Foods to Help to completely evacuate?
#296054 - 01/11/07 09:25 AM
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Hello,
Well, I have been having a BM every day , usually twice a day, but still do not feel completely emptied out. Any suggestions on what to increase in my food plan to help with this. I was thinking of trying Natural Calm?
Here is my sample food plan
A.m. 1/2 tsp acacia in water brown rice cereal (hot) with cooked peaches in it , skin on soymilk on it
noon brown rice, sweet potatoe, zuchinni, skin on (steamed well)
smoothie - pureed blueberry/mago in soymilk with UdoOil
later day - applesauce, french bread with almond butter
later day - acacia powder 1/2 tsp - applesauce, popcorn (I do well with popcorn?)
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I forgot to mention that I put some ground flax in my morning cereal. Debbie IBS-C
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Have you tried upping your SFS dose? I'd finally worked up to 2t in the am and pm and it helped. I had a set back and dropped the SFS for a few days, but I'm going back. I had MUCH better BMs on than I do off.
-------------------- IBS-C, D and nausea with acute attacks, stable on EFI for 3 years
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Good Idea - I will try that. I jus wondered if I should increase my I but I am nervous to do that as I am still not stable. Debbie
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Definitely keep increasing the acacia UNTIL you feel you are stable. That will help you reach stability. You're at a really low dose for someone with C.
Natural calm is a great option. I take it every night and rarely have that feeling of incomplete evacuation in the morning anymore.
-------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa, IBS-C (Vegan)
Stable since July 2007!
Mommy to Rhiannon Marie (Dec. 13, 2008)
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Try eating sweet potato it will really help you out.
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How big of a serving would I eat of sweet potatoes? Thanks. Debbie IBS-C
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I'm not sure how C you are, but one baked sweet potato per day should do the trick. If you're very C and nothing happens after a few days, try a little more.
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I thought sweet potatoes were sf. I'm confused as to how that would help one to evacuate. I used to think I got d from sweet potatoes and I've only had them once since on this diet (no problem). It must have been all the butter I used to put on them and I probably ate it along with a steak most of the time! Anyhow, are you talking about eating the skin of the sweet potato to make you have a better bm? Please clarify. Thanks.
-------------------- Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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No, you don't need to eat the skin of the sweet potato. The potato softens the stool and you have a better bm.
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So should I be a bit careful about eating a sweet potato on an "iffy" day as to not make the stool TOO soft or more frequent? Or should I have another sf with the meal too?
-------------------- Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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Can someone please help me with the SF/IF question of which one makes me go? If I am C then which do I try and increase? I always eat SF with each meal. Thanks, Debbie IBS-C
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I believe if I understand it correctly that IF is what makes you have your bms. The SF helps to bulk up your stool and provide a "base" so that the IF is not so harsh on your system if that makes any sense. Yes, you should be eating SF/IF at each meal and the ratio depends on the person (and I have found for me that it depends on the day). This thread had just confused me too though b/c of the sweet potato thing...not sure myself. Maybe someone can clarify.
-------------------- Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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Line, that is correct, IF makes you go and SF stops it from killing you This is how I understand the rest.
Sweet potatoes are supposed to have more SF than regular ones, right. That means that they have less starch. Starch constipates usually. For example, if you ahve diarhea, you are recommended to stick to a diet of only potatoes (regular, or white rice) and rice milk (also constipating) for awhile. I don't think the SF in the sweet potato will help you evacuate, but it would help C by giving you some food that looks like/feels starch, but is not and that helps your stool become softer and more prone to get out.
If you eat sweet potatoes that just gives you more of a chance to eat some healthy IF (because they contain more SF) which would in turn help you go.
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Trust me, the sweet potato will help her go. I'm an A so I get pretty C sometimes. When I eat a whole sweet potato for a couple of days, it really helps me go...and no D with it.
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This is taken directly from Heather's explanation of Soluble Fiber:
Why is soluble fiber so special? Because unlike any other food category, it soothes and regulates the digestive tract, stabilizes the intestinal contractions resulting from the gastrocolic reflex, and normalizes bowel function from either extreme. That's right – soluble fiber prevents and relieves BOTH diarrhea and constipation . Nothing else in the world will do this for you.
How is this possible? The "soluble" in soluble fiber means that it dissolves in water (though it is not digested). This allows it to absorb excess liquid in the colon, preventing diarrhea by forming a thick gel and adding a great deal of bulk as it passes intact through the gut. This gel (as opposed to a watery liquid) also keeps the GI muscles stretched gently around a full colon, giving those muscles something to easily "grip" during peristaltic contractions, thus preventing the rapid transit time and explosive bowel movements of diarrhea as well.
By the same token, the full gel-filled colon (as opposed to a colon tightly clenched around dry, hard, impacted stools) provides the same "grip" during the muscle waves of constipation sufferers, allowing for an easier and faster transit time, and the passage of the thick wet gel also effectively relieves constipation by softening and pushing through impacted fecal matter. If you can mentally picture your colon as a tube that is squeezing through matter via regular waves of contractions, it's easy to see how a colon filled with soluble fiber gel is beneficial for both sides of the IBS coin.
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Have you tried papaya?
I have found that it really helps me out. I had that incomplete evacuation feeling for a while as well as the feeling to push something out all the time.
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Quote:
Starch constipates usually. For example, if you ahve diarhea, you are recommended to stick to a diet of only potatoes (regular, or white rice) and rice milk (also constipating) for awhile.
Rice milk causes constipation?! I am literally just about to switch to using rice milk instead of dairy but now I am confused and scared! My main symptoms are severe constipation and bloating...so should I avoid rice milk in this case? Eeek!
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Don't be confused and scared. Check my post below about Heather's explanation of soluble fibre.
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Quote:
Why is soluble fiber so special? Because unlike any other food category, it soothes and regulates the digestive tract, stabilizes the intestinal contractions resulting from the gastrocolic reflex, and normalizes bowel function from either extreme. That's right – soluble fiber prevents and relieves BOTH diarrhea and constipation . Nothing else in the world will do this for you.
But if soluble fiber relieves diarrhea AND constipation, why is rice milk constipating?? I'm sorry, I'm still dreadfully confused
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Rice milk constipates as do the other starches? Okay, I am totally confused? How can eating SF help IBS-C then? I was just switching to rice milk as testing if soy does not agree with me? Debbie IBS-C
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T
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Yes, rice milk constipates. In Eastern Europe it is given to people suffering from diarhea and is usually very helpful. I find it constipating too (but I am a C, so that doesn't say much).
Rice milk doesn't cause bloating, though, at least I have never experienced that. But I'd not take it if I were you, since you are a C too. Did you try almond milk? Much better choice in my opinion.
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Maybe the rice milk does not constipate but dropping the dairy just helps the D to stop. Debbie IBS-C
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Rice is from the soluble fibre category, but it is not constipating.
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From her book and website:
http://www.helpforibs.com/messageboards/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=diet&Number=296316&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1
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No, I don't know if it constipates particularly because it is made of rice, which is mainly starch. I think it's too watery to fall in that category. I am not familiar with the particular mechanism rice milk causes constipation, but it is pretty effective.
When I was a little kid, and had diarhea (say after eating something bad, or just catching a cold or something), my mom would boil rice and give me the water it boiled in to drink (she'd overboil it, of course). That's not the same as rice milk (it doesn't have all the added oil and the rest of the stuff they add). But I find both things very effective in treating diarhea.
I used to drink rice milk initially when I was diagnosed with IBS (and thought milk was a trigger for me, and was following the EFI diet to the T and discovered I couldn't stand the taste of soy milk) and my constipation worsened very much. Of course I was also on the BTC diet for awhile and that's was affecting my constipation a lot too. It was soothing, but my body didn't want to go at all.
I had to start taking a prescription laxative (Miralax) to normalize the situation of not going for weeks at a time and having to take dulcolax on some weekends (that was terrible).
So, I stopped the rice milk (didn't really like the taste anyway) and switched to almond milk and hazelnut milk (mmm, taste nice, although not like dairy milk) and had some improvement. Not a total improvement, don't get me wrong, I am not blaming my C on the rice milk. It was contributing though.
Anyway, judging from the bloating some people on this board have, my case of bloating is only a mild one. I don't know if rice milk would cause it or not, because I always feel bloated when I am constipated (but always to a small degree, it hardly shows, I don't have to wear much larger clothing and all that...) Thus I have no personal experience to contribute to whether rice milk would worsen your bloating, it might worsen your constipation though (as it did for me).
You might just have to give it a try and see for yourself. I don't know how many C-ers on this board use rice milk, but that might be a useful statistic.
About SF -- no, I don't think anyone meant SF constipates. It SOOTHES the gut, increases the amount of stuff in your bowel, thus it might even help evacuate (provided it is taken with a lot of water so that it can bulk up your stool), although I don't think it would be the driving factor. What SF does is it ALOWS you to have some IF.
So, say you need a ratio of SF to IF of at least 1:1 to not be in pain. That's just an example. Now, you have a completely safe meal that also contains 3 grams of SF. With that meal, you can safely have up to 3 grams of IF. If you didn't have the SF then you would not be able to eat the IF without painful consequences. Now, that you had the IF, though, it will work to make you go. The SF will help you not be in pain because of the IF.
Say you only had the 3 grams of SF and no IF. Then, if you had much water with the meal (or during the day) the SF would swell in your gut. It would make your stool be larger in volume and your gut will want to get rid of it at a point. Not as soon as it would get it out with the 3 grams of IF, but still sooner than it would had you not eaten the SF.
For C, many C-ers on this board find Natural Calm very effective. I found a generic version in the local Duane Reade farmacy, Magnesium citrate it's called, and it's also very effective (if you are not up to ordering natural calm online and spending a lot of money on it... the generic version is cheaper. Let me know if you take that, though, to tell you the dosage you're supposed to take it in). Sometimes, you need to take something like natural calm, while you are on the BTC diet, just so your gut can calm down and you would still be able to go. That's what I had to do (I had to take the prescription thing, but switched to the generic Mag Citrate) and I am stable now, thanks to Heather's diet (which calmed my gut down and educated me on how to eat).
That is my experience. I hope it can be helpful.
--J
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Message boards can be a little dangerous because sometimes there is inaccurate information in it. Read Heather's website and/or book for the answers. Soluble fibre helps both C and D. It is NOT constipating. If you are C though, you do need to add more IF to your diet than D's do.
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Yes it is in the SF category. It does constipate, though, as per my GI doctor. All starches do, she has told me a couple of times, although they do feel good (don't cause painful cramps). Also, we IBS-ers can't really eat fatty things, so we are left with the starches. We can't otherwise but eat them (or starve).
That's why you have to also eat some IF with the SF/starchy foods Not just because of the vitamins, but also to have a normal BM schedule.
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I amnot saying SF is constipating, but I am saying starch is.
Rice and potatoes are NOT purely SF. They contain SF, but they are not purely SF. Heather sais SF does not actually contain calories, but we know that rice and potatoes do, so where do the calories come from? From the starch.
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I know rice and potatoes are not purely SF. I'm not going to bother responding to this thread anymore. People want advice, you give correct advice, now it's up to them if they want to follow it or not. If they think sweet potatoes are constipating then that's their opinion, but they might be missing out on something that can really help them out in their situation.
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I'm so sorry everyone, I feel like I caused all this confusion when I asked about the rice milk. It's just that I'm at the point where I'm still trying to learn what's best for me and I am finding all the information very hard to take in and understand. The last thing I want is to cause any arguments here. I know a lot of you have figured out what you can and can't eat and it might be frustrating for new ones like me who ask 'dumb' questions, but I think I can say on behalf of us all that we REALLY appreciate all your advice and support. Please don't give up on us!
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I also say thank you to everyone - I am so confused at this point as to what I can eat that it gives me anxiety - I have no idea what is doing what - thank you for answering posts. Debbie IBS-C My main symptom is trapped bloating - never give off gas just feels like it is there.
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Sorry all. I didn't mean to contradict or question the SF/IF thing. I've read all Heather's stuff and I thought I had the whole concept down. I was just wondering about the sweet potato being suggested as helpful to help move things along when I was thinking of it as SF. This is also b/c of my own personal experience with sweet potatoes in the past as I had mentioned. I like the explanation of how if you only eat SF, the gel will swell and you drink water and eventually it will come out but the IF will help it come out sooner. I think this is happening to me lately. I keep feeling like I have to go and then I'm having multiple BMs (and I did just increase my Acacia). So maybe if I eat more IF at the get-go, I'll have a quicker more complete bm and won't have that lingering feeling. Oh..trial and error for all of us!
-------------------- Originally IBS-D for a million years!
Then IBS-A, Now a transformed slightly C
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Quote:
I also say thank you to everyone - I am so confused at this point as to what I can eat that it gives me anxiety - I have no idea what is doing what - thank you for answering posts. Debbie IBS-C My main symptom is trapped bloating - never give off gas just feels like it is there.
I have exactly the same symptoms! Plus the anxiety! The bloating I find just so upsetting, and I still don't know what's causing it. Feelinggood, do you drink cow's milk? As I said earlier in this thread, I was planning on switching to rice milk instead of cow's milk to see if that helped my C and bloating, but when this thing about rice milk causeing constipation came up, I was just so confused. I didn't realise a drink could make you constipated!! Eeek!
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Hello, I have not had dairy for at least 8 years. I do drink rice milk and soy milk (although I have eliminated soy over the last two days along with HFructose fruits) I will post what my results with it are. I am very confused about my diet. Debbie IBS
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I also think that I need to add in some live bacteria - I used to eat fermented keifer from soymilk for years and it helped my C very much. I just cannot seem to find it anymore and not sure how to make it. My next option is soy yogurt but it has added sugar and like I say I am trying to eliminate soy and see what the result is. Debbie
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It is normal to be confused. It almost seems like NOTHING is a safe food at a point. And feels like that too...
The thing is, all foods pass through our digestive system. Thus they may all be potentially harmful. However, knowing WHAT they are good for and what they might harm is crucial to managing your symptoms.
So...
- Fat is a no-no. It hurts too much.
- IF without enough SF is a no-no (whole wheat bread, bran, raw vegetables such as lettuce, peel from fruit)
- SF is good for us. Not only does it help the food pass through the colon less problematically, not only does it reduce the cramping and pain, but it also allows you to eat some IF.
- IF is the primary thing that makes you go. That is why it is so dangerous in large quantities (or without SF or both), because it causes the bowel to contract and that hurts. It also causes bloating and gas, I have read, but I am not certain whether this effect is just temporary (until your body gets used to the new amt of IF or not). However, causing the bowel to contract and having a sool softened and bulked up by SF in it doesn't hurt (well, depends on the quantities of SF and IF, but if you figure out your ratio, it won't hurt) AND it makes sure you are not constipated.
That is what you are aiming at.
Eat the foods that are easiest on your tummy, so that you are pain free. To be bloating/gass/constipation free, you need to get IF. To get IF, you need SF. To figure out in what proportion, trial and error.
Fat is dangerous. Starch constipates a little, but since you are not left with much, you have to eat it. If you take SF and IF with the starch, you'll be fine in terms of constipation.
To give you an idea on how to figure out your SF:IF ratio, you might already know a lot. Do you eat oatmeal in the morning? Oatmeal has a 50:50 ratio. If you are fine with oatmeal, then 50:50 is OK for you, which, I think is pretty good. I am OK with oatmeal in the morning and I am a C. What you can tolerate on an empty stomach is usually the best way to tell, because food you eat later in the day is affected by the food you ate in the morning.
Other than that, to relieve that anxiety, get Natural Calm or mag citrate. I had a lot of anxiety before, like not going for weeks was really getting at me (I thought, oh, no, now I won't be able to go even if my body wants to). But taking a laxative takes care of it. Mag citrate is super mild and natural and it does not hurt you at all (it is actually very good for you) like most of those prescription things do. I didn't know about that so I had to take Miralax. Use the knowledge you have, use the good stuff. And don't fear you will have to take it forever and ever -- I don't need it any more. My system just needed a break so it could stabilize.
Let me know if you are still confused. I have to go now, but will try to be here in the evening.
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There doesn't seem to be much choice for dairy alternatives where I live (not sure if that's true for the whole of the UK). I went out and bought some oat milk today so I might try that...but again I think it can't be heated up so I can't use it to make my hot chocolate or my porridge (my two most favourite things!)
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Jenifer, please read the last post I wrote in reply to feelinggood. I hope that helps you guys, and please let me know if something is still confusing.
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Why do you think it can't be heated up? I have drank oat milk heated up without problems... other than the terrible taste, lol
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Quote:
Why do you think it can't be heated up? I have drank oat milk heated up without problems... other than the terrible taste, lol
Oh really? I don't know where I got that from then! It said something on the box about the milk separating if it gets heated...? Can soy milk be heated too then?? *hope, hope*
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Soymilk can be heated with no problem - I have made numerous cooked pudding with it as well as sauces. Debbie IBS
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Oh, ok, well that makes things easier! I think my mind is so filled with duff info that I must just make up!
So, if I am going to stop using cow's milk in my hot drinks and porridge, what would you recommend to use? I have soy milk, oat milk and rice milk as my options at the moment...although still concerned on the rice milk constipation thing (sorry to mention it again!!)
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Thank you Jeio - good point re: oatmeal 50/50. That gives me a good base point to start from. Now just to figure out soymilk tolerance and HF fruit tolerance. I also have difficulty getting enough protein as I am vegetarian so no fish or chicken. I may have to add fish in but first I am going to try chickpeas and some beans? The problem is that fish or chicken just simply turn my stomach and I cannot even force myself to eat them. Thank you for your patience and help. Debbie IBS
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Personally I would alternate with all of them - as long as you can tolerate each one. Soymilk does do a nice job with hot choc. and it is nice and creamy for porridge but I tend to think on the rotation basis - I alternate rice and soy but like I mentioned I am eliminating soy to see if it stops the bloat-Debbie IBS
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Yes, I'll alternate and see which suits me best. Thank you for your suggestion.
And thank you to Jeio aswell for all the information you posted above. It's become my new years resolution to finally learn to understand my IBS as I am so sick of being down and anxious about it. So I am very grateful for all the help you are giving me along the way.
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About the milks... I was a dairy junkie before I got IBS. I eat much less dairy right now (after I first went through a phase where I completely avoided all dairy products including rice/soy cheese and things with minute traces of dairy, but went stable, tried dairy and found what I can tolerate). So, it was super hard to switch to a dairy alternative initially. Expect this. Those milk substitutes just don't taste like milk at all. I think rice milk is the most similar, almond milk is the least bad tasting...
I found having oatmeal with water was a much tastier and better alternative than spending tons of money on dairy substitutes that don't taste like milk.
So, consider using water for awhile. If you don't like a dairy alternative, don't despair, there are others out there, and most of them dont taste good to the dairy junkie...
But do avoid dairy for awhile, no matter how hard it is and how much worse it tastes, it is so worth it to religeously stick to Heather's diet. Life is not all about food and being healthy and pain free is more important than having your morning oatmeal with dairy milk for awhile (that's my case, convert it to porridge and whatever else you eat with milk).
P.S. Forgot to say: if you are going to take Natural Calm or Mag Citrate or some other laxative, rice milk shouldn't be so much of an issue. If you are not considering taking those, however, I wouldn't drink rice milk.
Edited by Jeio (01/14/07 03:46 PM)
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I think K2 was taking a probiotic called Bio K+ (do a search on the board with "probiotic" or "Bio K") and was praising it alot. She also said it was expensive, but she liked it/the effects of it/ very much.
I haven't personally tried probiotics or kefir, so can't speak from personal experience.
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I just bought some non dairy BIO k but am nervous to try it as it has mango flavour in it and I am trying to do low fructose right now? Debbie IBS-C
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Is it just a flavor? If so, is it natural or synthetic? Does it list mango juice in the ingredients?
My guess is the mango part is so minute it wouldn't be a problem, it is only used as a FLAVOR.
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Very true - just for flavour.
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