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Wonderful - you read the paper! You caught an important point.
All by myself, too, and I didn't even need any help with the big, big words. Next week I'm going to learn my numbers and all, all, all my colors.
Geez, Syl. Patronizing much?
I sat down and I worked through your post line by line and explained where and why I disagreed with you based on what was in the Skoog-Bharucha 2004 literature review. It was fun to do but I realized it was pretty pointless. You're going to continue to draw the conclusions you want. I'm going to continue to believe the data isn't there for those conclusions.
In the extremely unlikely event that anyone else out there is interested in figuring out what Skoog and Bharucha actually say, you can read the paper for yourself right here. (Clicking on this link loads a PDF to your computer with no questions asked.) It's less than 4 pages long excluding references. The second section is entitled "Principles of Sugar Absorption" and that's somewhat technical but the rest of the paper is pretty readable. The introductory paragraph before the body of the paper is just plain English.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Sand ...
#289757 - 11/11/06 04:08 PM
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Double J
Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: High Rocky Mountains ibs-d
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Thanks for the information and the link to it. This Wyoming mountain boy was getting confused ... again!
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 Courage doesn’t always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, “I will try again tomorrow”. Mary Anne Radmacher
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Re: Sand ...
#289759 - 11/11/06 04:47 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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Oh No!
A Canadian prairie person not a Wyoming mountain boy 
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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Quote:
All by myself, too, and I didn't even need any help with the big, big words. Next week I'm going to learn my numbers and all, all, all my colors.
Geez, Syl. Patronizing much?
Gosh I am sorry you took it that way because I meant it! I have not heard from anyone else who took the time to read it and research the material. I truely thought it was wonderful!
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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Sorry, Syl, but it sure seemed patronizing to me, too.
Before dragging out the different articles/studies, the general consensus was that people w/ IBS should be careful when consuming fructose, and that some people may be much less tolerant of fructose than others.
And now that we've all read the studies, the general consensus is that people w/ IBS should be careful when consuming fructose, and that some people may be much less tolerant of fructose than others.
There are all kinds of studies you can find on different aspects of IBS triggers -- including the whole fructose debacle. However, none of these studies are large enough or convincing enough or even properly-scientifically-conducted-enough to really be "proof" -- or no one would be debating it in the first place. While it is certainly interesting to discuss what new study results might mean, it really isn't going to change anything about the diet. Red meat will still be tough to digest -- caffeine will continue to irritate the gut.
I just don't find using Google to find different Internet articles to be "the science of IBS". It's misleading to try and represent something absolutely when you've only got iffy studies with small sample sizes.
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Re: I agree
#289826 - 11/12/06 03:52 PM
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K2
Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Canada
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My philosophy is follow the diet properly. Trial-and-error figure out what else may be giving you problems.
If you find something to be a problem and don't understand why, then try looking it up to see if there's any answer. I just did this for MSG, I know I'm sensitive to it sometimes, and after reading information about it I understand a little bit better, but it won't change how I treat MSG (avoidance when possible).
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Kat
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Gosh Jen ....
#289838 - 11/12/06 05:43 PM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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... you have made a strong criticism.
Quote:
I just don't find using Google to find different Internet articles to be "the science of IBS". It's misleading to try and represent something absolutely when you've only got iffy studies with small sample sizes.
Google is a rather crude tool. I only use it to do preliminary research overviews. I do my primary research using much more powerful tools. I use many subscription-only on-line research databases including the ISI Web of Knowledge.. It covers research published in 15,000 plus of the topic scientific journals for the past 75+ years. I use these databases to research articles. I do keyword searches to locate potentially interesting articles and then read the abstracts. Once I locate an interesting article I use on-line journal subscriptions to retrieve the original article to archive and read.
Most of the articles I read are not available via Google .
Many of the abstracts of the articles are available on Google because abstracts are used to advertise articles.
I maintain a large digital library of original articles on IBS, bowel dysfunction and related illnesses. In fact just this afternoon I added about 15 new articles. Three articles gave compeling evidence for the use of probiotics to treat IBS. In fact in one article they described how a probiotic of Escherichia coli made such an improvement in the lining of the small bowel that it could be seen using a new technology called a Pill Cam. Three other articles discussed the gender distribution subtypes of IBS in Korea, China and Japan screened using ROME I & II and compared the findings to the rest of World. The total sample sizes in these articles were greater than 10,000 individuals. One reason I like to use review articles is that reviewers examine results from many studies effectively increasing the sample size.
Most interestingly I came across article that gives detailed dietary guidelines to manage fructose malabsorption and symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome. I have not studied it in detail yet but I will. A quick scan seems to show it has many similarities to the EFI diet. I will report back when I know more. Here is the abstract
Quote:
Dietary fructose induces abdominal symptoms in patients with fructose malabsorption, but there are no published guidelines on its dietary management. The objective was to retrospectively evaluate a potentially successful diet therapy in patients with irritable bowel syndrome and fructose malabsorption. Tables detailing the content of fructose and fructans in foods were constructed. A dietary strategy comprising avoidance of foods containing substantial free fructose and short-chain fructans, limitation of the total dietary fructose load, encouragement of foods in which glucose was balanced with fructose, and co-ingestion of free glucose to balance excess free fructose was devised. Sixty-two consecutively referred patients with irritable bowel syndrome and fructose malabsorption on breath hydrogen testing underwent dietary instruction. Dietary adherence and effect on abdominal symptoms were evaluated via telephone interview 2 to 40 months (median 14 months) later. Response to the diet was defined as improvement of all symptoms by at least 5 points on a -10- to 10-point scale. Forty-eight patients (77%) adhered to the diet always or frequently. Forty-six (74%) of all patients responded positively in all abdominal symptoms. Positive response overall was significantly better in those adherent than nonadherent (85% vs 36%; PP<0.01 for all symptoms). This comprehensive fructose malabsorption dietary therapy achieves a high level of sustained adherence and good symptomatic response.
Reference
Shepherd SJ, Gibson PR (2006). Fructose malasborption and symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome: guidelines for effective dietary management . Journal of the American Dietetic Association 106 (10): 1631–9.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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Thanks, Syl
I have always heard BRAT-Banannas, applesauce, rice and toast for D.
I have not liked apple juice nor its smell, since my daughter was a baby. I stopped breast feeding too early, mostly due the work associated to buying and moving into our first home (I was not working so I did all the make ready stuff including painting etc.)
She went to formula and did OK, when she started to drink milk, I discovered she was lactose intolerant--not a surprise since I am at least a fourth Native American--but not thought of in time to go back to breast feeding. With every episode of D she started on apple juice and cereal in applesauce until she got better.
It was probably not sweetened applesauce, esp since she did Ok on it.
G
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Here is a link to the description of how HFCS is made. No wonder we have problems with it, there is probably much more in it to cause problems than just the fructose.
http://www.westonaprice.org/motherlinda/cornsyrup.html
I have been returning to cooking everything without convenience ingredients. I have even stopped buying those peeled carrots when I found out they have a preservative on them.
Do you know there is something called "Enhanced Pork" -- meat injected with a solution of water, salt, and sodium phosphate which apparantly may not be labeled as such.
There is another great website
http://www.cooksillustrated.com/default.asp
which has tons of information on the foods we cook with--it has reviews of best brands of ingredients.
Another helpful website has Recipes Clones (some are free) like one for Heinz Ketchup which can be made with IBS safe ingredients.
http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/recipes.asp
G
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The story you related about your daughter is interesting. It made me recall some information about fructose sensitivity and children.
Infants played a role in the identification of fructose sensitivity. Some time ago it was discovered that some infants that exhibited a failure to thrive were found to be fructose sensitive. As soon as applesauce, apple juice and other high fructose foods were removed from their diet the problems disappeared. For fructose sensitive individuals it doesn't matter if the applesauce or juice is sweetened the native fructose in the fruit would still be a problem.
The web site by Mother Linda on how HFCS is made is very informative but a bit overstated. The process she describes while it seems complicated is actually quite straight forward and she says HFCS is much less expensive to produce than sugar. On the other hand I cannot eat HFCS so no matter how it is made I see it as non-essential food
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
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