Fruits, veggies, SF, IF, peel, chop, cook (long post)
#185243 - 06/09/05 03:02 PM
|
|
|
|
Sand
Reged: 12/13/04
Posts: 4490
Loc: West Orange, NJ (IBS-D)
|
|
|
This is pretty much in response to the Q&A in this thread. I was finding it very difficult to navigate the different streams of conversation, so I decided to break this out into a new thread.
I had already pretty much put these thoughts together before Heather's last post in the existing thread, so I decided to go ahead and post it. I hope this helps clarify things, rather than muddying the waters more.
I came up with this based on a close reading of what Heather has to say about the various fruits and vegetables, a little Web research, and some common sense. If anyone see something I've gotten wrong, please say so.
Here's how I think about soluble fiber fruits and vegetables versus insoluble fiber fruits and vegetables. It's a continuum. Most fruits and vegetables have some SF and some IF. In general, peelable fruits and vegetables have more IF in their peel than in their innards.
Let's look at specifics.
Here are the foods Heather identifies as Soluble Fiber:
Rice; Pasta and noodles; Oatmeal; Barley; Fresh white breads; Rice cereals; Flour tortillas; Soy; Quinoa; and Corn meal - these are not fruits and vegetables where the issue of peeling arises.
Applesauce - the issue of peeling does not arise; it's all soluble fiber
Avocados; Bananas; Mangoes; and Papayas - you always peel these; the insides are soluble fiber
Chestnuts - you don't eat the shell; the insides are soluble fiber
Mushrooms - you eat the whole thing; all soluble fiber
Pumpkins - you don't eat the skin/shell; the insides are soluble fiber; the seeds are insoluble fiber
Squash, zucchini and yellow - the insides are soluble fiber; the skins are insoluble fiber
Squash, all others (e.g., acorn, butternut, spaghetti) - you don't eat the skin/shell; the insides are soluble fiber
Turnips - the insides are soluble fiber; the skins are almost certainly insoluble fiber
Carrots - the whole thing is soluble fiber; you can peel them if you want, but it's not necessary
Parsnips - just like carrots
Rutabagas - you don't eat the skin; the inside is soluble fiber
Beets and rutabagas - I don't eat these, but from what I can tell, you don't eat the skin; the insides are soluble fiber
Potatoes - the insides are soluble fiber; the skins are insoluble fiber
Yams, Sweet potatoes - the insides are soluble fiber; the skins are insoluble fiber
Other fruits and vegetables are more IF than SF. Chopping and cooking does NOT change the IF to SF. It just makes it easier for your digestive tract to break the food down, so it doesn't have to work as hard. Digestion is the process of breaking down the bonds that hold food together. Chopping breaks these bonds down mechanically, cooking breaks them down chemically. These two processes do some of the work for your digestive system - chopping is like chewing, cooking is like digestion. Even after chopping and cooking, however, you are still left with IF, albeit partially "digested" for you.
Based on what I'm seeing in Heather's list of Insoluble Fiber, here's what I think the deal is with peeling:
If you peel apples, pears, peaches, nectarines, and apricots, you're left with soluble fiber. If you peel and seed eggplant, tomatoes, and cucumbers, you greatly reduce the amount of IF, but there is still some left. If you peel bell peppers, you reduce the amount of IF somewhat.
I found these 2 quotes from the Insoluble Fiber FAQ especially valuable:
Quote:
The second rule to remember here is that while you should be having lots of fresh fruits and veggies every day, make sure you cook, peel, chop, seed, dice, and/or puree most or even all of them. Peeling and seeding fruits and veggies will remove the toughest insoluble fiber altogether. Chopping, cooking, and pureeing will mechanically break down the insoluble fiber in fruits, vegetables, beans, and nuts before you eat it, making it much less likely to provoke problems.
Quote:
It's also helpful to make sure you're already eating as much of the healthiest soluble fiber foods as possible: root veggies (sweet potatoes, pumpkin, beets, rutabagas, carrots, etc.), mangoes, bananas, peeled apples and peeled pears, peeled peaches and apricots, and avocados.
For a brief description of the "inside SF, outside IF" idea, take a look at the
Both fibers FAQ.
HTH.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I was just going to do this, because the various threads of conversation were too hard for me to navigate as well!
In short form, if you're relying on peeled fruit as your main source of insoluble fiber, you are probably not getting enough... because it's mostly soluble at that point.
Cooking, chopping, pureeing, grating, etc are methods of breaking up the insoluble fiber to make it easier to digest. They do not remove the insoluble fiber, nor do they make the foods soluble fiber.
Really, if you stop to think about it, it's totally common sense. The texture of what you're eating will tell you a lot about how soluble/insoluble it is. If you peel something and remove everything that's "tough", what you're left with is pretty much soluble fiber.
I'd also like to remind everyone that it's very important to eat as much INsoluble fiber as you can tolerate. It's necessary for EVERYONE's good health, but especially in the case of C'ers, it's VERY necessary to keep things moving. Like Linz, in trying to catch up with the discussion, I was realizing that I'm eating more IF than a lot of C'ers - and I'm not a C!
The diet comes down to 2 simple things to remember:
1. Avoid the blatant trigger foods - dairy, red meat, fat, caffeine.
2. Eat as much insoluble fiber as you can, but make it SAFE by eating it with a soluble fiber "base".
That's it! 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Not just "Picture Pixie", but "Pithy Pixie", too! Thanks, Casey.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
Microscopic Colitis, IBS-A, GERD, Hiatal Hernia
Bethany, Ontario, Canada
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Wow that is very helpfull a kind of at a glance do's and don'ts.cheers for taking the time to do this .i know its what is already in the books but by breaking it down it makes it clearer.nice one.
impxx
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
(This is really an update to my original post, but I just wasn't up to editing that monster, so, yes, I'm talking to myself.)
Once I read this series of Q&A in the old thread:
Question
Answer
Question
I realized I needed to think harder - or differently - about cooking SF fruits and vegetables. Here's what I came up with and posted over there:
My Answer
The devil really is in the details.
HTH.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
--------------------
IBS-D
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
On this quote from Heather:
"The second rule to remember here is that while you should be having lots of fresh fruits and veggies every day, make sure you cook, peel, chop, seed, dice, and/or puree most or even all of them."
This post makes it seem like everyone should almost always cook, and peel all fruits and veggies. But, being a C person, wouldn't it make sense to eat some peels (like on zucchini) and not to have to cook things like nectarines.
Heather's post does not say "only if you are prone to D should you do this. It seems like she is saying everyone with IBS should usually always cook and peel/puree them.
Am I wrong to eat a fresh unpeeled nectartine, or unpeeled zucchini to help increase IF since I am Constipated?
Sorry, I thought I understood...but right when I think I have it....
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
If IF is key for C'ers ... why do we have to make it "safe". What is "unsafe" about it?
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
IF is like a catch-22 for both C'ers and D'ers - our bodies need it both for good health and good gut function, but for people with sensitive guts (i.e. those with IBS) IF can be difficult to tolerate. Basically, if you don't treat IF with care (by having it after SF etc.), it will greatly hurt instead of help by sending your gut into spasms and leading to C or D, depending on which way you lean. So, we NEED IF, but we have to be careful with it - and the best way to be careful with it is WHEN you eat it (always after some/with SF and never by itself especially on an empty stomach) and HOW you eat it (chopped, peeled, pureed, cooked etc. as Sand as so beautifully laid out! ).
If you're still confused, read or re-read through some of the pages in the diet section on this site - Heather explains the IF thing in great detail.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Just a bit of a shot in the dark here Beth... but I think this really hinges on how much IF each person can tolerate, whether C or D. I do think that there are some general statements you can make about the differences between IBS-C and IBS-D and the slightly different approaches C'ers and D'ers should take to the diet. For example, IF is more important to C'ers to 'get things moving' and should be treated with greater care by D'ers because it's probably more likely to casue a D attack. BUT I do think that everyone's individual tolerance of IF is different and that's kind of just something we need to figure out for ourselves...?
Now as you know I'm not C, but from my understanding of the diet I think everyone, C or D, benefits from chopping/peeling/etc. because all it does is change the 'shape' of the IF to make it more digestible - the IF is still going in no matter what and it's still doing all it's good fibery duties  right? But I also don't think that everyone who is on the diet needs to chop, cook, puree etc. all the time. Personally, for most fruits and veggies, I do. I cook all my veggies all the time and puree most of them. But I also know that some folks can eat say, raw carrots, very safely (I'm thinking specifically of Elizabeth here, who is C). Again, I think that probably has a bit to do with the C/D difference and a bit to do with the personal IF-tolerance... in general, C'ers are probably more tolerant to IF than D'ers, but, again, I think we all need to come to an understanding of our own bodies' ability to tolerate IF.
....Does that make any sense?
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I understand what you are saying about pureeing and chopping keeping the IF intact, but just easier to digest. But what I don't understand still, is Heathers quote that ""The second rule to remember here is that while you should be having lots of fresh fruits and veggies every day, make sure you cook, peel, chop, seed, dice, and/or puree most or even all of them."
It would seem that the C people could eat unpeeled fruits if not every time. Like, I eat pureed blueberries and usually an unpeeled piece of fruit later. It seems like Heather's quote says you should peel them all the time...but this would take away the IF, unlike it does when you just cook/puree them. It seems to suggests that C and D people peel them...and it doesn't mention tolerances.
Am I missing something...besides my mind! 
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Seems to me that you could pretty safely leave the peel on, and then puree them. That way you are still getting the IF but in a broken down form. Heather's quote does say "and/or," not "every one of these things." Try that and see how it goes. You know that C's need a lot more IF than D's do, just supplied in a way that won't cause you to cramp and lock up.
--------------------
Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You need IF, so you should not remove it all from your diet. How you keep it in there depends on your individual tolerance.
There is a world of difference between the effects of peeling and seeding and the effects of cooking, chopping, dicing, and pureeing. The former actually removes IF, the latter merely alters it. All we need consider here is the effect of peeling and seeding.
Some fruits and vegetables either must be peeled/seeded (oranges) or cannot be peeled/seeded (broccoli). The only decisions to be made here are whether to eat them and, if so, whether to cook, chop, dice, puree. Doing so or not doing so will not alter the amount of IF. There is nothing further to consider here.
Therefore, all we need to consider further are fruits and vegetables where you can choose between eating them with peels/seeds and eating them without. There are two types of these foods to consider:
First, there are foods that, when peeled and seeded, contain only or mostly SF. Example: nectarines. If you can tolerate eating a whole raw unpeeled nectarine, you should do so. If not, then you must cook, chop, dice, puree it with its skin on to make it digestible and still count as IF. If you peel it, you cannot count it as IF anymore.
Second, there are foods that, when peeled and seeded, are still only or mostly IF. I can only think of two examples: tomatoes and cucumbers. If you can tolerate eating these with peels and seeds, you should do so to get maxium IF. If not, you can peel and/or seed them and still count them as IF.
HTH.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I have one question... I find when I eat any veggie I have problems.. what about baby food vegetables???? 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
If you can tolerate them (taste-wise that is) then baby food - bought or your own homemade (i.e. just pureed veggies) - are a good safe option to getting vegetables in your diet. Still make sure you're eating it with SF though - as with everything!
Have you tried doing a search on 'babyfood'? It's come up before
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks, for the info, I am trying to get out of a cycle and I know I need to eat veggies.. It seems no matter what type of veggie I eat with any kind of SF I still have pain and D, so I thought I would try baby food... Thanks again!! 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Baby food veggies taste really gross!!! Do you have a food processor? (I do, and it's a worthwhile investment) It's so easy and YUMMY to make your own pureed veggies that can turn into AWESOME SAUCES, etc. Trust me--they taste infinitely better. It's FAST and it's CHEAP, too!!! It's as simple as steaming a veggie or combo of veggies and blending it. Plus, the selection of babyfood veggies are highly limited. Just a thought. It works for me.
Also, a food processor is great for smoothies, etc.
Kate, IBS-D.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Thanks for the suggestion... I will try that also.. I guess I am still in the first two years of being diagnosed and I still feel like I can't eat anything without it hurting... I will invest and see what happens... Thanks!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
My life changed radically with that food processor. I hardly ate for a few years, too. Now, I eat lots and safely too. I was inspired, by a Food T.V. show--"THE SURREAL GOURMET." There was an episode where just about all the food was pureed and presented on a painters palatte--"Barbie Food!" The only fruits I ate were babyfood fruits and applesauce. THE THOUGHT OF VEGGIES, then, gave me NIGHTMARES! Now, they're usually a delight.
Good luck, and "baby steps."
Kate.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
Posts
