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IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center
      #318199 - 11/08/07 06:29 AM
Skitch

Reged: 11/06/07
Posts: 5


Hello,

I am new to this message board. It is a great place to get ideas and share information. I have IBS-D which started out as C, then A, now mostly D over a 7 year progression. Have gone through the battery of tests. I have been reading the posts about drugs. IBS-Ders what do you consider the most effective drug?

Does anyone have any recommends for Dr.'s in St. Louis, MO?

Also, has anyone been to this place in Seattle, WA or know anyone who has gone?

http://www.ibstreatmentcenter.com/da.htm

Heather, if you see this post maybe you could shed some light. I think you live in Seattle if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks.

Skitch
St. Louis, MO

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #318205 - 11/08/07 07:09 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

I would be cautious about the IBS Healing Center in Seattle. It looks like a store front for questionable tests and the results are used to recommend supplements. For example, they claim that a more accurate way to detect most food allergies is through ELISA (ee-LIE-za) testing of the blood. At Quack Watch they say "Although the ELISA/ACT test can assess the levels of certain immune responses, these are not necessarily related to allergy and have nothing whatsoever to do with a person's need for supplements". It is best to stick with tests recommended by you GP or GI doc.

Drugs are not neccesarily the answer for all IBS suffers. Generally speaking they only help with the management of symptoms; they are not a cure. Again speak to your doctor about the need for drugs.

Have you read Heather's books and tried her Eating for IBS diet ?

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #320622 - 12/13/07 02:53 PM
Skitch

Reged: 11/06/07
Posts: 5


Yes. I have read Heather's book and tried her diet. I am having a hard time with so much starch. I have tried the Tummy Fibers, but still seem to have problems. I need to use fiber that provides bulking. I am having a hard time figuring out the balance and I keep gaining weight as a result. Help.

Thank you for your comments on the IBS Treatment Center.

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #322171 - 01/11/08 05:21 AM
lorilea

Reged: 09/24/05
Posts: 11
Loc: monroe, mi

I have taken my son to the IBS Treatment Center, and we have had great response. If your IBS symptoms are due to gluten or other food intolerances, then you need to find this out. The labs Dr. Wangen uses are impeccable in their standards. Heather's diet and protocol are excellent, but for my son, who had bacteria (now gone) and gluten/dairy intolerance, the diet couldn't help.
-Laurie

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #329888 - 05/16/08 08:31 PM
ivy

Reged: 03/31/04
Posts: 38


I traveled across the country to go to the IBS Treatment Center after 11 years of frustration with IBS-A. Dr. Wangen's lab tests found a bacterial imbalance that was addressed with a couple weeks of antibiotics and probiotics. Local labs hadn't identified the bacteria in prior tests. My gut is still sensitive, but it's so much better than it was before. I know everyone is different and different combinations of things work for each of us. I still take peppermint capsules and follow many of the tips I've learned from all of you. I want to give back by sharing this info.

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #329893 - 05/17/08 08:29 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

The IBS Treatment center believes IBS is just "any gi symptoms" and not a distint entity with subgroups. They are an alternative lab who believes IBS is caused by celiac, bacteria, food allergies ect.. They do not follow the diagnoses of IBS or the current state of information on IBS from the actual researchers and they do not do research themselves on IBS.

There is no evidence for IBS being caused by foods or bacteria and IBS IS NOT celiac.

Foods and bacteria can trigger the symptoms as well as many things that can trigger the symptoms.

An employee from there has continually posted bad IBS information to the IBS self help group.

Some of the things they might do can actually be harmful to IBSers. For example giving the antibiotics for IBS on there interpretation of results. Antibiotics can also mess people with IBS up. Short term it may relieve gas production and hence gas pains, but that is not something you can do forever for one.

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=84194&hl=betterthrough+science

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=87835&hl=betterthrough+science

Part of how they might help is the time they spend with someone.

So here with have an IBS treatment center that doesn't seem to understand the diagnoses of IBS itself and mentions things that are NOT IBS as IBS. go figure.

You also might want to read this on various testing.

http://www.allergy.org.au:80/pospapers/unorthodox.htm

Personally I believe, there are quite a few alternative doctors and websites that promote extremely bad information on IBS and this is a serious problem.

Ivy, what bacteria imbalance? A certain bacteria you had or just general?

Lorilea,

"If your IBS symptoms are due to gluten or other food intolerances"

IBS IS NOT caused by gluten intolerence or food intolerences.

"bacteria (now gone)"

What bacteria and whats' gone and how did they achieve it?





--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #329894 - 05/17/08 08:38 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

One more where you might also want to read the whole thread.

"like celiac disease, food allergies, infections and parasites. If you test for these things, and find one or more, then you know what to treat, and you can end the IBS. "


None of the above causes are the "cause" of IBS symptoms. All of the above are seperate entities and are ruled out to make an IBS diagnoses in the first place.

IBS is NOT every gi symptom.

Postinfectious Irritable Bowel Syndrome -- A Real and Distinct Entity

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/562539

Diagnosis of Irritable Bowel Syndrome
from Medscape General Medicine [TM]

The Clinical Presentation of IBS
The diagnosis of IBS is determined by certain symptom clusters that "breed true" as a distinct clinical entity. The evidence for and features of these specific symptoms are discussed below.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/407962_2

Symptoms of IBS

"There are no physical findings or diagnostic tests that confirm the diagnosis of IBS. Diagnosis involves identifying certain symptoms consistent with the disorder and excluding other medical conditions that may have a similar clinical presentation. The symptom-based Rome diagnostic criteria for IBS emphasize a positive diagnosis rather than exhaustive tests to rule out other diseases. These criteria are based on the presentation of a specific set of symptoms. In addition, a detailed history, a physical examination, and limited diagnostic tests help confirm this diagnosis with a high level of confidence. Extensive testing may be reserved for specific situations."

http://www.aboutibs.org/site/about-ibs/symptoms/

Diagnosis of IBS
An occasional bout with abdominal pain and diarrhea or constipation is an experience nearly everyone has in common. People may view these symptoms as normal, even when they frequently occur. However, chronic and recurring symptoms are not normal. They may signal IBS. A doctor can provide a diagnosis.

The diagnosis of IBS currently is based on a pattern of symptoms that fit established criteria, in conjunction with a detailed history, a physical examination, and tests that rule out other identifiable causes.

However, there are no physical findings or diagnostic tests that confirm the diagnosis of IBS. Therefore, diagnosis of IBS involves identifying certain symptoms consistent with the disorder and excluding other medical conditions that may have a similar clinical presentation.

The first step in making a positive diagnosis of IBS is for a doctor to identify if an individual has the symptoms of IBS. This is best determined by the use of the Rome Criteria, which is a collection of the most common symptoms that typify the disorder. These include:

http://www.aboutibs.org/site/about-ibs/symptoms/diagnosis

Some of the other, because there are many and ones you don't even mention, are other "excluding other medical conditions that may have a similar clinical presentation."

Most of which can and often do cause "red flag" symptoms, such as celiac and infections and parasites. Some cause symptoms that discriminate between IBS and say food allergies, because food allergies don't cause the VERY SPECIFIC clustering of IBS symptoms.

Do Physicians Follow Evidence-Based Guidelines in the Diagnostic Work-up of IBS?
Posted 06/21/2007

Brennan MR Spiegel

IBS is a chronic disorder of gastrointestinal function that is characterized by recurrent abdominal pain and altered bowel habits in the absence of detectable organic disease. Although IBS is extremely prevalent, affecting up to 15% of the general adult population,[1] its diagnosis is not always straightforward for several reasons: IBS has no consistent biological marker, which leaves clinicians to rely on patient symptoms alone to make the diagnosis; the symptoms of IBS are often difficult to quantify objectively; and many organic conditions can masquerade as IBS. The last fact is the most troubling to both clinicians and patients, many of whom are unsettled by the prospect that alternative diagnoses have been overlooked (such as IBD, microscopic colitis, infectious colitis, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, celiac sprue, and colon neoplasia, among many others). This uncertainty often prompts clinicians to approach IBS as a diagnosis of exclusion, by performing tests to exclude alternative etiologies.

Conversely, the Rome III criteria encourage clinicians to make a positive diagnosis of IBS on the basis of validated symptom criteria, and emphasize that IBS is not a diagnosis of exclusion.[1] This recommendation is based on extensive evidence[2] that diagnostic tests generally have a very low yield in patients who fulfil the Rome criteria but who otherwise lack alarm signs or symptoms. Vanner et al. demonstrated that Rome-criteria symptoms have a positive predictive value of 98% for diagnosing IBS.[3] In other words, 98% of patients with Rome-criteria symptoms have IBS, rather than an underlying organic condition, after undergoing standard evaluations.

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=91083

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=96518

There seems to be a nwer blood test out for IBS, however I am still looking in to it some and believ at this point it just helps more on the diagnoses.






--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #329935 - 05/18/08 05:59 PM
ivy

Reged: 03/31/04
Posts: 38


Shawneric, thanks for your response. The bacteria was klebsiella pneumonia. I believe that this bacteria exists in many who are healthy, but an independent lab showed it at "dysbiotic" levels for me. I became ill after a serious case of food poisoning during a time in my life that was stressful and I wasn't in the best of health anyway. It's possible that my situation was not IBS from the beginning; rather, a bacterial issue. But, my symptoms have been very similar to those described by many on this site. I had some relief with the hypnosis, peppermint caps, fennel tea, and the diet, but always felt like I had a "stomach flu." I was pale and tired. Addressing this bacterial issue seems to have helped for me, but I've learned on this site over the years that we are all different and different combinations of things work for different people. Just wanted to share something that seems to have helped me, in case it benefits others.

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #330004 - 05/20/08 08:10 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Ivy, did you talk to your gi doctor about klebsiella pneumonia results as well for there take on it?

This bacteria is a normal gut bacteria. However, an infection of this organism is almost always accompanied by a FEVER. This is also an infection and would have red flags that don't support and IBS diagnoses.

Were you first diagnosed by an actual gi doctor? Did they do blood and stool work when your were seen.

"Klebsiella pneumonia tends to affect people with underlying diseases, such as alcoholism, diabetes and chronic lung disease. Classically, Klebsiella pneumonia causes a severe, rapid-onset illness that often causes areas of destruction in the lung.

Infected persons generally get high fever, chills, flu-like symptoms and a cough productive of a lot of mucous. The mucous (or sputum) that is coughed up is often thick and blood tinged and has been referred to as "currant jelly" sputum due to its appearance.

Mortality in Klebsiella pneumonia is fairly high due to the underlying disease that tends to be present in affected persons. While normal pneumonia frequently resolves without complication, Klebsiella pneumonia more frequently causes lung destruction and pockets of pus in the lung (known as abscesses)."

Be careful whenever you here the term "dysbiosis."

Unorthodox Techniques for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Allergy, Asthma and Immune Disorders

Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy

The following is a summary of the most common unorthodox techniques and practices used to treat or diagnose allergy and asthma. ASCIA strongly advises against the use of these tests for diagnosis or to guide medical treatment.

"Tests for 'dysbiosis'
Use: Diagnosis of food sensitivity / allergy and other non-specific symptoms

Method: Some laboratories offer pathology tests including stool bacterial/chemical analysis, urine metabolite profiles, intestinal permeability assays, trace metal analysis, Candida antibody / cellular proliferation assays and blood / urine fatty acid and amino acid profiles for assessment of "dysbiosis". The concept of 'dysbiosis' states that there is a balance of 'good' versus 'bad' bacteria in the bowel of each person, that imbalances result in disease, and that this can be assessed by various metabolic and bacteriological measurements. Such tests are often used by unorthodox practitioners as a rationale to guide (a) megadose nutritional supplementation; (b) 'probiotic' and/or antibiotic therapy; or (c) dietary modifications. These treatments are promoted as a means of restoring a 'healthy' balance of bowel flora.

Evidence: No evidence

Comment: There is no sound evidence to support the notion of 'dysbiosis' as a cause of allergic diseases or related clinical conditions. The clinical validity of the tests involved or treatments advocated has not been demonstrated."

http://www.allergy.org.au:80/pospapers/unorthodox.htm

Many times alternative centers will use very questionable tests as well as very questionable "interpretations of the tests results themselves."

See I fibnd it hard to believe personally you have had this for 11 years and if it was bacterial like that it never became a serious bacterial infection that that bug could lead too.

Also it sounds like you still have IBS?

Sometimes taking probiotics or even antibiotics can help lessen pain in IBS because of normal bacteria and sensitive nerves lining the gi tract in IBS.

Food poisoning is KNOWN to be a part in some people developing Post Infectious IBS. Was that 11 years ago?







--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #331644 - 06/27/08 06:20 AM
Determination

Reged: 06/16/08
Posts: 4


Are you a doctor or medically trained?

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #331645 - 06/27/08 06:22 AM
Determination

Reged: 06/16/08
Posts: 4


I am considering this treatment center. Anything else, good or bad, or tips, you wish to share? Thank you.

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Re: IBS-D - Dr.'s - The IBS Healing Center new
      #331646 - 06/27/08 06:24 AM
Determination

Reged: 06/16/08
Posts: 4


I would be traveling cross country to this center as well should that be the way I go. I'd appreciate any other thoughts, good, bad or tips, about the center. I have read some truly hostile thoughts about what they do and their methods. Not surprising as people tend to pick their camps and stick to them, so to speak. Thanks.

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IBS Treatment Center: Have you been there? new
      #342478 - 02/22/09 06:41 AM
Karren

Reged: 02/12/09
Posts: 2


I am thinking about going to the IBS Treatment Center in Seattle, and would like to hear from those of you who actually received treatment at the Center and still did NOT get better. In light of your experience with the Center, how would you evaluate the effectiveness of their approach to IBS?

I have tried everything I can, but my bloating and diarrhea don't go away, so I want to find out if it's worth of my time and expense to go to the IBS Treatment Center in Seattle. I live on the East Coast....

Many thanks!

Karren

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