Dog Owners need advice..
#200641 - 07/28/05 05:44 PM
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Tissy
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 773
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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I have a 14 lb. yorkie which is a male and a 85lb. (and growing) American Bull dog which is a female. I had the yorkie first and then when he was 6 months old we got the bull dog. So as funny as it is the yorkie is the Alpha dog. The Yorkie is 2 and half years old and the bull dog is 2 years old. They have never once had even a tussle.
Well last night I was running around trying to get ready to run out to dinner with my MIL. So I asked my 5 year old to feed the dogs, which she did. One gets fed in the kitchen and one in the dining room. My 5 year stood in the kitchen watching my Yorkie eating. And she said the bull dog came out and stepped on him and basically pushed him out of the way of his food bowl and then tried to sit on him. And he wriggled out from underneath her and tried to get back to his bowl so she turned around and tried to bite him.
This is when all HELL broke loose and my daughter started screaming over the snarling and growling that they were biting each other. I run down stairs try to pull the bull dog (husband's dog) off my Yorkie (he is my baby). I pull her back and scream for my 7 year old daughter to pick the yorkie up and throw him outside. My daughter panics and starts ASKING him if he wants to go out. I'm screaming "Pick Him Up, PIck Him Up" as I am straddling the bulldog holding her by the collar and she is dragging me back over to the yorkie. The Yorkie comes charging back in for more and the bulldog slips out of her collar and they are at it again.
I am screaming and smacking the bulldog with her collar I am holding in my hand and she coud have cared less. Finally I grab her by her back legs and drop my full body weight backwards and to the floor to get her off. And my daughter grabs the Yorkie and puts him outside. And the little nut is bouncing off the back door trying to come back for more.
And did I mention I was also holding a phone to my ear on hold with my kids pediatrician b/c I am on a waiting list to get an appt. for school checkups and they had called me with an opening. If that receptionist had picked up while I was screaming at the top of my lungs she have thought I was being murdered and called the police.
Neither dog had a mark on them amazingly. and of course hubby wasn't home at the time and missed the whole thing.
Sorry so long....My advice needed is
1. Will they continue to fight now that they have done it once?
2. Will they eventually draw blood?
3. Should I have let them work it out on their own if there was no bloodshed? (Someone told me that is what you are supposed to do)
4. Is there any thing I can do to prevent these fights?
5. How do you effectively and safely break up a dog fight?
My Yorkie was here first but I also love the bull dog and don't want to have to find her a new home. However she could kill him if she wanted to.
Christie
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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~
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I too have heard that dogs need to 'work it out' on their own. I have also heard, though, that they shouldn't have to do it inside somewhere. Like, the best thing to do would be to have them together out in the open to get used to each other and establish power roles and stuff.
If they have already done all that, though, I am stumped. It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing by feeding them in seperate rooms 'cause even best buddy dog friends will fight over food.
Has the bigger dog done any obedience training?
Sorry I couldn't be more help, good luck!!
--Steph
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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Stephie
#200650 - 07/28/05 06:09 PM
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Tissy
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 773
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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First I wanna say my thoughts are with you. I really hope things get better for you soon.
It is funny you mention the training. My little dog has been through training but the big dog has not. My hubby needs to take her b/c she is so strong!!! I tried to take her when she was a pup but the trainer told me her breed needed a year to just be a puppy. By the time she was a year old she was already 60-7- lbs. so I couldn't do it and hubby was busy with his job. I have been wondering if training will help.
Christie
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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~
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Re: Stephie
#200662 - 07/28/05 06:41 PM
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Stephie
Reged: 03/10/04
Posts: 2696
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Hi there,
We are in a similar situation with our new dog - except that it is my LITTLE dog who bullies my bigger lab! When we first got him, she would give a little pathetic growl and he would actually CRY! Can you imagine??
Anyway, he doesn't really have any training but he is so so well behaved so it is easy to forget, until I find him asleep in the living room where he isn't allowed, whoops!!
Good luck with your doggies!
--Steph
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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Ah, food aggression. We deal with that too. First off, don't let them just work it out. Above all, you and your husband are the alphas of the pack, and they need to know that. Definitely take the younger dog for training, it's really important. Ok,
1. Will they continue to fight now that they have done it once?
Yes. Unless you break the bulldog of the food aggression issues, they will fight every meal time.
2. Will they eventually draw blood?
Depends. Dogs are good on knowing each other's limits. It depends on what kind of relationship they have. Or it could happen by accident. Our dogs have hurt each other playing. For whatever reason our German Shephard mix rarely lets us know he's in pain or been hurt, so we didn't even know the other dog had rubbed raw his collar area for awhile.
3. Should I have let them work it out on their own if there was no bloodshed? (Someone told me that is what you are supposed to do)
Nope. You need to intervene and show them who's boss. There's a couple of ways you could go about this. The most important thing is to break the dogs of food aggression in general. What if your dog decided it wanted your child's food, or got angry with your child for being too close to it's food. This sort of thing can't be tolerated for everyone's safety. Pack order they can sort out on their own, but this kind of aggression needs nipping in the bud.
4. Is there any thing I can do to prevent these fights?
Here's a good article on food aggression between dogs and people. And here's an article on aggression towards other dogs (it's about Dauschand's, but the advice applies to all dogs).
5. How do you effectively and safely break up a dog fight?
This is a hard one. It's a bad idea to put your body in between them. They are likely to accidentally bite you. You can try spraying them with water, or using an unpleasant sound to deter them (pennies in a metal coffee can, a sonic device from a pet store). A really good way is to mix vinegar and water in a spray bottle and squirt them in the mouth when they're doing this kind of thing. The nasty taste will distract them.
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I belong to a forum here in the UK which is very good it run by a "Dog Listener"
www.doglistener.co.uk I'm Helen on the board so say hello!!
Stan is very good
Helen
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As a last resort, a bucket of water is the classic treatment! But the water or water/vinegar spray is great.
Remember as well to always tell the dog that started it off first and more. Otherwise they'll get well confused.
If you can find a GOOD dog training class, the fact that the dog's so big wouldn't be a problem. Our instructors are great at taking the bigger/stronger dogs when they get out of hand and they can make any dog behave!  Also, using a check collar can help. You NEED to do classes and stuff IMHO, especially with strong dogs. What the vet said is total nonsense IMHO...puppies are allowed to be puuppies whilst getting training! And it's so important to socialise them properly.
Btw, little dogs being top dog is actually the norm in my experience!  They usually have the attitude to be the boss despite their size.
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...not a good idea if the birthday girl is a yorkie. Your story just made me laugh, not that it isn't a serious situation, but having a yorkie of my own I couldn't help but laugh at your description of your yorkie trying to keep coming back for more against an 85 lb dog. They really do not know their size!
We had a little birthday party for ours a few weeks ago when she turned one, and she was such a jerk! We only had 3 dogs over and had them come in shifts so we didn't overwhelm her, and as soon as they came in she's backing a huge 60lb irish terrier into a corner and then 2 shnauzers and she's only 5lbs! As long as she didn't hurt them I had to say it was pretty funny.
I've noticed she doesn't like little kids either. I brought the little boy I nanny for by my house one day (he's 3 and couldn't stop talking about wanting to see my house and my puppy) so as soon as we walk in the door little Bianca comes running and barking. She calmed down but everytime he moved his hand to gently pet her she'd turn and try and snap at him. Needless to say I don't think she's much into kids. What neurotic dogs they are!
Well I don't know what to tell you about your situation. They hadn't had problems coexisting before did they? Maybe it was just a bad day. Any scuffles since then??
Good luck!!
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My husky and his best friend, a boxer (both 55 pounds), got into it once, all snarling and wrestling. It was horrendous to hear. I kicked them apart, but they went back at it 20 minutes later. BF said to let them have it out, and he was right. They'd known each other for months and never fought like this. It's normal-- once one achieves dominance, they don't do it again.
Now are you following the rules of having an alpha dog? He has to eat AFTER you eat, not before. And your alpha dog has to be fed wherever he eats FIRST, and then your other dog gets fed after him. If the omega dog gets fed first or before you, it'll get him confused on the pecking order in the family, and can lead to him instigating fights.
Good luck with this. I know fighting pets can be really stressful. You might just want to seperate them for a while and put the omega dog away from the family. 
~nelly~ 
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My dog Chloe is part Yorkie and park Bichon and a 12 pound diva. All about the attitude. She acts like a demure thing here in the house, but she goes out side and she is becomes a stubborn little pain. We have a Rottweiler/Pit Bull/Lab mix next door who is the nicest guy you'll meet. He just has the ugly face and is all muscle, but I walk to the fence and he is just tail wagging head down and submissive. Totally threw me.
He learned to jump the fence to come play with Chloe. Over a year ago he was just being playful and jumping around with her when she snapped and started growling and biting him. Chewed on his ear, tore part of his lip, scratched his middle and got a bite on his leg. So I am terrified about him hurting her, and she is the agressor. He becomes this pile of whimpering dog. I am apologizing to the neighbors who are just shocked that 1-he can get over the fence, 2-she kicked his butt and 3- there isn't a mark on her and she still wants to fight.
I scolded her for being bad and hurting him and then put her in her crate. She then had to watch me go over and treat him well. Fortunately the neighbors were great and the was no serious damage to him, but he is a bit nervous around her.
We did the water and vinegar and that really seems to help with teaching her NO MORE. It also helped that we both became the Alphas although she responds better to my fiance when he scolds her and doesn't try to ignore him like she does to me part of the time.
-Michelle
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I agree! I was wondering if he started it but my five year old swears the bull dog started it. I find it hard to believe b/c she is the sweetest thing and has never been aggressive w/ other dogs. However my Yorkie is constantly going after dogs bigger then him.
Christie
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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~
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I did not know about these. My Yorkie 9 out of 10 times gets fed first just b/c his bowl is in the kitchen but now I will make sure he gets fed first everytime. And we usually feed the dogs as soon as we get home from work before we fix our dinner. Should I wait until after we fix and eat dinner?
Christie
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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~
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This is typical of my yorkie he is constantly picking a fight with a bigger dog like a german shepard that is in our neighborhood. He is very good with kids though. But he hasn't known anything else. My kids were 3 and 5 when we got him, and they weren't real gentle with him.
Christie
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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~
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Yep
#201292 - 08/01/05 12:50 AM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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You eat first, then the top dog, then the lesser dog. And the top dog should get treats first etc too.
If you're sitting down with the dogs, try hanging your head over the dog's shoulders - this is a classic dog dominance tactic and if they recognise you as top dog they should let you. I had to emphasise this with Archie when he was going through a stroppy teenager phase.
Making them let you take away their toys or food when they want them is also a dominance thing. You are in charge and control them and you need to make sure they realise this.
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That's really pushed down our throats by the Kennel Club etc over here. Archie started going to puppy classes at about 14 weeks...at first it was mainly play just to get them socialised and then we worked on being polite and obeying commands whilst around other dogs. We've also made a conscious effort to introduce Archie to lots of kids...he's still a bit nervous of new kids but that's just b/c they're so loud and scare him! He's a right wimp. 
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I don't think that was ever made a big deal to us. My dog socializes with others from time to time, and she really is a nice and very tolerant puppy, but I think it's mostly just funny to realize how yorkies think they are so big and they are so definitely not. They definitely live up to the traits of their breed.
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