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Seratonin & 5-htp
      #354234 - 01/08/10 08:35 AM
PMartin

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 140
Loc: Niagara Region

I tried getting this answered by keeping the original post going but I am admittedly impatient. Is the following accurate...

..."if you have D and your body is supposedly producing too much seratonin then adding more is not a good thing."

Can/does seratonin cause symptoms of D?


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IBS-D. Or so a doctor says.

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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp new
      #354235 - 01/08/10 09:20 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

PMartin, this is all extremely complex.

However, its not the total amount of serotonin in the body, but the release of serotonin at the gut level from specific cells called EC cells or enterochromaffin cells.

So there is dysregulation of serotonin signaling first at the gut level. But also part of altered singaling to the brain, because its a major neurotramsitter that signals to the brain distress or pain in the digestive tract.

"In the gut, serotonin is synthesized by and stored in the enterochromaffin cells, which are located within the mucosa of the intestinal wall. When material passes through the lumen and the mucosa is stimulated, enterochromaffin cells release serotonin, which then binds to its receptors (primarily 5-HT1P receptors) on intrinsic primary afferent neurons, initiating peristalsis and secretion"


So these cells initiate peristalsis and secretion. Another words they intiate gut contractions.

So its not the total amount in the body per se, but the amount released from the ec cells and then what happens at the cellular level after its release.

So you know though high levels of serotonin in the brain can cause anxiety and the right amount in the brain can cause relaxation.

The serotonin in the gut does not go to the brain itself, but signals up nerve fibers to the brain, importantantly pain and discomfort.

I have a ton of information on all this so you know.

I have to post this as the link no longer exists.

June 19, 2001
.
A:

Irritable bowel syndrome is now recognized as a disorder of serotonin activity. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter in the brain that regulates sleep, mood (depression, anxiety), aggression, appetite, temperature, sexual behavior and pain sensation. Serotonin also acts as a neurotransmitter in the gastrointestinal tract.

Excessive serotonin activity in the gastrointestinal system (enteric nervous system) is thought to cause the diarrhea of irritable-bowel syndrome. The enteric nervous system detects bowel distension (expansion) on the basis of pressure-sensitive cells in the bowel lumen (opening). Once activated, these pressure-sensitive cells promote the release of serotonin, which in turn promotes both secretory function and peristaltic function (the contractions of the intestines that force the contents outward). At least four serotonergic receptors have been identified to be participants in the secretory and peristaltic response.

Patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS may have higher levels of serotonin after eating than do people without the disorder. This recognition led to the development of the first drug used specifically to treat diarrheal symptoms of IBS, alosetron (also known as Lotronex). Alosetron blocked the specific serotonin receptors responsible for recognizing bowel distention. In doing so, it blocked the effects of serotonin and reduced both bowel secretions and peristalsis. Constipation was the most common side effect seen. (Note: Alosetron was removed from the market by the manufacturer after repeated reports of a dangerous condition known as ischemic colitis became known.) Tegaserod (Zelmac) is another drug under development and under review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approval. Tegaserod is indicated for the treatment of constipation-predominant IBS and works to increase enteric nervous system serotonin activity.

So, increasing serotonin activity in the enteric nervous system produces increased bowel secretions and peristalsis (and potentially diarrhea), whereas depressing serotonin activity produces reduced secretions and reduce peristalsis (and potentially constipation). Increasing serotonin activity in the brain would increase awareness and, in higher doses, produce anxiety, insomnia and restlessness."

Taking 5htp is not likely to effect the bowel per se either, because that is not really how it works, tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin.

It might cause "anxiety, insomnia and restlessness" at the brain level, which could then contribute to more symptoms.

Or it may possible help calm a person, depending on how high it is in the brain to begin with so you know.

Over the years this question has been asked a lot and they don't really recommend taking 5htp supplements. You also have to e somewhat careful where the 5ht supplment comes from.

Video Corner: Serotonin

Increasingly our understanding of IBS is that it is a heterogeneous disorder – that is, multiple factors contribute to the well defined symptoms of the disorder. One of these suspected underlying dysfunctions involves serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter or messenger to nerves. Most serotonin in the body is in cells that line the gut where it senses what is going on and through receptors signals nerves that stimulate a response. The serotonin must then be reabsorbed (a process called re-uptake) into cells. This process appears to be disrupted in people with IBS.

Serotonin and SERT
How does serotonin affect gut function? An interview with Gary M. Mawe, PhD, Professor of Anatomy and Neurobiology, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT. Dr. Mawe is a basic scientist.

http://www.aboutibs.org/site/learning-center/video-corner/serotonin

Diet of course ccould possibly contribute to increase serotonin production at the gut level and this is being studied.

This is a part of what they have figured out, although not completely why there is altered motility in IBS, the d and c and d/c.









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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp new
      #354244 - 01/08/10 10:08 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

The short answer is no.

A typical 5-HTP supplement contains about 50 mg of l-tryptophan (5-HTP). 5-HTP is derived from tryptophan (an essential amino acid) and then converted by the body to serotonin.

A 100 gram serving of turkey contains about 400 mg of tryptophan. If a serving of turkey doesn't give you D then a pure 5-HTP supplement with 1/8 the amount won't.


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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp new
      #354258 - 01/08/10 11:56 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

There is some issue here I can't remember exactly, if you ate the turkey on a tootally empty stomack you might slightly feel the effect, but other foods and can't remember what ones altered the metabolism of trytophan the percurser to Serotonin.

Remember when your relaxed that means the right balance in the brain and you can achieve this naturally with practice for most.

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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp new
      #354261 - 01/08/10 12:13 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

You can find lots of comments about feeling sleepy after eating a turkey dinner because of the high amount of tryptophan it contains. I have not experienced it myself

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp syl new
      #354262 - 01/08/10 12:26 PM

Unregistered




I think turkey causes me nasty burps and gas..syl I'm findind potato chunks in my stool I don't know why?

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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp new
      #354264 - 01/08/10 12:30 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

although they found on "Thanksgiving day" it wasn't the serotonin from the turkey but from eating so much in general.



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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp syl new
      #354265 - 01/08/10 12:32 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

you might want to get a transit study done to see how fact food is moving through your digestive tract. However a symptoms of it moving to fast would be malabsortion and malnutrition and weight loss.

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Re: Seratonin & 5-htp syl new
      #354266 - 01/08/10 12:33 PM

Unregistered




don't have any of those symptoms,maybe though malabsortion? or perhaps it was because I ate less than an hour before bedtime? would u say blackberries are well tolerated? I only eat them in a smoothie with a banana or I boiled them into syrup,while they didn't melt or disinegrate,I spread it on top a ibs safe panacke best I could.

Edited by aperson (01/08/10 12:36 PM)

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Seratonin follow-up
      #354327 - 01/09/10 09:00 AM
PMartin

Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 140
Loc: Niagara Region

So, if I understand this, the following is true...?

...excessive levels of serotonin could cause symptoms of diarrhea?

* 5-htp may be effective for resolving IBS-C symptoms but not likely for IBS-D?
* How can one determine their level of serotonin and whether it's normal, too low or too high?
* What's the current status of alosetron (also known as Lotronex)? How does Lomotil compare?
* Is there a diet (or any other method/drug) for managing your desired level of serotonin?
* I've had issues with insomnia and restlessness and know there is a connection between whether I get a good night's sleep (which is not often) and how bad my symptom's are; is this an indication of anything?

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IBS-D. Or so a doctor says.

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