dietary enzymes
#287622 - 10/23/06 05:02 PM
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jmcr
Reged: 10/23/06
Posts: 2
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Can dietary enzymes be taken with IBS ? If so,with food or on an empty stomach? Or will this be a trigger and cause an attack?
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digestive enzymes are fantastic for ibs, take right before you eat and do a search on the boards if you want, these have come up lots of times.
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I take Digest Gold, by Enzymedica (it's expensive, though), and have found them particularly helpful to take before restaurant meals. Especially when I'm eating somewhere new or trying a new dish.
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-Carol
IBS-A
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for some odd reason everytime i take enzymedica products they make me feel nauseous, i don't know what is in their thera blends, but there is something that disagrees with me.
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There was just a long post on digestive enzymes within the last few days...lots of good information. Check it out...
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Amy
IBS-A
Stable and thankful!
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...or do digestive enzymes and probiotics just not make a difference with some people? I don't get how they can be so very helpful to some...and not seem to help for others to any great degree. Or would I be even worse if I didn't take them? I'm too chicken to try going without, though. But could I just be wasting money?
Do they help everyone to some degree? 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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You need to give it time. Most people don's start to see results with the probiotics for at least 8-12 weeks of continuously taking it.
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But, I've been taking these supplements for over 2 years. The lady in the HFS introduced me to them.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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What probiotic are you using?
I asked someone at the HFS for a probiotic and took it for nearly 3 months this summer and didn't notice anything. Just last week I started taking BIO-K+ and already I can tell it's doing something. I'm not sure if it will be a positive change yet, as my stomach just feels different and rumbly (which they say is normal when starting a probiotic). I decided on this one based on someone on this board who is currently taking it. I find the HFS people helpful sometimes, but sometimes they're just going on 'what they're told' and not 'what they have had success with'.
I'll let you know how I do with this BIO-K+ refrigerated soy yogurt, and if you're interested, the one I tried that didn't work was BIO-K+ non-refrigerated capsules.
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Kat
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Maybe you should try a different brand/kind of probiotic. My experience was similar to Kat's. I took Country Life's Powerdophilus for a couple months with no noticeable improvement. Then my Mom suggested I try Primal Defense, and it made a big difference for me.
The same thing probably goes for the enzymes, but I haven't had a lot of experience with them yet.
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-Carol
IBS-A
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I take this one MegaFlora Since it's food based and refridgerated, I thought it would be pretty absorbably and reliable.
I take Renew life Ultra Enzymes. web page They seem pretty trustworthy too.
That's why I thought maybe some bodies just aren't helped by these types of products and I'm just wasting money.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I posted a link to the one I take above.
Please let me know how you do with the Bio K. I actually have some of this in my fridge...but I usually don't tolerate soy. How much of it are you taking...and how long are you going to take the Bio K for? It's expensive!!!
You don't take digestive enzymes...right?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I'll let you know how it goes. I'm on day 8 so far, started with 1/4 bottle for the first 4 days, now I'm doing 1/2 bottle. It says to go up to 1 bottle for days 9-20 but I think I'll continue on 1/2 bottle for another week or so, and then try 1 bottle/day for 11 days.
After that I plan on taking 1/2 bottle daily, if I find it is helping. I'll continue it forever if it works. They say to take 1/2 to 1 bottle daily as a regular dose. It is expensive, 43$ CAN for a 15-pack (30 days supply), but if it helps me be able to eat more fat and IF I'll be happy.
As for the one you take, I didn't have success with capsules before so I didn't want to try another. If you can't tolerate soy, you might still be ok with this Bio-K soy stuff, the 1/4 bottle is hardly a large serving of soy and you can take it after a very safe meal. Also, if you start eating soy products the key is to start small and build your way up so your system has the chance to keep up.
The only digestive enzyme I take is Beano, which I take with most IF to prevent gas. When I started eating more IF after becoming stable, I kept getting weird D attacks. It turns out it was from gas from these foods, and taking Beano has fixed that. I take Beano with soy products which helps a lot, but I don't take it with the BIO-K, someone said that would destroy the bacteria. I do fine taking the BIO-K without Beano, it is a pretty small serving of soy. I don't know much else about digestive enzymes.
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Kat
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What does this probiotic help with? Is it for constipation as well as diarrhia? Does it help gas, cramps, bloat???
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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You should have seen improvement a long time ago. I agree with kenjari, you may need a different kind of probiotic. Usually one with several strains work well. Primal Defense worked great for me I think because of the several strains it contains. Some people say Bio-K is good too, and QFlora, so you may want to give some of these a try.
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Probiotics in general are supposed to replenish the good bacteria in your digestive system. These bacteria help in breaking down food for digestion. I'm hoping it will help me digest fats and IF better. Some say that people who are lactose intolerant and who take probiotics can actually start to be able to digest lactose again. If you are getting gas and bloating, it could be from having a hard time digesting, and the friendly bacteria could help with that.
Probiotics are promoted more for problems with diarrhea but can be helpful for constipation too. I would try a different type of probiotic than the one you are on now, and if you still don't see results then I would think they won't be helpful to you.
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Kat
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I'm anxious to hear if it helps you! The longest I've used the bottles was ~10 days. But you're right: if taking it longer would erase my gas problems, I'll do it!!
I used to have trouble with soy; but taking the Bio-K didn't bother me at all. In fact, I mix it with soy yogurt! Since I did my initial round of Bio-K, I'm much better at tolerating soy than ever before.
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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The BIO-K+ I get is soy yogurt, well kinda liquidy soy yogurt. Is that the one you tried?
So far I have noticed a few things:
1. I started at way too high a dose. The guidelines on their website are for normal people. I searched for "BIO-K+ IBS" on the Internet and found a different set of guidelines saying to start with 1 tsp, then 2tsp, then 3tsp, then 1/4 bottle, then 1/2 bottle. I started at 1/4 bottle and after only 4 days went to 1/2 bottle. So, I had some difficulties with it, just general stomach feeling 'iffy' and different. Finally around day 8 it started getting better.
2. I used to take 1-2 Imodiums if I had an attack. Because of a ton of stress this past week with school, I've had 2 attacks. The first one I took 1 Imodium and it made me C. So the second one I took 1/2 Imodium and this was enough. So it seems I need less Imodium to have the same effect.
3. I had dinner of mostly fish and veggies without my usual SF buffer (did fondue). I followed it up with a piece of birthday cake with icing. This would normally cause problems immediately, and I had no symptoms at all. Can't quite say this was due to the BIO-K but honestly, I think it's helping.
I bought a pack of 15, so I'll be using it for at least another month. I'll give another update in a couple of weeks. Hopefully it'll be a good one!
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Kat
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Kat
#291062 - 11/23/06 05:55 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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Where did you find the info on the doseage amount? Can you post the link?
Why is it different from the what Bio-K says?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Re: Kat
#291064 - 11/23/06 06:02 PM
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K2
Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Canada
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The info on dosage for IBS is here: BIO-K+
On the BIO-K+ product page it says:
1/4 bottle days 1-4
1/2 bottle days 5-8
1 bottle days 9-20
1/2 bottle days 21-30
1/2 - 1 bottle thereafter
This is what I started following and found to be too much to start with. The link posted above has a better dosage for people with IBS (scroll down).
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Kat
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Post deleted by Nicoblu
Edited by Nicoblu (11/24/06 10:49 AM)
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Kat - Do you take the beano with pretty much every meal then? I think I have some IF in almost every meal, even if it is just a bit - Thanks. Debbie IBS-A
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FOS
#291161 - 11/24/06 06:12 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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I just don't understand why FOS hurts, but you can still take it in the fibersmart. It's still FOS. Can you help me understand?
Thanks!
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Post deleted by Nicoblu
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FOS is
#291179 - 11/25/06 03:33 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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FOS is a molecule made up of a few fructose molecules. It is broken down into single fructose molecules in your intestines. People with fructose sensitivity can have troubles with FOS.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Can you have problems with FOS if you aren't fructose sensitive, Syl?
Thanks
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Do you take them before every meal? How many do you take? I saw an Udo Brand Digestive Enzyme, are you familiar with them or do you recommend another one? Debbie IBS-A
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Re: FOS is
#291216 - 11/25/06 09:12 AM
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Syl
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA
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Good question. I am not sure.
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Re: FOS
#291238 - 11/25/06 12:21 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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Thanks for the clarification.
Are these all the supplements you take? How much of each do you take? I take the FiberSmart and Digest More Plus. I hope this company is not taking advantage of us and really has good and necessary products to help. It's hard to know what to trust!
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I finally got the nerve to try the soy probiotic. So far, okay with it!
Do you have t0 eat take it with food? I would like to take mine at home in the am...but don't eat breakfast until I get to work.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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i take them before every meal and snack, i take future formulation "blf" which is their beans and veggies formula, which means it is less heavy on the lactase and protease and high in the bean digesting one and the starch digesting one. The udo's ones can be good, i didn't find them strong enough, i like the digest more ultra or the future formulations forte or BLF. Good luck
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I am not fructose sensitive, but have trouble with FOS. I avoid it!
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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Yup, that's the one I used. I mixed it with soy yogurt because it tasted really bitter to me. So glad that it seems to be helping you! I never realized they had special dosing instructions on their webpage for IBS sufferers. Although I didn't have trouble with half a bottle. If my gassiness doesn't go away this week, I may try taking it long term and see if it helps again.
Post again later to let us know how it's going!
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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Post deleted by Nicoblu
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They say it's best to take it with your first meal of the day. I usually have it after my oatmeal in the morning. If you can't eat breakfast with it, what about having a glass of water with Acacia? The Acacia is a prebiotic "food" for the good bacteria, so that should help.
Let us know how you do with it,
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Kat
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Thanks, Kat. Well, this morning...no "movement" so don't know if I have actually really reduced my intake of probiotic by going down to 1 tsp Bio-K from my previous probiotic.
I didn't do so well with Acacia, so I don't/can't use that as a prebiotic, unfortunately. I am so used to probiotics saying to take on an empty tummy, one hour before eating!
We'll see how it goes, though! Too early to tell...just happy the soy didn't aggravate me. At least not at this low dose!
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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i read it needs to be refrigerated..where can i get it?
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They have a store locator here
I remember finding them online once but can't remember the website. However it's extremely expensive to buy online because of the shipping.
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Kat
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k2
#291295 - 11/26/06 10:47 AM
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is this the one you have, is this a good price, and for the amount it contains? http://www.harvestnaturalfoods.com/shop/product_view.asp?id=49517&StoreID=4UHP760HCFS92J2100AKHMCCQ2H85G8D&private_product=1
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Re: k2
#291296 - 11/26/06 10:53 AM
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K2
Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Canada
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That's the one I get. I buy mine at a local health food store and they're 15 bottles for 43$ Canadian (38$ US). 26$ for 6 bottles is quite pricey. Can you not find them in a health food store near you?
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Kat
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I would have to drive 3 or 4 hours, so maybe you could help me find something online?
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The refridgerated bottles can't be shipped outside of Canada. The only thing they'll ship to the US are the pills, which are not refridgerated, and don't seem to work quite as well as the bottles.
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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I tried digestive enzymes about a year ago and it was one of the three that you mentioned but I don't remember which one. I took them for about 3 weeks and stopped because they were causing so much cramping and pain that one day I stayed home thinking I had the flu. I was hanging over the bowl and vomiting with nothing coming out. I finally figured out it was the digestive enzymes and stopped them immediately. All my cramping stopped shortly after that. I am afraid to try anything else and have been turned off by them ever since.
I hope you have better luck finding the one that suits you just right. Maybe mine was just the wrong type.
Carol 
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so can i call up one of the stores and they will ship the bio-k-plus to my house? if not then its actally like 6 hours away...
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can't i buy it from somewhere besides canada? online, or some health food store and have it shipped to me? I want the refrigerated ones, or maybe you want to buy them for me and i'll send you a check in the mail or something...?
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I actually don't care that much. My constipation is bad and when I do go very little I have to help it come out..its really gross when i'm in school or work, anywhere, when i get poop on my hands and then have to go to the sink to wash off what I couldn't get off with toilet paper, even after I use soap, my finger stinks...any advice what I should do about this? I take medicines, I take fibers,fennel tea, eat right.
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I think the company that makes Bio-K is in Canada, so that's where they're all shipped from. I suppose you could try calling a Wild Oats or Whole Foods and see if they will ship them to you...
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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Do you think I could take it with dinner tonight? I'm only on day 3 and I forgot it already!
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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LOL no worries..
If I forget with breakfast I take it with dinner, or have some oatmeal at night as a snack and have it with that.
Just don't take any dietary enzymes when you do take it.
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Kat
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Quote:
Just don't take any dietary enzymes when you do take it.
why? I have been taking digestive enzymes before breakfast and the Bio-K after. This isn't good?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Hmm I'm not sure if they should be taken with the probiotics. Someone had said the enzymes may 'eat up' the probiotics, but I'm not really sure.
I don't take any digestive enzymes at breakfast so I didn't really look into it. Maybe search online?
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Kat
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I'm really surprised to hear that you can tolerate 3 doses of Fiber smart three times a day. (especially being IBS-D) It has more IF than SF (2 grams IF and 1 gram SF. You take 3 full doses every day? Did you work up to this dose slowly? Is this the first SFS you've ever tried?
WOW...you wake up at 4am! What do you do for a job?
The intestinal bowel soother has skullcap...which I don't think is safe...just to let you know.
Thanks so much. 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Carol
#291439 - 11/27/06 12:06 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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Was it digestive enzymes or probiotics that were causing your symptoms? You said digestive enzymes...but the products in the previous post are probiotics.
I would never have suspected digestive enzymes as causing a problem like this! Is everything suspect?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Actually....i often miss my afternoon dose of Fiber Smart. I'm a schoolteacher and the 4am was a typo. Its 5am --Noon--and 6pm. I arrive for "duty" at 6:45 am. Lunch is at Noon. Dinner at The 7ish. The Fiber Smart actually helps "bulk up" my stool so my loose stools have more substance to them and i'm not "runny". I guess everyone is just different. I've been reading a bout the Acacia though and am considering switching just to give it a try.
About the Skullcap: Thanks for the warning. I'm not familiar with that ingredient. I don't belive i've had any adverse reactions....at least that I'm aware of. Do tell me more. Maybe a new thread would be better for that topic??? ehhh
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Skullcap
#291505 - 11/27/06 06:32 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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Some of the herbal books I've read warned that it can cause hepatotoxity. It's probably fine...I just try to be really cautious with herbs.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I mentioned probiotics in my post above. The probiotics can cause that reaction if you were taking a high dose. Most bottles you buy don't say to start at a low dose for a week or two then increase by a bit, and so on. They tell you to take them at full dose, and that is wrong.
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mandm1129
#291643 - 11/28/06 12:16 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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Is it the Digestive Enzymes or the probiotic that caused the problems?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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How do you estimate 1/4 bottle and 1/2 bottle? Do you know how many teaspoons or Tablespoons each is?
Are you up to one full bottle yet for the 9-12 days or are you sticking with 1/2 forever?
thanks
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I just estimated the 1/4 bottle or 1/2 bottle by looking at it. I don't think I was very precise hehe.
I started on one bottle/day yesterday and plan to do that for about 10 days or until my current supply runs out. I'm not sure how much this is helping or not, but I guess I'll have to decide that at the end of my supply.
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Kat
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Quote:
I'm not sure how much this is helping or not,
You mean you don't know if any amount of the Bio-K is helping? Or just the added amount may not be any better than the 1/2 bottle?
Let me know if you decide to continue the Bio-K. I thought it was really helping you.
Lisa Marie...you still taking it?
I'm a stickler for "exactness"! So I get crazy with exact measurements! 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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I noticed right away it was 'doing something' as my stomach felt rumbly and different, not necessarily in a bad way. The past couple weeks I've had a lot of stress so we'll see now that I'm more relaxed if I'll do better with more IF and fat in my diet. I noticed it has helped me need less Imodium, but looking at cost of Imodium vs Bio-K+ this isn't really enough of a good change to make it worth while. I'm not sure yet if I'll continue using it as a daily probiotic. I know it could take anywhere from 4-6 weeks to really notice a difference so I'll continue for now. I would definetly use BIO-K+ if I had to go through a round of antibiotics or something though.
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Kat
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No, I only took it for a few weeks after a course of antibiotics. But I sure felt great after taking it!
I'd like to try taking it again, but right now I'm working on increasing my acacia first. I want to see if that helps before I add in the Bio-K again.
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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It depends. I took a digestive enzyme and it was the worst thing I ever did. I had cramping so bad I was up all night one evening with cramping and I was vomiting like I had the flu but nothing was coming out. I was on them for about 3 weeks and finally realized that was causing the problem. I quit them and after a few days the cramping disappeared.
Everyone is different and alot of people on this website swear by them. So it is up to your discretion if you want to try them.
Carol 
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