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bad daughter???
      #153118 - 02/23/05 08:49 AM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

hey everyone - sorry I haven't been around - parents are visiting from the uk and been really busy. had a bit of a blow up this morning.
its a long story but I'll try to cut it short - my father developed angina (heart disease) two and a bit years ago - stress and very bad lifetsyle (loads of junk food, smoking, high sugar, high sat fat, high red meat and processed foods etc). when he was hospitalised he swore to mend his ways and 'do what it takes' to restore health. he tried in the beginning and lost lots of weight...I went away travelling for nine months and returned to my original overwight father with not that many changes around any more. smoking had stopped and so had butter - but thats really it. I tackled him about it after I had seen 2 months of behaviour - I realised my dad is sensitive so I said very gentle things - I just mentioned taking more exercise - not even teh food!! he flipped out and we didn't speak for days 'how dare a daughter tell me what to do' (my dad is very sweet, but God forbid you try and tell him something is wrong personally with him - very arrogant in that way). so after that argument I swore to myself I would never say anything again - no matter what. that was a year a half ago almost.
my parents are now staying in my apartment in NY - we moved in with my in laws for the duration of their stay. they brought chocolate mints with them. they brought pepsi. I baked healthy cakes (heathers - low sat fat etc). but still, on top of eating the cakes and cookies I made, my dad kept eating the junk and if we went to restaurants, eating the red meat options. he is still overweight. and his portions huge. finally last night he came back with a box of entemmens chocolate chip cookies. I put them on the top shelf hoping he wouldn't find them, but when I came in this morning they were half eaten!!! he asked me what was wrong because I was holding in tears and I just burst into tears and said 'I can't have these cookies in my house - its against my philosophy' (I am a nutritionist student and a naturopath and HATE huge junk food companies - I think they are responsible for a lot of disease in our lives and they only care about profit). I burst into tears. My father went out for a walk and I totally flipped out as he left. I threw out the left over chocolates they had brought...i threw out the cookies and cakes I had baked because I felt sooo rejected too. My dad always likes to eat things made by huge companies instead of stuff cooked with love by his daughter. I threw out the hard yellow heart attack cheese. I was screaming and crying. I really lost it. I just said to my mum that it reaches a point where I think it is just disrespectful. that they come to stay under my roof and why should have to watch in my own house, my own father, eat his way to a shorter life. its not fair. they KNOW I am sensitive about it. can he not go ONE week without eating something utterly junky? would it KILL him??? and another thing that really hurts is that they have watched me struggle from diet to diet, from restriction to restriction, for ten years already - doesn't that make him realise how LUCKY he is that he lived 61 years before even a HINT of bad health??? WISH heart disease had acute symptoms too, instead of just building up so scarily and then boom, angina if you're lucky and heart attack and death if you're not.
my father is a religious Jew and believes in balance in life - but he is SO imbalanced when it comes to eating. I was brought up on junk. I find it hypocritical - I could never say that to him. you simply cannot critisise him. when he came home from his walk today he told my mum 'you are getting chubby aren't you?'...just a tit for tat thing...so immature.
phew...thanks...that feels better...I don't want to argue when we are here but how much can I take????
Am I being unreasonable???
I love you all XXXXXXXXXxx

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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((((((((((((((((((((((((((DALIA))))))))))))))))))))))))))) new
      #153123 - 02/23/05 09:05 AM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

I am SO SORRY!

The Torah does say to lead a balanced life. It also warns us not to put ourself in a Sakana...danger.

However...some of us have certain Teyvahs...desires...that are out of control...

If I were you but I'm not...and this may not work for your personality?) I would sit my dad down and say "I want to speak with you. I am asking you to please listen to what I have to say and not say anything until I have finished. Then you can say your piece and I will also not interrupt. Dad, I love you. I am worried about you and your health. I am scared of losing my father to his Teyvah for sweets. It hurts me every time I watch you use up another day of life from Hashem with your eating. It's a Sakana! And it is aginst the Torah. It also hurts me that you do not seem interested in the food I worked so hard to make you." I would say whatever you need to get out in a respectful way. I might also let him know that it is hard for you to say these things as you have a deep respect for you. But that you feel in order to be a good daughter you need to tell him your concerns.

I hae free long distance Dalia. If you want me to call you I'd be honored. You've helped me change my life...if I can ever do anything for you I'm there in a heartbeat!

I have you in my thoughts and Tefilos (prayers)....

With love,
Ruchie

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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P.S. new
      #153127 - 02/23/05 09:12 AM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

You are NOT a bad daughter...on the contrary. You have so much respect and love for your dad that you don't want to say anything to hurt him or upste him. How many people would examine their every word like this? You are a very special Tzaddekas Dalia...please don't think otherwise! And your father loves you....yet you are the "enemy". You are right and telling him the Emes (truth). Sometimes we can't see the Emes. It is too difficult for us. It is also difficult for a grown man to change his ways. There is not too much we can do to change other people I find. We can only do for ourselves. HOWEVER what we say to a person always sticks with them. Your words may make your father furious for now. But one day they may just seep through and he might change his ways.

I am thinking of you and your dad...I know it will somehow be okay...... *hugs*

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Re: bad daughter??? NO WAY! new
      #153151 - 02/23/05 09:58 AM
Tissy

Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 773
Loc: Baltimore, MD

You are not a bad daughter!! You love your dad and want him to be healthy so that you can have him in your life longer.

I understand your pain and torment. Both my parents smoke heavily and my mom hasn't been to see a doc since she had my brother, and he is 25 years old now! No OB/GYN, No GP, not even a dentist. Doctors scare her, I think she has a phobia.

But all I can see is her dying at a young age, she is only 50, and not seeing her grandchildren grow-up, go to proms, and get married. She also gets VERY defensive if you approach her on the subject of getting her health checked out and living a healthier lifestyle.

It scares me death to even think about what could possibly be wrong with her and we won't know until it is to late, like cancer. I have tried before to talk to her about it but she always gets mad and turns it back on me. And tells me I need to mind my own business that I have enough problems of my own. It gets VERY NASTY with some of the remarks she says.

So I have learned that I can't change her and I can't make her do anything she doesn't want to. So I just try to approach it calmly and lightly, dropping hints and comments that I can only hope she takes to heart. And I constantly remind her that I would be devastated and so would my two kids if she died.

I know it is hard to watch them literally slowly kill themselves, honey. But we as their children can only do so much. I pray for my mom everynight, remind her that I love her frequently, and remind her that it would devastate me to lose her at such a young age when it doesn't have to be that way, and hope for the best.

Just remember you are wonderful daughter who loves her parents so much that you care about what happens to them.

Sending prayers and HUGS you way,
Christie

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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~

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Tissy new
      #153161 - 02/23/05 10:09 AM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

I worry about my mom too. She has IBS, fibro, I think high blood presure....

She does weight watchers 1,2,3 inconsinsently and exercises on occasion. She is a work-a-holic and I know it's not good for her. She says if I moved home she would have an exercise body to go for walks with. And I feel guilty but I can't move to save her. Right now we are where we are for hubby's career.

It's not easy. If only they taught about halth in school more. in this day and age I think it would benefit children more to learn how to take care of themselves than anythig else (hope you don't mind my opinions!)

It hurts to watch the people we love hurt themselves.

I find the more I change myself and work on myself...the greater influence I have on others. If people see me happy with my life they ASK ME what makes me so happy. Especially those that saw me "before IBS/fibro diagnosis...during...and after".

I wonder if anyone else has seen this happen to them?

Anyway...i'm sorry about your mom *hugs* I'm sorry about both our moms! I will pray for your mom as well Christie *hugs*

Take care fo yourself! Love, Ruchie

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Thanks Ruchie and you express your opinions anytime ya like! -nt- new
      #153166 - 02/23/05 10:15 AM
Tissy

Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 773
Loc: Baltimore, MD



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Christie
~Hoping and Praying for Sleep!~

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you are not a bad daughter... new
      #153178 - 02/23/05 10:26 AM
khyricat

Reged: 08/05/04
Posts: 3612
Loc: Michigan

and in this they are being bad parents.. what they choose to do on their own is one thing, but to disrespect you in your own home and eat the stuff that is killing them is WRONG... I am sorry but it owuld drive me nuts too, and I can't blame you. Especially when you are on such a restrictive diet and they are bringing these things that are forbidden to you into your home and then flaunting them in front of you. It's sad, but so many of our parents generation eat like garbage and don't understand their own health issues or those of their children and grandchildren and can't see that the foods are a huge source of this worlds downfall healthwise.

--------------------
Dietetics Student (anticipating RD exam in Aug 2010)
IBS - A
Dairy Allergic
Fructose and MSG intollerant


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Re: You are not a bad daughter!! new
      #153188 - 02/23/05 10:38 AM
michele

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 6886
Loc: southeastern michigan

Its always hard when we seeing people we love doing things that we know is harmful to them. I would have probably done the same thing you did! Hugs!!


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Taking it one day at a time.....

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Story for DT new
      #153202 - 02/23/05 11:00 AM
Bevvy

Reged: 11/04/03
Posts: 5918
Loc: Northwest Washington State

Hi DaliaTree,

You're not a bad daughter, you're a loving, concerned daughter who wants the best for her family.

I don't know why us old folks insist on doing things that aren't good for us, but sometimes we have a bad attitude; it's like, "Oh, S***, I don't have much longer in this life, so I'm gonna have my beloved coffee, and damn the torpedos!" Then, we end up with severe cramps and Big D.

No one can tell us otherwise. We know we're wrong, and we DO care, but we seem to have lost the impetus that we had as youngsters, with our whole lives ahead of us.

Really, all you can do for your loved ones is love them. You can't control their actions. You're a wonderful daughter who cares, but don't let that cause you to do or say anything you may later regret. Here's my story that I hope will help you -- I'll make it as short as I can.

In 1963, my family was still alive. My mother was not a nice person, but my grandmother was wonderful, and I loved her dearly. She had diabetes and did not take care of herself. She ended up in the hospital, and the doctor told my mother that she needed 24/7 care, that she had an embolism on her heart, and when it pooped she would die. It was crucial that she lose weight, and he gave my mother a diet to put my grandmother on.

My grandmother moved in with us; she had the room across the hall from me. I heard her every night crying to God, "Please, Lord, take me." It broke my heart.

My mother put her on the doctor's diet and was very strict with her; my grandmother lost a lot of weight, and I was hopeful it would extend her life. Unfortunately, she was extremely hungry, and one night I caught her "stealing" a slice of bread from the bread box. I lost it, totally lost it. I ranted and raved at her, yelling horrible things, like, "My mother is doing her best to try to keep you alive, and this is how you repay her?! How DARE you!"

Those were the last words I said to my grandmother. She died that week in my mother's arms, while I was at work.

My last words to her haunt me to this day.


Bev

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<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~letsrow/smily3481.gif">Bevvy


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Hugs sweetie new
      #153208 - 02/23/05 11:10 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

You are NOT a bad person in ANY way! I like Ruchie's advice...sit him down and have a talk...all the stuff to do with your faith sounds like it could get through too.

It's tough I know...my Dad smokes even tho he knows we all hate it...he's already nearly died quite a few times and I do NOT want to lose him, but he won't listen.

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Heck no! new
      #153262 - 02/23/05 12:32 PM

Unregistered




You are definitely not a bad daughter! Sorry you've had such a rough time with them visiting.

My only advice would really be to just sit down with him and have a nice gentle (but firm) talk with him and just make sure he knows that you want him to be around to see grandchildren and things like that, and if he won't do it for himself, think of all the people that love him (including you) and do it for them. Maybe if you can make your mom really understand this too she'll keep on him better back at home. It's hard to change people's habits when they have had them for so so long. But it doesn't hurt to try!

And maybe you could get him to realize that he doesn't have to give up things he loves, they could have turkey burgers instead of hamburgers, and healthier cookies and cakes, and things like that.

I'm sorry I don't have better advice for you but I don't think you should give up because you love him and you want what's best for him. Big big big hugs and take care! How have you been feeling by the way?


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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153267 - 02/23/05 12:47 PM
heather7476

Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 2996
Loc: South East Michigan

I had wondered where you where! BIG HUGS HONEY!!!! Your not a bad daughter!! Just remmber if someone dosen't want to change you can't make them!! You love your daddy that's all!! You are a good daughter!!!! And A good FRIEND!!!!

BIG HUGS!!!!

--------------------
Heather7476


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Heather new
      #153277 - 02/23/05 12:59 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

You always say the sweetest things! just want you to know I noticed that about you...*hugs*

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Ruchie!!! new
      #153288 - 02/23/05 01:14 PM
heather7476

Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 2996
Loc: South East Michigan

Thank You honey!!!! I am so glad your back on here i Missed you so much!!!!!

BIG HUGS!!!!!

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Heather7476


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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153291 - 02/23/05 01:15 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you so much heather..you are such a sweetie...I know people have to change themselves but sometimes you just BURST after one too many cheescake observances!! :-) thanks sweetie XXX

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Re: Heck no! new
      #153297 - 02/23/05 01:20 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thanks so much for your sweet words. unfortunately I tried a year and a half ago to speak sweetly and kindly and to try and educate - I was shut down with absolute fury by him - he made me feel as if I had said something EVIL. And he cruelly made fun of me like I was trying to be Oprah and have a heart-to-heart conversation. he prefers to just leave things - finds open talking awkward a lot - then to be open about them - this is one place where me and him differ a lot. I sobbed for ages after that incident and swore I could never do it again, because it took too much courage. sigh.
Thanks for your advice though - it was great if my dad wouldn't be so weird about being critisised in the remotetest most constructive way....

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: Hugs sweetie new
      #153298 - 02/23/05 01:22 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Hey Linz
thanks you very much for your response. why are they all so stubborn....I don't know. Speaking of faith - there is a quote in Judaism in a book called 'Ethics of the Fathers' which states: 'Who is wise? He that learns from everyone'. I wish my father would incorporate that into his daily life aswell as the rest of the religious stuff...Thanks again XXX

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Re: Heck no! new
      #153299 - 02/23/05 01:23 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

Dalia! I am soooo sorry! I can't believe your dad said that.......

He must be really hurting. Maybe even scared...to have said soething like that to you. *sigh*

is there a way you could write him a letter or something? That is less confrontational...

I'll keep thinking for you *hugs*

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Re: Story for DT new
      #153300 - 02/23/05 01:26 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Wow. I am so sad that happened to you. Though I can honestly understand why you reacted that way. Its so hard isn't it. I hope you don't blame yourself about it. It was only natural. One of my husbands friends mother is now dying in hospital. she is in her late fifties and has smoked two packs of cigarettes since the beginning of time. She was diagnosed a few months ago with emphysema but still refused to stop smoking. she caught a simple cold this week and is now unconsious in hospital with days to live...her whole body shut down through lack of immunity to anything. her son is getting married in the summer. I cannot understand it. I know addictions are hard...but...I said to my dad once - 'so having that cookie is a higher priority than soothing your daughters mind about your attempts to gain better health?' and to spite me, he said yes...because I know he MUST love me more then cookies...but our actions DO speak louder then our words in life...Thanks so much XXXX

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: Heck no! new
      #153301 - 02/23/05 01:27 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

you are a cutie...I am about to respond to your posts now :-)

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Re: you are not a bad daughter... new
      #153304 - 02/23/05 01:29 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

wow...thank you so much!! you really made me feel better about how I behaved today. I always second guess myself...thank you for making me feel good about reaching my satiation point and blowing up. I just couldn't watch it anymore. you know..my parents are excellent in other ways and always say about the IBS etc 'just try not to let it stress you out, relax, take a nap' etc etc...how can they say that and then bring something that stresses me out majorly (eating to death) into my own little cosy home???????? Like I would never bring something nonkosher into their home...I don't understand!!! thank you XXX

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Re: bad daughter??? NO WAY! new
      #153307 - 02/23/05 01:33 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Christie...you are so sweet, thank you. I really hope your mother wakes up to reality and begins to take care of herself too. I always say to my parents that when someone loves you, you have a responsibility to that person to keep yourself in as good as a shape as possible. its like - why does society consider suicide a selfish thing? because of the people that loved the person, left behind and the suffering they endure. we all have a responsibility to those that love us to take care of ourselves...which is my fundamental problem with people like your mum and my dad...their actions display an inherent selfishness which I don't think stems from a bad place...just a scared place, but nevertheless, it results in an insensitivity to us...and we suffer the burden of worry. its not fair. I feel very strongly about it. i really hope I create an environment when I have kids, in which they feel they can be totally honest with me without me preferring the option of shutting them up to hearing the real truth as they see it as intelligent, sensitive and loving human beings...
thanks again XXXX

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: You are not a bad daughter!! new
      #153308 - 02/23/05 01:33 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Thank you Michele....big hugs....I am going to jump and read your post on testing....thanks again XXXX

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Dalia..... new
      #153313 - 02/23/05 01:41 PM
Natalie1985

Reged: 08/09/04
Posts: 1329
Loc: UK - Leeds for uni, Merseyside for home!

Nice to have you back Ive missed you on the boards this last week or so. Im so sorry you're having to watch your dad like this....I would be exactly the same as you dont worry. You love him so ofcourse you care about his health and how he can help himself to be better. Especially as you know so much about nutrition dont beat yourself up over it....you are the best daughter...not a bad one! I also know what you mean about you having had to struggle through diet after diet etc with the ibs....that just makes things ten times worse doesnt it....and all you want to do is help him to hel himself. What if you wrote him a letter....and in it tell him everything about how you feel and why its so important to you etc....maybe that way he'll listen I dont know just a suggestion. Let us know how you get on....Im thinking of you and sending lots and lots of hugs your way! (((((((((HUGS))))))))))

--------------------
Natalie



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As a former sugar addict... new
      #153314 - 02/23/05 01:42 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

They are not doing this to you Dalia. They are doing it because they are hurting.

i ate sugar to cover everything up. It didn't matter how much hubby loved me....when I was in the food nothing else mattered.

It's very painful! Do you know why your dad can't give up the sweets? is there something in his life that happened to him?

I went from anorexia to overeating. When I didn't have the sugar I had to face myself. It took me a year of trying to get rid of the white stuff and meeting you and therapy to get me to where I am. But I had to recognize there was a problem 1st. Once I did that and began therapy things slowly got better for me......

But I'm still young. And I always knew there was a problem. And I became open about this in order to ge help (through the boards especially!) If your dad can't even admit there's a problem....THAT is why he brings it to your house.

On his end...it's scary NOT to have the sweet stuff. He would have to face himself. I know...I've been there.....

Hope this gives you a bit of insight at least 8hugs*

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Formerly known as Ruchie

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Re: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((DALIA))))))))))))))))))))))))))) new
      #153316 - 02/23/05 01:49 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Ruchie...you are so sweet. what a pure soul!! :-) Thank you for your advice and love! :-) Unfortunately I have tackled my dad on these issues and well....I am told to not discuss it instead of it being a forum for open and challenging interpretation. its so weird...my dad is so open about political discussion etc...he encourages it...but we CANNOT critisise him...nobody can...my mum tells him something about his weight and he tells her that she's not looking too hot herself (she looks great and does a hell of a lot of walking etc). very very very immature when it comes to these things. the thing that really makes me cry is this: that I really respect my father, but since these issues arose I respect him less, because I feel he is truly being a hypocrite. I would love to be able to tell him that...NOT in order to critisise, but in order to be honest and true. I completely lost control this morning...as soon as my father left the apartment I burst into tears (I can communicate openly with her) and started throwing away ANYTHING remotely sweet in the house, into the bin. I then went to the fridge and threw the carrot cake I had made on the floor and stamped on it!! It probably looked quite funny but I was totally enraged. I really reached my limit. My home is a haven I have waited a long time for. As I grew into a woman I became quite different from my parents and brothers. They are all closed about communication, I am very open. I like everything on the table, because I believe it is the only way that resentment is NOT fostered in human relationships...and that progress can only be made this way. I think honesty is one of the most important principles in the world. and to actively tell a person they must never discuss something again, as my father did with me that time, is to put a stamp on dihonesty as something acceptable. its passive dishonesty, but its still dishonesty. So for ages I lived in this home where the priorities were not the same as mine in many ways, and I was the only one with a chronic illness that had everyday symptoms. I dreamed long and hard for a day when I would have my own home and my own way of doing things. and I really think the thing that made me so angry was that the very thing my father had shut me up about was happening in MY home. I want my parents to be very comfortable here, but not at the expense of this big worry that creeps into my soul when I see him eating like that...its not fair to me. But I really want to be respectful and not lectury to him and to my mum too. its a hard balance to strike. I just found it disrespectful.
I am sorry I haven't replied to our email yet...:-( its been so busy...I will get to it soon, my parents are leaving tomorrow afternoon. its been a really good stay overall...apart from the heart attack food situation!! :-)
Thanks so much, you are an angel...lots of love XXXX

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Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: Dalia..... new
      #153319 - 02/23/05 01:50 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

hey natalie...I haven't even had a chance to read more about you and the twins, I MUST get to it! sooo busy here...thank you so much for your reply. unfortunately writing a letter is too cheesy for my dad...he will make fun of it and not deal with it...really annoying...it makes me feel rejected...
thanks so much for your advice...you are so sweet!!! XXXX

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Re: As a former sugar addict... new
      #153323 - 02/23/05 01:55 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

hey dolly
thanks for that...I remember the giving up sugar days too and the hiding behind bad food..its a great way to self destruct. I honestly can't say what it is with my dad...my parents are a bit weird to be honest. they have a unique history (mummy irish catholic converted to judaism...daddy orthodox jew with period of rebellion when he met my mum)...they really do NOT talk about their past. I know nothing of my maternal family and my dad makes out he was always religious etc...I think he tries to be a perfect him with respect to lifestyle habits and me confronting him about the food issue kind of exposes him...and he feels hurt/vulnerable...and uses aggression as a form of self defence...he would call any kind of psychoanalysis about why he eats the stuff as (example of something he has said to me before) 'oooohhh pop psychology'...he is a very intelligent knowledgable man..and very arrogant when it comes to him. he will readily admit in a lovely way that I, for example, know way more anatomy then him - because its a theoretical subject - but God forbid I actually APPLY my knowledge then BOOM...I'm in trouble!

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Dalia, honey... new
      #153325 - 02/23/05 01:59 PM
cailin

Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 3563
Loc: Dublin, Ireland

Dalia,

I have been in a very similar place as you are now with my Dad and his drinking, I am worried about his health etc too but he is too caught up in himself to listen. However, every now and then he takes stuff I have said to heart and listens, it could be days or even weeks after and he changes his drinking habits. This means that deep down all along even though he was rowing with me he understands why I am doing what I am doing. It hurts Dads when their little girls stand up to them, and they react badly but they do take some of it in.

However, one thing I will tell you is that I worried so much about my Dad that I got very sick and ended up in counselling- I was "diagnosed" as co-dependent which means that I worry so much about others and try to control their bad habits that I don't look after myself. I have to try really hard to keep this in check. I'm not diagnosing you by any means, just sharing a cautionary tale.

Hope you are feeling better,

your friend,

--------------------
S.

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No! new
      #153326 - 02/23/05 02:00 PM
Sheri01

Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 1731
Loc: New Jersey

You are not a bad daughter Dalia, just concerned! Most people look the other way. You share yo ucare more by wanting to help. I go through this same thing with my family alot. Like my mom that drinks a bottle of champagne a night after being diagnosed with high blood pressure.
best scenerio is that he comes around. He probably won't though , unless he feels really physically sick. Sad as it is, some people would rahter live 10 - 20 years shorter and eat junk that they love and not exercise. Really goes to show you how food and junk food is such a dangerous addiction.
And you were right, you do not need to stand for that in your home. At the very LEAST he could have tried hiding it from you, eating the junk when you are not around. But, you do not want to strain your relationship with him anymore to keep the peace it seems. It sounds like it will be a hrad decision for you decide wether to back off, or keep trying.
Good luck in whatever approach you take!
And I think you can learn alot from Bev's story, we all can.
Hugs to dalia!
And Hugs Bevvy! You almost made me cry.

XOXO

--------------------
-Sheri

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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153327 - 02/23/05 02:00 PM
melitami

Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 1213
Loc: Ewing, NJ, USA (IBS-D, Vegetarian)

*HUGS* You are NOT a bad daughter! You reached your breaking point, and you released your frustrations, it would have been really unhealthy if you hadn't done that! Sometimes, people, as much as you love them, you can't change them, they need to recognize their own problems as a problems before they'll be willing to fix them or get help. I know all too well what that's like from dealing with my grandmother who was an alcoholic (now recovering). Until SHE realized she had a drinking problem, nothing anyone else said or did meant anything to her.

*more HUGS* For your and his sake, I hope your dad does realize he has a problem and needs help, soon.

--------------------
Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent

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Dalia........ new
      #153331 - 02/23/05 02:03 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

PLEASE don't take it as rejection. This is just the way your dad is. It hurts me to hear you say that......

It sounds like your dad hasn't had the easiest life. and it sounds like he loves you but gets defensive any time you talk about HIM. *sigh*

I wish I had something to say. I just don't. It hurts me that he treats you this way. It's NOT your fault! It DOES hurt...but just realize it's not YOU...it's HIM with the problem.

Unfortunately when people harm themselves...they take those that care about them along for the ride.

Can you speak to your mom (mum?) about this/ What's er role?

*big hugs* foryou...don't give up! Maybe ne day things will change...praing for you With love, Ruchie

--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie

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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153341 - 02/23/05 02:08 PM
Vicam

Reged: 02/24/04
Posts: 1955
Loc: Ontario, Canada

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. You love your Dad and you're just trying to look out for him and there's nothing wrong with that It was very sweet of you to try and bake other treats and stuff for him to have. Ultimately though, he is an adult and a man and so it's unlikely you'll be able to make him change his ways if he's not willing to.

I hope you can work out some sort of happy medium

Kelly

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Re: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((DALIA))))))))))))))))))))))))))) new
      #153345 - 02/23/05 02:11 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

Dalia..

I feel like crying! YOU are being the religious one here. We are not allowed to hate another in our heart...it's against Halacha. We are SUPPOSED to be open. (Obviously not to step on people...to be respectful...). Can you tell your dad that (I'm sensing you can't)?

this hurts me so much! I hate seeing you so upset.:(

I'm sorry this is happening in your home. And I understand about wanting your home to be YOUR haven......

Don't worry about not e-mailing me back. It's ok! I carried everything you've taught me every day and it's been amazing! I know we'll pick up where we left of and continue on this wonderful Deredch! *hugs*

I'm always here for you Dalia! if there's anything more I can do...let me know ((((Dalia)))) You too are a pure Neshama! We make a good pair you and I

I gotta get going...getting a migraine from the computer I'll write more asap!

--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie

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You coudn't be any sweeter! new
      #153360 - 02/23/05 02:51 PM
Augie

Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois

Oh, Dalia, please don't be so hard on yourself.

Your words come from your love of your father and when it comes from love and concern, it can never be bad.

My brother has juvenile diabetes and I used to watch him eat cookies and cake. He was in so much denial and wanted to enjoy life. He didn't think about the long term consequences.

My cousin also had juvenile diabetes and when she was a teenager use to eat all the sugary sweets, wanting to be "normal" and not different than her friend. She started to losing most of her sight and was on dialysis at the age of 26. The only thing that saved her was here kidney/pancreas transplant. She was so sick.

The point is, no one had the guts to say anything strong enough or often enough to get through. You were brave to do this, not bad.

Once my brother married and had a child, it sunk in that he needed to start taking care of himself because it was not only his life anymore. He needed to be around for his family. Thank goodness for that.

I applaud your love, and your confronting your dad on his actions. He may be upset with you now. But he will come to realize that you said what you said out of love. And maybe, just maybe he'll think twice in his choices. If not, at least you will have the peace of mind that you tried to help him. You won't have to regret not doing anything and living with that guilt.

I say, keep at him. He is your father. He knows deep down you love him. He is lucky to have you as a daughter.

You are such a loving person. You did a loving thing. For that, I admire you.



--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!

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Re: You coudn't be any sweeter, BETH! new
      #153378 - 02/23/05 04:03 PM
Snow for Sarala

Reged: 03/12/03
Posts: 5430
Loc: West Coast, USA

You are so good to us on he boards! I especially like what you said to Dalia here. That you admire her for loving her father and being so open about it. You lern from everyone Beth...you are one of a kind *hugs*

--------------------
Formerly known as Ruchie

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Not a bad daughter at all...... new
      #153406 - 02/23/05 05:04 PM
barbie

Reged: 04/22/04
Posts: 2435
Loc: Texas

No, you are not being unreasonable. You love your dad and you want him to be healthy. But you can only do so much.
If he doesn't have the desire no matter what you do or say won't make a bit of difference.

You've tried but now it's time to let go. He will do what he wants and that's that.

I think you were being a great daughter by trying to help him.....he just doesn't want it.

Hang in there
Barbie

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I'll ditto this response because I couldn't say it better! HUG nt new
      #153414 - 02/23/05 05:25 PM
ecmmbm

Reged: 02/23/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: North Carolina



--------------------
Take care,
Michelle
...the greatest of these is LOVE. (I Cor 13)


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There's probably not a whole lot more I can say but. new
      #153423 - 02/23/05 06:05 PM
doubletrouble

Reged: 11/14/04
Posts: 1530
Loc: Canberra, Australia

No you are not a bad daughter. You are a fantastic daughter who is doing her best to help her dad lead a long healthy life and trying to stop him from harming himself permanently with food. I'm sure deep down he knows that you are right but it makes him angry because he doesn't want to have to change his diet. Big hugs. I'm sure you guys will get through this and feel free to come vent and get hugs whenever you need to.

--------------------
Amy


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NO WAY! not a bad daughter!! new
      #153448 - 02/23/05 07:26 PM
TommyNY

Reged: 04/29/04
Posts: 1530


Dalia my dear. You are not a bad daughter. Don't you ever think that! I go through the same struggles with my own dad. He does not have the same health problems as your dad but he is overweight and does not watch what he eat. I want him to lose some weight as he is permanently disabled with a degenerative back condition. He needs to lose the weight so his back doesn't get worse with all the extra weight it has to support. I have arguments upon arguments about his health. He doesn't even go to the doctor for a physical. He feels the doctor may find something wrong with him if he goes. UH, YEAH MAYBE!! But if the Dr. does find something he may be able to catch it early and treat it! His rationale is that when it is my time, it is my time. I keep telling him that it is not so easy. What if God-forbid he gets cancer or some other long term illness and we have to watch him suffer? He still does not budge. I still prod him but it does no good. You're not a bad daughter Dalia. You just want what is best for him as all daughters and sons want for their parents. Keep you head up ok? Vent all you want.

--------------------


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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153464 - 02/23/05 08:14 PM
BL

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 3522


Wow, you really threw his junk food away???

I'm sorry, I know you mean well and you want what's best for him, but I think a grown man should be able to make his own decisions, including what he will and won't eat!

Goodness, if you came to my house, you'd find plenty of junk food, including my worst vice, lots of Diet Coke! I know it's bad for me, but I love the stuff. I'd clobber someone before I'd let them throw it away!

When I go to my parents' house, I take Diet Cokes with me because they don't drink them. If they threw them away, I'd be so insulted that I'd leave immediately! I think the coffee they drink is bad for them, but I don't take that pleasure away from them. Everyone has their weaknesses~

I know you said he's overweight. I am too, but I hope my family still loves me regardless.

Sorry, don't mean to come down hard on you. It's your choice to eat healthy, but you can't police what everyone else puts in their mouth, even if it is a parent.















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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153466 - 02/23/05 08:40 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

wow...that was pretty hard of you (I am not angry or anything, just a bit taken aback!).Thanks for being honest though...
I absolutely tolerate many eating decisions that my parents make that I do not ethically approve of. things I would never dream of feeding them. this was a case of one thing after another and endless junk. its an issue with us and I am a great respectful daughter in every other way and they should be sensitive to it - I am sensitive to their principles (like keeping kosher etc). I do not lecture him ever. Never say anything. Today was the first words we had exchanged on his eating habits for a year and a half and believe me, its my profession, so its not easy to control my mouth but I never want to lecture anyone. So yes, everyone has their weaknesses, my husbands is coke, and I never flutter an eyelid because I know everything else he eats is good. but when it reaches a point of three thousand weaknesses, what am I supposed to do?
Of course your family still love you irrespective of weight. When did I ever say I love my father any less because of his weight? or because of his food choices???? this is all BECAUSE I love him so much.
I do not police what everyone eats....I am a great cook and baker and make so many different types of food...many of them I can't even think of digesting...I make a point of not handing out any advice to anyone about how they eat UNLESS they actively ask me. I know how sensitive people can be about their eating habits. You sound a little sensitive about your diet cokes for example!

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: NO WAY! not a bad daughter!! new
      #153469 - 02/23/05 09:09 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

Tommy...you are such a sweetie...I am so sorry I haven't replied to your email..been really busy with parents etc...I really hope your dad sees sense too :-) XXXX

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: There's probably not a whole lot more I can say but. new
      #153470 - 02/23/05 09:10 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you!! I hope your baby stops puking, from one emetaphobe to another - I think you are verrrrrry brave! :-)

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: Not a bad daughter at all...... new
      #153471 - 02/23/05 09:11 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you so much barbie XXXXXX it really helps to hear your opinion..I will back down now...I just want to be heard every few years, esp under my own roof when it gets too much XXXXX

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: You coudn't be any sweeter! new
      #153472 - 02/23/05 09:13 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you beth!! and thank you for your beautiful email...hope you got mine!!

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153473 - 02/23/05 09:13 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you so much XXXXXXX you are very right about men!!!

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: bad daughter??? new
      #153475 - 02/23/05 09:15 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you so much. I was so happy to hear that your grandmother faced her problem - its brave of her to face it head on like that....

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Re: No! new
      #153476 - 02/23/05 09:16 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

thank you sweetie. by the way you are looking gorgeous!!! :-) hope you are enjoying the single life!!kiss a good looking man for me!! :-)

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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Dalia new
      #153503 - 02/24/05 01:52 AM
Sara-Sage

Reged: 02/04/04
Posts: 5508


Dalia,

You are not being a bad daughter. I could never watch my dad do what your dad is doing and say nothing. Even though it's VERY hard for him to hear you, he probably knows that you're right. He just doesn't want to give up the things that he loves.

You can't change people. He needs to realize for himself that the things he is doing to his body are very harmful and will catch up with him one day. Is your mom on your side at all? Can she stop buying some of the junk that he likes to eat? If she could eat a healthy diet and help him stop eating junk food it might be easier for him.

My parents both smoke like chimneys. It breaks my heart. I have begged them both for the past 15 years to quit smoking. They have tried but have never been successful. It kills me because I have a nagging feeling that one, or both, of them will tell me they have cancer one day. They just say that they're going to die somedy no matter what, they might as well have enjoyed life while they were alove. It's a fruitless battle.

Try not to take it so personally. Big hugs to you Dalia.



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Dalia new
      #153540 - 02/24/05 05:47 AM
BL

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 3522


I know you love your father. I didn't mean to imply that. It's just that you must accept him and love him exactly like he is--- or I'm afraid it may jeapordize your relationship.

I say this because my mother-in-law has made my husband and I feel so uncomfortable at her house that we don't visit her much anymore. She draws the line in the sand about every little thing--- it's either her way or we don't stay at her house. So usually we just spend the holidays at another family member's house. We do go by and see her, but we don't spend the night there.

I think this is so sad. My husband (their only son) and our boys (their only grandchildren) don't spend as much time together as they could because she is so particular about every little thing. I have tried to get my husband to reconsider, but he doesn't feel comfortable there.

So many years lost .... I wish we could turn back the clock. To think that she has passed up on time she could spend with her grandchildren for all these little demands she placed on us!....it's just so silly.

When I have grandchildren, I'll be so happy to see them, that they can do whatever they want at my house! And that includes eating all the junk food they want!








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Re: Dalia new
      #153640 - 02/24/05 09:51 AM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

I understand that, and I am sorry for your experience with your mother in law. but you must understand that you are stating quite an extreme opinion based on your personal experience of an extreme personality (your mil). I think its terrible that she's made you feel SO uncomfortable. you have to understand that on the OTHER hand, people cannot offend you in your own house...eg my parents are religious jews and I would never bring non kosher food into their house, even though I eat it in my own house..it boils down to a level of basic respect...they do SO many things that aren't part of my life philosophy (many of them to do with eating and drinking) and I never say anything!!!I truly am sorry for whats happened with your MIL but I am SO not one of these people that are stuck in their own way...I just really became offended...

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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I did get it new
      #153762 - 02/24/05 02:12 PM
Augie

Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois

And of course I have some questions/comments. I will email them to you. Will you be around tonight or are mom and dad still here?

Hope it is going better between you all.

Love

--------------------
~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!

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Re: I did get it new
      #153773 - 02/24/05 02:44 PM
daliatree

Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 1176
Loc: Manhattan, New York

my parents just left...am around tonight!!

--------------------
Feel the fear and do it anyway!


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