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long post about family issues...
      #232878 - 12/20/05 01:37 PM
mindyj

Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia

Will (hubby) and I are planning on spending time with both our families over Christmas. However, like some of the rest of you who are getting ready to see your families, this may not necessarily be something to look forward to. Don't get me wrong – I love Christmas and there are certain people in my family that I enjoy spending time with, however there is one key relationship that is particularly twisted in my family that tends to cause problems for me and is making me particularly dread the days next week that I will spend with my family in Pennsylvania.
I don't know how much I've posted here before about my mom, but I don't think I've gone into a lot of detail. Will and I have been talking about this more recently since I've been getting ready to go up there. My mom is needy to the point of being neurotic and to the point of harmfulness to herself and her children. I'm not exaggerating. She has a need for affirmation of the fact that she is devoted to her family and her children and that she is holding us all together and if it weren't for her devotion to us then all of us would be consumed by overwhelming problems. She has to feel like she is the one who saves us (meaning me and my sister mostly) from those problems and everyone must know that without her we never would have overcome said problems.
So where does this put me in dynamics with her? Well, I've come to realize that my mom is a more fulfilled person when I am struggling with some sort of mental, physical or emotional problem where she can view herself as "saving" me and therefore showing everyone how devoted she is to her family. It's nice when you have parents who care for you and some people may think I shouldn't be whining about it, but I feel like this manifestation is not the way it's supposed to work. On the emotional side of things, before I started dating my husband, my mom encouraged me to stay in crappy relationships because the problems they caused in my life were problems that she could then "save" me from by being the constant supporter and the one to pray for me. Will is the perfect husband. I truly can't imagine anyone better for me and I am 100% a better person with him in my life. My mother was visably disappointed when we got engaged and hated him for the first three years we were married.
Now comes the physical manifestations and sometimes this is even more twisted. My mother waits for me to be sick so that she can take care of me. There have been times in my life she has kept me sick. When I was four years old I broke both arms. My mom would only let the doctors set one of them and insisted the break in the right arm was not bad enough to require casting and it would heal on its own. I have permanent damage to the bones in my wrist from that incident. When I was in 3rd grade I got two strains of the flu at once. My mother refused to take me to the hospital. Finally, my father, with my mom yelling at him to put me back on the sofa, scooped me up and drove me to the hospital himself – when my temperature had reached 106! It spiked at 107.1 before the doctors got it to drop. I could have died. I have permanent problems with depth perception because of minor brain damage that happened that night from the fever. When I was 19, I got a UTI while I was at the beach and went to a clinic on my own and got a prescription for bactrum. One day later the clinic called and said my infection was resistant and I needed a different antibiotic. My mother would not let me go to the pharmacy to get it. She literally took away my car keys and insisted that I would be fine if only I drank enough cranberry juice. The infection went to my kidneys and five days later, again I had a fever over 104 and ended up spending 3 days in the hospital on an IV. I could go on with this. I was up with Will last night and counted at least 16 experiences in the past 25 or so years of my life that I remember in which my mother has caused or aggravated a physical condition in order to make me more reliant upon her.
I'm seeing the pattern more clearly now that I really do have a chronic illness and honestly, and sadly, my mother thrives on it! She has tried several times to convince me to stop taking my medicine. Will has noticed that every time I spend time with her she consistently redirects the topic of conversation back to how sick I am so that she can again talk about ways that she wants to take of me or make things better some how. She has put echicnacea in tea that I drink, knowing full well that it subverts the purposes of the immunosuppressant drugs that my doctor has prescribed and that I am not supposed to take any substance that could boost my immune system. She discourages me from seeing my doctors when I am sick, insisting instead that she wants to come to visit me and take care of me – I let her do it once and I count that in my 16 times of mom aggravating an illness since it landed me much worse off than when she arrived.
With me and Will talking about this pattern and with me getting ready to go visit my family, I'm dreading the whole experience. I know this post has gotten painfully long, but I guess I'm just wanted advice on how I should deal with this. Since I've identified this pattern more in the last few years I've been trying not to tell my mom much about my health issues and just pretend like things are fine, even when they're not, in order to avoid feeding into her issues. But that's not easy – she's done her best for as long as I can remember to push me to no end to talk about how sick I am or how I have whatever problem that's ruining my life. So I guess I'm looking for advice, both on how to react and how to cope. To anyone who can offer it, thanks for your advice and thanks for wading through this overly long note!
wondering and worrying like always...
Min

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Hoo, boy.... new
      #232892 - 12/20/05 02:07 PM
epa_ginger

Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1158
Loc: Chicago, IL

that is a problem. While reading the beginning of your message, I planned to ask if maybe she wasn't purposefully "keeping" you sick, but just had a general distrust of medicine and doctors---my inlaws RARELY see doctors and only take aspirin. If they get prescribed something, they NEVER take it. They don't trust medicine at all.

But in reading on, I see that's not really the problem. Are you the only one who has these issues with your mother? Possibly because you're the only one with a chronic illness? If you aren't the only one, it seems like no one would look forward to being around her. If you ARE---does everyone else see it? or do they think you overreact?

I guess I'm just wondering what the rest of your family (besides your husband) thinks about this. Can you talk to any of them about it?

It's really hard to change people sometimes, so if you have already tried to talk to her about it, and ask her not to be so involved in your medical history and that doesn't work---the only thing I can think of is avoidance. That doesn't really solve anything, but it removes the stress from your life.

Is there anyway you and the rest of your family can sit your mom down and talk to her about this? Or if that would be too confrontational, then just sit down and have a one on one?

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Oy.... new
      #232914 - 12/20/05 02:58 PM
Bevvy

Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 5918
Loc: Northwest Washington State

Hi Min,

I had a horrible mother who did not want me and laughed at me when I did something stupid. She was not a nice person and made my beloved father's life a living hell. I became estranged from her right after my father died. That was in 1972.

In 1980, I made an attempt to reconcile with my mother, but it was a disaster. I realized she hadn't changed and would not change, not ever. For my own sanity, I had to cut it off with her permanently. I haven't seen or heard from her since.

I didn't confront my mother about issues that bothered me. It would not have done any good anyway. Once in 1970, she laughed at me over an incident that occurred when I was 6. I could feel the heat rising in my body, until I just couldn't stand it any longer, and I blurted out, "Well, you should be very proud of yourself, laughing at a little six year-old child!" I was surprised at myself, wondering where those words were coming from, but even more surprised at my mother, who just stood there with a big question mark over her head. She didn't have a clue.

Some people just will not change, CANNOT change. I don't know if your mother is one of them, but if so, I would avoid the issues that cause you to be upset, because it is YOU who suffers as a result, not her. I would not mention that you are sick; I would make "nice nice" with her until it is time to leave.

Then I'd turn to my friend, Jack Daniels, and try to forget the entire experience.

Bevvy

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<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~letsrow/smily3481.gif">Bevvy


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Re: Oy.... new
      #232919 - 12/20/05 03:10 PM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

Hi Mindy

That is really scary reading your post, I think we all dread going home a little bit sometimes but your case takes the biscuit. Have you ever had any professional advice on how to deal with your Mum? I would have no idea where to begin. Isn't that a version of Munchausen's syndrome where a parent uses their sick child to get attention?
Your Mom sounds really unwell to be putting both you and her through this. I hope you and Will are going to be OK with the Christmas visits etc.

take care,


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S.

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Re: Oy.... new
      #232920 - 12/20/05 03:10 PM
mindyj

Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia

Hi Bev,
I'm sorry to hear how crappy things are with your mom. I know you have a great hubby - like I do - arn't they the best - so I'm sure he helps alot! One thing that I have in common with your predicament is that I don't think it would do any good to confront her. She would first of all deny to hell and back again that she would ever do anything that was meant to hurt me. The strange thing is - she's right - I believe she didn't MEAN to hurt me - but she did and does. This gets to where our situations are not the same, because I do believe my mom loves me deeply even though she reacts in these ways. I don't know how it all works in her head and frankly I may not want to! I don't know if it can ever change, and yes, it is probably best not to mention anything about being sick, we'll see though.

Thanks for your thoughts - I may take the advice with our friend Jack as well !

Min

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Re: Hoo, boy.... new
      #232922 - 12/20/05 03:16 PM
mindyj

Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia

Hi Ginger,
My Dad has noticed it a few times but he doesn't deal well with my mom either - he used to get angry and yell at her and really be mean, but that didn't help. Now, he's kind of resigned himself that my mom has issues. The saving thing gets directed at him sometimes, but more at me and my sister. My sister has noticed it and we've talked about it a few times, but agree that mom would NEVER react well if we talked with her about it - she'd be heartbroken, deny everything and guilt us to kingdom come. My brother-in-law has noticed and he thinks my mom's plane nuts. I don't think I could ever talk with her directly about it though - she is clueless that she does this. In her mind, she is devoted, she is "saving" her children and her family again and again. I know that sounds strange, but that's the pattern I see. Maybe it would help to talk more with my sister about it. Should keep it in mind now that she has a little one too, who is often in my mother's care...
Thanks Ginger.
Min

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Re: Hoo, boy.... new
      #232924 - 12/20/05 03:35 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

Min,

I'm so sorry! *hugs*

I would look up the Myers-Briggs personality classification system and try to check out a book at the library based on this (you can also look up Enneagram). Your mother sounds like a very unhealthy Two. This might help you to understand her better and it might give you ideas on how to respond to her.

In case you don't have time to get to the library be/ now and then e-mail me if you like and I can try summarize some stuff for ya.

I want you to know you are not alone. I want you to know the way your mom behaves is wrong. I agree with Bev...confrontation will likely not be helpful. (I know it isn't in my fam!)

The only thing you can do, imo (and from what my therapist has told me when dealing with my fam) is that we have to be firm and set limits. SOOO hard!

Ginger gave you a great idea...talking more to your sister about it. That sounds excellent!

*hugs* *hugs* *hugs*

I'm sorry you have to deal with this...esp. on the holidays!! keep us posted...and my e-box is always open *more hugs*

Love,

Ruch

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Re: Oy.... new
      #232984 - 12/20/05 09:00 PM
mindyj

Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia

Hi Sinead.
The last time I was seeing a therapist regularly (about four years ago) I was dealing more with issues of my own that stem to certain teenage experiences and such. We did talk some about my family and I remember the therapist saying that I needed to let my mom know when things she said/did hurt me since it didn't seem that she realized it on her own. Well, every time I try to say something about to my mom about anything that she could have possibly done that wasn't completely conducive to her devotion to her family, I receive the guilt trip of a lifetime, so I decided that advice wasn't very productive. Now that I have more insight into the whole problem, it certainly might be a good idea to talk to a therapist about all of it. I've thought about talking to my sister-in-law who's a psychologist, but I don't know if bringing her into the situation would be such a good idea...
On the munchausen's thing, I did look into that a couple weeks ago, and while my mom has some of the characteristics at times, she doesn't fit the whole profile for the disorder. Munchausen Byproxy patients seek attention from the doctors. My mother tends to keep me away from doctors since she wants to be the one that everyone sees as doing everything for her sick daughter. It's also not just a physical thing. Since I have crohns and I really am sick, that "trouble" or "problem" is always present. At other times in my life there have been other problems she's latched onto that arn't physical in nature, but she still is fulfilled by the fact that I have them and then she can try to save me from them. This includes the crappy relationships I've been in at times or problems of overcommittment with work/school. For a long time she was really fixated with my sister's marital problems and I know she made my sister's divorce a much more painful process than it should have been.
But anyways, Will has helped tons at keeping me sane through all of it, so I'm sure he'll also be a stablizing presence during Christmas.
By the way - I remember you posting about issues with your dad awhile back. Things got better for awhile didn't they? Is it still working out for you and all your siblings and your mom? Hope all is well with your family over Christmas too, Sinead!
Min

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Re: Hoo, boy.... new
      #232985 - 12/20/05 09:05 PM
mindyj

Reged: 05/14/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Northern Virginia

Hi Ruchie,
Thanks for your encouragement. I've looked before at my formulation for myers brigs - I don't remember what it came out to though. Will and I both took the test before we got married. We also did one that was supposed to place people in how they relate to eachother. Will and I came out as "companions" and I thought that was wonderful! I've never thought about where my mom would fit with either one of these tests, but it may be a good tool to help understand it all. I'll try to look into it.
Thanks for the idea. I know Hannakah (sp?) is not as big a holiday for Jews as Christmas is for Christians, but I hope you have a lovely holiday coming up here as well!
Min

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geeze... new
      #232986 - 12/20/05 09:30 PM
Lyndsey

Reged: 02/16/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Bay Area, CA

i'll tell you my mom is a "maryter" as well, but she is in the constant poor me frame, but she loves when mike and i have our proboems, so she can swoop me up and fix it, my mom has been there, but she's put me so much in harm's way as well, it makes me sick.

reading your email, made me almost cry (i'm also emotional becuase i am pregnant...) but i can see how that would be angering. it's a sick pleasure people get in saving someone, and controling it. i've been battling my own demons as well, and i need to post something after christmas, just becuase i don't want to re-kindle any pain anyone else has endured in their lives...it'll make more sense later...

i'm actually not planing anything with my mom this year, mainly for all the stuff she tries to stir up...she's actually triggered alot of stuff between mike and i...which is pretty messed up. and she does try to brainwash me alot...which i have learned she does now...i didn't realize it in the past (mike and my relationship isn't perfect, but we are doing better, and going back to the us we were..we hit a bump, but i've seen she stirred alot of crap up)

anyway...i personally if she brought anything up about how sick i would have gotten, would say "well if you'd taken me to the hospital, i wouldn't have gotten so bad, i have serious problems now becuase of it" or something on that nature, of course i can be less tackful than some, but i feel i'd have to be upfront, i've been with my mom, becuase she put me in harms way, and i've told her i'm mad at her becuase of it. we aren't perfect, i know that...but parent's jobs are to protect their children. i said in an earlier post she allowed her petifile dad live with us (which is my issue for later...becuase it's pretty deep, and mike's been helping me alot with it)

anyway, i honestly think it's not fair that you have to go through something like this, when it's the holidays, it's about being happy...but thats my thought, but if she does bring it up, i'd pull her aside and tell her you want to tlak to her about it after the holidays, say it embarasses you or something, so she wont do it...
t

thanks my two cents, i hope it helps...

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