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Some have you have asked so..holiday report
      #261359 - 05/03/06 02:33 PM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

We were pleasantly surprised by Warsaw, we expected it to be all concrete and communist looking but it was beautiful. Our hotel was very central, beside the Palace of Culture and Science. We were shattered when we arrived, thanks to Munster's win on Sunday (our rugby team got to the final of the European Cup so we had to celebrate) and our 5.15am taxi, we still managed to haul ourselves around some of the sites though, the old town, the Royal Castle etc. We ate a leisurely late lunch sitting in the Old Town Square- photo here

Tuesday we went to the Russian Market (a market set up in a disused football stadium) and the Palace of Culture and Science and then got a train to Krakow.

Krakow is lovely, a really old city and we are stayed in the heart of the old town just off the Market Square. The place is full of culture and history, beautiful churches and architecture, a magnificent castle (Wawel Castle, which also has a , just beautiful cathedral- photo here

We took a tour one of the days to Auschwitz concentration camp. It was harrowing but very worthwhile.

The wedding was Saturday and we did a 6 hour train journey on Saturday to get there. The wedding was so much fun, the bride looked stunning and there were lots of different traditions for Polish weddings that I had never heard of...special songs to drinks shots of neat vodka to and everything. There was so much food and drink it was just crazy, and the locals were very hospitable.

So, all in all, a great trip, highly recommended!



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S.

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wow I really need to do Eastern Europe new
      #261407 - 05/03/06 07:36 PM
AmandaPanda, J.D.

Reged: 04/26/04
Posts: 1490
Loc: New York, New York

... I kinda skipped it. I've done so much of Western Europe and Scandanavia, but skipped over to Turkey and now Asia soon. Eastern Europe is totally on my list, but I'll need more of a luxury vacation for my post-bar exam trip (hence thailand). Sounds like you had a great time. I'd like to hear more about your impressions of Auschwitz. I always get a funny feeling about going to places that held that kind of suffering ... battlefields and the like. I know it's a monumental difference, but I get the same kind of queasy feeling when I see tourists around the world trade center. I just feel like ... naked in a hospital gown? Like why would anyone want to come look at my open wounds. On an intellectual level I know that it (like visiting concentration camps) is about paying respects and gaining understanding and appreciation. But at the same time I feel like ... don't make a spectacle of my suffering, you know? I feel like I'm not really explaining this well. Anyway, I guess that's why I'm interested in how the tour of the camp was conducted, what you felt like, if you took pictures. Please share!

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Amanda

I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin

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The tour new
      #261423 - 05/04/06 02:42 AM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

Panda,

You appear to have done a lot more of Europe than me! Because it's so close to me I am kind of saving a lot of it for when we are older and don't want to travel so far, have kids etc.

That said, I lived in Paris for 8 months (but the only other place that I got to in France was Nantes) and have gone on sun holidays to the South of Spain (only 4 days) and Portugal (we spent a night in Lisbon and crossed the Spanish border to Seville and Cadiz) and a great trip to Crete and Santorini. I've also been in London lots, and Devon once, and also Edinburgh.

I've never been to Scandanavia, but have a friend moving to Norway next week so I will definitely get there at some stage, I was in Italy as a toddler, but am getting there twice this year thanks to my birthday present and a wedding, so this year I really am playing catch up with Europe! Next on my Europe list after this year is Barcelona, I am really keen to get there.

Re: Auschwitz. I hope that this doesn't get too controversial or upset or offend anyone so I will choose my words carefully, but please bear with me, and if you are very sensitive about this topic please stop reading now.

I felt funny about going there. Same as I felt about going to Ground Zero with my Dad, very good analogy. But I am really glad that I did go. I think sometimes we just use the phrase "concentration camp" or "holocaust" without appreciating what actually happened to the million or so people who were sent to these camps, and that each one was a person, with a life, with dreams and hopes, family and friends, not just a number.

I learned facts that never struck me before, despite having studied WW2 in school, I was quite ignorant of a lot of reality, and even things that I should have known. I understand better now that these were everyday people like us who were killed for no reason. It's so easy to de-humanise history and our Auschwitz tour definitely humanised it. We spent about an hour and a half at Auschwitz and then about an hour at Birkenau.

Certainly, at times during the tour it felt wrong, and awkward. Like when school groups took photos of themselves at the Wall of Death where the firing squad used to execute. It felt completely wrong. I took a few photos, one of the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign over the gate, one of the watchtower and layout in Birkenau and a couple of the outsides of buildings. Some of my fellow tourists horrified me by photographing everything, the internal exhibitions, the shoes and clothes that were left behind, the photos of victims, even the inside of the remodelled crematorium. I felt very very strange and uncomfortable in the crematorium where people were initially gassed, before they built the purpose built ones.

Our tourguide was Polish, and was good with facts. She gave us a frank rundown on who got to the camps, who was killed immediately, how they were enticed to go there, who was kept to work there, what living conditions were like etc. It was a very solemn tour and we were constantly reminded that it was like being in a cemetery and to respect the dead and those who had passed through the camp.

Some facts that I either did not know or did not appreciate:
- The people who had to do the cremations (and even harvest hair from the corpses) were other prisoners. They found their friend and families bodies among the dead.
- The Nazis kept everything belonging to the dead. There are display cases full of shoes, spectacles, even false limbs at the museum.
- It wasn't just Jews that were at the camp (but they were the ones that were usually killed instantly, going from the train to the gas chamber) but also political prisoners (like intellectuals and academics) from Poland and surrounding countries, and gypsies.
-many thousands died in the camps of disease and starvation due to the horrific sanitary conditions.

I think I will leave it there for now, if you have any questions do ask. I'm not convinced that I have expressed myself in the way that I intended but it is very hard to put words on it.

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S.

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I must have missed your post in advance of this trip.. new
      #261428 - 05/04/06 04:56 AM
khyricat

Reged: 08/05/04
Posts: 3612
Loc: Michigan

but having been there.. I think we stayed in the same hotel in Warsaw.. we did treblinka, aushwitz, birkenau, majdenek and also went to the city of lodtz- I was on a program called the march of the living for 2 weeks in my senior year of high school- 1 week in poland and 1 week in israel... in memory of the holocaust and the founding of israel...

I think some of the things you mentioned about aushwitz rang huge bells.. though I thought the people picnicking inside the camps was worse.. treblinka I could kinda of understand- its a memorial, but the original camp is gone.. but at majdenek there is still a HUGE mound of ashes and you can smell them when the wind blows (its covered, but open air on the sides as a form of memorial)... and of course since I travelled with a few survivors, including one couple who lived through and MET at Auschwitz, my impressions where a bit different hearing their stories.. and of course the program was named because we traced the death march from aushwitz to birkenau 3000+ strong in memory of those who died there..


The memories of that trip will stick in my mind forever, though there were some wonderful things in warsaw- like the market, and the palace... I have a postcard perfect picture of that on one of my slides... need to get those digitized at some point..

I wrote a diary while there and used information from it to do a slide presentation when I came back that I have given many times over the years...

Amie


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Dairy Allergic
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Re: I must have missed your post in advance of this trip.. new
      #261441 - 05/04/06 06:29 AM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

We stayed at the Holiday Inn in Warsaw, right behind the train station and across from the Palace.

Your trip sounds amazing. I cannot imagine what it was like being in Auchwitz with survivors, harrowing I expect.

The death march was on a few days before we arrived, it was all over the news when we got there, thousands of people going from one to the other.

Its sounds like you took a lot amount from it, I only had a short visit but it still had a huge impact on me.

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S.

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Wow! new
      #261458 - 05/04/06 07:14 AM
epa_ginger

Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1158
Loc: Chicago, IL

Sounds like you had a great time. I've always wanted to see Poland, since I am 50% polish and would love to see where my grandparents came from. Actually I just love Europe in general and hope to get back there soon. Yeah right--with a baby coming in September (who I think just kicked me as a reminder), it will be a long time.
So when is your next trip?

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Sinead new
      #261460 - 05/04/06 07:25 AM
AmandaPanda, J.D.

Reged: 04/26/04
Posts: 1490
Loc: New York, New York

Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I think you and I are totally on the same page as far as that feeling of not wanting to gawk at someone's pain. I think I'd like to see the camp (among a lot of other things) at some point. I've been to the halocaust museum in DC and was very moved by it. There is definitely a value to memorializing all of this ... I'm reading a book right now on a different topic (mostly about early christian civilizations) and you wouldn't believe how Armenian artifacts, churches, and cemetaries continue to disappear almost overnight in Turkey, leaving the Armenians to rely on their own oral histories to convince each other that they were ever really there at all. I swear sometimes I just want to get abandonded on a desert island with a thousand books and be left alone for a year!

Anyway, thank you really for taking the time to share all that.

Panda

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Amanda

I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin

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Re: Sinead new
      #261462 - 05/04/06 07:36 AM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

Not at all Panda, I agree that we have a common view of it.

Yes, reading, mmm reading, I love to devour books. I am a bit ignorant when it comes to a Armenians, to tell you the truth the most knowledge I have about Armenia of the culture what I learned in asides from the novel "We need to talk about Kevin" (BRILLIANT book by the way) For shame..

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S.

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Re: Wow! new
      #261464 - 05/04/06 07:39 AM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

It's such a beautiful country Ginger, you'd love the trip, and given your love of Europe you would adore Krakow.

The next trip is 19th May! I feel very spoiled this year , but it's my birthday present from my lovely husband. A long weekend in Venice, can't wait.

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S.

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NICE!!! new
      #261475 - 05/04/06 07:57 AM
Sara-Sage

Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 5508


Where is that Sinead? It's so beautiful!!!!

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