Reading a lot about IBS but very confused.
#323243 - 01/26/08 01:39 PM
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jana67
Reged: 01/26/08
Posts: 10
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Hello,
I'm new to this forum. I've read the links before joining. I've also purchased both of Heather's books and have skimmed them.
I am very confused about the insoluble vs. soluble fiber rules and I would like to understand this more. I was taught that insoluble fiber relieves constipation. I've seen dozens of constipated people relieved by eating Fiber One cereal or bars, for example, as well as drinking more water and exercising. And these same folks are told to eat whole wheat bread, and not wheat bread.
Eating soluble fiber foods such as white bread, white rice, etc., just goes against everything I've ever been taught. Even the nurse at my dr's office told me I was eating too many carbohydrates and that carbs are binding.
I've always been able to relieve occassional constipation when I eat bran, high insoluble cereals, etc.
This website also says that eating soluble fiber foods can help with diverticular disease. Again, I was taught that we need a lot of INSOLUBLE fiber when you have diverticulosis.
Please help me understand what I am missing because I have been feeling physically terrible for over a week and do not want to land in the hospital again only to be told to take an enema (which did not help me move my bowels, either).
I am highly motivated to do whatever it takes. I have even given up coffee this past week which is a major thing for me to do. I am only drinking herbal tea--peppermint or ginger.
Thank you in advance. For now, I am... 
Jana
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Dearest Jana,
Honey, I can feel your pain and I am so sorry to hear that you're having such a hard time. I am just like you, prone to constipation. I used to get so constipated, that I wouldn't "go" for a week. My whole belly was swallen and I couldn't even move around the house because of the pain. I cut out all dairy, red meat, spicy, caffeine, fatty, carbonated, sugary. I am doing much better now and I recommend that people with IBS-C eat wheat bread, whities cereal and veggies-as tolerated, to move things along. I just posted a sample of the things I eat and feel good. You're welcome to try them out. Here it is: http://www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=diet&Number=323241&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1
I sure hope you feel better. You can also email me, don't be shy.
P.S. I know that Ifiber bothers IBS-D, but it sure helps me, because I am IBS-C. Don't overdo it though, add little at a time.
God bless.
Tatyana.
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IBS-C since 2006. No signs of IBS now, it's been 4 yrs. Only dairy allergy now.
Edited by TATYANA (01/26/08 01:54 PM)
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Dear Tatyana,
Thank you for you speedy and thoughtful reply.
Do you find that people with IBS-C eat differently than those with IBS-D? I'm wondering if that's why I-fiber works for you. I am so frustrated at this point, I don't know what the heck to eat. I feel like throwing in the towel, getting a pizza, and see if all that food will make me have a bowel movement... 
I normally eat very healthy (ahem...despite the occassional pizza). This past week, I have cut out red meat (I only eat 1 serving a month but have decided to cut it out completely). I rarely drink carbonation--perhaps once a year. I don't eat fatty foods (except for the cheese on pizza which is once a month or so), and I watch my sugar intake except for a small square of dark chocolate. Occassionally, I will treat myself to a chocolate dessert.
Isn't Dannon Activa, although dairy, supposed to be good for the digestive system?? And what about kefir?
I also usually eat a lot of oatmeal, shredded wheat, raw veggie salads, raw fruit, beans, etc. And all I drink is water. I eat small frequent meals. That's why this is all so baffling. How can IBS be rearing its ugly head again? I changed my diet years ago!
Thank you for posting your eating plan, I will check it out...but this goes against everything I know.
Best,
Jana
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Yana,
I understand your frustration. In my case, to get better I had to completely cut out all dairy, all red meat, alcohol, all spicy and etc. Doing it once a month might flare up your symptoms. I would never allow myself to eat pizza with cheese on it or drink activia or kefir. I know that those things say they're good for dygestion, but for healthy people, not for people like us. Dairy is a horrible trigger for me! To get better, at first-no cheating allowed.
Yes, I think IBS-D eat more starchy food than IBS-C. I tried following Heather's book and eat all the white starch she recommends and I stopped pooping, period. I now eat wheat bread instead of white, wild rice instead of white and etc. Remember, no cheating at first, when you're so unstable. No cheese, no kefir, no red meat, no alcohol, no spicy... Everyone's body is different and you'll find out that certain things work for you but don't work for others and some safe things like pumpkin my bother you a lot (in my case). It takes a lot of patience and a lot of food planning, but it will get better. In my case it's so great now, that I am pain free most of my days.
Get well soon.
Tatyana.
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IBS-C since 2006. No signs of IBS now, it's been 4 yrs. Only dairy allergy now.
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The secret is to think about finding the ratio of SF to IF you need to manage your IBS symptoms. Some individuals like me need more SF than IF to manage our symptoms. Others require more IF than SF.
Most people don't get enough fiber in their food. Traditionally physicians and nutritionists have recommended IF because its role in digestion has been known for generations. The role of SF, particularly in managing function bowel diseases is only coming to light. For example, only recently it has been learned that some SF are prebiotics that can change the composition of flora in your colon producing health benefits.
Also, in the past decade changes have been made to the definition of what food constituents can be called fibers. Total fiber intake is now composed of dietary fiber (IF and SF) and functional fiber. Here is a message with more details about this change. The neat thing about functional fibers is that they tend to act like SF in your body.
Many professionals don't know about the changes to the definition of fiber or the changing understanding of role that SF and functional fibers play in the management of IBS. The next generation of health professionals will have a better understanding of how to use dietary techniques to help manage IBS symptoms.
In the meantime you have to literally follow your gut's instinct and its feedback to tell what ratio of SF to IF you need to best manage your symptoms. It will require some experimenting. Heather's books will give you lots of guidance on this matter.
I hope this helps clear up your confusion a bit. 
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Tatyana,
Thank you for being so helpful.
I was afraid Heather's white flour starches would cause me to be even more constipated than I am. What did you find from her "Eating for IBS" book helped? Or, is that book primarily for IBS-D sufferers?
Are you lactose intolerant due to IBS or just regular-person lactose intolerant? If it's the later, you can always take lactase pills or drink lactose free milk.
Best,
Jana
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This does help relieve some confusion. So it's not black and white in regards to soluble vs. insoluble fiber...but I still do not understand why Heather's book recommends white bread over whole wheat bread...and other similar recommendations...
In your experience on this BB, do people's SF:IF ratio differ based on IBS-C or IBS-D?
Yes, people in the US only get about 5-15 grams of dietary fiber per day, when the recommendation markedly higher. The thing is, I do get plenty of fiber. I will try to increase my soluble fiber portion and see what happens.
Are there article links available re. soluble fiber and bowel disease? I'd love to read them. I will read your message on functional fiber, too.
Thank you.
Jana
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Jana,
I found tons of good info in Heather's book. Only I eat more of IFiber than she recommends. I became lactose intolerant since I got ibs. Lactate doesn't help me at all and lactose free milk is ok, as long as it's low fat. But I got used to drinking soy milk and use soy milk in my cooking.
Tatyana.
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IBS-C since 2006. No signs of IBS now, it's been 4 yrs. Only dairy allergy now.
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Hi Jana,
I think Syl's post explains it very well. I believe that the reason Heather recommends going easy with IF such as whole wheat bread is that C is not the only symptom of IBS. Lots of us also have bloating, cramps, and painful swelling of out abdomen. Since IF is very rough (act like a brush in our intestines) it can actually further irritate our guts and cause even more swelling and pain. That's why for the first couple of days it's better to stick of SF foods and calm our guts down. Hopefully that way at least the pain should go away, and for D folks, the diarrhea should get better as well.
However, you really need to figure out your safe ratio of SF/IF to keep yourself regular. This is not an easy thing to do and it may take some time. I've been following this diet for a couple of months now and I'm still working on it. But at least I have less pain now, although still bloated and often constipated. Oh well, but I'm sure we can beat this IBS .
Off the topic - are you Czech by any chance? Judging by your name...
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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant
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White bread has more SF than IF while whole wheat bread has more IF than SF. Foods high in IF are known to exacerbate IBS in many individuals.
Most the articles on fiber and functional bowel diseases are published in peer reviewed research journals and not posted on the web. Below are a couple of links to the abstract of a couple of these papers. Most of the full papers are only available through subscriptions to the journals. However, if you live close to a university you may be able to find some of these journals in their library.
References
Bijkerk, C. J., et. al., 2004: Systematic review: the role of different types of fiber in the treatment of irritable bowel syndrome . Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 19, 245-251.
Francis, C. Y. and P. J. Whorwell, 1994: Bran and irritable bowel syndrome: Time for reappraisal. Lancet, 344, 39.
Story, J. A., 2003: New insights into dietary fibre. Canadian Journal of Dietetic Practice and Research, 64.
Park, J. and M. H. Floch, 2007: Prebiotics, Probiotics, and Dietary Fiber in Gastrointestinal Disease. Gastroenterology Clinics of North America
Nutrition in Gastrointestinal Illness, 36, 47-63
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STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS
The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS
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Syl, thank you for the links.
My concern about white bread is that it's so heavily processed.
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Hi Zara,
So, does one eat differently year round and that changes what they eat based on an IBS flair-up? This is confusing me, as I just don't know what to buy at the grocery store. But I guess I'll stick with soluble fiber items, and if my constipation still does not improve, I'll add more insoluble foods but not on an empty stomach...is that correct?
I have bloating, cramps, painful swelling of my abdomen as well. Last night I went back to the hospital which I'll share in another post--long story--short version: antispasmotic (never had one before) helped TREMENDOUSLY. Not entirely, but tremendously, nonetheless!!
I am hungry now after eating a bowl of oatmeal and I don't know what to go eat. :-( Perhaps I'll try a sweet potato?
Are there any rules out there for how to determine one's proper IS/sol fiber ratio? How did you start? I think once I understand how to start this, it'll be easy to do but I'm at a loss how to start and what to eat...
I'm eastern European but not Czech. :-) I like your name, too!
Jana
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Re: Jana
#323325 - 01/27/08 12:07 PM
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TATYANA
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 370
Loc: Washington, Seattle
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What country are you from? I am from Ukraine.
I heard about your trip to the hospital. I've gone to the hospital many times when my IBS was out of control and they couldn't help me. They didn't give me anything to improve my simptoms.
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IBS-C since 2006. No signs of IBS now, it's been 4 yrs. Only dairy allergy now.
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Quote:
So, does one eat differently year round and that changes what they eat based on an IBS flair-up? This is confusing me, as I just don't know what to buy at the grocery store. But I guess I'll stick with soluble fiber items, and if my constipation still does not improve, I'll add more insoluble foods but not on an empty stomach...is that correct?
You're right that you shouldn't just have IF on empty stomach but always with some SF. I wouldn't say that you eat differently all year round then when you have a flare up but during this time definitely focus more on SF foods (which you should be normally eating anyway).
I know it's very hard to make that mental switch - everyone's been telling us to eat as much IF as possible so this diet doesn't seem to make sense at first. But, the most important thing is how you feel because that's what determines "healthy". Like potatoes are "healthier" for me because they don't bother my gut, unlike a raw vegetable salad with yogurt dressing. It all comes down to how we feel.
Oh, and thanks for liking my nick, although it's not my real name 
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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant
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Hi Tatyana,
I'm from the US but I have family from Romania/Russia.
I'm sorry they couldn't help you in the hospital. :-( The antispasmatic they gave me last night helped a lot. I am on my way now to fill an rx for it to have around.
Jana (a nickname)
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Hello,
I can totally understand your frustration and confusion with trying all these things for your diet. I have been to the doctor for years, and all they said was eat more fiber. I completly switched my diet over to all green veggies, whole wheat junk, and watched all the white stuff I ate very carefully, and just got worse. Finally one of my doctors suggested this website because she said she had other patients that said it really helped. I just had a horrible week where I was very bloated, had quite a bit of painful gas, and could not go to the bathroom if my life depended on it. It was awful. So I did what they suggested, and was pretty serious about the diet for several days, and things started to move, and the bloating feeling and gas went away. But on Sunday after church I started having some problems again and this morning at work my stomach is all bloated again. It is very frustrating, and I am not sure what I did wrong with my diet, but from what I understand this is not an easy process to figure out. Stay positive, and keep trying, and I am sure that you will get stable, and your diet will work out. I tend to get cranky and irritable when my stomach is all messed up and I just want something to fix it, but I am staying strong and trying all the teas and the diet that Heather says to do. I am fairly new at this as well, and it is so hard to get out of my brain everything that people have been telling me for years, and doing the opposite.
Take care, and thanks for the inspiration by telling your story, because at least we know what we are not alone on this battle!
Pink Angel
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