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I am still shocked that London has been targeted again and realyl hope this ends soon but I don't see how that will happen.
 
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I agree with everything you said Panda. I worked only a few blocks away from the WTC site on 9/11. WHen I brought Tina to Ground Zero and started explaining things to her, I began to cry. I am still deeply affected by it. I however, refuse to be afraid. There is no "safe" place anymore but we can fight back. We have to realize we our soldiers too and be more vigilant and not bury our heads in the sand. This is a World War, NY, Bali, Madrid, London, Kenya...
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...and the only objection I have to compulsory id cards in this country is that it sounds like we're gonna have to pay through the nose for them and Si and I are always broke.
I don't agree with the imprisonments without a trial...but I think they could be avoided if everyone gave up a small part of their civil liberties and we had loads of searches etc. I don't mind that AT ALL.
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...what with the Blitz and the IRA (it's like the city and country has a memory beyond that of it's citizens). We get very stoic. They are NOT going to terrorise us.
Quote:
"We will prevail...they will not." Tony Blair
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Linz -- I am so glad you are alright. I can't believe this is happening. Adrian used to get off really often at Oval station when he would go to work. How absolutely terrifying.
**huge hugs**
--Steph
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~~I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell-I know right now you can't tell~~Matchbox 20
IBS-D,pain.
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Hang on guys!
#198305 - 07/21/05 03:53 PM
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Linz
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England
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Muslims are getting killed in this country. It's been a while since the radicals were allowed to preach openly. And many of the bombers were 2nd or 3rd generation Brits, not recent immigrants.
I love my country and one of the great things about it is it's multiculturalism and liberalism. I don't want to allow the terrorists to divide this country...and I don't think they will.
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But the Brit bombers seemed to be a bunch of typically angry young men who had just picked this cause to expend their anger and guilt on...and had been worked on. Testosterone has a lot to answer for IMO! It's makes these young men far too susceptible to evil being whispered in their ear.
LOADS of the Muslim leaders in this country have been condemning all this...but there're always more out East or in secret that won't.
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Quote:
I don't agree with the imprisonments without a trial...but I think they could be avoided if everyone gave up a small part of their civil liberties and we had loads of searches etc. I don't mind that AT ALL.
I dunno Linz. Obviously nobody likes the idea of imprisonment without a trial, but avoiding such things might not be a luxury we can afford during wartime. Like me, my brothers are Arab-American, and they look it. As two Middle-Eastern-looking men in their late 20s/ early 30's, they fit the profile. As I've said a thousand times, I'd rather have them locked up without a trial than blown up in a building. It's an awful situation either way, but I'd accept even a substantial violation of civil rights if it means everyone is safer. This is consistent with American jurisprudence on this topic. Years after WWII, a Japanese-American man brought a case against the federal gov based on his confinment to an internment camp in the West (I'm assuming everyone is familiar with that history). The Supreme Court found for the government, saying even imprisonment of American citizens, even those born here, based solely on their ancestral nationality, was acceptable during war time. Such racial discrimination is traditionally subject to "strict scrutiny," which basically means the goverment has to have a compelling reason for the discrimination, and that the discriminatory practice must be substanially linked to the cause it intends to serve.
The cops here in NYC are searching randomly, which means blonde teenage girls are getting searched, even though they are unlikely to have bombs strapped to them. Concern for political correctness is discouraging the police from racial profiling, but, I imagine, such a practice would ultimately be upheld by the Supreme Court. Nobody is insinuating that all Arabs are terrorists ... but heretofore, most of the terrorists have been Arabs. Wouldn't it be more efficient to search the people who are similar to all the previous perpetrators? To my mind, the answer is yes, even if that means my brothers are subject to closer inspection than my blonde friends.
I hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions, which is all this post is. As an Arab-American of mixed Jewish and Christian descent living in NYC, I think I'm in a pretty good position to speak for the people whose civil rights may be limited.
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Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
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...and as they were saying on the beeb this lunchtime, if they only check young Arab males, the terrorists will find a way (threats, brainwashing or duping) to get bombs on blonde women! Gotta think beyond today.
And I object to any insult to our democracy like imprisonment w/out trial. These terrorists want to change my country from the liberal accepting place it is - why the hell should we help them do so!
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Both good points, Linz. I enjoy sparring with you. I agree that only looking at those who fit the profile means that "unusual" perps can slip through the cracks. That's a practical argument against profiling that I can accept. What I can't accept are the PC arguments, because they just don't make sense to me.
As for helping them change your country, I agree there too. There aren't any solid answers. But I think in war time, which this is, we are called on to give up a lot of freedom for the sake of security. That's why the supreme court applies strict scrutiny to this kind of thing, and demands that the government show a darn good reason for suspending a person's freedom without a trial. It's a policy that should not be abused, but it should also not be eliminated, IMO.
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Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
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