IBS-C Gas Bloating Probiotics Success Story
#321291 - 12/29/07 06:29 AM
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I suffer from IBS-C with terrible gas and bloating. I feel like I have tried every possible diet and every possible supplement, all to no avail. I have tried lot so of different probiotics too, but never experienced any real improvement. Recently someone on another forum who suffers from colitis and severe D told me that she had been helped tremendously by taking a probiotic called VLS#3. It is really expensive so I thought twice about wasting my money yet again. But I was so desperate and so miserable I felt that I didn't have much to lose. I have been taking it for about 2 weeks now. The gas and bloating were almost completely gone after the first 3 days. And slowly I feel the C is getting much better as well. I had a normal complete movement this morning. I had almost forgotten what that felt like. I know that a supplement that costs 75.00 a month may be impossible for some people to afford. But if you have tried everything else and haven't found a solution it could be worth a try.
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Thank you for the information - wow $75 YIKES, but it's a small price to pay when you actually get some relief. Just out of curiousty, had you ever tried Ultima? I just spoke with a gal at our co-op and she recommends that for the first month then to move on to Natures Way Reuteri.
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Nope I haven't tried Ultima. The VSL#3 has a much higher organism count than most probiotics (450 billion-that is 100 times more than some supplements). It comes shipped in cold packs and must be refrigerated. I am sure there are other good probiotics out there. One sign of quality is refrigeration which preserves viability.
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Have you ever had a fecal fat test? If not, you definitely should! While doing some research on probiotics for you, I ran into some very helpful information for myself... I had the 24 hour fecal fat test done several months ago. The level of fat in my stool was double that of a normal person - this finding was an indicator of the following:
1. Celiac - both the blood test and endoscopy ruled this out.
2. pancreas insufficiency - CAT scan ruled this out.
3. Chron's - colonoscopy ruled out the possibility of this in my large bowel, but the camera pill will rule out the possibility in my small bowel (which I'm scheduled for next month)
4. Infection, Giardia, small bowel overgrowth (SIBO) - I was tested for giardia but not SIBO. I didn't even ask my doc about SIBO because the way he wrote it down, I thought these 3 were all one in the same - It wasn't until researching for you tonight that I ran across info on this. So, I'm now very angry with my doc (but that's ok b/c I had already planned on firing him).
Anyway, typical symptoms of SIBO are: excess gas, bloating, diarrhea and abdominal pain. But, they do say that a small number of people have chronic constipation.
Also, very interesting note (here's a quote from the link below):
"There is a striking similarity between the symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome and SIBO. It has been theorized that SIBO may be responsible for the symptoms of at least some patients with irritable bowel syndrome. The estimates run as high as 50% of patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Support for the SIBO theory of IBS comes from the observation that many patients with irritable bowel syndrome are found to have an abnormal hydrogen breath test, and some patients with irritable bowel syndrome have improvement of their symptoms after treatment with antibiotics".
And another quote:
"The most popular theory is that patients with irritable bowel syndrome have a subtle abnormality in the function of their intestinal muscles that allows SIBO to occur."
It may be worth checking out...
http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intestinal_bacterial_overgrowth/article.htm
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Yep! I have indeed heard of SIBO. I have been tested for celiac (negative) and had a sigmoidoscopy (negative). I have a hunch that my problems are indeed related to some kind of bacterial overgrowth/imbalance. My first clue came when I was on mega-doses of a powerful antibiotic for a sinus infection. Mysteriously, when I was on the drugs, all IBS symptoms disappeared as if by magic. I don't believe that treating this condition with drugs is the answer however. And I no longer engage in seeking help from the medical community. I do believe it is possible to restore balanced flora naturally, without drugs. I will think long and hard before EVER taking a prescription drug again. BTW, Couldn't high fecal fat levels be indicative of a gallbladder problem?
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Yes, it could but my gallbladder checked out fine also. Here's something very interesting... I was referred to another GI doc by my current GI doc b/c my GI doesn't do the camera pills. Well, I decided that before I spend another dime on a doc, I will first interview him/her.. So I called and chatted with the new GI's nurse. Her first question was what are your symptoms. She immediately said you probably need probiotics and xifaxan - Not knowing anything about SIBO, I just continued on with the conversation. At some point, I told her that I am just not comfortable with the single diagnosis of IBS b/c IBS is NOT supposed to lead to any other physical problems so I am concerned about the fat test and the fact that I've had a polyp removed. She said "indeed, it sounds like there's something going on in your small intestine". What I can't understand is why my GI whom I've been seeing all year, who has run every test known to man, has not done this fairly simple test???? I'm so frustrated right now I could scream!! I'm calling the new GI first thing Monday and see if I can get in for the breath test - After reading up on SIBO, this is the only thing that has made any sense to me through all of this. I did find another link that you may find helpful (Heather's book is even mentioned here).
http://www.irritable-bowel-syndrome.ws/sibo-breath-test.htm
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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SIBO and IBS
#321331 - 12/30/07 06:44 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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There have been a lot of posting about SIBO and IBS on the message board. You may want to do a search of the board and see what others have reported. Also here is a link to a recent article for clinicians Uninvited Guests: The Impact of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth on Nutritional Status
However, a recent study of SIBO and IBS concluded "The data do not support an important role for SIBO according to commonly used clinical definitions, in IBS. However, mildly increased counts of small-bowel bacteria seem to be more common in IBS, and needs further investigation. Motility alterations could not reliably predict altered small-bowel bacterial flora."
Also the value of the latulose breath test for detecting SIBO is in question. Another recent study concluded "While interest in small bowel bacterial overgrowth in IBS continues, the utility and specificity of lactulose hydrogen breath testing is yet again called into question. Methane appears to slow intestinal transit and constipation appears more common among methane-positive patients."
In summary the role of SIBO in IBS is controversial and there is little substantive evidence yet to show it plays a significant role in IBS. However, a link has been shown between individuals with fructose malabsorption and possible SIBO. You can read about in this article
Good luck 
References
Bratten, J. R. and M. P. Jones, 2007: Small intestinal motility. Current Opinion in Gastroenterology, 23, 127-133.
Posserud, I., P. O. Stotzer, E. S. Bjornsson, H. Abrahamsson, and M. Simren, 2007: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Gut, 56, 802-808.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Thanks Syl, but neither of the pdf links you posted will open.. I tried over and over again, it appears that Virginia needs to update their servers! I did search the posts and found another pdf link you posted regarding fructose malabsorption.
Anyway, this is so frustrating, you site a study that shows little conclusive evidence of the link, I site another study that shows significant evidence of a link. Bottom line for me is, I don't care if there is a link or not - all I care about is do I have it and if so I want treatment.
I'm certainly not going to get too hung up on scientific evidence when I'm dealing with an illness/syndrome that has absolutely NO scientific diagnosis! The lack of scientific evidence only indicates to me that we lack the tests to identify the cause. When they can't "see" a problem, what does that leave? BACTERIA!!!
The more I learn about all of this, the more frustrated I become... I completely change my diet (following Heather's diet for 3 weeks now), my D is much better but my G is much worse and I'm starting to experience some C. So I make sure to eat apples (either applesauce or peeled) every day to keep things moving and now I'm hearing that may be a problem, not to mention all the pasta, rice, potatoes that I've been choking down dry. I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't!! Like PUD said in an earlier thread - "what does this leave us chicken and fish"?
Sorry, I'm not frustrated with you, I'm just frustrated with the condition and the lack of medical attention!!
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Sorry, Gigi - I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread and turn your success story into a blathering of frustration.. Thanks for the post, I'm definitely going to check out the VLS#3. I'll try the ultima first though (because I need relief quick and I can get it at our local co-op) It is refrigerated so I'm hoping it will do the trick!
Will you continue to use the VLS#3? Or will you just take it for a month then go a maintenance type probiotic? I hope this continues to work for you - and I'd love to hear how it's going!
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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for Gigi
#321341 - 12/30/07 02:25 PM
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Zara
Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883
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Gigi, how much are you taking per day? I checked out their website and it said that for IBS they recommned 0.5-1 packet per day. That's still so much more bacteria then in the regular probiotics I've been taking so far  . So if we could get away with 30 packets for 2 months it wouldn't be as pricey!
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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant
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Hmmmm - the links are working fine now. It might have been a hiccup on the network or something .
Oh - I understand your frustration. I have spent more then 35 years figuring out my management plan. Heather's diet gave me a valuable clue about using the ratio of IF to SF to manage some of my symptoms.
You may be right. Bacteria may play a significant role in IBS but perhaps not the bacteria associated with SIBO. SIBO is associated with bad bacteria in the small intestine. IBS may be concerned more the 300-400 species of good bacteria that live in the large bowel whose population may have been disturbed by something such as an infection.
There is lots of evidence to show that what you eat can change the bacterial flora in your colon (e.g. prebiotics and probiotics). For example, most IBS suffers report benefits from SFS but only some IBS-C suffers report benefits from IF. And some people report problems with some SFS while others report difficulties with different ones. The thing they all have in common is that SF and IF along with other carbohydrates like fructose and sugar alcohols (e.g. sorbitol) can pass mostly undigested to the colon where they act as food for colonic bacteria. These bacteria ferment the undigested food and produce by-products such as SCFA and gases that can change GI motility.
It is difficult to figure out how to modify your diet to manage your symptoms with the lack of good professional guidance. Heather's EFI guidelines are a great place to start. Hopefully, the next generation of GI docs will be better informed about the role of diet in managing IBS than the current one.
Good luck
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Quote:
Hopefully, the next generation of GI docs will be better informed about the role of diet in managing IBS than the current one.
I agree, perhaps they could start by acknowledging it 
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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant
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Quote:
Quote:
Hopefully, the next generation of GI docs will be better informed about the role of diet in managing IBS than the current one.
I agree, perhaps they could start by acknowledging it
You nailed it Zara!!! I would love to go sit in my GIs office one day when I have really foul gas and just follow him around all day - I guarantee, he'd take me serious in under 1 hour!
Syl, I got the pdfs downloaded today - thanks for sharing... I'll have to ask my new GI doc to do the breath tests for fructose as well as SIBO - but in the meantime, I just got a probiotic to the tune of $90 for 30 days. Sure hope it does some good
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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CJ,
Hi. I've been reading this thread & oh I'm so frustrated and down...
My Doc never got back to me after my insurance decided they won't cover the camera pill test...
Am I understanding correctly that VSL#3 is a product I should consider if I'm suffering from gas like never before? My D and cramps are gone but I'm left with bad G and I'm losing all hope and don't know where to turn. I've been taking Heather's Soluble Fiber powder 2 Tblsp. daily and I'm off all wheat, dairy and sugar. Is the VSL#3 better than Heather's SF?
Any knowledge on this subject?
Thanks much.
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Hi! I have been taking one packet per day. I intend to give it two months at that dose and then re-evaluate. Then I might try cutting down to half a packet a day. It is kind of on the pricey side for me too but it also seems to help when nothing else has.
Best of luck to you.
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I am not sure. I am taking it day by day. I am trying not to get too hopeful because in the past I have tried things that worked for awhile and then would eventually stop working.
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Probiotics
#321414 - 01/01/08 04:33 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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Two probiotics have been shown to assist in the management of IBS Align and VSL#3.
A single dose of VSL#3 contains 450 billion cells composed of three strains of Bifidobacterium (B. longum, B. infantis and B. breve); four strains of Lactobacillus (L. acidophilus, L. casei, L. bulgaricus and L. plantarum); and one strain of Streptococcus (S. salivarius subspecies thermophilus). A clinical trial on 25 IBS-D suffers showed that it provided some relief for bloating. It had no effect on other individual symptoms such as abdominal pain, gas and urgency.
The single probiotic bacteria species - Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 - found in Align was given to 362 IBS-D and IBS-C primary care patients. It was found that at the level of 100 million cells there was significant relief from many of the symptoms including pain, discomfort and bowel habits. This particular bacteria has been shown to have anti-inflammatory effects too. Align contains 1 billion of these cells.
I have been considering trying Align because it appears to be more effective.
References
Whorwell, P. J., et. al 2006: Efficacy of an Encapsulated Probiotic Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 in Women with Irritable Bowel Syndrome. The American Journal of Gastroenterology, 101, 1581-1590.
Kim, H. J., wt. al., 2005: A randomized controlled trial of a probiotic combination VSL# 3 and placebo in irritable bowel syndrome with bloating. Neurogastroenterology & Motility, 17, 687-696.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Gigi,
Are you taking this with Heather Acacia? I have a sample in my fridge from months a go that a (one of many GI I went to this year) GI gave me. I never tried it because of the price of up keep but if it really helps well then I might consider using it.
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IBS-C gas, bloating and acid reflux
Babies is the plan for 2008!!Hope this IBS cooperates.
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ooh, Align would definitely be the cheaper way to go....and the clinical trials also included C folks. Multiple symptom relief too. I don't know which, if any, to try now. 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Have you considered that the Acacia could be causing the gas? Is the gas worse than before you started the Acacia?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I was always wondering if the VSL would provide any relief for those of us with C. I have always seen it advertised for D relief.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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When I used to take acacia it gave me gas. Not as bad as psyllium (  ) but still pretty bad.
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No. I can't do the acacia. It causes gas for me and never seemed to help anyway. I think people who have IBS-D respond better to it. I am firmly in the C camp and in some ways acacia only made things worse for me. Right now I am taking only VSL#3 and a small amount of magnesium supplement and have been doing better than I have in a long time. I am careful with my diet but I am not into Heather's diet. I am intolerant of starches and grains.
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I looked at Align too but it has so many chemical additives, including sodium caseinate. I have severe allergies to casein so I don't want that! The VSL#3 doesn't have all these additives.
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Quote:
CJ,
Hi. I've been reading this thread & oh I'm so frustrated and down...
My Doc never got back to me after my insurance decided they won't cover the camera pill test...
Am I understanding correctly that VSL#3 is a product I should consider if I'm suffering from gas like never before? My D and cramps are gone but I'm left with bad G and I'm losing all hope and don't know where to turn. I've been taking Heather's Soluble Fiber powder 2 Tblsp. daily and I'm off all wheat, dairy and sugar. Is the VSL#3 better than Heather's SF?
Any knowledge on this subject?
Thanks much.
I agree with some of the others that the acacia fiber might be contributing to the gas - I've been following Heather's diet exclusively for over 4 weeks and taking the acacia for a little over 2 weeks. Since starting the acacia, the gas is out of this world, I think it's also affecting my GERD as I'm burping alot and getting more heartburn - like you, my D is sooo much better!! I was taking 1/2 tsp acacia twice a day then increased to 1 tsp twice a day, but now I'm going back down to 1/2 tsp twice a day and see how it goes, if the gas continues then I'll discontinue the use altogether.
I also started taking a probiotic just yesterday it's called Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic. It has 70 billion viable cells and you take it 3 times per day for the first month (that totals up to $90.00 for the first month). I've only taken 2 pills so far and my gas is much better today but it's just too soon to tell.
I've also been listening to the hynotherapy CDS (just got them yesterday), but so far I absolutely love them - whether they work or not, they sure are relaxing!!!
I know I'm probably making too many changes at one time - so if I do get relief, I'm not going to know what to attribute it to, but I have been in excruiating pain for 10 months solid and I just need some relief NOW!!
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Gigi, have you noticed a really warm feeling in your gut since you've been taking the probiotic? I just started mine yesterday and today I'm getting this warm feeling - Not an uncomfortable heat at all, it's actually kind of a calm warmth.
Thanks and hope you're still doing great with it!
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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CJ, thanks so much for responding.
I purchased the VSL#3 but cancelled my purchase as I kept reading more on the subject and there seems to be such controversy among users. I feel like I need someone to monitor with me what's happening to me as I think I'm losing my mind trying to figure this thing out alone. I hope to find a nutritionist who has knowledge in this area. And I'm hoping together we can lick this sucker!
I too started the hypnosis cds but never got past 2 weeks as things got hectic in my life. I would start again, but I don't have much faith in it. It's nice and relaxing, but I don't see it changing my digestive system all that much.
That's the thing with this "nobody knows what the h-- to do for us" situation. I find that I'm trying so many things at once and then when all hell breaks loose I have no clue where it came from. But I do wish you well and lots of luck with the new products. I'd love to hear updates from you re: Udo and if I come upon something/someone that helps me I'll keep you posted too.
SarahT
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You wrote: Have you considered that the Acacia could be causing the gas? Is the gas worse than before you started the Acacia?
Jordy,
If you were asking me this question...I'm starting to consider this a strong possibility and yes I've never had gas the way I have now but I fear to stop taking it because my D has disappeared since I started on Acacia, however I still go too often but at least it's not as urgent and the consistency is much better.
I'm hoping to start on a probiotic which a friend of mine is recommending. I don't know the name yet but I do know that it needs refrigeration and that its supposed to be extremely gentle on the tummy. When I have more info I will post it and I'll keep you guys posted on my success. Because from here on it has to be ONLY success, right guys?!!!!
Happy and IBS FREE NEW YEAR to everyone!!
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Quote:
I feel like I need someone to monitor with me what's happening to me as I think I'm losing my mind trying to figure this thing out alone
You have the same thoughts as I. 
Quote:
"nobody knows what the h-- to do for us" situation. I find that I'm trying so many things at once and then when all hell breaks loose I have no clue where it came from
I empathize with this also. I have no idea what helps (if anything) and what hurts. I feel dizzy...playing this guessing game. I don't know what to take and what to stop and what to eat and what to avoid. Nobody can give me answers. Oh, how I wish I could figure just a piece of this out. I can't even figure out if SFS helps or hurts me...after years of dealing with this, I still have no clue about any of it.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Yes, I was asking you, Sarah. I am in the same situation, I think. Why can't something work without causing another symtpom to worsen???
Keep me posted on the probiotic you are going to try. I'll try anything new. Do you remember the name of it? Is it from Udo? I just bought one of their versions....I think it was this one. Udo's Choice. I wonder if a different one of his would have been a better choice. I haven't tried this one yet. I'm afraid to do anything right now.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Or is it just a waste of money? I tested fine on the SIBO test.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I don't know of anyone using probiotics for SIBO. This problem is usually tackled with antibiotics. I do probiotics are used for IBS, Crohn's (with questionable results) and other GI problems.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Jordy,
Good Morning! "sigh..." It's a tough road but we'll get through it. I know.
I don't know the name yet. I'm waiting to hear back from my friend. I should know by this weekend and I'll let you know the name, but of course, until I try it, who knows?
So this morning I decided not to take my tablespoon of Acacia. I have no gas this morning (might just be a coincidence, of course)but I already had 2 BMs and the 2nd about 15 minutes ago I didn't feel like I finished (hate that!!!!! story of my life)But I'm not losing hope or ambition yet. promise. I had a half glass of Smart Water this morning and a perfect banana at 10:30 and now an hour later I'm eating rice cake(whole grain rice) with almond butter. By the way, this almond butter is pure almonds, no other ingredients and since I'm off sugar and wheat this tastes so good, I lick my fingers like I'm eating candy or something yummy. It's amazing how many tastes there are in natural foods when we aren't eating junk! The brand is Hadar, it's a kosher product. If it's not available at your local stores you might want to google it and see if you can purchase it on line. Or maybe there are non-kosher almond butters out there, I just don't know. I'm debating if I should chuck acacia completely or wean myself off. I'll decide tonight. one thing at a time, right?
Hope you have a good day.
SarahT
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Jordy,
I'm going to find me a coach, if not just a friend who will work with me. But I prefer someone I will pay. I will keep you posted as we muddle through things and when I'm successful you might want to do the same for yourself. You know what i was thinking? People hire trainers for workout, for losing weight, for their financial stuff you name it and there is a coach out there. But the key is to find someone that is very knowledgeable in this area. I know it's a tough one but I'm going to make it happen. I really don't want to do this on my own anymore.
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No I really didn't. I just noticed a reduction in gas of a certain type. Before taking the probiotic I would gradually feel more bloated and full of gas as the day progressed. By the end of the day I would be in pure misery. I still have "normal" flatulence and that seems to depend on what I have been eating. But I have noticed a dramatic change in the bloating problem. The constipation is still an issue though.
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Quote:
I'm going to find me a coach, if not just a friend who will work with me. But I prefer someone I will pay.
Where do you even begin to look for someone? What type of person would do this and where would we find them? 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I don't know what to tell you about the Acacia,sorry. I forget you are D and I am C.
I am so sorry you are suffering....but so grateful not to be going through all this alone.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I'm asking friends. I'll see where it gets me. Ill let you know.
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Jordy,
I'm D, but I've been G for the past while, since D went away. It seems to me IBSers whether D or C, after on Heather's diet, end up with similar symptoms, such as G. I don't have bloating though, which seems to be prevalant with Cs. I'm pretty convinced the Acacia is causing my G. I just hope & pray I dont go back to D after eliminating Acacia completely.
yikes!!
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Quote:
I don't know of anyone using probiotics for SIBO. This problem is usually tackled with antibiotics. I do probiotics are used for IBS, Crohn's and other GI problems.
The typical treatment of SIBO is antibiotics AND probiotics - I've read this in several medical journals (some of which are included in links I posted earlier in this same thread).
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Jordy,
I'm D, but I've been G for the past while, since D went away. It seems to me IBSers whether D or C, after on Heather's diet, end up with similar symptoms, such as G. I don't have bloating though, which seems to be prevalant with Cs. I'm pretty convinced the Acacia is causing my G. I just hope & pray I dont go back to D after eliminating Acacia completely.
yikes!!
I'm a D also - not the really watery kind that just squirts on out, but I would have 8 BM in 2 hours. After starting Heather's diet, I started gravitating toward C (I think it was the bananas b/c since I've omitted bananas I'm going regulary. I did have 4 BM today, but I've also been taking a probiotic for 3 days now so my guess is that is the cause - which I'm fine with, b/c I completely expected some changes the first week on probiotic (if I didn't see changes, I'd think it's not working). When I start going too much (like today), I drink a cup of Heather's peppermint tea and that really settles things down - Have you tried that? Both of the teas seem to be helping me alot. Sometimes the peppermint will give me some gas and bloating, but I just follow up with a cup of fennel and that takes care of it. So, depending on the day and how things are going, I flip flop back and forth between the 2 teas and it seems to be helping!
The probiotic I'm taking is Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus. It is recommended that you take 3 pills per day for the first month to get things under control then reduce to 1 pill per day. So, it's kind of spendy for the first month ($30 for 30 pills - $90 for the first month supply). But the way I see it is, I've already spent thousands and thousands on tests etc. so what's another $90... Like I said, I'm only on day 3 and I'm beginning to see noticeable differences.
I've not been tested for SIBO yet (that will happen on the 18th),but I'm certain that is what I've got b/c of the following cite from Practical Gastroenterology - July 2003 "One of the most common clinical manifestations of SIBO is chronic diarrhea secondary to fat maldigestion and malabsorption". I have had a 24 hour fecal fat test which came back abnormal - I have twice the normal amount of fat in my stools. Also, the small intestine is not supposed to produce very much gas at all - when I had my small bowel follow through, the doc pointed out gas all over the place in my small intestine. So, all signs are pointing to SIBO for me!
Jordy, I know you said you tested negative for SIBO, but it's not uncommon for the breath test to give a false negative - I would recommend that you and Sarah ask your docs to perform the 24 hour fecal fat test to see if you have a fat malabsorption (if you haven't already had this).
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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I presume you are referring to statements such as "The two most common treatments for SIBO among patients with IBS are oral antibiotics and probiotics". The assumption is an IBS sufferer also has SIBO. The antibiotics are for the SIBO and the probiotics I believe are targeted more to the IBS. I don't recall reading about anyone having conventional SIBO as a result of surgery or disease such as pancreatitis being treated with probiotics. Also generally speaking you don't want many bacteria in your small intestine anyway. However, I won't be surprized if someone somewhere is doing this kind of research
PS - I see your signature in this posting. I wonder how I missed in the previous one
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
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CJ, thank you for this info. I will call my doc today (new one, left my old one)-not that I expect to get him on the phone or hear back from him very soon. I really detest doctors. But that's another story.
So is the remedy for fat malabsorption probiotics?
I, too, have been drinking Heather's peppermint & fennel teas daily although this past week I've been forgetting to drink them. I never considered the possibility that the peppermint would be causing my gas, but I'll pay close attention now. I mix them for the taste, but maybe I should drink them separately for a while, to test my reaction to each...mm...
I'm on day 1 1/2 of no Acacia. I'm waiting to see what happens re: gas and BMs all day. I'm just like you, never ending BMs.
again thanks so much.
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CJ, thank you for this info. I will call my doc today (new one, left my old one)-not that I expect to get him on the phone or hear back from him very soon. I really detest doctors. But that's another story.
So is the remedy for fat malabsorption probiotics?
I, too, have been drinking Heather's peppermint & fennel teas daily although this past week I've been forgetting to drink them. I never considered the possibility that the peppermint would be causing my gas, but I'll pay close attention now. I mix them for the taste, but maybe I should drink them separately for a while, to test my reaction to each...mm...
I'm on day 1 1/2 of no Acacia. I'm waiting to see what happens re: gas and BMs all day. I'm just like you, never ending BMs.
again thanks so much.
I fired my doc also and will be seeing a new one in 2 weeks (I've interviewed his nurse and this one sounds much more promising). According to the research I've done, the typical treatment for SIBO is antibotics (in the case of D, they typically prescribe Xifaxan) and probiotics. The antibiotic is to kill the large bowel bacteria that has made it's way to the small bowel and the probiotic is to restore the good bacteria that the antibiotic kills off. Probiotics can also win over the bad bacteria and basically forcing it out. But, sometimes probiotics alone will take care of the problem and there is less concern of long-term problems with probiotics versus antibiotics. I'm trying probiotics for a couple of months to see if that helps out, then I'll go from there - right now I'm very hesitant to take antibiotics that may make things much worse... I'm currently on day 4 of the probiotic and doing Sooo much better - I did have 4 BM again today(but they were NOT the urgent kind I typically have), and 4 is much better than 8 and better than 0. I think this will taper off after I'm on it for awhile.
I'm also on day 1/2 with no acacia - I had very little flatulence today, so I'm pretty sure that was the cause. I wonder if acacia is designed more for people with C not D?
Here's one link to some useful information:
http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intestinal_bacterial_overgrowth/page6.htm
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Sarah, here's another good site on SIBO (I would definitely check this one out):
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/healthconditionsdisease/a/overgrowth.htm
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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I presume you are referring to statements such as "The two most common treatments for SIBO among patients with IBS are oral antibiotics and probiotics". The assumption is an IBS sufferer also has SIBO. The antibiotics are for the SIBO and the probiotics I believe are targeted more to the IBS. I don't recall reading about anyone having conventional SIBO as a result of surgery or disease such as pancreatitis being treated with probiotics. Also generally speaking you don't want many bacteria in your small intestine anyway. However, I won't be surprized if someone somewhere is doing this kind of research
PS - I see your signature in this posting. I wonder how I missed in the previous one
I think you're missing the big piture here Syl. Studies are showing that many people who have SIBO have been MISDIAGNOSED with IBS... Here is some info from http://altmedicine.about.com/od/healthconditionsdisease/a/overgrowth.htm
"Instead, people with chronic digestive problems such as gas, bloating, diarrhea, and/or constipation are often told they have irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) when the underlying problem is actually small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Given that IBS is the number one gastrointestinal diagnosis, bacterial overgrowth could be greatly underdiagnosed".
And here are the symptoms of SIBO:
abdominal bloating and gas after meals
pain
constipation
chronic loose stools or diarrhea - studies have found 48% to 67% of people with chronic diarrhea had bacterial overgrowth.
soft, foul-smelling stools that stick to the bowl
fatigue - megaloblastic anemia due to vitamin B12 malabsorption
depression
nutritional deficiency despite taking supplements
weight loss
abdominal pain
mucus in stools
bloating worse with carbs, fiber, and sugar
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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While a few studies and web-based news reports/articles make strong claims for the role of SIBO in IBS most recent research articles dispute the claim and the validity of the lactulose breath test as well. For example, the recently published articles listed below conclude:
Quote:
1. The data do not support an important role for SIBO according to commonly used clinical definitions, in IBS. However, mildly increased counts of small-bowel bacteria seem to be more common in IBS, and needs further investigation. Motility alterations could not reliably predict altered small-bowel bacterial flora.
2. Some propose that bacterial overgrowth is a common causative factor in the pathogenesis of symptoms in IBS; others point to evidence suggesting that the cause stems from more subtle qualitative changes in the colonic flora. Neither hypothesis has been confirmed, but the likelihood now seems remote that bacterial overgrowth will prove to be a major factor in what will eventually be defined as IBS.
3. In summary, we failed to detect a significant association between SIBO and IBS using either the LHBT (lactulost breath test) or the more specific 14C-D-xylose breath test. Our results suggest that studies employing the LHBT to diagnosis SIBO require further validation of the applied criteria. Additional studies are needed to clarify whether patients in different geographical locations have significant differing bacterial flora and whether these differences might be important in the expression of human illness.
If you want a list of research references from reputable journals that you can read I would be happy to provide them to you. Also, check back through the posting on this web site and see how many people have been tested for SIBO and either tested negative or had no/negative results with SIBO treatment. Anyway - eventually, the research will make things clearer
Good luck with your SIBO tests. Tells us how it goes.
Reference
Posserud, I., P. O. Stotzer, E. S. Bjornsson, H. Abrahamsson, and M. Simren, 2007: Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. Gut, 56, 802-808
Quigley, E. M. M., 2007: Bacteria: A New Player in Gastrointestinal Motility Disorders--Infections, Bacterial Overgrowth, and Probiotics. Gastroenterology Clinics of North America Gastrointestinal Motility Disorders, 36, 735-748.
Walters, B. and S. J. Vanner, 2005: Detection of Bacterial Overgrowth in IBS Using the Lactulose H2 Breath Test: Comparison with 14C-d-Xylose and Healthy Controls. The American Journal of Gastroenterology, 100, 1566-1570.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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So, you're not taking Acacia at all anymore?
Please keep us updated on the probiotic!  I bought Udo's Choice, but not the same one as you.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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After starting Heather's diet, I started gravitating toward C (I think it was the bananas b/c since I've omitted bananas I'm going regulary.
What is it about bananas that cause C for some people, but not others?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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My mom says there binding..like rice
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IBS-C gas, bloating and acid reflux
Babies is the plan for 2008!!Hope this IBS cooperates.
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I don't know it's very strange because I'm definitely a D person, but since I've omitted bananas and acacia, I'm going regularly. It could be just coincidence and maybe I'm getting regular because of the probiotic. Maybe I'll try a banana again after I've been stable for a month - I'll keep you posted. For now I'm staying away from both acacia and bananas.
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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Well, I can only speak for myself. But a single fact remains that IBS is ONLY supposed to be the resulting diagnosis when NOTHING else is found to be abnormal. Since I've had 2 abnormal results: 1. Twice the normal amount of fat in my stool 2. Colon polyps, I do not believe my diagnosis is just IBS. So, I am trying to encourage others who may not be comfortable with their diagnosis to make sure that they have had ALL of the tests. I have a post regarding the 24 hour fecal fat test and colon polyps and not one person has responded to that which makes me wonder if anyone is even getting this test performed. If not, I believe it is very important that they do because fat malabsorption is the 2nd leading manifestation (2nd to chronic D) of SIBO. As I stated before - I do not care what the relationship is between SIBO and IBS because there is nothing to determine IBS other than negative results for everything else!
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Jeanette IBS-D, then switched to IBS-A, now stable with Udo's Choice Super Bifido Plus Probiotic
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