prescription anti-spasmodics - what works for you?
#207077 - 08/20/05 08:16 PM
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jen1013
Reged: 05/06/05
Posts: 1322
Loc: the wabe
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I was prescribed Levsin over a year ago -- actually, I take the generic. I used to take it every once in awhile, but now I am up to 4 per day. It doesn't help the way it used to (though it was never all that great). I don't know if this is because my IBS has gotten so bad or because it just doesn't work anymore.
Are there other anti-spasmodics out there that might work better? without taking me out of action? I need something that I can take but still be able to drive and operate heavy machinery. OK, well, I guess I can forego the drill press, but I do have a long commute and have a very mentally challenging job so can't go around like a zombie.
I did do a search on this but didn't really find anything too helpful other than a lot of other people didn't have much luck with Levsin, either.
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Post deleted by Jeano
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I had Levsin for awhile... but my latest doctor gave me samples to try and the one that really worked for me (and really, really well) was Pamine Forte. I can't promise it will work for you (IBS and us, we're all different.  ) but I can suggest you give it a try. Good luck!
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Hyoscyamine (generic of Levbid) here, 3x a day. I used to take it once a day then I added a dose at noon and bed time. I seems to working for now. The cotton mouth is annoying but better than constant D anyday..  ...
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Franny
IBS/D
Celiac
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cause you worse constipation? How much do you take it everyday?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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But if the C is caused by your colon spasming - Heather's "charley horse" analogy - wouldn't the anti-spasmodics help with that and therefore help with the C?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I also take generic Levsin/Levbid. It's the sublingual version. I got the 'script for it in early February to take "as needed." At first I was taking it about 3 times a day and was in bed by 9PM most nights because it really wipes me out, too. I stopped taking it so often after about 3 weeks because I was getting a bit stable and because I like actually being awake and able to function during the day. Now I only have to take it once or twice a month and it slows the spasms nicely. So, in sort, Levsin is still working for me. I'm sorry you're not having good luck with it anymore.
I have an acquaintence who has had good luck with Bentyl, but I don't know any specifics.
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Never thought of this. Maybe I will ask my doc for some samples instead of assuming the worst from them.
I had some old sample of Pamine and Nulev, but I just tossed them because they expired over a year ago.  Never did try them.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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but I think it really varies from person to person.
Pamine dried me out so much I had nosebleeds all weekend the one weekend I took it. Generic Levbid worked for about 6 months, then gradually stopped working. I'm allergic to Bentyl (found that out the hard way, it makes my arms and legs shake, which I thought was weird, but it's a common allergic reaction to certain substances).
After that my GI tried antidepressants, but I have nasty side-effects to those (unbearable headaches and nausea), so I gave up. I use Heather's peppermint capsules and my heating pad.
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Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
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Hi Sand, Yes, if she were C and suffering from the thin stool
phenomenon like I am, but if she were C and didn't have thin
stools, then Beth would be correct. However, Jen1013 is D.
-Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Hi Beth, You mean my post ?! Nulev is the same as Levsin,
which is the same as Levbid. Pramine is methscopalime, and acts pretty much the same way as Levsin,Robinul, and Bentyl.
All of these have virtually the exact same side effects.
The only one I've found out that acts differently is this
one mentioned by Sinead, Colofac, which is mebeverine HCL.
It doesn't have most of the bad side effects these others
do. However, it is a British or Dutch drug and may not be
available in the US. I called my GI doc this past week
about getting it because it doesn't bother BPH, but I
still haven't heard from him, but he was only in his
office on friday, so it's not too surprising. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Why does it make a difference whether Cs have the "thin stool phenomenon" with regard to whether anti-spasmodics help?
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Edited by Sand (08/21/05 03:10 PM)
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Donnatol works for me, but it does have the dry-mouth, sleepy, sort of out of it side-effects. I've only tried the time-release version - I have a prescription for the non-time-release and am hoping it won't hit me as hard or at least not for as long.
I sometimes think the calming effect of the Donnatol carries over for a day or two, so maybe if you took it at night before bed, you'd get a little help the next day but the side-effects would have dissipated. Then with Imodium on top of that, Oh High Priestess, maybe that would be enough to keep things under control.
Here's a post recommending Donnatol and also Equalactin.
HTH.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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I think I'll make a list and bring to my doctor, but it sounds like Donnatol is probably going to be best. Not sure if I'll be OK taking that every day though. 
One question, though, can you guys find Equalactin at places like Wal-Mart, Target, whatever? I've never been able to find it. I look in the aisle with Imodium/Metamucil/etc., am I looking in the right place? I know I can get it off the Internet but I hate having to pay shipping for stuff if I can buy it here.
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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In the past 15 years or so, I have been on donnatol, bentyl, levsin, levbid, and librax. Donnatol didn't work, I was on it well over a year, Bentyl made me so jittery and have a racing heart I had to stop taking it, Levsin and Levbid, worked a short period of time and I have been with Librax for about 8 years. Even though I was taking it tid, I still had the most horendous spasm and cramping, and I do have the dry mouth thingy going on. Since Heather's diet, for almost 2 years now, I have cut the Librax down to 1 and bedtime. My attacks come at night. I still get the attacks, so IMO, I don't feel any of them have really worked for me, because of the pain, the severity and the frequency of the pain w/D. I am contemplating trying the Levsin since I'm on Heather's diet now and see if that helps. I was told by my GI doc, that the levsin should be taken q.i.d. for the best effectivity.............
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IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
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Equalactin
#207264 - 08/21/05 06:34 PM
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melitami
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 1213
Loc: Ewing, NJ, USA (IBS-D, Vegetarian)
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I've found it at CVS, with the Immodium and other tummy products.
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Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent
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that means "take 4 times a day". I took a medical terminology class when I worked in a hospital!
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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When I feel the first twinge of an attack I take a couple of Nu-Lev and if I am lucky it will kill the spasms before they get bad. I am a C and will take anything to stop the pain. It used to last only when I was actually 'going', but now I am in pain for hours. I hate IBS.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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--------------------
IBS-D, extreme pain and cramping - GERD - lactose/dairy intolerant, OCD, Fibromyalgia
DX: w/ Multiple Sclerosis 3/10
I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. Phil 4:13
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Sand, Spasms cause the thin stool phenomenon. When the colon
spasms it contracts down to a narrow opening causing the stool
to be extruded from a large diameter to a much smaller one
depending on how bad the contraction is. Anthem mentioned
this in a post a while back from some IBS book he has. So
if your stools are not thin, you're not having spasms. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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What do you mean when you say " It used to last only when I was actually 'going', but now I am in pain for hours"?
What used to only last when you were having BMs, and are you saying the Nu-Lev doesn't work at all anymore and you don't take it?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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When I was first diagnosed with IBS I was given three different prescriptions. Modulon 3 x/day, Buscopan 4x/day and Amitriptaline once at bedtime. I am finished with the Modulon ( took it for one month), the Buscopan is now on a need be basis, and the Amitriptaline is daily still. I really couldn't tell you what made my pains go away b/c I was on all three. I did have a little flare-up last week and popped a Buscopan, heated up my trusty bean bag and slept for one hour. I felt much better when I woke up.
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Sorry, I wasn't too awake when I wrote that.
I used to get the bad cramps and spasms while I was in the bathroom. When that "session" was over, I was weak, but didn't have cramps till the next time I had to go. Usually 3 or 4 trips to the bathroom and I was done. Now the spasms and cramps last for hours. Before I go, during going, and after I go. I get the sweats, feel light headed and somtimes have to lay on the floor because I don't want to faint and hit my head. The Nu-lev seems to stops the bad spasms from starting IF I take it in time. Sometimes I wait too long and I may be in pain for 12 hours.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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Sounds like you may be an A? And the Nu-Lev doesn't constipate you? I may have to give this anothr try, but I need to be awake at work! 
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Hi Everyone...
When first diagnosed 30 some years ago, I tried a variety of stuff, was scared and confused (panic attacks w/ D)
...I have to say my saving grace thru the years has been lomotil, whether generic or not, taken as needed...worst days 3 or 4, some days none, many days 1 or 1/2 in the morning to calm the anticipation and therefore get thru the day well...when going on a trip...starting the night before...
I tolerate it well, w/ little side affects, since my adrenalin is up when I need to take it, it must counteract the tiredness some people feel...I am working w/ several alternative therapies as well to help overcome the panic attacks, including the Hypnotherapy tapes...
Blessings to you all!
Elaine
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--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
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Re: Equalactin
#207412 - 08/22/05 09:10 AM
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Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
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My local CVS didn't stock it, but I talked to the pharamacist and he ordered it for me - it was there within 24 hours. And I agree about the shipping.
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[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Edited by Sand (08/22/05 09:10 AM)
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Hi Carol, Sorry to hear about your terrible symptoms, that
really sucks. I was wondering though, according to this
spasm theory that Anthem found, you should be suffering
from the thin stool phenomenon. I was curious if you do?
If you don't then there's something very fishy with this
theory. I hope your feeling better. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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it depends on whether or not Carol suffers from the thin stool
phenomenon, if not then it's back to the drawing board, if so,
then the theory might actually uniformly valid. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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Bob K.
#207473 - 08/22/05 11:23 AM
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Portageegal
Reged: 06/28/05
Posts: 940
Loc: Massachusetts
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Yup .... pencils, gummy worms, raisins, marbles and many other varieties.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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I only use my antispasmotics when I have an attack of D coming on. I am generally C, but sometimes food (or alcohol) will cause an attack of D, generally at 3 am, and the drugs cut down on the cramping and help with the attack. I also take them if I'm having a lot of abdominal pain from spasming. I don't take mine every day.
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I'm not really sure if I'm an A or not. After the last attack last week I went 6 days w/o a BM. I VERY seldom have D. When I have an attack it is formed, but soft. It just keeps coming and coming and coming. I have no control to push, hold back or anything. The Spaz monster is in control. I never had kids, but I have a feeling of what it must be like inside while having contractions. I think someone said "like squeezing toothepaste out of a closed tube". I am sore inside for days afterwards.
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Carol
nós somos o que nós somos e o descanso é merda
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Hi, Michelle, Buscopan is only available in Canada, it's not
FDA approved or available in the US, for who knows why. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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That is consistent with what Anthem found in that book of his.
Now if I could only find an antispasmodic that really works,
or some other way to stop the damn spasms. Thanks again. -Bob
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<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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I ran out of Levsin. I HATE it when I do stuff like that to myself. Anyway, I wasn't stressed about it cause I was like, big deal, it wasn't doing anything anyway. Well -- it WAS! I was without it for a day and was miserable. I took so much Imodium that a normal person wouldn't have a BM for a year (but I had two anyway). Got it filled again and feel SOOOO much better.
Unfortunately, "much better" is still REALLY LOUSY. I've been off birth control for almost two months now and the weird hormonal stuff seems to have passed, but my IBS is still horrid beyond belief. Could this still be due to BC? I am down to eating mainly applesauce and FF saltines during the week to keep my bathroom time at work down to a minimum. During the weekends I eat BTC-ish except for small quantities IBS-safe desserts. Either way there is no difference in how I feel.
I'm just so frustrated. It is especially depressing to read people's success stories and anniversaries when I have been sticking this out for over a year and still feel like garbage! Sorry, am having a little pity party over here. 
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Jen
#208975 - 08/26/05 06:24 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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I'm right there with you on the frustration. I've been at it as long as you without success. You're not alone there. I thought I was the only one who has been at it a long while without improvement.
At least the levsin gives you some relief, but maybe a different on would give you even better results. Hope we both find something that helps us...me with my C and you with your D.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
Edited by Augie (08/26/05 06:25 PM)
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Beth
#209023 - 08/26/05 08:26 PM
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jen1013
Reged: 05/06/05
Posts: 1322
Loc: the wabe
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Hey, glad to see you back! I was worried about you.
I kind of figure I can't get stable because I'm not taking a SFS. I haven't had any luck with them. I don't understand why. I am starting at such a tiny dose you wouldn't think my body would even notice.
I got started on a high-dosage zinc supplement and was great for two days, on day 3 I had the worst attack I've ever had. If I had been able to get more than five feet away from the bathroom I would've gone to the hospital. I stopped taking the zinc and now I don't know what to do about it. The doctor's office told me to keep taking it anyway and to make sure I took it with a light snack. It's like I just couldn't get them to understand how sick I was. I am thinking of starting up with a half-dosage and take it at bedtime. I don't know. I am sick of this!!!
But C must be even worse to manage than D. I don't envy you. Too bad we are at completely opposite sides or we could swap tips. Actually, maybe you need to give me tips on getting C and I'll tell you how to trigger D. ha ha.
Honestly, though, I don't have it that bad. I generally have one completely horrific D attack each month, and then maybe 2-4 mild attacks per week. So it could be a lot worse. However, to get to that state, right now each day I'm taking 4 Levsin, 6-8 Imodium, and 4-6 extra-strength Tylenol. I also drink a lot of plain hot water which helps soothe cramping. (I can't drink herbal tea. But plain hot water is really good after you get used to it. Really.) So I am constantly popping pills, and if I get busy at work and don't remember to pop said pills, I get reminded very quickly! I am also exhausted and in a lot of pain so I just can't handle much besides work. My husband doesn't really understand and I feel bad because I am such a stick-in-the-mud.
I'm sorry that you can't get any relief from your C. I sometimes wonder if you should start over -- toss out the supplements, start on the BTC diet, and start adding a lot more insoluble fiber. For someone who is C you don't seem to get much IF. Why is that? Is it just because you're afraid to incorporate it? I am much too chicken to add IF. I eat cornbread every once in awhile and I think that's about it.
I did the hypno CDs and they did absolutely nothing for my IBS. I wonder if this is because I've noticed zero correlation between stress and my IBS. Anyway, they definitely were very calming, and that sounds like something you could use! So if you'd like mine you're welcome to them.
I'm getting depressed about this because I want to have a baby next year. And how can I possibly have a baby if I need to take all those pills? I've heard Imodium is OK during pregnancy, but I doubt that they were basing this on 6 Imodium a day.
Whoa, I just previewed this post and it is super-long. Sorry! I've had a rough night. Thanks for listening (if you got this far  )
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Hey Jen...
#209068 - 08/27/05 09:28 AM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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That's so sweet of you to welcome me back. Here's why I've been AWOL Struggling I'm trying to come out of it, but it's hard when everything that caused me to get to that point is still present.
I know what you mean about the SFS. I never understood how a tiny 1/4 tsp of SFS could reek such havoc on a body. Especially when Heather says the SFS is just like SF food. SF food doesn't cause me such pain, so why does 1/4 tsp of SFS? I don't get it. I am currently trying to go the SFS route again...this time citrucel in am and psyllium (gulp) at night only. I also take flax in my cereal, but that is not recommended for you since you are D!
Why do you need to take Zinc? I think it is a good plan to take 1/2 dose at night to see how that goes. Yes, these medical professional who tell you to do it anyhow certainly have not experienced our pain! 
I thought I was getting too much IF, actually. Yes, it does scare me because I am already in such pain...and I always associate pain with IF after reading through the EFI and First Year books. I never think I have enough of an SF base with it. Like today, I had cream of brown rice cereal with cooked blueberries and flax. That is a lot of IF first thing in the morning! In fact, breakfast seems the easiest time to get my IF in and may be not the best...but I can't figure out a better eating regiment! Work gets in the way of having cooked veggies, etc. I am very very scared of many IF foods.
Thanks for the offer of the hypno CDs! I'm sorry they did not work for you. I think my stress and my IBS are very related, so I was sort of thinking th hypno might be my last hope. Are you serious about your offer?
Have you talked to your doctor about the safety of immodium during pregnancy at 6 a day? What does he/she say? Maybe you could call a pharmacist and ask.
Yes, I got through your whole post! I am know for getting pretty long in my posts too...there is just so much to say. I am working on being more succent!
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Hi Beth, Say, sorry about missing that thread. Unfortunately
I don't always check the other boards. I should start doing
that. Well, I see you slept in till 10 am, you must be feeling
a bit better:). Enjoy the baptism if you go, otherwise enjoy
sleeping in! Take care. -Bob
--------------------
<img src="http://www.math.mtu.edu/~rwkolkka/BritPicA.jpg">
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I did see your initial post and was one of the many people who responded! We all have to go through tough times, some tougher than others. I'm sorry that now is the time for you.
I am also bewildered by the SFS thing. But, there are several people here who have gotten stable without the SFS, so it's not necessarily mandatory. I am thinking of starting Acacia again only at 1/8 t each day and then going up to 1/4 t after 2-3 weeks. At that rate though I'd be in a nursing home before I worked up to a full dosage.
I have to take zinc because I'm deficient in it. It's not severe, but it's noticeable. My hair and nails are gross because of it. Next week is a three-day weekend so I am going to start again next Thursday night. It took three days to make me really ill, so I should be OK at work next Friday. I hope.
Why is breakfast the easiest time for you to get IF? Is that because you feel the best in the morning? I don't think you necessarily need a LOT of SF since you're a C. Maybe a muffin, or a piece of toast? I'm scared of food, too, but after a certain point you just have to try it. I always try new foods Friday night so I can stay home over the weekend if I get sick. You should go for it! It can't make you any worse, right???
I am totally serious about the hypno CDs. If you want them, let me know and I'll email you about them. (I don't want to put my address up, it has my name in it and I'm still paranoid about someone I know reading these boards). I don't know if you have troubles sleeping, but I found they were super for knocking me out right away. In fact, I STILL don't know what sessions 2-4 said, because I always fell asleep literally within a minute of starting the session.
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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Please email me at deerbeth@yahoo.com about the CD tapes! 
The reason I tend to get more IF in the morning is just because my food choice/preferance/taste moods just happen to coincide with foods that are more IF for breakfast. No other reason.
Let me know how the Acacia goes for you. I gather you are not taking any SFS now? And, yes, there are people on the board who do not take them...Casey, Tina, Amy, Rachel...just to name a few.
This post in particular confuses me. SFS because Heather refers to SFS as food...so why would it hurt when SF foods soothe most folks?
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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It does very little for me. Studies show it's just out there for the placebo effect.
--------------------
Keep on keepin' on...
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I will email you!
It's interesting that you get most of your IF at breakfast since w/ most people that's their toughest time. Most of the time I eat fat-free saltines or ff tortillas with a dab of RF PB. What's funny, though, is that when I have time (which these days is hardly ever), I eat cereal w/ soy milk for breakfast, and for a week straight I was eating a bowl full of cereal that was mainly IF, and didn't make me the slightest bit worse. I don't remember what kind it was -- it was a generic brand of something sugary (Froot Loops, maybe?) and it wasn't until the box was almost gone that I happened to realize that emblazoned on the front was "All whole grains!" I was too busy anxiously scanning for HFCS and dairy to actually pay attention to the stuff about the wheat!
yeah, the whole SFS thing has me baffled. But may as well give it another try. And though Heather refers to it as a food, she doesn't refer to it as a SF food ... so I figure it's probably kinda like an IF, handle with care. Although you're supposed to take the SFS before you eat, which you wouldn't do with an IF. OK, well, never mind that.
I used to envy people with C. Now I don't, because it seems like it's so much harder for a C to get stable. And it seems like Heather's advice is mainly geared toward the D people. Or maybe that's just my imagination because as a D I would tend to skim over the C stuff ...
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jen
"It's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle -- to get one's head cut off." -- LC
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I have tried Levsin but was not happy with that. I have taken Donnatol in the past and it really seemed to work. I am on a trial period right now on Rubinol Forte which is once a day so that I do not have to take the Donnatal 3-4x per day- I have only taken it for 4 days so far and I am not convinced yet- still thinking about picking up the donnatol again!!
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I've made a progression over the years. I started out on (gee...can't remember the name...think it starts with a b) lol and then was switched to levbid/levsin. Now I take Librax. It's a combination of an antispasmodic and Librium. When I first switched, my pharmacist (they know me by name there, lol) said, "Boy, they've switched you to something REALLY strong!" He said be careful with it because it is addictive due to the librium. Since a lot of my D symptoms are made much worse by stress, the Librax has helped a lot. I'm supposed to take it four times a day, but most days, I just take it in the morning and on bad days, I take it at lunch just in case. It works for me. 
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Just came across your post. I have had good luck with the antidepressant Ludiomil (generic). Just a low dose helps and I'm sensitive to side effects. The only one I had is constipation which is bad because I'm IBS-C but it really helps the spams. Just have to take something for the constipation.
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