For the C'ers - some thoughts
#209619 - 08/29/05 08:08 PM
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e_mcmaster
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 520
Loc: Norman, Oklahoma
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First off, let me say that I don't want to dog on this diet. There have been a lot of helpful tips and things that I'm glad I now know - things I didn't before coming to this site.
I've been doing a lot of thinking about why this time last year, when I wasn't following an IBS diet AT ALL I was doing so much better than I was just a month or two ago. I started thinking about how much vegetables, salads and whole wheat I ate back then and decided to try adding it back in again and giving it quite a while to actually see if it was bothering me or if it was another factor. Since I started adding it back in, I've felt almost normal. Sure, I have a few bad days, but it's usually due to something else. I have even been able to decrease the amount of Miralax I take, which is making me super happy.
Obviously, I still stay away from dairy, red meat, fats, carbonation, artificial sweeteners and caffeine, but I think IF is very crucial to keeping me stable. I think we need huge amounts of IF to keep cleaned out. Just something to think about for the C'ers out there. 
Note: I know IBS is highly personal, but this has helped me so much that I think everyone else should know 
P.S. I should also probably add that I have been taking Digestive Advantage for a while now and I think it has contributed to my well being, too.
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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Elizabeth! I missed your voice!
I'm not a C'er (I'm a D'er who is stable again--an A'er, nearly) and I agree completely with your statement re: IF! We need lots.
Kate.
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I can't say enough for D.A. I hope it continues to work. I couldn't find the one for IBS around here and had to go about two weeks without it. ARGGHH. I finally ordered it on line and have been on it again for a week. I have had a couple of great bm's. Felt normal. I don't say it will work for everyone, but it sure helps me.
yesterday for lunch I had:
Chicken leg - I even ate the crispy skin
mashed potato with gravy
mixed veggies
coffee
I was a little gassy in the afternoon, but it wasn't trapped, so it was okay. Last night we had tuna sandwich and a few chips.
I hope this keeps up. Only problem is I'm always hungry.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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Hi Kate! Glad to see you're doing well - how are you?
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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First, I am so glad you are feeling better. I know it must have been a leap of faith for you to try something totally different from what is considered safe.
Are you eating SF before the IF in order to buffer your system? This diet doesn't say not to eat IF, but just to eat it after an SF food source. Are you able to eat IF, like wheat and veggies on their own...without the SF buffers? I have been thinking of trying this method myself.
Did you ease into this way of eating...with the wheat and IF foods or did you just start do it all at once?
Also, doesn't the artifial sweeteners in the Digestive Advantage upset you? They contain both Mannitol and Aspartame which are very bad for our tummies...so the experts say. Those ingredients have prevented me from taking them myself. You said you stay away from artifial sweeteners, but D.A. does contain artificial sweeteners.  What do you think of this?
What is your usual breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks? I am very interested in what foods/meals you have found helpful. Please help me by sharing your foods and meals...please.
Are you taking any SFS...or just your Digestive Advantage?
Again, good for you!
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I'm glad you're finding a path that works for you. Did you ever go see the top of the line digestive doctors you were talking about? If so, how did that go?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Hi Elizabeth! Physically, I'm doing great. How are you? My D seems stable. I finally have perfect sodium/chloride levels--so I've got a grip on my electrolyte deficiency. My hair is growing like a weed  --must be all those greens! (No, I KNOW it's because of all those greens!)
With high potency enzymes, I can actually eat broccoli and cauliflower and brussels sprouts and a bit of onion without fear! I'm having a bit of a nasty GAD/OCD week (generalized anxiety disorder/obsessive compulsive disorder) week--my lifetime psychic challenge, I suspect. However, I always manage to survive myself.
So, Digestive Advantage is effective for you? What kind of IF sits best with you? I'm pretty good with well cooked things. Now that I'm stabilizing, I have to keep an eye on not getting "C." I like that "clock-work" feeling. I've been avoiding fruit, lately, and that seems to have helped my D tremendously.
Kate.
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I SWEAR by a good probiotic!! I'm back on mine, and back to feeling good today! Ask me next week and I bet that pain will be 99% gone! I had 5 glasses of wine last night and woke up with only baby cramping!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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IF is critical to C'ers! I start each meal with my acacia, I swear our bodies work better with a good probiotic, but IF is crucial to every meal or things just don't go! Glad you are feeling so much better!
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God is Faithful!
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after 5 glasses of wine you probably couldn't feel much anyway
Yes, it's a probiotic. Here's what it contains.
The active ingredients in Digestive Advantage are lactic acid bacterial species called Ganeden Lactobacillus
don't know, don't care as long as it works.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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I think Cers get way too little IF in general. I think they are too afraid of "an attack" and that they do not take enough SFS either, having bad reactions at first. The gut has to be trained! I do think it is always a good idea to eat the IF after SF and that is the difference with this diet and others.
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IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
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Ah, Shannon, emotionally I wouldn't be young again for all the (decaf) tea in China, but what I'd give to be young again physically! If I'd had 5 glasses of wine last night, I probably wouldn't have woken up at all today!
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Ditto that! SF is the *only* way I can get the IF I need - I've tried having IF alone without a SF buffer, and within two weeks I get more C (and crampy) than ever. Now that I make sure that every meal has both (unless I'm feeling nauseated or gone over to the dark side of D), I am pretty darn regular. Admittedly, there's also hypno, probiotics, and loads of peppermint tea (and no trigger foods) helping things along, but it's the regular SF + IF that is really key.
--AC
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I totally agree about the IF for C'ers. These past two weeks have been really bad for me because I am back to work at out of a routine for going to the bathroom. I have been very C the last two weeks even taking my Acacia. Today I ate a whole apple minus the skin after lunch and then ate a peach for a snack later on. It got things moving some without cramping. I sometimes forget how much I need the salads and fruits to help me. Now that I have been doing this almost a year I am trying to add a few things back into my diet and see if I do well with it. I might have to try that D.A. I have heard lots of good things about it.
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I read her post as she was doing better before she went on this IBS diet? Just eating lots of IF food and not necessarily the Sf buffers. Am I wrong?
Elizabeth, are you eating high fiber cereals (Raisin Bran, or 11 grams fiber cereal, only whole wheat breads, whole grains and tons of fruits and veggies (skin and all) without the SF buffers?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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It does contain Aspartame and Mannitol in case you believe those need to be avoided. Having said that, I think after reading SC and Elizabeth's reaction to DA, I might try it. I'd rather have some increased cramps and bloating than the constipation. Constipation increases the bloat, cramps, and pain anyhow. 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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I also agree about the IF and pro/pre-biotics. Both have really made a difference for me. A few months ago, after reading in another digestive-focused diet, I switched back to my Ezekiel 4:9 bread, which is actually sprouted grains, not whole wheat, and I feel so much better! I have also been enjoying lots of veggies. I usually try to eat something that is SF first thing still, like Heather's diet says, but I have increased the ratio of SF to If. I have been getting pre-biotics from different fermented foods too, and that has been really helping with the bloating and 'C'. I can always go back to all SF if things get out of hand, and I need to stabilize.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
-Brandy
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Mostly Stable - sometimes "C"
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I don't know... it just seems to *me* like she's suggesting more IF, not necessarily something different than Heather's diet. Maybe I'm wrong though, of course - I guess it all depends on whether or not you're having SF first/with every meal etc, Elizabeth.
I do think that a lot of people need to get more IF and are kind of freaked out by it and don't eat enough of it etc. I remember a thread a while back, can't remember what it was about, but people were saying how much IF they eat - I was shocked to find that (as a D) I eat more IF than some of the C people on here!  And obviously, IF is way more important for C people. Just my thoughts
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Brandy
#210265 - 08/31/05 06:23 PM
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Cyndy
Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 1301
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Are you doing the Maker's Diet? It sounds like it.
When you eat Ezekiel bread (which does contain sprouted wheat), do you eat a white piece first...or how do you get your SF beforehand? What SF foods do you eat before meals? It sounds like you eat more IF than SF, am I correct? 
And finally, what fermented foods do you eat and how do they help? Aren't they pretty gassy? Are fermented foods considered prebiotics?
Do you take a probiotic supplement?
Thanks for all your help.
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LMAO!
#210317 - 08/31/05 10:36 PM
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_Willow
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 2090
Loc: Canada.
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maybe that's not such a good thing that it doesn't affect me, LOL!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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love dem bugs!
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Keep on keepin' on...
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I had a full box of the "old" D.A. before they changed the formula that didn't have any artificial sweeteners in it. I finally used it all and bought some more yesterday to discover, *gasp*, that you all were right about them adding the stupid sweeteners in there. So, on my long commute home from work, I called the company and ended up being transferred a billion times before I got some info. Turns out that they do sell, online, DA in capsules (not chewables) that don't have any artificial sweetners in it. Here's the website:
http://www.rofay.com/products_view.asp?pid=9
You want to buy the one that says "92 CAPLETS" not "tablets." It's $24.99 for 92 caplets with shipping of about $5, I think. I haven't tried it yet, but it's supposed to be the "old" version that has so completely turned my bloating and cramping around in the last few weeks. I can't tell you all how much I love DA! I can eat big crunchy salads again without pain! yay!
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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I can't believe how much it is helping you. You must be one of the lucky ones, Elizabeth.  I've done a lot of searching on IBS boards and the results on D.A. seem to be that it works for some and not for a lot of people. Maybe it depends on what triggers you IBS or the reason you got it in the first place?
I tried calling the company too, to vent my grievance and didn't get anywhere. The person on the phone didn't have a clue how to help me.
I assume you are going to order the caplets on line, right? I would do it too if I knew for sure they would help me.
Are you sure it's the old version with the same ingredients? Do you only take one a day? Are you taking an SFS along with it? Or you Miralax?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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...a little higher up? I need help and I would greatly appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these questions, plaease!
Thanks so much. That's awesome that you can eat a salad with no pain. But do you still eat SF beforehand?
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I got mine from Amazon for $19.99.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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Quote:
Are you eating SF before the IF in order to buffer your system? This diet doesn't say not to eat IF, but just to eat it after an SF food source. Are you able to eat IF, like wheat and veggies on their own...without the SF buffers? I have been thinking of trying this method myself.
No, most of the time I'm not eating SF before IF. With salads, I eat it at the same time sometimes, but not with, for example, a sandwich. It was scary at first, but doesn't seem to bother me much.
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Did you ease into this way of eating...with the wheat and IF foods or did you just start do it all at once?
I guess I would say that I pretty much jumped into it head-on. I started by having a salad at dinner one night when we were out to eat and when that didn't bother me, in fact, helped me so much the next day, I started eating more vegetables throughout the day. By the end of that week, I had bought some seven-grain bread and was eating sandwiches on that as well. This coincidentally started around the time that my breadmaker broke, so I haven't had any fresh SF bread in a few weeks.
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Also, doesn't the artifial sweeteners in the Digestive Advantage upset you? They contain both Mannitol and Aspartame which are very bad for our tummies...so the experts say. Those ingredients have prevented me from taking them myself. You said you stay away from artifial sweeteners, but D.A. does contain artificial sweeteners. What do you think of this?
Yes, artificial sweeteners do bother me. I have had tremendous luck with the form of DA that doesn't contain A.S. Since they changed the formula, I called to scream at them and was told that they still sell the formula without it, but in "caplets" not "tablets" and they don't usually sell them at drugstores.
Buy it online at:
http://www.rofay.com/products_view.asp?pid=9 and buy the box that says "92 caplets" for $24.99. Because they're not chewable, they don't contain any sweeteners. I haven't tried them, but the lady claims they are the same formula, same ingredients as the box I just finished 2 days ago. And that formula really made a difference in my life.
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What is your usual breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks? I am very interested in what foods/meals you have found helpful. Please help me by sharing your foods and meals...please.
I eat so often that I don't categorize things as breakfast, lunch or dinner, but here is my typical daily menu:
1. 1/2 cup oatbran (dry) made with 1 1/4 cups lite/fat-free soymilk and with 1/2 cup unsweetened applesauce & 1/4 cup blueberries stirred in
2. large (peeled) chopped granny smith apple topped with a mixture of 1 cup plain soy yogurt and 1 scoop natural rice protein powder
3. 1/2 turkey breast & soy provolone on ww/7 grain bread; baby carrots with artichoke heart & red onion hummus; piece of dark chocolate
4. luna bar/cliff bar
5. homemade marinara sauce with tomato chunks, 98% ff ground turkey and mushrooms over steamed zucchini ribbons; large salad with red leaf lettuce, cukes & tomatoes topped with lf HM dressing
6. protein shake (1/4 cup egg white protein, 1 cup lite chocolate soymilk); watermelon chunks
7. other 1/2 sandwich
8. more of #1 OR bagel with ff cashew butter (I drain the oil out like this)
Just an example. Sometimes more salads, sometimes less.
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Are you taking any SFS...or just your Digestive Advantage?
Yep. I take a mixture of Citrucel tablets and acacia to the tune of 14.5g a day. I also take Zelnorm because my GI claims it is good for me to keep taking it.
Hope this helps!
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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Beth,
I will let you know about the results of the new DA once it comes in the mail. I used to be one of those that it "didn't seem to help" because I didn't give it enough time. About a month ago, I vowed to give it the full 14 days before I stopped taking it, and lo and behold, it worked! But, yes, I will absolutely let you know how this new caplet works.
I am still taking miralax, but to my delight, I don't have to take near as much anymore. I was really worried because it seemed like I was taking more and more each month, but with all the IF I eat now, I am going very well, like clockwork. And as I'm sure you know, a BM that comes from eating SF is so much more satisfying than a BM from a laxative-like medicine. Still taking the SF, too - about 14.5 g a day.
Hope this helps you!
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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I had it open in another window and was working on answering it when I saw this post. It's all answered, down below. Let me know if you need more clarification.
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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i completely agree with you!! i was told by the first doctor who treated me [a lady doctor--no wonder she was so smart!] to "always include lots of ruffage". if i dont have ruffage, i only have breads. and breads are very constipating unless youre drinking more then enough water to flush it out! i added in tons of salad, fresh fruits and all the other things i was thinking were bad for me and i actually felt better then i did when i was eliminating them. sometimes i dont understand this disease *sigh* 
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VEGAN ASHLEY~IBS/C
www.myspace.com/dutchflowers
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I just had a big crunchy salad! I'm taking some high potency enzymes and I cannot tell you HOW MUCH I've missed those big bowls of raw leafy greens (I'm a spring mix addict), etc. I'm glad D.A. is making a difference for you. Don't be such a stranger on the boards. Your experience, your insight is valuable.
I like to use my food processor creations, steamed and grilled/roasted veggies as part of those big salads.
Kate, IBS-D.
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Digestive Advantage has been helping me too! I am glad to hear that someone else is saying that. I know some people on here have said that it has artifical sweeteners in it that are supposed to be bad for you?? But I havent had any side effects. Really I have never had a problem with artificial sweetners. What about you?
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...if you read further down in the post, Elizabeh says that she still had the older version of DA which did not contain the artificial sweeteners.
She is going to order the caplets on line now, which do not contain the artificial sweetener. She is not taking the ones with mannitol and aspartame.
HTH.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Thanks, I did read down after I posted that last one. I was wondering though...how come some the artificial sweetners are that bad for you??
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What do you mean in terms of "that bad for you?"
If you mean in terms of IBS, I think most of us are really sensitive to them because they are artificial and contain chemicals. I'm sure Heather has a better explanation.
As for other health issues, I think they are, in general, really bad for you because they are man-made and derived from chemicals. With what I know now, I wouldn't put them in my body even if I *could* handle them with my tummy.
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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I always think of you when I am food processing something, Kate. Big thanks for introducing me to steamed & pureed greens to put in omelettes. I still eat them and they are so yummy!
Congrats on feeling so good and being able to eat again, Kate!
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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Here's a link that explains Heather's thoughts on why artificial sweetenters are bad for IBS Artificial Sweeteners .
But as Elizabeth stated, they are bad for people without IBS too! Scary stuff.
HTH. I know it's a hard decision to make since the DA with artificial sweetener seems to be helping you. Maybe order them on line (without the A.S.) to be safe....just a thought. Take it or leave it! 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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you spent a lot of time doing that! I wish I knew how to use the quote feature!
It looks like you do still have some sources of SF with most of your meals (unintentionally probably) like the applesause with oatbran, carrots with your 7 grain bread (what brand do you buy), etc. And you decided to still peel your apple...have you ever tried eating the peel as an experiment? Or do you just not like the peel?
Plus, are you taking your SFS before meals during the day, that probably helps too!
Do you eat a whole wheat bagel?
Also, with your dinner, what is cukes? And how do you make your own dressing? You should post your recipes for homemade marinara and the dressing! What are zucchini ribbons?
Finally, do you always cook your veggies (besides the salad of course)!
How long have you been on Zelnorm? Mine stopped working after just a short time! 
It is awesome that you have found a diet plan that works for you...that is all I really want too! Thank you so much. Pop in more often, as Wind said. You add a lot, especially for us struggling Cers!
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Thanks for the info. I has heard alot about them, just not the facts. Good to know!
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Quote:
you spent a lot of time doing that! I wish I knew how to use the quote feature!
It's really easy. Put "[qote]" (without the actual quotes!) in front and "[/qote]" behind whatever you want to appear in quotes. (actually spell it right, though)
Quote:
It looks like you do still have some sources of SF with most of your meals (unintentionally probably) like the applesause with oatbran, carrots with your 7 grain bread (what brand do you buy), etc. And you decided to still peel your apple...have you ever tried eating the peel as an experiment? Or do you just not like the peel?
Most of the time, I eat just blueberries with my oatbran. I like applesauce, but I only use a 1/4 cup, so I doubt that is much SF, but I do agree with what you're saying.
The seven grain bread is by Grant's Farm (I think) and the whole wheat bread is by Baker's Inn, but you could do lots of different ones. I do better with the seven grain because it isn't 100% whole wheat flour, whereas the Baker's Inn one is.
I haven't even thought of not peeling my apple. I do like the peel, so next time I'll probably not peel it to see.
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Plus, are you taking your SFS before meals during the day, that probably helps too!
I take my SFS in 6 doses throughout the day, which sometimes coincides with meals. Especially if I'm going to be having very little carbs with the meal.
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Do you eat a whole wheat bagel?
I haven't tried that yet - more out of love for the texture of white bagels than anything else. I will be starting to do it, though, once I can find my beloved Earth Grains WW bagels again.
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Also, with your dinner, what is cukes? And how do you make your own dressing? You should post your recipes for homemade marinara and the dressing! What are zucchini ribbons?
"Cukes" is my affectionate term for cucumbers. I don't make my own dressing - I use Annie's Organic low fat Honey Mustard, which I think is incredible. I'll post my recipe for marinara sauce later. Zucchini ribbons are an idea I got from Wind. I peel a zucchini (my personal preference) and then use the potato peeler to make "ribbons" that I drop into boiling water for like 30 seconds. They have a close enough texture to resemble thick noodles once mixed with sauce.
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Finally, do you always cook your veggies (besides the salad of course)!
No. It really depends on how I'm eating them. For example, I often make egg white omelettes with mixed baby greens (which I steam and puree into a "sauce" that I swirl in), tomatoes (which I don't cook) and zucchini chunks (which I do cook).
If it's on a salad, I don't cook it. I just finished a HUGE salad with chopped roasted chicken, tomatoes, broccoli and black bean/corn/tomato "relish." It also had a bit of tabbouleh, which I ate first, since it's my favorite.
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How long have you been on Zelnorm? Mine stopped working after just a short time!
I've been on zelnorm for about a year and a half. I think it worked fantastically for the first 6 months and then stopped working. My GI claims I should stay on it, though, and I guess I don't care enough to argue with him about it. I think it helps some.
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It is awesome that you have found a diet plan that works for you...that is all I really want too! Thank you so much. Pop in more often, as Wind said. You add a lot, especially for us struggling Cers!
Thanks! I used to be here more often, but I'm so incredibly busy with my job and going to school that I have little free time. I'll pop in when I can, though, and you all can email me anytime.
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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I got my 92 tablet box today and just took one pill. Here are the ingredients:
microcrystalline cellulose, ganedan lactobacillus cultures, silicate, dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stearate, and FD&C Red Lake #40
Don't see anything bad in there! Whooohoo! Back to feeling good once this kicks in!
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Elizabeth
all those years it wasn't IBS - it was celiac!
send me an email: liz@dopple.net
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as the old formula, Elizabeth! How long did it take to get to you?
The old version had cellulose, lactobacillius cultures, lysine, magnesium stearate, hydroxypropylmethylcellulose, maltodextrin, flavor, and FD&C blue lake, red sucrose specs.
So, it looks like they changed to formula. I hope it still works for you...please, please keep us updated! How have you felt being off of it? Any difference?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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You are taking this for C? Do you take it everyday, and once you get regular then you stop taking it or you are going to just take it on a regular basis?
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I was wondering about the sweetener stevia (sp??) Is this a natural sweentener or is this also considered an artifical sweetener??
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Have a blessed day!...Rachel
stable and sooooooo thankful!
I have IBS but it doesn't have me!
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Just wondered if D.A. is safe when pregnant. Anyone have a box handy? Does it say anything on it. I am not PG but am planning on it again and just wondered what it said.
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