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Re: I don't think so. I started all this because .... new
      #158435 - 03/08/05 04:10 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

wow this woman sounds AWFUL...you really tried it for a long time...I got the same reaction from the acacia...not knowing whether to throw up or have D and all that pressure in my belly...do NOT go near that stuff again...

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: WOW...I took a nap and woke up to find this! new
      #158439 - 03/08/05 04:14 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

you are such a cutie!! hugs to you...
its sooo worth giving up sugar...esp for those with health problems...I am currently going through a healing crisis after changing my diet one month ago back to a naturopathic one (I change around - try to experience things myself)...it involves having my chronic ibs symptoms as acute ones - nausea, sweats, pimples, mucous, endless pooing, weakness, etc etc - but my emotional and mental health is sooooo good. I am always willing to help anyone that needs help....

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Dalia new
      #158443 - 03/08/05 04:23 PM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

hope you are doing OK, that sounds a bit nasty.
On your advice I am eating brown rice, I like it so much more than white anyway- is the Uncle Bens (not the boil in the bag the box) one OK or do they put bad stuff in it?

I am a little off track with cheating a lot and have put on weight not good in a wedding year, I am going back to the gym next week (DIY has ruled it out lately, even P and I's late night walks have disappeared too since we are so wrecked)

Will start reporting in on the lifestyle board if I don't get the motivation next week!



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S.

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Re: Dalia new
      #158458 - 03/08/05 05:15 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

hey beautiful bride!!
did you get my email? I sent you one today finally...sorry its been so long - parents visit and then nausea etc...fun fun fun :-)
I have to check the uncle bens next time I go to the shop..but ideally I would recommend choosing a brown rice that is organic if you can afford it..I have a feeling the uncle bens may not be as nutritious...I'll check it out. but good for you for going brown! how is belly liking it? the higher fibre you eat the less weight you'll put on by the way.
don't worry about the weight gain - it'll drop off..ALL brides lose weight from the adrenaline..whether or not they intend to..plus, you were tiny when I saw you - gorgeous figure - it'll drop off.
Love you XXXX

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: Dalia ... (LONG) new
      #158461 - 03/08/05 05:32 PM
dozyveeny

Reged: 09/26/04
Posts: 273
Loc: UK

... I didn't know you were a naturopath either! - but I do know that lots of people on the board are very interested in alternative medicine - myself included - that's why I tried to make it clear that I wasn't taking shots at anyone here. Lucky the patient with IBS who comes to you for help - not only do you have firsthand experience, you definitely have the compassion, honesty and respect that I mentioned in my post. I think those are essential qualities for anyone working in health, whether conventional or alternative.

Anyway, I've just come on the board and noticed how this thread has grown and I feel I'd better reply, as I may be the person that you thought was "guilty of generalising" and "slamming" naturopathy.

First, I probably shouldn't have mentioned naturopathy at all as it's clear that the person that phoned 'kshsmom' (sorry, I don't know her name) was not a naturopath at all but actually an orthodox (allopathic) nurse, but I recognised that the argument she was using is based on the naturopathic tradition. I'm sorry if I caused confusion there - I should have taken a bit longer to write the post and made myself clearer. However, while the nurse was misusing the whole idea - I think we agree on that - I also feel that the idea itself is open to question.

Secondly, I don't think I was actually slamming naturopathy at all - if you look at what I wrote, I was criticising the attitude of NHPs who are arrogant and dogmatic, but also saying that there are NHPs who are not like that. I could have added that exactly the same is true for conventional doctors - I've encountered a few of them too! - but I think that many people who won't accept poor treatment from a conventional doctor are still willing to take it from alternative therapists, because of the mystique surrounding such treatments. The concept of the healing crisis can easily be used as part of that mystique, as a way of silencing a patient's valid questions about their experience.

Thirdly, I am sceptical about the idea of the healing crisis. As I understand it (you must know much more about it than I do) the theory is that a patient becomes ill because their body is overloaded with toxins and unable to function naturally. Detoxing gives them a chance to reduce the overload by encouraging the three organs of excretion (liver, bowels and skin) to work more effectively, but this also causes the temporary symptoms known as the healing crisis. I think - I'm not sure about this - the model for this theory is when someone has an infection, runs a fever, has a headache, etc, all of which is proof that the body's immune system is fighting the infection. Naturopaths argue that all disease can be dealt with in the same way, by provoking a healing crisis and arousing the body's natural defence mechanisms. (I'm sure I haven't put this right - it's quite a while since I read up on it.)

Well, I have two problems with that. The first is that while it is quite easy to provoke the symptoms usually labelled 'healing crisis', I'm not convinced this actually has anything to do with healing. Just over three years ago I did a detox, hoping to improve my IBS symptoms. What happened was that I stopped having migraines. I have had only one bad and one mild one since then, previously I had had been having three or four a month for about ten years. A great result and proof that detoxing can be very effective. I have since learned (from a conventional doctor) that I have a condition that affects the functioning of the liver. It makes perfect sense to me that my liver had become overloaded and the detox gave it a chance to clear the backlog - I must have been excreting toxins like crazy! - but there was no sign whatever of a healing crisis - I felt pretty good throughout the detox and afterwards. While, at other times, I've had all the classic signs of a healing crisis without getting any better as a result. So I do question the connection between the 'crisis' and 'healing'.

Of course, my IBS symptoms remained exactly the same. And that's my second problem - I don't think these types of treatment can help with IBS anyway - I just don't see any connection between toxic overload and an abnormal gastrocolic reaction. Most of us on the board have other health issues apart from IBS, some of them might well be helped by naturopathic treatments, but I think we should be careful about things that will do little for our IBS or even make it worse. And I think some people might easily mistake worsened symptoms for the 'healing crisis' they've been told to expect, which is what the nurse was telling kshsmom ...

Well, this is where we came in ... I am sorry that my short and hastily written post caused so much trouble and I hope that this long and very slowly written one will help to put it right!

If you are not too exhausted from reading this, I would dearly love to know what you think - in case you haven't guessed, these issues really interest me.

I think you have been very fortunate to have had your IBS improved by naturopathic treatment. The recommendations I received (I haven't tried them all) ran counter to Heather's guidelines. They included fasting, taking courses of vegetable juice, eating 75% raw food, liver flushing, bowel cleansing, colonic irrigation and taking large quantities of supplements (which passed right through me). I would be interested to know what naturopathic treatments you have found helpful, although I realise that doesn't necessarily mean they would help me too.

Best wishes,

Josephine



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Re: kshsmom new
      #158466 - 03/08/05 05:44 PM
dozyveeny

Reged: 09/26/04
Posts: 273
Loc: UK

I'm sorry that my post earlier has stirred things up so much - I don't think anyone was annoyed by what you wrote, it was my post that upset them. I actually meant to be supportive of your decision, not to take things off-track or cause trouble!

I think it was right that you told us about your experience - people may do searches for Reliv in the future and they ought to know know how badly you were treated ...

Hope you are feeling better now and not stressed out by the way this thread went.

Best wishes,

Josephine

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Nonsense! new
      #158548 - 03/09/05 01:20 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

Grr. What a BULLY! Poor you...no-one should be allowed to harass ANYONE like that, but especially not sick people.

Glad you decided to stop it! There is NO wonder cure for IBS - the nearest I've found is a SFS and this diet. Anyone who takes one thing and their IBS goes away obviously doesn't have very severe IBS at ALL!

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Eeek! Don't worry. new
      #158549 - 03/09/05 01:22 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

I totally understand that it's easy to become a bit bitter about the health food industry - people like this so-called nurse don't exactly help! There are some GREAT alternative health practitioners out there...but even the best ones don't have ALL the answers. I really wish there was more legislation to get rid of the worst of the quacks. Preying on ill people is just SICK!

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Just a note here... new
      #158550 - 03/09/05 01:25 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

...in case people find this in a search (hope you don't mind Dalia)...Acaia is great for a lot of people, but like with everything to do with IBS, some people (like Dalia) just can't tolerate it. It happens. Doesn't mean it's a bad product or anything, just something to keep in mind if you give it a good try and it makes you worse.

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I think Dalia... new
      #158551 - 03/09/05 01:27 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

...did use this diet to help her stabilise...it was just Acacia that she had a bad reaction to. I know Ruchie follows naturopathic guidelines, but tries to do so IBS-safely.

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