was whey protein bars. Now the dairy is out but my love of bars remains. I looked for a bar that fit the cheat sheet but there was nothing that was purely safe. I ended up trying these bars called Larabars, and their ingredients are pretty sparse, nothing artificial, an example is dates, walnuts, almonds, raisins, cashews, cinnamon. Now I know all that stuff is on the caution part of the cheat sheet so it's not safe but not triggers. Has anyone tried? Does it sound ok, assuming I have some SF first? Are there alternatives that are mostly safe besides Luna bars (I won't get something that says "for women" right on the dang wrapper)?
2. Fruit juices specifically cranberry and orange juice. Is high pulp ok?
3. Sugar cookies. I saw Nilla Wafers were good but don't they have milk products in them? These cookies have no dairy and all natural ingredients. Nothing straight off the trigger list.
4. Low Sodium V8.
5. SMALL amounts of nut butter, peanut, almond, sunflower, etc. I just got one called Smart Balance Natural Peanut Butter and it is fatty but with the good fats (1000mg Omega 3's) and decent fiber, low sugar, nothing artificial.
That's pretty much it for now. Most of the rest of the stuff I got was straight off the safe list like soy milk, applesauce, etc.
Also, extra credit question: I read on these boards that Subway is mostly ok, and I went there today for lunch. I got a 6 inch turkey breast on sourdough (I used to get whole wheat, but that's iffy on the diet) with no cheese, regular mustard, lettuce, tomato, and cucumber. After eating the sandwich I noticed a very slight increase in pain and discomfort in my midsection, nothing problematic, but definitely different from earlier in the day when I was only eating safe foods. Did I do something wrong? Again, it was very slight, and didn't impact my workday at all, and as far as I can tell all other systems remain normal, I just felt a slight tinge, which I describe as feeling like the food is having a bit more trouble moving through me than usual.
Finally, I was wondering if certain trigger foods such as red meat and dairy are trigger foods for specific reasons or just because they have a lot of fat in them. Specifically, what I mean is if one were to have small portions of very lean red meat or non-fat milk, would that still be a trigger? Would it be a reduced trigger? Are these foods themselves the problem or just their fat content.
Thanks!
EDIT/UPDATE: I almost forgot. I don't go out to dinner much, but sushi is really popular around here. From the cheat sheet, it should be ok, fish and white rice, maybe some cucumber and avocado in small portions in the CA Roll, and sometimes teriyaki chicken (with sauce on the side). Is it harder to digest raw fish? I also loved the Unagi, which is eel, and cooked, but I don't know if that's too oily. What about the sides, wasabi and sliced ginger? Thanks!
Edited by MikeCA1870 (04/03/09 07:45 PM)
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I'll only respond to things I for sure know answers for - so just know that I'm not ignoring part of your post.
1. Larabars can be iffy - they are high in fat due to the amount of nuts in them. If you are C, you might be better able to handle them. As far as Luna Bars go, I think that Clif Bars are very similar in terms of ingredients, and you might want to give those a try. They are made by the same company but marketed toward men. My husband won't eat Luna Bars for the same reason, though they are very similar to Clif Bars.
2. I don't drink juice, so I can't really answer that. Heather does say to avoid it because of the high sugar and acid content that might bother IBS.
3. I do think NIlla Wafers have milk, and you can find similar cookies in the health food store that do not have milk. However, the number one thing to watch out for here is FAT! Most cookies are high in fat. Even if they only have 4 or 5 grams of fat per serving, the percentage of fat might be too high to safely eat.
5. Don't know!
6. Again, watch the fat intake. Nut butters are full of good fats, however fat of any kind will trigger IBS. Make sure you eat with a SF cushion rather than, say, with an apple (which is my favorite way to eat pb!). And don't eat 2 or 3 tablespoons!
In terms of meat and dairy, fat is definitely an issue, but it's also that the proteins are very difficult to digest and can trigger IBS problems.
I don't know about eel specifically, but most sushi should be safe from an IBS standpoint.
Hope that helped a bit!
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IBS-C
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A colonoscopy is a good idea. Just in case.
On juices, you're probably better off with cranberry than with orange because of the fructose. Juices deliver a lot of fructose very quickly which can be problematic even for non-IBSers. (web page)
Dairy and red meat are problematic for reasons other than just their high fat content. (web page)
You may need to start out eating mostly Soluble Fiber foods but you should end up:
avoiding triggers
having an SF base for every meal and snack
eating as much IF as you can manage.
Here's a simple summary: web page
HTH.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Whole Foods is a great place to shop, but you always have to read labels whether there or in a regular grocery store.
I shop at both a natural foods store and the regular grocery store. There are items that you cannot get in the grocery store, that I can get at the health food store.
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1. Odwalla bars are safe, Clif bars are not. Lara and Bumble bars and some other less known minimal ingredient bars are also safe, read the ingredients. Cereal bars such as Clif kids and Nature's Choice are safe and SF. Watch that the IF ingredients aren't more than the SF. Could you put a Luna bar in a baggie and eat it? My hub eats them but probably wouldn't like someone teasing him about it. They are a better protein source than Odwalla.
2. I would avoid or limit fruit juices for now. Cranberry is the best bet, not cocktails. Also ginger drinks are great!
3. I'll have to think about it.
4. watch that for now, fructose and acid are high.
5. Try skippy reduced fat; it tastes better than Smart Balance, but has sugar in it. If it isn't sweet enough I put agave or jam on it so I might as well get the sweet kind.
Subway is technically better and safer but can be so filling and that in itself can be a problem. As Syl says the raw veggies bother some people. I would try it again and eat less and slower. Also get some baked chips.
Even lean meat and dairy are triggers. They are hard to digest due to proteins etc that are known to cause problems in even normal people. Red meat is known to cause C in normal people. Dairy has the proteins and the lactose and just causes issues. I tend to be rational and not scientific and believe how something makes me feel. For me fatty dairy is the number 1 trigger and leads to D in minutes. I can handle a sprinkling of parmesan sometimes but otherwise dairy never fails at giving symptoms. Please just try to avoid it and see how you do. It is better than being skeptical; really it makes it easier!
Ginger anything is good for IBS and rice is easy to digest. All fish, unless fried, is fine.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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There are things that can only be distinguished from IBS with either a colonoscopy or an endoscopy. Generally speaking a colonoscopy is recommended before a final diagnosis of IBS is made. There is a fairly good overview on the required tests on the main web site
Question. From you previous postings it appears as if you are IBS-D predominant. Is this correct?
1. Some larabars have 7 grams of saturated fat and most contain more than 10 grams of total fat. Also some bars contain 5 grams of fiber most of which is insoluble fiber. If you are IBS-D you might want to treat these with caution. The fat content is quite high. Also, generally speaking IBS-D suffers need more soluble fiber than insoluble fiber with each meal/snack.
2. Some fruit juices are fine as long as you do not have problems fructose - that is with foods that contain more fructose than glucose. Some of us have that problem which means we have to restrict consumption of apple, pear, mango, etc juices and fruits that contain more fructose than glucose. The excess fructose is a known trigger for some IBSers. You can read about it in Heather's newsletter or from the reference article linked to in my signature.
3. Sugar cookies are fine.
4. I cannot drink V8 juice -- too much insoluble fiber for me. However, I believe others on the board don't have problems with it.
5. Small amounts of nut butter are fine
Lettuce, tomato and cucumber can present problems for some while for others they are perfectly fine.
Diary and red meat are interesting. It is unknown why diary present a problem for many IBSers. Dairy is a complex food with many different proteins, fats and sugars such as lactose. Lactose intolerance is a well-known problem for some IBSers. The EFI diet recommends removing all diary. The IBS research shows that the two most common IBS food intolerances are dairy and wheat. However, most health-care providers suggest these foods are something you will have to figure out for yourself if you are ok with them. While some red meat is high in fat some types are not. However, red meat is dense in protein and connective tissue. It takes longer to digest which affects the motility of the gut and thus can impact IBS symptoms. However, I have found that some pork cuts - the other white meat - such as tenderloin are quite tolerable.
Raw fish is easy to digest. And sushi is definitely on the safe list but I am not sure about eel.
I never shop at a whole or natural food store. I find that by reading product labels carefully I can find all the IBS safe foods I need at store like Safeway. However, I do prepare most foods myself and rarely eat prepared commercial foods.
It sounds like from your postings that you are getting a good sense of the diet. Stick with it. Good luck 
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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I don't know which "dominance" I have. My GI doctor didn't go into details (she was surprisingly vague considering she's s GI specialist, works with 5 other GI specialists, and you would think IBS is by far the #1 most common GI upset.).
However, maybe you can help. My confusion stems from the fact that over the past 5 weeks, I have suffered from all the typical symptoms in some amount or other, and some that aren't even on the list.
It all started with D, but it was more like a one second I'm fine and then I hear a rumble in my stomach, have urgency, and must make it to the bathroom in a few minutes D. This happened to me in the past maybe 3/4 times a year and I was always fine and normal after I got it out. I always thought it was food based, gastroenteritis. Never would I have, say, two D in the same day. So this time, I expected the same, and indeed it did get better that weekend (after the D, which was on a Thurs) and my food intake that weekend was particularly red meat and fat laden (went home to see the folks!). Starting the next week, I had very light D on the Tuesday, but less than 1/4 the amount as usual, very light. Most of my symptoms at that time were mental (fear, anxiety, flushing, cold sweats). From then on til now I have alternated between feelings of pain and discomfort (along with weird related things like waking up with the shakes, dizziness, nausea, etc., though all these supplemental things have been gone for two weeks now) but normal bowel function to short periods (1-2 day max) of C. Urgency was also probably my biggest complaint during that time, but in the past two weeks it also has gone away. My only symptoms these days is a sense of fullness every time I eat (may just be that I am increasing SF or that my stomach has shrunk) and maybe a light pain after I eat which I described in an earlier post as simply feeling the food is passing through me in a non-smooth way. I began following Heather's diet (not entirely strictly, but close enough - no triggers) a little less than a week ago, have been taking Align for a little over a week, and have been taking fiber supplements (mix of Metamucil and just started taking an SF only in addition today - I like to get some IF because every nutritionist in the world says it is healthy) for about two weeks. Any of those things (and I suspect, a combination of all of them) could have been responsible for my improvement.
So, based on that exhaustive history, Syl, what subtype would you estimate I have? Also, I saw the list of things IBS symptoms could be, but when you rule out everything that can be determined from blood and stool work, what specifically is left that can only be diagnosed by a colonoscopy?
Thanks Syl and everyone else for the food critique. I'm ditching the Larabars and the OJ. I guess, since I am a young (ish ) man, I have different priorities than many on this site who it sounds like focus on weight maintenance and aerobic exercise. I'd like to build muscle and along with resistance training the main way to do that nutritionally was through whey protein supplements (shakes and bars). Soy is a poor substitute but I guess I need to work within my constraints.
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This is the ingredient list for Oatmeal Raisin Luna Bars:
Ingredients: LunaPro™ (Soy Rice Crisp [Soy Protein Isolate, Organic Rice Flour], Organic Toasted Oats, Organic Roasted Soybeans, Organic Soy Flour, Organic Flaxmeal), Organic Brown Rice Syrup, Organic Coating (Organic Evaporated Cane Juice, Organic Palm Kernel Oil, Organic Soy Flour, Organic Soy Lecithin, Organic Vanilla), Organic Raisins, Vegetable Glycerin, Organic Soy Butter, Inulin (Chicory Extract), Natural Flavors, Organic Sunflower Oil, Rice Flour, Sea Salt, Organic Cinnamon.
This is the ingredient list for Oatmeal Raisin Clif Bars:
Ingredients: Organic Brown Rice Syrup, ClifPro® (Soy Rice Crisps [Soy Protein Isolate, Rice Flour, Malt Extract], Organic Roasted Soybeans, Organic Soy Flour), Organic Rolled Oats, Raisins, Organic Evaporated Cane Juice, Walnuts, ClifCrunch® (Organic Oat Fiber, Inulin [Chicory Extract], Organic Milled Flaxseed, Organic Oat Bran, Psyllium), Organic Soy Butter, Molasses Powder, Natural Flavors, Ground Cinnamon, Sea Salt.
Why are Luna Bars safe but Clif Bars are not? I see that the Clif Bars have a very small amount of psyllium in them, but both have inulin and according to Heather inulin is not safe either.
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IBS-C
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Last time I looked Clif bars were unsafe; they must have changed the ingredients. I didn't just remember it that way or I would have been eating them all this time! I think they used to have dairy in them and must not now. I'm pretty excited! since I have had issues with no PB Lunas lately.
Inulin, like carageenan and fructose, is one of those things some people avoid and some don't. I eat Jerusalem artichokes which are high in inulin. It definitely causes gas for many people. Gardeners claim cooking carrots with sunchokes makes them more digestible. (They are great for diabetics.) But I don't have a problem with veggies at all. I hadn't realized Luna bars had inulin though and it is worth noting to be sure.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Frankly, I'm not convinced you have IBS. You may want to see another doctor. Many doctors just use IBS as a catchall disease when they don't know what else to say. But if you are negative for parasites and such that is a good start. If your symptoms are stress related but not necessarily just IBS, the IBS diet would still be beneficial.
Eating lean and high in protein can fit fine into the IBS diet. I use rice protein, eat luna bars, nuts and egg whites. I have upped my protein to 70 grams a day or so. I find rice protein a better idea than soy protein. (If you eat eggs please buy cruelty free. Sorry, I have to say that to everyone.)
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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