Herbal Supplements for Insomnia for someone with IBS-D
#342908 - 03/05/09 04:48 PM
|
|
|
|
LtDanFan
Reged: 12/17/03
Posts: 588
Loc: Ohio
|
|
|
I was watching a program recently on PBS about "your magnificant mind" and the doctor speaking was talking about natural remedies for insomnia, which I have had for several years. He mentioned Kava Kava, Melatonin, 5HTP and something else.....sorry, has anyone with IBS - tried any of these and if so did you have an tummy reactions. I've been reading on line about each, and some sound really freaky, but prescription meds do not work on me......Any help would be appreciated!!
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have tried melatonin. It sort of worked for me. Also, there is some research showing that melatonin may be beneficial for IBS too. I used Weber's 3mg sublingual OTC melatonin .
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Sly,
Do you have an next day hand over feeling? What is sort of worked. Did you feel you got enough sleep to function the next day? Did you have any dreams or nightmares? Thanks!
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I also take 3 mg melatonin every night. No hungover feeling the next day. Definitely helps me get to sleep and stay asleep longer. And no side effects on the tummy.
--------------------
IBS-C, lots of spasm and trapped gas.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
That is so cool to know. How much do you take? Thanks!
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
My 2¢ - I use melatonin (3 mg Nature's Bounty) and it helps me sleep longer and better. I don't usually have any "hangover" from it (sometimes I take a few minutes in the morning to clear the cobwebs but I'm not sure that's caused by the melatonin) and I've never had any stomach issues from it.
It is not habit forming.
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Melatonin is wonderfully mild with no residual effects. You kind of just drift off to sleep very gently. It is sublingual, so you just place it in under your tongue until disolved.
Kava Kava was recommended to my by my physician for my GAD, but I chose not to use it, so I cannot speak to its effectiveness.
There is also Valerian Root, but I have not tried that either. I am leery of new herbs/medications, so I stick with what I know to work and not make me wacky in the AM.
Hope this helps!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I took ST JOhns Wort for anixety and one of the other things it is used for is insomnia.It did make me sleepy and no side effects for IBS.Just don't take it if pregnant or nursing or on BC pills.
--------------------
IBS-D since 1999...mostly stable..i do cheat too.Bad me.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Do most of you take 3mg of melatonin? I had read you should try to get the synthetic kind instead of animal product to avoid chance of infection. I could not find any at the store today that stated whether it was synthetic or animal. Also, I only weigh about 103 lbs. Do you think I would be ok to take one. I got the 3mg tablets. They do not say they are sublingual. How close to when you actually go to sleep do you take it? How long does it take it to work? Also, I take Lorazapam .5mg @ bedtime, my doctor did not get back with me about this, but I wonder if I should not take one tonight if I'm taking the Melatonin. Also, is anyone taking these that are on an antidepressent? Lil Minnie, you said Melatonin and Chamomille is ok. I have been drinking the tea at bedtime. Thanks everyone
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I don't have any on hand right now, but the kind I buy has instructions on usage. I bought the 2 mg sublinguals, as I always try to take the lowest dose possbile and still get the same results. An an example, if I got a really bad headache in the past, I would take 2 Motrin, until I realized I could take one and get the same relief.
I would take mine about 1 hour before bed, because it does take a little bit of time to kick in. I wish I had some in the fridge right now, and I could better tell you.
I would never even begin to offer adivce where medication is concerned (the Lorazapam). That is definitely a question for your doctor.
As Minnie said, I can't imagine a problem with Chamomille tea and the Melatonin. I have several cups of Chamomille every evening, and I have taken the Melatonin many times. It has not created any problems for me, but always check with your doc if you are not sure.
You have brought something to my attention that I was not aware of...animal vs. synthetic. I hope mine is synthetic since I do not do any animal products. I will research this. Thanks
HTH 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
3 mg is a standard does. Virtually all melatonin sold in North America is synthetic. The effects of melatonin are not similar to a sleeping pill. It is much gentler. Take it about an hour before you normally go to sleep.
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I did not mean to imply that 3mg could not be taken, Syl. I was simply stating that for me 2mg worked just fine. Why take more than you need? If you find 2mg does not work then up it to 3mg.
As far as what time to take it, that may be trial and error for this person, since everyone is different. I tried it for one half hour before bed and I needed more time. Not everyone is the same. And at that time I was taking (2) 2 mg. and it still took me more time.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
The only sublingual dose size available here is 3 mg. Also, the dose size used in the clinical trials where it on IBSers was 3 mg. It appears to be the typical dose size. When I was in the US a few years ago I saw a 2 mg version.
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Oh my, ok I tried the Melatonin last night, I always get so paranoid taking new medication, whether it be prescription ot not, and I took half a 3mg tablet of the melatonin. I tried to sleep, I became paranoid, I had 7,000 dreams, tossed and turned all night, at one point, thought if it did start working, I was going to sleep and never wake up and thought about making myself throw the pill up.........Good lord, I'm afraid to try it again. I'm not sure if my being so anxious to try something did this, or if the pill just reacted this way to me. I do have a problem with pills that usually are supposed to do one thing to you, they do just the opposite to me. Like Benadryl, a lot of people use it to sleep, wires me like a hot rod. I'm at a loss now. But I know it was a horrible night and I am exhausted this morning. Anyone want a bottle of Basic Vitamins Melatonin. I'll be happy to send them to you, or I'm going to pitch them. Scared to try them again, uness it would be during the day........just to see???
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
There is a 2 mg version in the US...right in my health food store!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Oh, I am so sorry for you. It may have been the anxiety, who knows. Do what you feel is best and safest for you. I am the same way. I hate trying any new medication whether it be herbal or pharmaceutical. I hope you find something that will work for you.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hiya Lynn!!!
DanFan, I would suggest trying the tablet again. If you are somewhat comfortable taking a ½ tab, then do that. Don't expect that it'll knock you out, but once you are relaxed it will help you sleep better.
You've already gone over the high hurdle. You took the med and you now know how it feels in the morning after. That's a good step for you.
A lot of nights when I have too much on my mind (whatever anxiety I experienced during the day) I have severe trouble falling asleep (even if I took a melatonin tablet). I have to get up from the bed because I absolutely HATE the feeling of just laying there and not being able to fall off to sleep (sometimes I feel like I'm gonna crawl out of my skin). It becomes a routine in which I get up, go back to bed, get up, etc., a few times a night.
If you are absolutely set against trying the melatonin again, it helps, too, if you change your habits. Save the bed and bedroom for SLEEP ONLY. If you wanna fool around, use your couch, kitchen floor or ceiling fan instead of the bed. If possible, set up a quiet hour before going to sleep and avoid all stimulants (bright lights, caffeine, etc.). Try reading a book, put on some soft music, or anything that relaxes you. Also, don't nap during the day.
Good luck!! 
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Vivid dreams
#342965 - 03/07/09 12:06 PM
|
|
|
|
|
Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
|
|
|
Melatonin can cause vivid dreams in some people.
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi, right back at ya, Runs. Good advice! But, ceiling fan? 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Good advice! But, ceiling fan?
I was going to write "chandelier" but don't know how to spell it.
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks everyone for being so supportive and not thinking I am an idiot....I am going to try it once more, but half during the day when I don't have to go anywhere. I think I just want to see how is actually makes me feel, anxious, sleepy etc. and that day I just won't plan anything in case I did just paranoid myself out and I get tired. I will not mention the ceiling fan, my husband would be searching for a way......he'll have blue prints
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
OMG you are as funny as Runs! Blueprints. Hey Runs, blueprints.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
LMAO, Lynn.
Good one, DanFan!
That's a good idea to try the melatonin on a night in which you can spend the next day "relaxing" just to see its effects.
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well, when you have IBS-D, OCD, and MS, you got to try to find humor in anything you can. I think my husband went to Lowe's with blueprints in hand.......I think I'll be "asleep" when he gets home...  I thought taking it through the day, would give me a chance to see and feel exactly what it's doing to me......but if I can't handle it, does anyone want this bottle, I just bought it yesterday. No charge, I'd rather give it to someone then throw it away. LtDanFan
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Sounds like you have a lot on your plate, but it's refreshing to see someone like that with the ability to laugh.
Good luck!!
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Runs,
Forgot to tell you I like your name, is that weird?? Thanks, some days I take the Montel approach. I may have MS, but MS doesn't have me!! It's easier certain days then others, just like with the IBS. Some days you wake up, have a normal poop and sing Halilueah, and others it's like WTC, did I eat, breathe or smell that gave me an IBS attack.
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm like you about taking anything new and have to research the heck out of it, ask everyone I know, pray about it, ask everyone again, can't trust the dr. - can you tell I have a control issue?? I also was diagnosed with GAD and PTSD.
I have just one word of caution - check with a pharmacist or someone know knows psychotropic meds combining with supplements, inasmuch as you mentioned you also take Lorazepam (Valium), right?
--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
GaGa,
Boy I'm glad to see I'm not alone with the being a little over precautious......anyway. Yes, I take Prozac and Lorazepam, which is Ativan. It's a "pam" so it's related to valium I"m sure. The night I took the half of the melatonin, I didn't take my lorazepam. I do not take a large dose, not more then one a day, so I do not feel it was a withdrawl from it, but I'm not a doctor, just sometimes pretend to be.........Thanks I called the pharamcy, pharamacist was busy, I"ll call back.
--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Since melatonin is a natural thing in our bodies, do you think people with vivid crazy dreams all the time have more than normal melatonin?
I would give anything to not dream. And I don't take melatonin or chantix!
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
I would give anything to not dream.
 Why?
If you're lucky enough to remember your dreams you can gain great insight into yourself. On the few occasions that I can actually remember my dreams I am quite surprised at how they tie into what I was doing or stressing over in the recent past. (Of course being able to correctly decipher the dream is another story).
I am a smoker (please, don't throw anything at me) and have tried Chantix as a possible "cure". I didn't last four nights.... WEIRD, WEIRD dreams. 
I'm not sure if dreams are chemically caused but you raise an interesting question (whether those with higher amounts of natural melatonin in their bodies dream differently).
I do know, however, that diet can determine how we dream. Back in the day when I was able to eat pretty much anything, I'd have really vivid, whacky dreams after eating something like a sausage pizza. Dunno what caused it but it never failed.
--------------------
Saul (IBS - D)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Melatonin is a hormone that your body makes itself. It starts to decline as you age and by the time you are in your late 40's early 50's you are making less than younger people - that is thought to be why older people sleep less. The best way to make sure your body is making enough melatonin is to sleep in a dark room! You shouldn't use it for more than a few months at a time if you decide to use it. Younger people usually don't 'need' it as they still make plenty of it themselves.
Kava Kava is safe to use for a similar amount of time. Most herbal remedies for sleep are the same in that way. I have used Kava and Valerian Root with no intestinal problems at all. In fact if you google either one, i.e. Kava for IBS, they will say that these can be helpful with IBS as they help relax you. But there is no one sleep remedy that should be taken on a continual basis - with the exception of Chamomile (it is very mild and doesn't work the same way as kava or valerian root - it's good for IBS too!)
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I suspect it is more complicated than just excess melatonin that causesed vivid dreams. Sleep is modulated by many things including other regulators such as a variety of neurotransmitters and hormones, anxiety, body temperature, etc.
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I used to take 5mg melatonin for my insomnia and it only worked when I got myself into bed and ready for sleep in 20 minutes, which is how long it took. Otherwise, it didn't help me.
Recently diagnosed with UC, and having feelings of depression and insomnia, along with amitriptyline (an old anti-depressant used for cases of IBD), my naturopath put me on Optimized TryptoPure Plus by LifeExtension - a natural sleep enhancement and stress reducer (www.lef.org)
This combo helps me get to sleep and stay asleep and manage my current state of depression. I also drink St John's Wort Tea, Stress Ease Tea and found valerian root to always help. And, Bach's Flower Essence: Rescue Remedy
--------------------
"Peace is not the opposite of agitation. It is the absence of agitation. It is a completely relaxed and restful state." Amma
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi,
I replied to one of your posts in the Chrohns/Colitis board. I too use the Bach Flower rememdies. I see a lady every other week who does energy work and makes up an individual blend for me. The flowers work great.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Once in a while I have really pleasant dreams. In fact last night I dreamt I was in my twenties and met Shia Le Beouf (the actor from the latest Indiana Jones and Transformers). That was a good dream. Otherwise the bad and very vivid and crazy dreams far outweigh the occassional good one. They leave me kind of confused in the morning trying to decipher what actually happened. That is probably why my memory is so unreliable and haphazard.
I find that I take after my mom in this as well as many other things. So for me it seems hereditary.
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have had amazing success with supplemental Melatonin and Tryptophan. My body clock was beyond confused and I did not sleep deeply when I slept until I started with Melatonin and 5HTP. Within 3 days, I came off my "vampire" cylce and was clear-headed and functional during daylight hours. My depth of sleep improved and I know experience R.E.M. sleep instead of just shallow sleep. My IBS-D benefits from the deep/complete sleep/rest cycle and I have no ill effects to note. My medical doctor recommended these supplements for me, incidentally. Truly, I had not slept in years until I gave them a shot. When I skip them for a few nights, I fall hard into the old cycle of sleeplessness and stress as a result of sleeplessness. Honestly, regular deep sleep takes a huge chunk of stress off and makes IBS so much easier to manage. Stress gives me D and so sleep is part of the whole equation.
If you're chronically sleep-deprived and stressed as a result, I urge you to give Melatonin and Tryptophan a shot if it is supported by your family doctor.
They took KavaKava off the market in Canada a few years ago, so I can't vouch for it. I can't drink camomile tea due to horrendous hayfever and allergies. I've tried prescription sleeping pills but the backlash hang-over type feeling interfered with the safe operation of motor vehicles for me. I like mental clarity!
Kate/Wind
IBS-D. Stable.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Posts
