|
|
LOL! Yup, definitely a good catch on your part. 
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
History is littered with anecdotal evidence that has been disproved by scientific research (which is experimental).
I guess as usually we shall continue to disagree 
History is also littered with scientific research that has proven to be incomplete or incorrect with further research. The most horrific example of this is probably thalidomide. In the medical field, ulcers leap to mind. In the health/food field, one thinks of margarine being touted as safer than butter - for decades.
If there was a medical/scientific cure for IBS or a medical/scientific fix for IBS symptoms, that would be one thing. In that case, if Heather was giving advice based on anecdotes and experience that was contrary to the medical/scientific advice, I'd be screaming my head off. (Well, actually, I'd be avoiding this site like the plague.) However, since the medical/scientific approach is a broken reed when it comes to IBS, all IBSers can do is rely on anecdotal/experiential evidence to try to control our symtoms as best we can.
Heather's assertion that her experience and that of other IBSers indicates diary is problematic apart from the lactose is a pretty benign statement and cutting out dairy is a pretty benign action.
I don't know what point you're trying to make by explaing that scientific research is experimental.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
I'm IBS-C. You're asking a good question. It could b e that milk keeps things moving, and would cause D for D-ers? I don't know... I know IF you are lactose intolerant, it causes gas and D...
I was sure you were IBS-C and my intial thought was that the fat content in the milk (as small as it might be) may be having a laxative effect and moving things along. It's just that I get the impression on this site that a lot of you are IBS-D (although I am pretty new here so forgive me if I am wrong) so maybe the rice milk works for most of you for that reason...? I'm probably totally on the wrong lines here but I'm just trying to understand why Jeio can tolerate it and others can't.
Quote:
Are you taking a laxative, btw? Natural Calm or something similar?
Not sure if this was for me...but I have just started to take MagAsorb (Magnesium Citrate). No results yet but I don't know how long it is meant to take...so if anybody can shed come light then that would be great! I took one tablet night before last and took two last night (150mg per tablet), plus I also take a daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement which has 33% of the RDA of magnesium, not sure if that makes any difference at all as to how many MagAsorb tablets I should take?!
Quote:
Jennifer, there's also almond milk. Did you try that?
I haven't tried it but I do have some sat in the cupboard unopened, lol. But surely I can't use that for everything...? I will experiment with it later as a hot chocolate, I am eager to know both HOW and IF it will work!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
whaaaat??
#301143 - 03/01/07 01:58 PM
|
|
|
|
|
jen1013
Reged: 05/06/05
Posts: 1322
Loc: the wabe
|
|
|
Quote:
Some people can't buy their medicines because they're buying expensive dairy alternatives.
Okay, now that's going a little too far. There is no way that someone who's got his head screwed on right would be foregoing medication for dairy alternatives! At the very most each month I spend $3 on a tub of soy sour cream and $3 on two cartons of fake milk. There are plenty of ways to get calcium without eating dairy or dairy alternatives.
PS Flipada, great post -- I agree 100%!
--------------------
jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
By telling people you drink milk all the time and if it's fat free then it's okay, you are encouraging them to drink milk, and it's a little irresponsible because most newbies are looking for any little excuse to go back to drinking milk, eating pizza, etc. This is Heather's board and the board is to help people follow Heather's diet guidelines.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I really don't know anything about IBS-A... I am sorry...My experience ends with C so, I can't help you there...
I hope you don't get D from milk if you decide to try it...
Sorry, it's my fault, the controversy and such... I should probably just leave this board and never return. I just don't want to leave, because I was helped so much by the information and people here. I feel I have to give some back. And I feel for people suffering with IBS... well, I'm just making excuses for myself. It's my fault, don't blame yourself, dear.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
History is also littered with scientific research that has proven to be incomplete or incorrect with further research. The most horrific example of this is probably thalidomide. In the medical field, ulcers leap to mind. In the health/food field, one thinks of margarine being touted as safer than butter - for decades.
Hmmm. It was a science that figured out thalidomide was the problem. It was science that found the baterial source of ulcers (Dr. Barry Marshall, an Australian scientist). It is industry that moves products from science into the market and created the difficulties you alude to. However, this is not the issue.
The EFI diet is a set of guidelines not a set of rules. It definitely is wise for anyone trying to stablize to eliminate dairy and many other foods from their diet. However, once they are stable we should make them feel comfortable experimenting with the EFI diet to figure out for themselves which of the guidelines are rules. This includes experimenting with diary!
--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well, I happen to think this board is about giving people information. I was looking for that at least, when I came here.
I didn't expect an answer to all of my questions. I just wanted to KNOW whatever information there is. And I found plenty of information, for which I am grateful. Having information means also having responsibility. You want me to keep my information to myself, so the newbies, who don't have the responsibility to stick to the EFI diet, don't cheat? I don't think that's right. They can carry their responsibility while I carry mine.
In addition: how are we to discuss more "deep" topics (requiring more experience with the diet or IBS) if we keep making sure everything is simple and clear cut so newbies won't get confused? Or maybe we should not discuss anything "deep"?
I agree with Flipada, if someone wants to believe everything they find on the internet, go ahead... applied to the anti-dairy attitudes also (to call them the least).
I admit that I do not know how IBS works or why dairy doesn't bother me, or why it bothers other people. I don't know many other things and I am no doctor. (Does that sound like a good disclaimer) My doctor said dairy should not be a problem for ME (after having looked at my blood chemistry, and after reassuring me that all my enzymes and stuff levels are completely healthy). I don't know if those people who are not lactose intollerant, maybe they lack some enzyme to process something, or not lack, but have less of it... or maybe it's one of the many things doctors don't yet measure (because they don't know about it for example). I don't know.
Thanks for everything  Was nice talking to you and I am sorry that I angered you guys.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Okay, now that's going a little too far. There is no way that someone who's got his head screwed on right would be foregoing medication for dairy alternatives!
Well, some people don't have their heads screwed right then. I really don't want to get into this, but I've seen it happen.
If you had to choose between buying fennel tea (for example) and buying almond milk, what would you choose? Think about it. It needn't be medication like prescription...
I don't want to offend you by saying this, really. Just want to suggest that you think about that too.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
History is also littered with scientific research that has proven to be incomplete or incorrect with further research. The most horrific example of this is probably thalidomide. In the medical field, ulcers leap to mind. In the health/food field, one thinks of margarine being touted as safer than butter - for decades.
Hmmm. It was a science that figured out thalidomide was the problem. It was science that found the baterial source of ulcers (Dr. Barry Marshall, an Australian scientist). It is industry that moves products from science into the market and created the difficulties you alude to.
Um, not exactly. It was science that originally said thalidomide was safe. It was science that insisted - for years - that ulcers were caused by stress and spicy food and bacteria had nothing to do with it. It was science that said margarine was safer than butter. Science eventually got it right but science got it wrong first.
Quote:
The EFI diet is a set of guidelines not a set of rules. It definitely is wise for anyone trying to stablize to eliminate dairy and many other foods from their diet. However, once they are stable we should make them feel comfortable experimenting with the EFI diet to figure out for themselves which of the guidelines are rules. This includes experimenting with diary!
Hey, I have no problem with IBSers keeping diaries. After all, there have been many famous diarists throughout history and I've never heard that keeping a diary makes IBS worse. (Although I understand Pepys may have suffered from urinary tract stones.)
As for dairy, my position is "I believe dairy proteins are problematic for IBSers"; you are representing my position as "people shouldn't experiment even after they're stable". I don't dance with straw men.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Posts
