Soy--Good or Bad?
#279314 - 08/21/06 11:10 AM
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wombat
Reged: 08/18/06
Posts: 10
Loc: NM
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What do you all think of the Soy debate? One side says that it's healthy, the other side says that soy has all these things that are unhealthy. Aside from Heather, who do we trust?
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I actually wondered about that too!I heard that some soy products can cause breast cancer if it runs in your family.I do drink soy milk and it does worry me a bit cause breast cancer runs in my family.I'm not sure who to talk to about that,but I would like to know.If you find anything out email me to let me know if you don't mind. 
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Soy issue is complicated, there is rising evidence that soy in certain forms is not that great for us in large quantities, so its kinda up to the individual, the best forms of soy are the fermented ones, miso, soy sauce and tempeh, but tempeh takes osme getting used to. i eat tofu 2-3 times per week in stir fry's and sandwiches,and some bragg's as seasoning but that is all the soy i eat. i drink rice or almond milk, make sure anything that i buy has no soy ingredients, do not eat soy cheese, etc, so to me that makes an ok consumption of soy. The problem is when people have tofu and soymilk and luna bars and etc since most packaged products have soy added to them in droves. Look for rice or almond alternatives to soy when possible, galaxy foods make a fantastic rice cheese, that does contain casein, but so do most soy cheeses.
Hope this helps.
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Oooh where do you find galaxy cheese? I love rice milk and would love to try rice cheese! How does it taste?
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the mozzarella is great, i used to love it before i ditched cheese altogether it even melts nice. I find it at loblaws or health food stores, check galaxy foods website and see who they have listed near you. It the same company that makes veggie slices soy cheeses, there is even a rice parmesan and a rice cream cheese, sour cream and butter.
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Isn't casein a no-no, though? I've been trying to avoid it, but honestly, there aren't many soy products out there that don't include some sort of milk derivative in their ingredients. I thought casein was just as bad as lactose.
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So did I
#279409 - 08/22/06 06:34 AM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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I can't tolerate soy and can't find any rice alternatives without casein. 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Re: So did I
#279411 - 08/22/06 06:38 AM
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demo
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 48
Loc: New York
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Jordy, are you a vegetarian, too? If so, how do you deal with not eating soy replacements?
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No
#279412 - 08/22/06 06:40 AM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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I'm not a vegetarian. I'd starve because I cannot tolerate the alternatives...like soy.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Re: No
#279413 - 08/22/06 06:49 AM
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demo
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 48
Loc: New York
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I know what you mean. Do you get bloated and stuff from soy, if you don't mind my asking?
Anyone else out there a vegetarian who doesn't do well with soy?
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Here's an old thread on this. I'll just add that my oncologist (I had estrogen receptor negative breast cancer) prefers I stay away from all of the phytoestrogen supplements (like black cohosh and red clover), but believes that eating soy products is fine. You might also take a look at this web page for an overview of phytoestrogens and a brief discussion of how woefully little we know about them.
The other thing to remember about soy if that is you have thyroid problems, you should talk to your endocrinologist about soy. My own endocrinologist's view is, again, that soy as a food is fine as long as I don't eat it right on top of taking my Synthroid, but I know others feel differently.
I think the best way to look at this is to remember that, as Marian Burros says, food is not medicine. Eat soy if you like, don't eat soy if you don't like it, and all things in moderation.
HTH.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Casein
#279422 - 08/22/06 07:26 AM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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This is a dairy protein that is hard for IBSers to digest, just like whey. What I found is that once I was stable for a while I could tolerate it as a relatively minor additive in stuff like soy cheese. I do think, though, that you need to wait until you're stable to try it, because otherwise you won't be able to tell if it bothers you. If I remember correctly, the reason it's in so many non-dairy cheeses is that it makes them melt realistically.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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veganrella
#279440 - 08/22/06 08:12 AM
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Miso
Reged: 04/20/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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vegan rella is a oat/rice based cheese that does nt use any milk ingredients at all, as it is vegan, however it is a very individual taste, so if you would like to try that one i say go for it, the mozzarella is always better than the cheddars, but if you are able to tolerate a tad of the casein the galaxy rice cheese is amazing, truly amazing.
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thanks, i'll try the veganrella. i know i've seen it before. are there any cheddar-flavored cheese substitutes that taste okay? i think i might even be okay with the casein. i never thought cheese was a problem for me; i just stopped eating it because of the diet guidelines.
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...and I have to be careful with soy. I used to drink soy milk, but decided it gave me gas. So I switched to rice milk, and also I LOVE rice cheese (not sure which brand). Soy does tend to give me gas, so I don't eat a ton of it, but I make sure to take 3 beano caplets every time I eat it. That usually helps. But I'm also not "stable" yet, so hopefully I will be able to tolerate it a little better once I am.
Lisa, IBS-C
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Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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i call myself a fishetarian, as i don't eat eggs or dairy, but do eat fish. I eat tofu 3 x per week with digestive enzymes and do fine, but i avoid most soy in my diet otherwise to not overload my system. So no soymilk, or soy margarine etc.
i eat a lot of pureed bean dips and mashed bean burgers that i make from scratch and fish 3 x per week, so that is how i get my protein without making myself sick.
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i'm going to try the rice products (even if they contain casein) and see how i do. i'm nowhere near stable either, but i definitely think soy is hard for me to take. beano doesn't seem to do much for me, even if i take 3 tablets. i can avoid soy for most of the day, so i'll just save it for my dinner, i guess, although my symptoms are worse at night. any advice on avoiding/treating nighttime gas and pain? i have a hard time sleeping next to my boyfriend when i have these symptoms and i often sleep in the next room if it's bad enough. how long does it usually take to stabilize?
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....that Beano didn't work for!
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Yes
#279498 - 08/22/06 12:09 PM
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Jordy
Reged: 08/12/06
Posts: 2095
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I get bloat and gas from soy.
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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Google Dr. Kaayla T. Daniel. She wrote a book on the dangers of soy. There are tons of sites, books and testimonials on the health benefits of soy, but precious little about the possible harmful effects.
I still have not gotten a definite answer on whether or not soy is good for you. It seems that the pat answer is it's okay in moderation. I'll continue my research, but I just wanted to know if anyone had heard anything above and beyond my own limited knowledge. 
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Thanks for the links. Good info.
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From a digestibility point of view soy, egg whites, casein, milk and whey have a digestibility of 1.0 measured using the 'Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score'(PDCAAS). This is a method of evaluating the protein quality based on the amino acid requirements of humans. Things like beans, peanuts, beef and lentils are not as digestible and have PDCAAS between 0.52 and 0.68.
http://www.jssm.org/vol3/n3/2/v3n3-2pdf.pdf
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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And it is one of the hardest beans to digest! My friend was in accupuncture school, and the whole class tested food allergies. They did this by eating only white rice for a few days, then slowly adding in a new food a day and seeing how their bodies reacted to it. Apparently, 90% of the class was allergic to soy!! I for one cannot tolerate it. It makes me bloated and gassy.... Even Luna Bars mess me up! So just remember, soy is a bean and a hard bean to digest!
Also, I notice that a LOT of soy products have A LOT of ingrediants. I try to eat as many "whole foods" as possible. It seems the safest to me on many many levels. Even though some of those products taste awesome (I love fakin' bacon by Morning Star Farms), I don't think they're much better than other processed foods!
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It really depends on your body. I know that for women it is highly subjective. Most people say that soy is great for hormones but it threw mine completely out of whack and made my PMS an absolute nightmare. I finally left it alone.
Speaking of PMS: Does anyone else find that it makes their IBS worse? How do you deal?
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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What I mean by whole foods is foods as close to their natural source as possible. Not processed, very few ingredients. So I'd rather eat a soup I make myself with carrots, potatoes, spinach, etc, then a soup I bought from the store with tons of ingredients that I don't even understand. Does that make sense? There is a book called Healing with Whole Foods. It's all about eating foods that are natural and not processed.
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Thanks, I thought you meant you ate raw foods. 
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IBS-C with pain and bloat
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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I have never done any research, but have always heard the commercialized messages that soy is good for you. I just read through this interesting previous thread about soy and its pros and cons. What I'm hearing is that if you can tolerate it, it is good for you. Is that correct? In other words, pre-Heather I never touched an ounce of soy in my life. Now I drink Soyfee (brewed soybeans) EVERY morning, have soy milk in my oatmeal, and make smoothies out of soy milk. Those are the daily staples and then I might add some more if I make something requiring a dairy alternative. I am tolerating it extremely well. So am I becoming healthier for it? (besides improving the IBS) Or is there such a thing as "too much of a good thing?" with soy? Also, I know that the soy milks often say, "not suitable as infant formula." I was wondering if soy is beneficial for children too (toddler/preschooler). I have been sharing my smoothies with them (which has been a great way to get them to eat some fruits they dislike) and I was wondering if using milk instead of soy milk at their age would be better. Any thoughts? thanks.
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Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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Quote:
I have never done any research, but have always heard the commercialized messages that soy is good for you. I just read through this interesting previous thread about soy and its pros and cons. What I'm hearing is that if you can tolerate it, it is good for you. Is that correct? In other words, pre-Heather I never touched an ounce of soy in my life. Now I drink Soyfee (brewed soybeans) EVERY morning, have soy milk in my oatmeal, and make smoothies out of soy milk. Those are the daily staples and then I might add some more if I make something requiring a dairy alternative. I am tolerating it extremely well. So am I becoming healthier for it? Personally, I'm not sure, but as long as you find it a suitable IBS sub for dairy I don't see any harm. (besides improving the IBS) Or is there such a thing as "too much of a good thing?" with soy? Oh I'm sure there is, as with anything. Also, I know that the soy milks often say, "not suitable as infant formula." I was wondering if soy is beneficial for children too (toddler/preschooler). Here is where I may be able to help you with WHY that has been put on labels. Here is a VERY old, 2004 post that you may want to read throughout, plus all the good replies. I have been sharing my smoothies with them (which has been a great way to get them to eat some fruits they dislike) and I was wondering if using milk instead of soy milk at their age would be better. If it's very little it probably doesn't hurt but if you don't want them to have soy or dairy then you could always use a rice or nut milk alternative. I happen to like the nut milk alternatives so much better than the rice, especially the Almond and Hazelnut ones. Hope this helps a little, and welcome to the boards. Heather's diet is amazing, isn't it?
Kandee Any thoughts? thanks.
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soymilk is not suitable as an infant formula because it doesn't have all of the right components to be complete for a baby, not enough fat etc. there are soy infant formulas that have the fat etc added so those are what are used fir formula.
i personally go on the diversified idea that i use soy, but not as my relacement for everything, i rotate so that my body doesn't develop an aversion or the hormone thing doesn't become an issue. I only eat tofu 2-3 times a week max and rotate between rice and almond milk as i don't like the taste of soy milk, i also avoid products with all of the processed versions of soy as they are almost always GMO.
i would say go ahead and give your kids the soymilk, it is much better for them than regular antibiotic laden milk and less allergenic, but also try other alternative milks so thats its not always soy.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Interesting. Here I thought that I could just substitute everything with soy, but apparently I was having more dairy than I realized b/c I'm realizing how much soy replacement I'm using (forgot to mention the soy cream cheese and Luna Bars that I just tried). I don't mind my kids having dairy...they have no adverse reactions to it...I just wanted to be sure that the soy was okay for them. For example, we don't usually drink chocolate milk, but if my son wants some, now I will give him the soy chocolate milk instead of Hershey's syrup in regular milk. I was assuming that was a better choice.
As for me, that is a good idea to switch off with the soy/rice/almond milks...I can certainly do that for my smoothies and oatmeal. I don't think I will notice a difference. (I really don't like how any of them taste by themselves..I'm really missing my cold cereal with milk...by the way is the "oat milk" much different tasting?)
My question seems to be answered, but I'm still wondering what amount might be too much. The fact that I'm drinking the Soyfee (1-2cups/day) adds a definite soy intake daily.
And yes, Heather's diet and information is soooo helpful. So are the people on this board. It is so relieving to hear such similar concerns/issues without thinking that it is all in your head.
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Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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Soy BAD. Soy = high in weak phytoestrogens.
If you are not menopausal you do not need to put extra estrogen in your body. Not good.
Think about it. The truth is SOY Milk is simply LIQUIFIED BEAN OR BEAN JUICE - but that doesn't sound very marketable now, does it. So silly - if you ate a BOWL OF BEANS...what WOULD A PERSON WITH IBS EXPECT TO HAPPEN? (think people) Come on...would you eat liquified bean juice? How about mashed bean anything...bean beans...there is a reason why we avoid them! And recent research says Soy - no no...don't do soy.
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm
Read it and ... you know.
Edited by sweetpea (11/04/06 12:27 PM)
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soy is not horrible fro you but it should not be consumed in the amount that we have led to believe that we should. For some reason in north america we get told one thing is good for us and we go overboard with it. Soy is good for you in moderation, just like anything else, but yes too much of it, especially non fermented and it has the potential to cause problems with thyroid etc. For this reason as i mentioned i do tofu max 3x a week and drink rice and almond milk instead of soy milk and do not purchase products that contain soy as additives as much as i can, that way i am getting fairly pure say and only a certain amount of it. I would advise against soy coffee, cheese, milk, cream cheese and ice cream, yogurt and tofu in ones diet, that is too much soy in my opinion, if it is eaten in more than 3 products a day.
As i saud thereare rice and nut alternatives that match the soy versions, so perhaps someone could do as i do with my milks and rotate with versions.
Hopefully no one runs away from soy, but also don't go totally nuts over it.
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Thank you SO much, Kandee. I had NO IDEA whatsoever about any of this. I don't like soy milk and other soy products, but I think my mom has been overdosing on soy for awhile... and I think this is really important to know... THANKS!
I am probably not going to stop eating soy burgers (but I only do onse a week, I'm not a burger lover anyway), but I will know and I won't make myself eat one if I don't feel like it just for the alleged health benefits.
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I don't understand. How can some of these articles say such bad things about soy while so many other claims promote it to be healthy...or at least a healthier alternative. I have to wonder while I was reading the basically "anti-soy attacks" if the same type of articles could be written about so many other things that we ingest (ie., milk, meat, etc. can be reported as harmful). I am so glad that I posted this question, as I was starting to go "soy crazy" and now I will reconsider and do everything in moderation. The one thing that I don't want to give up is the daily Soyfee though. You don't understand...I was one of those people who NEED their morning cup of coffee (whether it was physical or psychological...it doesn't matter). I can't stand tea and the warm morning "coffee-tasting" replacement is the only thing from keeping me from a cup of real joe. Rocomojo sells a coffee replacment too but that is soy...I'll look into teechino...I don't know what that is made of or if I like it. (Meanwhile, I just ordered 8 bags of Soyfee to get the bargain price) Well, I guess I will switch up on the milk replacements and watch how much other soy I ingest. This was a real surprise to me to hear all this negativity about soy.  I'm wondering if Heather has any comments. (Also, I didn't read all the articles so the ones I read were not 2006 research.)
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Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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remember to see the good and bad pointing research for its potential to be right and wrong. like i said i moderate my intake, but definetly still eat it, i love tofu. So by all means enjoy your soyfee, just don't overdue it on a daily basis with all the other soy things, like i said max 3 a day or something is a decent way to look at it. Soyfee + a piece of soy cheese one day and soyfee + soy something else and soy icream, etc. Don't get too scared, it is god for you, but yes moderation is key, even with anything i try to rotate my foods so that i don't become sensitive to any of them.
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Its not bad for IBS. But anything in moderation is fine. Period.
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Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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