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ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information?
      #352350 - 11/17/09 04:17 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


I just read this article about a study done eliminating foods with IgG antibodies that showed symptom reduction as compared to the control group. Is this study out dated or useful? Thanks!

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352353 - 11/17/09 04:44 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

frygurl, I have already done a lot of research on this study and highly respect Dr Whorewell a lot, but this won't do you any good. IBS is for one not caused by food, food allergies or food intolerences, they are triggers to the underlying disorder just like someother things are, like hormones and stressors, but not the cause or pathophysiology of IBS.

But second from actual allergy specialists, this one if from Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy, but the USA postion paper is the same on this.

Unorthodox Techniques for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Allergy, Asthma and Immune Disorders

"Food specific IgG, IgG4
Use: Diagnosis of food sensitivity / allergy.

Method: Antibodies to food are measured using standard laboratory techniques.

Evidence: Level II

Comment: IgG antibodies to food are commonly detectable in healthy adult patients and children, independent of the presence of absence of food-related symptoms. There is no credible evidence that measuring IgG antibodies is useful for diagnosing food allergy or intolerance, nor that IgG antibodies cause symptoms. In fact, IgG antibodies reflect exposure to allergen but not the presence of disease. The exception is that gliadin IgG antibodies are sometimes useful in monitoring adherence to a gluten-free diet patients with histologically confirmed coeliac disease. Otherwise, inappropriate use of food allergy testing (or misinterpretation of results) in patients with inhalant allergy, for example, may lead to inappropriate and unnecessary dietary restrictions, with particular nutritional implications in children. Despite studies showing the uselessness of this technique, it continues to be promoted in the community, even for diagnosing disorders for which no evidence of immune system involvement exists."

http://www.allergy.org.au/pospapers/unorthodox.htm

I take you you have D IBS?

You might also be interested in reading this short writing from Dr Drossman writing to me on foods and IBS. He is the chairman of the Rome conmmitte to diagnose Functional gi disorders and one of the major recognized leaders in IBS.

http://www.ibshealth.com/ibsfoods2.htm

I can try to show and explain something to you much more important however if your interested.



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352355 - 11/17/09 04:50 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Frygirl, also just so you know I have been a chef for 25 years at a highend establishment, actually the number 1 seafood chain in the country, although they do a lot more then seafood. I am not doing that now however. There restaurants are all over the country and can be IBS friendly.

http://www.mccormickandschmicks.com/



--------------------
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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352357 - 11/17/09 04:54 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


I predominately have IBS-C, but with the wrong foods (especially high fat) and/or an emotional upset, I can have a D attack with lots of pain that can last for a few days.

I understand that food is not the cause of IBS, but diet can do a lot to manage the symptoms. My diet is super restricted right now, and I am still quite symptomatic. I wonder if there is something I am eating regularly that I am reacting to, but I can't figure out what it is.

What makes the study Dr. Whorewell did less useful than the one you posted from the allergy specialists? The study Dr. Whorewell did was on IBS patients after all. I always find it difficult to make sense of information when there are so many contradictory studies out there.

I am interested in thoughts about diet beyond the EFI recommendations. I am following those to a T and as I said I am still symptomatic nearly 24 hours a day.

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352359 - 11/17/09 04:56 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Thanks for this! I live near one and may just try it out. Eating out is SO frustrating. I just found out today that the tasty new restaurant that opened in my neighborhood marinates their grilled chicken breast in a sauce with butter. Aack!

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352360 - 11/17/09 05:22 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Frygirl, the first thing is a food allergy reaction might cause D. It sounds slightly that you lean to c, but alternate. This has to do with serotonin being released from cells in your gut, not food.

Part of this I think your missing is emotional upset, but even more then that is how it physically works, because it triggers the same cells food allergies do and that is what I was going to help you with.

Diet of course can help a lot, but there is a lot more to it all, for one its well know the act of eating itself triggers symptoms. There is a lot of info on this

"Dr. Drossman: Shawn - eating causes stretching of the stomach when the stomach strecthes it releases hormones or peptides that stimulate the lower bowel. Because people with IBS overrespond to stimuli (like peptide release) you get an exaggerated motility response and pain, so smaller meals reduce this"

So the act of eating stimulates the large colon to go, not the food itself, this is in Heathers book as well. I have a lot more on this.

To restricted of a diet can cause problems you have to be careful about.

"What makes the study Dr. Whorewell did less useful than the one you posted from the allergy specialists"

The allergy specialists wasn't a study it is well known in allergy research from allergy specialists.

Dr. Whorewell study was useful, but its way more complex then you realize and a preliminary study, which doesn't apply yet. A lot of these foods are already known triggers for a lot of reasons. It can be hard to understand them if you don't know much about them or the purpose or read a lot about IBS or even allergy and food intolerences which is what I ended up doing. This is also done under close supervision. Have you ever seen a dietian, not a nutritionist, but a registered dietian?

Dr Whorewell is also an expert on Hypnotherapy for IBS and has had major success with that, did you knw that?

"It's well known that patients expend large sums of money on a variety of unsubstantiated tests in a vain attempt to identify dietary intolerances," say the authors. This is not to say that diet is the be-all-and-end-all. "IBS is multifactorial so food is not the whole answer," says Dr Whorwell. But the right diet goes a long way. "When a patient responds to the diet the [improvement] does not wear off," says Dr Whorwell. "However, other factors can still make patients worse."

"I'm going to deal with these endorsements separately. Although it isn't clear from the quotation attributed to her, Muriel Simmons may be relying upon a study into IgG testing and an elimination diet in a group of people with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). In the abstract for that paper, the authors quite properly restrict the scope of their conclusions: Food elimination based on IgG antibodies may be effective in reducing IBS symptoms and is further biomedical research. [Emphasis added.]

Dr. Hunter, who has research interests and publications in IBS, made the following comments about the value of the findings from that study: Food Elimination in IBS: The Case for IgG Testing Remains Doubtful.
The percentage of patients showing substantial benefit from this diet is disappointing. In studies using a well conducted and rigorous elimination diet, the "number needed to treat" is between 1.5 and 2.2 [refs]. The "number needed to treat" in this study was 9. (The value of 2.5, calculated on the basis of those who fully complied with the diet, abrogates the intention to treat principle.)

This seemingly poor response to an IgG based diet confirms the widely held view to date that IgG testing for food intolerance is not of value. [refs] These results suggests that if IgG testing identifies food intolerances at all, it does so fortuituously and with an apparent low degree of accuracy.


Not advise for patients to use, but for further biomedical testing.

Something to note here is a cell called the mast cell, which is involved in IBS and food allergies and directly to a physiologic stress responce all humans have, it is very important in IBS and can cause d and pain, which is why I wanted to point it all out to you.

What else do you do besides diet for IBS management?








--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352361 - 11/17/09 05:28 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon


You might want to read this also

"We reviewed the scientific evidences of these tests (specificity, sensibility, rationale, reproducibility). According to most studies none of them had to be recommended as useful for the diagnosis of food allergy or intolerance. Physicians should alert patients about the risk of an indiscriminate use of these test in the diagnosis of food allergy. In fact the use of an incorrect diet could be dangerous, particularly in childhood, as recently shown."


http://breathspakids.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-igg-testing-for-food-intolerance-is.html

--------------------
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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352362 - 11/17/09 05:30 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

You can basically ask the to give you plain food or whatever you want there.



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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352363 - 11/17/09 05:42 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Shawneric, I do understand that emotional upset is a huge factor for IBS. I am doing things to manage that side of things as well including yoga, meditation, anxiety support group, and I am also seeing a psychologist who is working with me on cognitive behavioral therapy.

I've done Michael's hypnosis tapes one time through a couple years ago (with no noticeable symptom reduction), and started them again a few months ago. But I found myself tense and upset while listening - when I was feeling vulnerable a lot of emotional troubles would come to the surface and distract me from Michael's voice. I asked for Marilyn's opinion, and she said that I should take a break and see if those issues resolve. They are complex, stemming from a chaotic childhood, so I am working with my therapist on that piece. For now, I am holding off on the hypnosis until my mind is more able to focus on addressing IBS. Then I will start over again.

I also understand the act of eating itself can trigger symptoms. And as I said, I don't believe the diet to be a be all, end all answer, but I wonder if I am doing the best I can in that department, thus my question about the study. You answered my question about the study - that the IgG antibodies are not a clear indicator of anything.

I met with a registered dietitian just last week. She was surprisingly knowledgeable about IBS, compared to most medical professionals I've worked with, including my two GI doctors. She said no two IBS patients are alike in terms of what foods they can tolerate, that's a very individual thing. She did recommend I try eating a little dairy since I've been off it for three months. I did this and the next day I had D and nausea all day.

She also recommended that I have a RAST test done by an allergy doctor to check for actual food allergies, so I am scheduled for that Friday. Other than that, she said I need to do my best to incorporate protein and fruits and veggies with my complex carbs, and continue taking a multivitamin to cover any deficiencies I may be missing in my diet.

I suppose I am looking for an answer that isn't there. I don't know.

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352364 - 11/17/09 05:46 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Okay Frygirl this is very important. Long yes I know, but I can't post a link. I will also help explain it to you, because it is extremely important.

Dr Wood is a leading IBS researcher and also a food allergy specialist. He is the one the coined the term, "Brain in the gut", or the ENTERIC NERVOUS SYSTEM, that runs digestion, there is actually like a mini brain in the gut that runs digestion have you ever heard of it?.

"Dr. Jack Wood, a renowned physiologist at The Ohio State University calls the ENS the little-brain-in-the-gut.

"Dear Shawn:

Sorry for the delayed reply to your question. I generally agree with Dr. Drosssman's response. A subgroup of individuals when they become sensitized to specific molecules in certain foods respond to ingestion of the molecules with symptoms of cramping abdominal pain, fecal urgency and explosive watery diarrhea. These are also the primary symptoms of diarrhea-predominant IBS. Enteric mast cells, by mechanisms we don't understand, become sensitized to the food molecule and respond to its presence by releasing a signal to the brain-in-the-gut (ENS) which is interpreted as a threat. The ENS responds by running a program which organizes secretion and motility into a behavior pattern of the bowel, which rapidly clears the threat from the lumen. Because to be effective secretion occurs in large volumes and the contractions that accomplish rapid propulsion are strong, running of the program has the side effects of diarrhea and cramping pain.

Big brain input to mast cells during stress activates the mast cells to evoke the symptoms resulting from exposure of the mast cells to sensitizing food antigens. Aside from food allergens and mast cells, certain chemicals such as those in hot peppers, stimulate sensory nerves in the ENS and we are beginning to understand how this can also lead to food-related symptoms that might mimic or exacerbate IBS.

Hope this helps,

Jackie (Jack) D. Wood "

You have two brains: one in your head and another in your gut. Dr. Jackie D. Wood is a renowned physiologist at The Ohio State University. He calls the second brain, "the-little-brain-in-the-gut." This enteric nervous system is part of the autonomic nervous system and contains over one hundred million neurons, which is as many as are in the spinal cord. This complex network of nerves lines the walls of the digestive tract form the esophagus all the way down to the colon. This little brain in the gut is connected to the big brain by the vagus nerves, bundles of nerve fibers running from the GI tract to the head. All neurotransmitters, such as serotonin that are found in the brain are also present in the gut.

Dr Wood has discovered that this little-brain-in-the-gut has programs that are designed for our protection and which are very much like computer programs. They respond to perceived threats in the same way that the limbic system or the emotional brain does. So the threat of a gastrointestinal infection can activate the program that increases gut contractions in order to get rid of the infection. The symptoms are abdominal cramping and diarrhea.

Dr. Wood has determined that a type of cell found in the body and the gut, called the mast cell, is a key to understanding the connection of the big brain in the head with the little-brain-in-the-gut. Mast cells are involved in defense of the body. In response to certain threats or triggers, such as pollen or infection, mast cells release chemicals, such as histamine, that help to fight off the invader. Histamine is one of the chemicals that causes the symptoms of an allergy or a cold. When an infection of the gut occurs, such as food poisoning or gastroenteritis, the mast cells of the gut release histamine. The little-brain-in-the-gut interprets the mast cell signal of histamine release as a threat and calls up a protective program designed to remove the threat at the expense of symptoms: abdominal pain and diarrhea.

The brain to mast cell connection has a direct clinical relevance for irritable bowel syndrome and other functional gastrointestinal syndromes. It implies a mechanism for linking allostasis and the good stress response to irritable states (e.g., abdominal pain and diarrhea) of the gut. Mast cells can be activated to release histamine in response to perceived psychological stress, whether the stressor or trigger is consciously perceived or not. So the end result is the same as if an infection activated the program in the-little-brain-in-the-gut: abdominal pain and diarrhea."

"Mast cells can be activated to release histamine in response to perceived psychological stress, whether the stressor or trigger is consciously perceived or not."

This system is connected to what is called the fight or flight responce, which goes off in normal people around 200 times a day and more in IBSers, because they preceive threats, such as pain and d, which then triggers pain and d.

I know this is complex, but it is a very important thing to learn in IBS and can be use practically, everyday when you learn about it.



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352365 - 11/17/09 05:48 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Good post frygirl and I will get back to you on it, but your doing the right things, it might just take time and people have flares that come and go sometimes. I will get back to you and help where I can.

--------------------
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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352366 - 11/17/09 06:13 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


It is complex, but I think I get the gist. What does this mean in terms of treatment? To reduce stress, of course, but life requires a certain amount of stress. And personally, my symptoms are just as bad now as they were when I was working at a highly stressful job. I believe my baseline for reacting to a perceived stressor is higher than most people's because I've kept that stress level up so high for so long. That's my 'normal', if you will. I'm sure this doesn't help my IBS symptoms, especially in light of the information you provided. As I said, I am working on that, and I do think I am doing a lot of good things to reduce it.

Also, I don't primarily get D, especially since I've cut fatty foods from my diet. On a day to day basis, my complaints vary a lot from being overly gassy, bloated, nauseous, twingey pain to more widespread pain in my abdomen, minor cramping, heartburn, reflux, dizzy, weak, fatigued, a sense of urgency that most often passes with gas only, strong, uncomfortable pressure and nerve sensations in my pelvic region. Can I assume that most, if not all these symptoms are affected by the same process you described in your post?

One thought occurred to me: you said the big brain communicates to the little brain through the vagus nerve. To my understanding, the vagus nerve is also responsible for gastric emptying. It seems significant to me that I have gastroparesis and IBS, both of which involve the vagus nerve. Thoughts?

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352371 - 11/17/09 07:01 PM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

As an aside, whenever I eat yeasty foods ( and yeast and yeast extracts is in a lot of foods), I get that gurgling, gassy, bloating, sometimes D effect...pretty well everytime. I see yeast was high on the list. I developed yeast intolerance in the last 15 years or so; figured it out on my own by trial and error. I know I feel better when I don't eat processed foods in general. If a particular food bothers you, don't eat it. Don't wait for any study, or rely another person's experience or opinion to tell you whether it is "safe."

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yeast new
      #352377 - 11/17/09 10:36 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


Thanks Kim - it's interesting that yeast is a problem for you. I do consume a fair amount of sourdough bread and probably some processed things with yeast, so that is a possibility. I've personally had difficulty figuring out what other foods bother me - the symptoms are with me all the time and my diet is so restricted right now. I have to eat something! So I've been hoping to find some other indicators to help me figure out what it could possibly be. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it's unrealistic to expect my diet to fix these symptoms, thus my confusion. Anyway, I appreciate your insight on yeast.

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A bit more clarification new
      #352382 - 11/18/09 07:01 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Shawneric has done an excellent job of discussing Ig test and IBS.

I have read the original article in the journal GUT. Following the article there were two letters from knowledgeable researchers that pointed out that this study had a design flaw. I can post these comments if you would like to read them. In a subsequent paper the senior author of the reported paper wrote that the mechanism by which IgG food antibodies could be mediating a detrimental effect in IBS is unclear; however, there mounting evidence to support a low grade inflammatory process in some patients. It is tempting to speculate that IgG antibodies could be involved in this process but the evidence is not clear.

I find that I have to be cautious about medical studies reported in the press. The only true account comes from reading the original study which can be difficult because the articles are technical and you need to belong to an institution that has a subscription in order to access them.

In January 2009 the American College of Gastroenterology Task Force on IBS released a report An Evidence-Based Systematic Review on the Management of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. You might find Section 2.6 Diet and irritable bowel syndrome on page S17 of some interest. They conclude patients often believe certain foods exacerbate their IBS symptoms. There is, however, insufficient evidence that food allergy testing or exclusion diets are efficacious in IBS and their routine use outside of a clinical trial is not recommended.

Another great question

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: A bit more clarification new
      #352399 - 11/18/09 11:12 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Just fyi, but the " low grade inflammatory process in some patients' is seen more in PI IBSers, but also in IBS. This can happen when fighting the intial infection in PI IBS, but the infection goes away and a person is still left with PI IBS which can develop into "classic IBS" and the body not working right and so it thinks there is still an infection going on and keeps sending signals to the mast cells to fight the infection which isn't there. Kindof like an autoimmune responce, which can be driven by the stress of IBS itself, the symptoms themselves and life stressors, both emotional and physical in general. Say you feel a d attack coming on, your brain senses that as a threat to you, a threat to the organism and mounts a responce or even a pain attack. Fear and perceived or real threats can set this in motion. So just a perceived threat can set it in motion also and there are ways to calm this action down.

One thing to note is it is MACROSCOPIC inflammation of specific cells, mainly the mast cells I have been talking about on this thread and why I am saying its so important to learn about them and the process, but some others as well.

This is all so complex, but stress or a threat to the organism launches a chemical reaction that triggers the HPA axis or hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and the bodies fight or flight, before a person is conciously aware of it even, this sends signals to the mast cells which then degradulate and release histimine, the histimine, is like mild toxin the smooth muscle of the colon and contributes to d and pain. Stress can also reactivate previous inflammation of cells this way as well. This process is called neurogenic inflammation. This is something Dr Wood is explaining on this thread, its very important in IBS.

This is an expert on it all and its not a theory.

Comment from Emeran A. Mayer, M.D. -- In contrast to the common interpretation of the term "stress" as a psychological phenomenon, it should be understood as any real or perceived perturbation of an organism's homeostasis, or state of harmony or balance. For example, in this viewpoint a severe hemorrhage, starvation, extreme temperature, or worry about the unpredictable onset of abdominal pain all qualify as stressors -- some as "physical" stressors, others as "psychological" stressors. The fear to leave the house in the morning without knowing if one can make it to work without having to stop on the freeway because of an uncontrollable bowel movement, or the fear of experiencing uncontrollable abdominal discomfort during an important business meeting are sufficient stressors to activate the central stress system.

The central stress system involves the release of chemical stress mediators in the brain (such as corticotropin releasing factor), which in turn orchestrate an integrated autonomic, behavioral, neuroendocrine, and pain modulatory response. This biological response in turn will alter the way the brain and the viscera interact, and this altered brain-gut interaction can result in worsening of IBS symptoms. Thus, pain and discomfort, fear of these symptoms, activation of the stress response, and modulation of the brain-gut interactions by stress mediators are part of a vicious cycle which need to be interrupted to produce symptom relief.

The neurobiology of stress is not a theory, but a topic that can be studied in animal models, and one of the hottest topics in drug development for treatment of IBS (e.g., substance P antagonists, corticotropin releasing factor antagonists).


This is an excellent article on it all.


The Neurobiology of Stress and Emotions- IBS
By: Emeran A. Mayer, M.D.
UCLA Collaborative Centers for Integrative Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, California

http://ibs.med.ucla.edu/Articles/PatientArticle003.htm

The fight or flight responce can make you go.

http://www.thebodysoulconnection.com/EducationCenter/fight.html



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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352400 - 11/18/09 11:21 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Frygirl, you have a lot going on its a combination of a lot of things, even worrying about foods and what to eat can stress you mentally and physically as well.

Its good your seeing a dietian, as well as the other help your getting, it can be a slower process then you might want but in the end it can help. The CBT can help with this aspect as well.

Don't self diagnose yourself with "yeast syndrome" and eliminate even more foods.

I use to have a problem everytinme I ate popcorn. After the Hypnotherapy I don't anymore. Foods are part of the triggers, but importantly there is more to the conditon then foods themselves,and that is something to keep in mind. You don't want to eat foods that upset you, nor do you want to cut out all foods, because something else is upsetting your gut, like the act of eating itself. If a food constantly sets it off then you saty away from it, but its also important to try them a couple times to see how you do react, so you don't end up eliminating all foods and then get malnutrition. Some foods make your body work right.
I know some IBSers that have also ended up with major food phobias and I mean serious issues.



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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352402 - 11/18/09 11:43 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Your are getting the gist and that is a good thing, not many people care really, but it is super important. Your making the connections though.

I did not know you had gastroparesis and that is important.

"Gastroparesis also can also result from damage to the vagus nerve, the nerve that controls the stomach's muscles"

A lot of the symptoms your mentioning can be involed in this and IBS. Some just for gastroparesis and some for IBS, but also you have symptoms of upper gi like the reflux. IBS is lower GI mainly of the functioning of the sigmoid colon.

"Other, less frequent effects of gastroparesis are the promotion of gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and malnutrition."

http://www.medicinenet.com/gastroparesis/article.htm

A person can have IBS and Gastroparesis.

" believe my baseline for reacting to a perceived stressor is higher than most people's because I've kept that stress level up so high for so long. That's my 'normal', if you will. I'm sure this doesn't help my IBS symptoms,"

Exactly and its good your working on it, it cvan go a long way and you might find out how tightly wound up a person can get, without realizing it, because it seems normal. Yet the stress hormones flood the body still. The symptoms your are decribing are effected by it all.

The gut brain communicates to the big brain and the big brain communicate to the gut brain via the vagus nerve and there are issues in both conditions so yes its important.
It may also help to explain why you have C and some d better.

The sensation of pain in the gut arises from signaling in the gut via serotonin, which sends a signals up nerve fibers to the brain that a person is in distress or in pain. The chemical itsel doesn't go from the gut to the brain just the electrical and chemnical signaling process.

There are different physical reasons a person can have gastroparesis and that is also important as the above article states. Food digestion itself can be messed up with gastroparesis as well. Even more important to work with a registered dietian.

You are working on something in the right direction for sure, that can help you.

Do you have a good gi doctor and primary care doctor?





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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352418 - 11/18/09 01:20 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


All the dietitian and my GI doctor told me concerning gastroparesis is to keep to a low fat diet and avoid 'roughage' because both of these things slow down digestion. They both also said to eat small meals. All of these things I already do on the EFI diet, so no real changes there. None of my doctors think I am malnourished, they've done some blood tests to make sure. I also take a multivitamin, so my GP told me that's a good insurance policy, especially since I am on a highly restricted diet. My naturopathic doctor wants me to start taking digestive enzymes and possible Betaine HCL to help improve digestion in the stomach.

I use to have incredibly bad heartburn around the clock. I took two types of acid blockers which honestly just made my symptoms worse. Thanks to my naturopathic doctor, who gave me a supplement containing licorce root, marshmallow root, slippery elm, and aloe vera, my tummy is much less irritated feeling these days. She also has me take a teaspoon of lemon juice 15 minutes before I eat each meal, to help digestion. This has also helped.

I'm not sure about the quality of my personal doctors. I changed GI doctors recently because I got brushed off by my old GI doc once she diagnosed me with IBS. My new one is better at listening to me and is the one who ordered the gastric emptying study leading to a diagnosis of gastroparesis. We've discussed medications for both conditions. Since my gastroparesis is not severe, meaning I don't have problems keeping food down, I decided not to take drugs for it because the drug approved in the US has serious side effects. In terms of the IBS, my GI doctor provided a scrip for Bentyl to manage painful spasms when I am in a bad cycle, but I think Heather's peppermints are relatively effective at that without the side effects. He said there isn't much for treating IBS-C. Amitryptiline causes constipation as a side effect, so it doesn't seem like a great option for me.

My GP is really nice and sweet, and she hears me. But again, there is very little she can do to help me. I don't know if these constitute good relationships, but they are the best I've had in all the years I've been seeing doctors about my digestive problems.

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352455 - 11/19/09 01:33 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Sounds like your new GI Doc is helping.

I would still ask him what he thought might be the actual cause of your gastroparesis.

I know it must be very hard to have both conditions. Sounds like your making some progress.


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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352463 - 11/19/09 02:28 PM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


My GI doctor said my gastroparesis is idiopathic, meaning they don't know the cause. It is tough having both, but I try to keep it in perspective. I'm not running to the toilet 10 times a day, nor have I ever. I am thankful for that. But my quality of life is pretty low because I am either uncomfortable or in pain nearly all the time.

I appreciate all the information you provided. I feel like I have a good understanding on the physiology of IBS and now really understand why hypnosis helps so much. I will continue doing what I am doing and be patient. I know I am on the right track.

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Re: ShawnEric or Syl - What do you think of this information? new
      #352503 - 11/20/09 10:16 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

Frygirl, no problem and I hope some of the information helps.
I will post a little on the HT for IBS for you, just a couple things soon.

its good your not running to the toilet all the time, some IBSrs with d have to keep doing that, I use to go seriously sometimes 5 to ten times, an I have alternating, but leans more to d, the HT really helped that part as well.

The pain part is very important to work on and I will go into that some for you as well. Do you know the term "viceral hypersensivity"?



--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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ShawnEric - Medication question new
      #352505 - 11/20/09 10:23 AM
frygurl

Reged: 08/18/09
Posts: 332


This may seem silly, but since part of the IBS process is a histamine release in the gut, wouldn't an anti-histamine like Benadryl help relieve symptoms?

Also, since the sympathetic nervous system is involved with IBS, would drugs that work with that that system, such as a beta blocker, which reduces the bodies adrenaline response, be helpful for IBS?

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Re: ShawnEric - Medication question new
      #352515 - 11/20/09 10:49 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

There are many drugs being researched on all these aspects, specific ones.

Sometimes some people take a anti-histamine and feel better and ask why, and sometimes not, it is only one part of the problem.

I was recently prescibed a drug called Propranolol, a beta blocker for high blood pressure. I started it a while back, then had to discontinue because I got shingles and was on so many drugs for that, until they went away.

I plan on taking it again soon.

You would have to ask your doctor about it in your particular case. It can be used however to slow the physiologic responce to stressors.

again there are druggs being worked on in the pipeline for these reasons mentioned. One is called a CRF antagonist.

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My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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