"Breaking The Cycle" questions
#163428 - 03/23/05 03:33 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am currently doing the "breaking the cycle" portion of the diet to see if it will help me. I read Heather's description of this phase but have a few questions. She says to restrict foods to nothing but soluble fiber, and then mentions "white rice, instant oatmeal, dry corn or oat or rice cereals, pasta, white bread, etc"
She does not mention the other soluble fiber foods such as: bananas, mangoes, papayas, yams, squash, beets, quinoa. Was that intentional? Would a smoothie with rice milk, bananas and papaya be safe?
What is the rational behind "dry" cereal rather than cereal with rice milk?
I want to make sure I am eliminating all trigger foods in this phase - and at the same time, I'm hoping to continue eating at least the safe soluble fiber fruits and veggies if they are not triggers. Let me know what you all think.
Thanks,
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi Chris,
When Heather talks about soluble fiber only for the Breaking the Cycle diet, she is talking about the safest soluble fiber foods that will help ease your stomach from whatever IBS upset it is going through to get it more stable.
Unfortunately, the smoothie would not work as rice milk is an insoluble fiber. This is also why Heather mention "dry" cereal.
I would stick to the foods that Heather mentions at first and then start to add other soluble fibers. Rice, potatoes, pasta, etc. are typically the easiest foods for IBSers to digest.
If you're really having a problem with your IBS lately, stick to the bland foods for a day or two and then slowly start to add others.
--------------------
- Jennifer
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
When I did this I had just rice or pasta and every day added a new food, mushrooms first, then chicken, then peas, then white fish, carrots etc until I found my feet again. Introducing protein like a baked chicken breast really helped my strength and health
Good luck and definitely stay away from that smoothie, eat WHITE for a couple of days first.
--------------------
S.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I hear both of you suggesting that I stick with bread, rice, pasta for the first few days. I can do that. But can you help me to understand why bananas, papaya and all of the other soluble fiber foods would be left out of this first phase?
I don't get why rice milk would be insoluble fiber. I just checked the label on my rice milk (Pacific Foods) and it says 0g and 0% fiber. Not trying to argue here, just to understand...
Also forgot to ask about sweeteners, i.e. is it okay to put honey on the bread or in the oatmeal?
Thanks again everyone.
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi Chris,
Actually rice milk is neither soluble or insoluble. It's been strained of all solids and is pretty much flavored water by that point. You should be fine eating bananas or any other soluble fruits or veggies during breaking the cycle. (I personally can't live without my bananas during an uneasy day)
One thing I would be careful of with a smoothie is that it can be cold. Try having it with toast or cereal, not on an empty stomach. Cold foods can be a trigger, because they can make your stomach muscles contract. This is why hot tea is so good, it helps the muscles relax. Or if you're feeling really unstable, you may not want to try a smoothie at all. Eating a banana or papaya (or any soluble fruit) not cold may be easier for you during this time.
Honey is okay to sweeten things.
Good luck!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I think the idea is to avoid food that might cause a reaction. For instance if someone wanted soy milk on their cereal but wasn't getting better at all they might have an intolerance to soy and that would get in the way. I think sugars of all kinds are allowed. Just keep in mind that flavorings/herbs/spices and the like need to be used sparingly so you aren't inadvertantly causing problems. I don't speak from experience as I never did the break the cycle diet. But I don't want to discourage people from doing it. I think that rice milk along with a few other things are what I call "neutral" they aren't either SF or IF. (I could be wrong).
--------------------
IBS-A for 20 years with terrible bloating and gas. On the diet since April 2004. Remember this from Heather's information pages:
"You absolutely must eat insoluble fiber foods, and as much as safely possible, but within the IBS dietary guidelines. Treat insoluble fiber foods with suitable caution, and you'll be able to enjoy a wide variety of them, in very healthy quantities, without problem." Please eat IF foods!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
...with some of the SF veggies - bananas is often a culprit, or mushrooms. SO if you don't know whether these are ok for you, then cut them out too. The whole point of breaking the cycle is to give your bod a rest from ALL triggers.
Personally, I'm fine with well-cooked carrots, room temperature mango and squash. Oh and avocado - but I'm less sensitive to fats than some (which is why avocadoes can be a problem SF food).
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Well, based on everyone's feedback I decided to play it safe. For two days I've had bread, potatoes, white rice, instant oatmeal and peppermint tea. The spasms and pain have reduced somewhat but I still have a lot of gas and I am REALLY constipated. I also feel very tired and kind of foggy-headed. I will continue this for a couple more days and report back. Thanks for your feedback.
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Chris:
Personally, I have problems with the "breaking the cycle" instructions. I'm sorry to say, but I think the instructions are confusing and not in-depth enough for people, especially newcomers to this website (which is probably why you are confused and posting questions), and I think some of the foods that are recommended would cause discomfort. For example, oatmeal can be a problem for some IBS people and can take some adjustment to possibly tolerate.
Having battled IBS all of my life, and having gained a great deal of experience (I think!) on how to deal with it, I would recommend the following foods to get yourself on the road to being stable:
- plain mashed potatoes
- protein in the form of plain baked or boiled chicken breast with the skin removed. I think protein is essential or your blood sugar will drop and you will become foggy-headed (as you have already described). Although I've been voted down on this board on the "organic" subject, I would nevertheless recommend eating organic chicken. I get sick from conventional chicken because I believe the antibiotics and harmones, etc. used in conventional chicken can cause IBS discomfort. A light type of fish meat is also a good protein source -- for example, trout (baked is good). I don't recommend salmon to start because it will be "heavier" on your stomach.
- plain boiled peeled carrots (again, preferably organic)
- French or white bread that is from a good bakery and that contains NO milk products and preferably NO additives. The ideal thing is to bake your own in a bread-making machine and then you can control the ingredients.
- Steamed white rice. I find what works best for me is organic basmati white rice, which I buy at a health food store.
-Peppermint tea (preferably organic). However, if you suffer from acid reflux, stay away from Peppermint tea and try fennel or camomile tea instead. However, if you also suffer from ragweed (hayfever) allergy, stay away from the camomile tea and just have the fennel tea.
- Plain, non-carbonated, bottled water served at room temperature. (Evian is the best -- and most expensive, of course!) If you are IBS-C, drink lots of water and get lots of exercise to help regulate yourself.
I don't personally recommend pasta to start because for some reason it bothers my stomach. The other things I've mentioned above I know from experience are very soothing when you are trying to get stable.
For breakfast, I recommend a plain white-flour bagel or French or white bread (again from a good bakery)with a little babyfood sauce like apple sauce, which contains no additives, smeared on the top in lieu of jam. (I also spread a little organic Earth Balance buttery spread, which I find is fine for my IBS.)
A tip for buying milk-free bread products is to go to a Jewish bakery, which sells "parve" bread. If it is parve, it will not contain any milk products.
Once you feel better, you could start adding more fibre into your diet -- acacia, which Heather sells, is good, but start with VERY SMALL amounts until your system adjusts. Start with more soluble fibre and, as you improve, begin to add small quantities of insoluble fibre, but eat the insoluble fibre WITH LOTS OF SOLUBLE FIBRE.
My other advice is to stay away from prepared foods as much as possible and make your own food because that way you have the most control over your food intake. I do not recommend eating anything with chemicals or additives. And, as I've already said, I recommend eating organic. My opinion is a natural approach is the best way to taming IBS.
After a lifetime of agony, I have been pain-free for almost two years now. I hope you feel better very soon.
Belinda
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Belinda,
I'm very grateful for your post and it resonates with my own experience and philosophy with diet and healing. I agree with you on the organic issue - practically everything I buy/eat is organic and unprocessed. Thankfully I live in a place (San Francisco) with every imaginable food alternative within easy reach.
The other confusing aspect of this is that I'm quite sure there's something going on in addition to IBS. This all started with a bad case of parasites and dysentery and I'm not at all convinced my intestinal environment is free of pathogens. Another possibility, one suggested by my current doc (a specialist in this area), is that the prolonged stress of having a parasitic infection has severely weakened my immune system and so I am now dealing with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia as well.
The diet he suggests for healing the immune system (and he has some authority in this area, backed by a lot of research) is very different from the IBS diet in some ways. He basically suggests no flour and no sugar (fruit is okay), with high doses of protein to increase body cell mass, anaerobic conditioning (weightlifting), pharmaceutical-grade vitamin/mineral supplements, etc.
The problem for me has been that a lot of the foods that are "healthy" (i.e. veggies, beans, fruits, other insolubles) really irritate my gut. The foods that don't seem to irritate my gut (white rice, white bread, bananas, etc) make me feel tired, foggy-headed and bloated. They are also the very foods that my doc (and many others) consider to be "unhealthy", at least for someone healing from a chronic illness.
I often feel overwhelmed and confused by the incredible disagreement about nutrition, diet and healing - even for one particular condition like IBS. At the end of the day, I guess the only thing that matters is what works for each of us. But that can be very difficult to figure out, and takes tremendous patience and willingness to experiment with diets and programs that are often severely restrictive and labor intensive.
Guess this has become a bit of a rant... probably needed to vent. I've been feeling really helpless and kind of desperate lately.
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Hi Chris,
I'm also from the Bay Area, although I'm all the way down in San Jose. Do you have Kaiser as your health coverage? They have actually recommended Heather's books to me (although I already knew about them at the time) and have been really helpful with my IBS. My aunt, who is a psychiatrist, has also told me they have a great IBS program, although I haven't see it. I was going to get more details but then had to switch insurances (long story).
Just thought I'd share that with you if you are fortunate enough to have Kaiser.  And yes, we are fortunate in California to have access to a lot of health foods.
Belinda had some great advice for you, as did lots of other people. Please remember that everyone is different, though. So what may have worked for one person might not necessarily work for another.
--------------------
- Jennifer
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
No, unfortunately I do not have Kaiser health coverage. Though I do have a fantastic doctor (the specialist I referred to) whose name is, strangely enough, Dr. Kaiser.
Everyone IS different, which is what makes following diet program like Heather's kind of tricky. On the one hand, I want to be willing to try something new and different, even if it uncomfortable and doesn't fit completely with my experience. Why? Because I'm still struggling incredibly and that means I obviously haven't figured it out on my own. On the other hand, it's important (as everyone is pointing out) to recognize all of our bodies (and our IBS's :>) are different, and what works for Heather or someone else here may not work for me.
That's where it gets confusing.
I guess trial and error is the only way to really find out.
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Chris:
I understand your difficulties with the IBS diet and the fact it's in direct opposition to you getting healthy on other fronts. I have blood sugar problems myself (diabetes is rampent in my family) and so the IBS diet is not ideal for me either.
I find it all boils down to this. I cannot endure living in pain and having D or C all the time. So I find the IBS diet has to take precedence over my other health issues, or I would be unable to function in society. What else can I do? It's kind of like a balancing act, but the scale is tipped dramatically towards IBS so I can find the strength to juggle the rest!
I love San Francisco! My boyfriend lives in Sunnyvale, CA and I travel to your area six times a year! My next trip is scheduled for May.
I've found a few good food products in your area. For example, the Earth Balance buttery spread is available at Trader Joe's. On my last trip, I bought Yehuda matzoh at Andronico's supermarket in Palo Alta. It's a great cracker/snack food alternative -- made with just water and white flour and no additives! Whenever I travel into San Francisco on the Caltrain for the day, I bring an insulated lunchbag (with freezer packs) with my own sandwich -- made with two slices of French bread (which my boyfriends bakes for me!), some Earth Balance and homemade fresh slices of chicken breast. Alas, so far in five years of visiting San Francisco, I haven't found an IBS-safe restaurant to eat at there.
Belinda
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Actually rice milk is neither soluble or insoluble. It's been strained of all solids and is pretty much flavored water by that point.
Hmm.. I didn't know this. Thank you for correcting me, Mags.
--------------------
- Jennifer
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Belinda,
Next time you're in San Francisco/Bay Area...
For groceries: Rainbow Grocery on 10th and Folsom has absolutely everything you could possibly every want if you're interested in health/nutrition. It's considered the best health food store (and it's HUGE) in the country. (it is vegetarian though, can't buy meat there). Whole Foods is also a wonderful organic/alternative market with a lot of hot/prepared foods that could serve as a restaurant when you come to town.
You might also want to check out Asqew (all free-range organic meats, very healthy) on Haight St., Plutos on Irving st./8th (simple, healthy meals - not organic though) and Cafe Gratitude on 20th & Harrison (mostly raw, but amazing place).
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
that everyone is different. Makes the diet very hard to follow. I thought if a food was listed as a safe soluble eat without risk food, such as mushrooms or bananas, it would be okay. Didn't realize that it isn't okay for some! Frustrating and confusing. 
That does make this diet confusing! Plus, not all people can tolerate the peppermint capsules or SFS which are highly recommended. That confused me as well.
Oh well, on with the trial and error. I am just so disappointed there isn't one or even two "recipes" for feeling better that would work for all the pain and symptoms we have! I have yet to find my answers.
Good luck and keep in touch!
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
You have to think of Heather's diet as a set of "guidelines". This means that her diet has helped a lot of IBSers, but may need to be adapted to your own needs. Sometimes people only need to change one or two things - sometimes a ton of things.
Unfortuantely there's no magic solution to IBS. But at least you have tons of support here on the boards from people who know what you're going through.
--------------------
- Jennifer
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
The support is AWESOME! You guys are the greatest. It's the one blessing that has come from the IBS, meeting some of the kindest, most generous people that give unconditional support through the pain and struggles and frustration.
Thanks for reminding me of that!
I just wish I could move a little bit forward in my healing with this diet. I just don't know what I am doing wrong from the others of you who have found such relief with Heather's diet. It's just disheartening at times.
--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
SCD diet...
#163824 - 03/24/05 03:30 PM
|
|
|
|
|
mindyj
Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia
|
|
|
Chris,
It sounds like the diet that your doctor has described is the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate) diet. I know there are people with IBD that have done well with this regime, but I've also heard it's not a good choice for those with IBS. I know the BTC diet can be constipating and can worsen problems with anemia, but that's why it's only advisable for a short time (a few days, certainly no more than a week). There are just SO many things that could potentially for someone be a trigger and it really is just meant to slow things down for your body a few days. Are you taking a soluable fiber supplement? This may help with the constepation while on the BTC diet. I remember thought that I did add a few things to my rice during that phase - I added some balsamic vinegar, fenel seeds and egg whites for a more salty type mix and things like honey, lime juice, slices of dry mango, nutmeg and ginger for a sweeter type rice. I also put ketchup on my baked potatoes. Some variety for the taste buds can help alittle. Hope things get better for you. You really seem to be working hard to find something that will work for you and I'm sure your efforts will be fruitful in the end - keep us updated.
Min
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
ahhh!all this is so confusing!im in the breaking the cycle mode too!it sucks!i hate it!!everything is plain!i had 5 bananas today!hope that wasant to much!!i want to have soy milk in my ceral but i dont know if this is ok!i eat pasta and i seem to be doing ok..isant that werid how everyones different!!:P
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Thank you!
#163879 - 03/24/05 09:05 PM
|
|
|
|
belinda
Reged: 10/09/03
Posts: 474
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
|
|
|
Chris:
Thank you for letting me know about these places! I will definitely try them out! I hadn't heard of any of them except for Whole Foods, which opened a store here in Toronto a couple of years ago and which I know has an amazing selection of food.
I've also been to the Whole Foods stores in Palo Alto and Cupertino, but it's a battle to get parking there because the stores are so popular!
I wonder if you could suggest a good place near Union Square where I could get a simple bowl of plain steamed rice. I would enjoy some steamed rice with my packed lunch when I am in San Francisco, but I'm not sure where I could find a bowl -- other than in nearby Chinatown, but I'm leary of going to restaurants there without knowing which are the recommended ones.
When I'm in Palo Alto I go to a Japanese restaurant on University Avenue just a block away from the Caltrain station. The waiters turn a blind eye when I order a bowl of rice and then eat the rice with my own plain baked chicken which I bring with me! (Maybe they turn a blind eye because I always leave them a good tip!) I wish could find a similar place in the Union Square area.
Belinda
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
As a C, you have to be really careful nt to go without IF for very long at all. By now I would suggest you should be starting to add in (very safely done) IF veggies. And don't go without protein for more than a couple of days at the most!  That'll be why you're so tired! Add in safe protein options now too.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Belinda,
I wish I did know a "safe" place in Union Square. I do know there are several Japanese restaurants down there (one comes to mind on Powell, up the hill from Border's Bookstore) and perhaps you could do the same thing there that you do in Palo Alto.
Good luck!
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
It's not actually the SCD diet. I am familiar with that one (and just about every other) and have tried it without success. His guidelines are simply no flour, no sugar, restrict dairy to less than 10% of diet, no processed foods, lots of protein.
There is another diet out there which I believe, based on everything I know about nutrition (2 years of Med school, 7 years of daily research) to be the most powerful healing diet out there. It's called the Body Ecology Diet (http://www.bodyecologydiet.com). I hope to be able to modify it in some way so it works for me (and my IBS).
Chris
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Actually rice milk is neither soluble or insoluble. It's been strained of all solids and is pretty much flavored water by that point.
Hmm.. I didn't know this. Thank you for correcting me, Mags.
Hey Jen,
Didn't mean to seem like I was.  Actually, it stood out to me, because I'd always wondered what it was and Heather answered it for someone else a long time ago. But, at least I could pass on some of our queen's wisdom. 
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
I'm also in San Jose. I have Kaise, though, I have to say, it really depends on your doctor there. The first doctor I had listened to my list of complaints and all she did was give me a perscription for an antacid. I finally switched doctor last year after getting tired of being ignored and my new doctor is great. I went to see her the first time, explained my situation ans she diagnosed me with IBS (finally, after so many years!). I ended up finding Heather's book on my own, but when I go back to see her, I plan on telling her about the book and having her reccomend it for others with IBS.
I have a question for those in the South Bay area, so you know of an IBS support group in the area? I know there's one in San Francisco, but I really don't feel like driving up there. I am looking to join a support group in SIlicon Valley, or, perhaps start on if none exist. if you have any info, or are interested in a group, post a response here or e-mail me. kelly@mythiccreations.net
--------------------
Do not despair because a rose has thorns, rejoice because a thornbush has roses.
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
|
|
Monica - Welcome to the Boards. Pork is considered a red meat on Heather's diet and all red meats are triggers and should be avoided.
I find it easier to think in terms of what meat I can eat: white meat chicken, white meat turkey, and all seafood. All other meats are triggers.
I know this is your first post and I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Website and/or the diet, so if you need help navigating around, please say so.
--------------------
[Research tells us fourteen out of any ten individuals likes chocolate. - Sandra Boynton]
Print
Remind Me
Notify Moderator
|
Posts
