Squash and Zucchini - SF or IF? (nt)
#215191 - 09/22/05 09:20 AM
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God is Faithful!
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Thanks guys. I really need to increase my veggie intake (I'm drinking organic veggie juice by the gallon) and these are two of my favorites. I'll just be sure to peel them before putting them on my George Foreman grill.
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Squash, along with potatoes, are my safest veggies! I eat lots of zucchini, yellow squash, acorn squash, etc. Enjoy! 
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"Anyone can exercise, but this kind of lethargy takes real discipline." -Garfield
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Remember though that winter squash like butternut, acorn, hubbard, are SF and summer squash- yellow or green (zucchini/courgette) are different and have more IF. And yes the skins of summer squash are IF but so are the seeds, so summer squash should be treated as an easier to digest IF veggie, but winter squash is a SF veggie since you don't eat the skins or seeds and the flesh is like a sweet potato. 
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Minnie, are you sure? I just remove the seeds from my summer squash and they've always been 100% digestible for me. I was under the impression squash was squash, and it was all mostly SF.
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"Anyone can exercise, but this kind of lethargy takes real discipline." -Garfield
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The point is that the pulp of the summer squash is pretty darn mushy but there is still skin and seeds to get rid of first. Whereas winter squash is just mushy altogether since you can't eat the skin and seeds. My gut feeling is that there is a difference in the pulp too but that is just a guess. I don't feel summer squash is as easily digestable as winter squash since summer squash is more like a cucumber. Not that we should be afraid of IF in veggies! but we should know the difference between summer and winter squash. I hope this makes sense.
What I am thinking is that it is true SF if it mashes like a potatoe which winter squash definitely does. Summer squash doesn't mash the same and my gut feeling (no pun intended) is that is has more percentage of IF than winter squash.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Edited by Little Minnie (09/22/05 07:07 PM)
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But since squash is listed in Heather's Soluble Fiber food list, I always figured that the insides of all squashes were SF and the skin and seeds of all squashes were IF. To me the difference is that you're more likely to eat the seeds and skin of zucchini and yellow squash than you are of ones like acorn and spaghetti. It sounds like you're saying that even the flesh of zucchini and yellow squash is not really SF, yes?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I think it is mushy enough to be considered SF, but I think it has a different texture than winter squash and is maybe less digestable for a newbie and they should know the differences since many people don't know what summer and winter squash are. BTW how could a person really de-seed a zucchini and skin it effectively? There would be not much left that is for sure! and how would that work cullinary-wise? some chunks of zucchini mush- mmm sounds great. LOL
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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It's not. Yes, I admit it, I de-seeded a zucchini. LOL! But I only did it because it was a REALLY BIG zucchini, and the part where the seeds are is kind of mushy to begin with, and I just didn't want that in my stirfry.
Soooo... I quartered the sucker lengthwise, and then ran a knife flat down the center of each quarter, taking away the seeds and the really soft part of the pulp. I was left with firmer squash - of course, I left the skin on - and plenty of it for stirfry and then some.
For small zucchini, that would totally be a waste - you'd take away too much of the good stuff! But for REALLY BIG ones, it actually has a better texture than leaving the seeds in.
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http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/fiber.html
Zuchini is just slightly higher in IF - but is very nearly half in half -- having 0.5 SF and 0.7 IF in 1/2 cup when cooked. That's from frozen veggies -- which includes the skin and seeds.
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According to this chart, white rice doesn't have ANY soluble fiber in it. I thought that this was such a good SF base?? 
And some of these foods that I thought would be practically all SF is actually half-and-half. Hmmm. OK, am confused now ...
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Hi Jen. This was discussed not that long ago I think, but the thing with 'refined grains' - i.e. white flour, white rice - that have had the bran removed, is that the actual amount of total fiber in them is very small. These are really safe foods because all or most of the IF is removed, and the actual amount of SF you need to stabilize your gut, i.e. for a meal, is actually pretty small. (It can be hard to get *enough* SF from dietary sources alone though, which is why an SFS is so important for most people.)
Kandee does a much better job of explaining it in this post (this whole thread would probably be helpful to you). And this whole thread, but especially this one post by Heather also provides a really very good explanation of it all. This quote especially, I think, is really important to remember:
Quote:
don't go by fiber charts so much as the "smushable" rule. Sounds silly, but if a food smushes easily, and you could force it through a sieve, that's a good indication that it's soluble fiber. Think of cooked carrots and potatoes, bananas, applesauce, white rice, corn meal, cooked noodles or barley, etc. Or if you can dissolve it in water and it will form a gel (white bread, cooked rice, pasta, oatmeal, etc.)
If the food isn't smushable and wouldn't dissolve in water, you can assume it's more insoluble fiber (think apple peels, spinach leaves, cucumber seeds, any fruit or veggie that's got a hull or seeds or skins or is fibrous).
HTH
Edited by retrograde (09/25/05 10:02 AM)
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In the end, I can see those find seeds in their appropriate deposit box.
Kate.
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...the high soluable fiber content of iceburg lettuce. ROTFL (and wagging her imaginairy tail being a big dufus). It's so sticky/humid, maybe I'll pick up one of those anemic heads.
Kate.
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I have two huge size zucchini's in my fridge. Do you think I should deseed them before cooking and eating them?
Thanks.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Laurel, I just read those posts you just mentioned where
Heather says a gram or two of SF makes a big difference. But
then, why on earth does she recommend that C's get up to
three tablespoons of acacia per day which is 22.5 g's!!!!
I just took the numbers from that chart and added up my food
fiber intake which came out to be 35 g's, now you add 22.5
to that, and I'm waaaay over the limit! It also says as a
result your C will get worse. Additionally, it says this
problem usually arises from taking too much fiber supple-
ments, which is exactly what I'm doing  . -Bob
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and the low fiber content of greens! I thought there was way more IF and total fiber in cooked greens, like spinach or chard. 
Most of the veggies I consider "SF" have more than the greens.
And bananas (which I thought were the most SF fruit) have lots of IF in them!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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nearly all IF - I guess that explains it. I do eat IF -- but for some reason -- lettuce does not get along with my gut.
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the chart had 0 SF for rice. Not even .2 or anything like some of this other stuff. Plus the quote mentions not to go by fiber charts -- why? Is there a reason they aren't accurate?
I know white bread definitely helps when I'm in a D attack, but white rice does not -- it tends to go straight through me. (Yes, I do chew my food!!!) So that's why I'm kind of obsessing on that. I have also made homemade rice milk and rice doesn't all turn into a gel -- there are all kinds of bits and pieces left behind.
Not expecting any answers from you, just kind of babbling.
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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except...
#215751 - 09/25/05 03:17 PM
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jaime g
Reged: 07/27/05
Posts: 961
Loc: new york city
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i think the smushable rule would work for starch, too. sometimes it seems like heather's diet treats SF and starch as the same thing. SF is proscribed for two uses, too - to create the happy 'gel' in your colon to help D and C (mostly SFS's do this), and to get your digestion going easily before you have harder to digest foods that could incite an attack (this is where low-SF foods that are mostly starch, like white bread, work, too).
this is mostly personal deduction, but also a little research... it seems to make sense, though i wish heather would address the lack of SF in the safe 'cushion' foods like white rice and bread that she refers to as SF foods.
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jaime
ibs-a (mostly d) // vegetarian
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I got one of those from a gardener this summer. I've never seen a zucchini that big. (Actually I'm not sure I've ever seen any single food item that big.) I de-seeded mine also and after tasting it, I think I should have peeled it, too. My husband and I actually decided it wasn't really a zucchini - I guess we were wrong if you've seen the same phenomenon.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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First of all cheerios is spelled wrong, secondly it says apples have 1.5 total grams fiber 0 grams IF and 4.2g SF. That makes no sense. And oranges and grapefruits register so differently. And how can mushrooms have so much IF? They are just mush. And mashed pumpkin has so much IF! I think the list is a good resource to check with but not to rely on. It is better to rely on the experience of others with IBS. And remember it is right about fiber causing C without adequate liquid intake!
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Those giant zucchinis are not really good for eating! They are good for baking, but are too woody-foamy to be used for eating. I seeded my last huge one before baking with it, but left the skin on, because it was so fluffy and that makes for nasty bread. Anyway zucchinis are best eaten small, with the peel and seeds if you can handle them and if they are small it should be fine when they are cooked. That is why deseeding and peeling an eating zucchini is sort of silly cullinary-speaking.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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I think the reason Heather says to go by the smushable rule rather than charts is because charts are very often inaccurate, mostly I think because there hasn't been much research done into standardizing IF/SF amounts in food, rather than just 'total fiber' (I didn't even notice all those spelling mistakes and discrepancies - thanks for pointing that out Tamara!  ).
The smushable rule, and the experiences of others, are pretty reliable though - IF is the fiber that gives things form and structure. So the easier it is to mash, the less IF is in there, plain and simple. For example, it would be pretty easy to mash up cooked zucchnini flesh, but almost impossible to mash the skin. That's because the skin is loaded with IF, giving it a form and structure. Also, once things are mashed, you break up that structure, making the IF that is in there easier to digest. So, for example, mashing beans makes them easier to digest without actually removing any of the IF because the chains and structures of the IF are broken up. Same for, say, cooked vs. raw carrots.
Hope that helps a little
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Bob
#215774 - 09/25/05 06:19 PM
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There is a big difference between the amount of fiber recommended TOTAL, from SFS and from food, and the amount recommended JUST from SFS. Heather recommends that C's get that much from acacia, but she expects, I would imagine, that you're getting more still from food. You still need to eat good fiber-rich foods (both SF and IF) - it's not healthy to rely on supplements for *any* nutrients, macronutrients etc. ~50g of total fiber a day is not a bad number at all. I usually get that much (IF and SF together) before I even add in the fiber I'm getting from my acacia.
What limit are you referring to? I'm not sure who you're talking about when you say "it says that as a result your C will get worse..." ....
At any rate, I wouldn't take this chart to be gospel - there's lots of other ones available that (frustratingly!) will tell you very conflicting information. Best to go by the "smushable" rule, as Heather says.
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I didn't notice the mistakes either. Thanks for pointing them out.
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Re: Bob
#215821 - 09/26/05 04:58 AM
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Johnny T. Reb
Reged: 07/09/05
Posts: 987
Loc: Lake Linden, Mich in the U.P. IBS-C
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Laurel, Under Toxicity, they say if you take in more than 50
grams of total fiber that will promote C, D, or spastic colon
disorder. That's the limit I was refering to. Thanks for
your clarification! -Bob
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