What do you think? Please read *revised*
#134934 - 01/04/05 11:55 AM
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I read this on a website. Even though I am vegetarian/vegan, I am in no way pushing it on you guys. I just want to know what you guys think about his opinion that meat causes stomach disorders? Is it possible?
Although I DO NOT follow the Hallelujah Acres Diet, I do think some of it makes sense as it is just a return to more healthy, back to nature eating. It cuts out processed food that we all know is garbage! 
Tina
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Written by: Rev. George H. Malkmus of the Hallelujah Acres Diet http://www.hacres.com/diet3.asp
"The alimentary canal of humans is about 30 feet in
length, or approximately 5 to 6 times body length, and is
corrugated for the specific purpose of retaining food long
enough for all nutrients to be extracted. This is the very
worst possible condition for the digestion and processing
of flesh foods. The digestive system of man was designed by
God to move food through this lengthy digestive tract by
means of FIBER! Animal flesh contains NO FIBER! Because
there is no FIBER in animal flesh, animal flesh moves very
slowly through the human digestive tract, in a very warm
and moist environment of 98.6 degrees. This slow movement
of the animal flesh, in this very warm environment, causes
the flesh to PUTREFY. This PUTREFACTION is what causes body
odor, strong smelling stools, and because there is no FIBER
to move the PUTREFIED FLESH along rapidly, causes
constipation.
"This FIBERLESS, PUTREFIED FLESH, moving ever so slowly
through this very warm human digestive tract, becomes the
primary cause of all colon problems – including Crohn's
Disease, Colitis, Ulcerative Colitis, Diverticulitis,
Diverticulosis, Irritable Bowl Syndrome (IBS), Colon
Cancer, and more. If animal flesh foods were eliminated
from man's diet, we could practically eliminate all
digestive and colon problems, including acid stomach
problems and gout, which are caused by the highly acidic
nature of animal foods. If humans stopped consuming animal
flesh, these digestive and colon problems would cease, as
would all the surgeries, radiation, and drugs used by the
medical community in an effort to subdue the symptoms
caused by the consuming of animal flesh."
Edited by Sara-Sage (01/04/05 12:41 PM)
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Ummmm....
Although this is based partially on fact, I think the author is taking it ALITTLE too far and warping facts and ideas to make his/her opinion seem vaild.
It is people like these that makes the general public afraid of vegetarians and vegans!
I would not agree with eating flesh causing IBS, Chrohn's, and cancers, but I do believe it contributes. I have also read before that so many (forget the number) pounds of meat sits rotting in your colon before it is passed. YUCK, glad I don't eat it anymore!
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-Sheri
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I'm a meat eater and that does sound gross.
I haven't read up enough on it to go into a pros and cons of meat eating -v- vegetarianism or veganism.
However, given that we have vegetarians and vegans on the boards (like you Tina!) I think that the view is probably over simplistic...But I am not a nutritionist or a biologist etc....
Just my view...
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S.
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Ya, you're right.
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Yes, it's written by Rev. George H. Malkmus of the Hallelujah Acres Diet. Although I am not religious AT ALL, I believe what he thinks about returning to eating in a more natural way.
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Tina - where the heck did you find this quote?!?
Talk about biased opinions! To be more scientifically corrent, one only need look as far as the human mouth to decipher that, yes indeed, God intended for humans to eat meat! We have canine teeth allong with our molers - canine teeth are meant specifically for tearing meet - animals that are purely herbivores do not have canine teeth. Since humans have more molers than we do canines, one could also deduce that perhaps the ballance of veggies and grains (non-meat products) should be greater than that of meat. Also, it's been scientifically proven that most vegetarian and nearly all vegan diets are deficient in B12 if not artificially supplemented. I have asked my GI doc about a vegetarian diet and he's against it - and he's a GOOD doctor. He says the other steps I've taken to improve my diet (like less insoluables and elimination of trigger foods) is fine, but eliminating meat altogether would make me more susceptible to deficiencies in Iron, B12 and protein - since my CD meds already make me folic acid deficient I don't need any more holes in my nutrient balance.
On the other hand, I know several people on the boards are vegetarians and I'm not writing this to say you should change any habits that are currently working for you. I realize this decision has lots to do with moral convictions and personal background allong with any nutritional anaysis - but there are more impartial studies out there that would give more creedance, and better advice, to any arguments on this topic.
Yes, it's true that meat moves through the digestive tract more slowly, but that's why God gave us livers to break these things down! Besides, I, for one, would like it if my digestive system were to slow down a bit!!!
Okay - I've made myself clear on this - vegetarianism = fine, having unsound science as your basis for vegitarianism = misguided, biased!
Min
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Thanks Min. 
See, people can post whatever they want and make it sounds like it's fact! You seem to know a bit about this.
It's not meant at all as a ploy to get anyone to become a vegeterian...NO WAY...we all have our own minds to make our own decisions. 
I just wanted to get some feedback because this quote blew me away! 
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Check this out:
"Quackwatch" debunks the hallelujah acres diet
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WOW!
#134957 - 01/04/05 12:55 PM
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Thanks so much Paula. That is a great read. I printed it out and will the rest after work.
I guess you can't belive what people say, huh!
Thanks again.
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Kind of funny that he says God didn't intend for us to eat flesh -- as a Christian he should be familiar with all the fish-eating in the Bible. Doesn't anyone remember the story about Jesus feeding 5,000 men plus women and children with 5 loaves of bread and some FISH?
Anyway I think the whole article is just a bit silly. I'm not a vegetarian but I do fast from animal products for more than half the year (following my church calendar) and I never notice any difference when I cut out animal products completely as opposed to sticking to Heather's diet of non-red meat and fish.
Just my two cents 
Panda
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Amanda
I live in the Big Apple, but I don't eat the skin
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Hey Tina
#134962 - 01/04/05 01:04 PM
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Augie
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 5807
Loc: Illinois
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Whenever you have time, could you give me some sample daily menus of what you eat being a vegan? I am interested in this very much.
Can you eat chicken, or fish or eggs? Probably no turkey either.
I don't understand what you can eat and be on the IBS diet since I think of vegetarianism as lots of veggies and fruits which are hard on us.
And soy is difficult too, gassy. Or can you handle tofu and soy okay?
You can email if you want or post here. I would really be interested.
Thanks for sharing your article with us. It always helps to read alternative info that may or may not be true. It was thoughtful of you to want to help us! I'll have to read what Paula posted. Didn't see if was postitive or negative to what the info in your post cited.
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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Paula's link was basically stating that the H.A. Diet is a hoax! I'm not too surprised. I didn't follow it as it was composed of a lot of raw fruits and veggies. We IBS-ers cannot do that!
I can eat soy with no problems at all. But I've been a vegetarian for 12 years so my body is used to it! No, I don't eat chicken, fish or eggs.
I have met with a nutritionist to go over my diet. She gave me the stats for the vitamin/mineral requirements that I needed to find alternative non-animal sources for. I have to be honest and say that is is challenging!
For example, to get all of my calcium and B12, I need to drink three 250ml glasses of fortified soy milk every day. No problem. I make smoothies with it. Yum!
I can get iron from lots of foods: beans, tofu, tempeh, molasses, etc. http://www.scienzavegetariana.it/nutrizione/vrg/iron1.htm#table1
And protein from many of the same sources.
http://www.naturodoc.com/library/nutrition/protein.htm
B12
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/
As you might have guessed, I would LOVE to become a nutritionist and specilaize in vegetarianism.
Ask anything you'd like!
** I should also state that I get my iron levels checked every year and have yet to become deficient.
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Good point about the fish! I wonder what his take on that would be?
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I agree with Sheri, the premise is good (there is evidence that vegetarian diets are beneficial to overall health) and there is some factual information. But there is also some completely false statements that are stated as fact. I would love to give this to some of my old nutrition (biology) professors!
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You hit on one of my favorite topics! If you do a search on 'vegan' or 'vegetarian', both myself and SS has noted different things that we eat.
It IS possible to get a healthy diet while eating no animal products! I am building muscle at the gym right now (ok ok baby muscles, but it's SOMETHING) and am requiring alittle more protein than normal. Allthough it is a little toough getting it all, on days I run short I have an excellent (but yucky tasting) protein powder (soy) and that makes up the difference. But for someone that is not building muscle, I don't believe you need that much, just as long as you have a source of it at every meal. Beans, lentils, PB, tempeh, tofu not so much, and Boca Burgers are all great choices.
That protein all adds up, you would be suprised what foods it sneaks into! Even the pretzels I eat has 3 grams a serving!
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-Sheri
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I cannot handle lentils or beans at all (I don't think), and I'm not sure about soy! Yipes, even the protein powder is soy. What brand do you get? These are all very gassy foods. And I had a bad bad attack the one time I tried lentils and have been scared of them every since. Never gave them or beans a second try. Don't know what tempeh is! And isn't PB a trigger food because of high fat? How much is safe at one time?
Plus since I am gluten free, can't do boca burgers or pretzels  I'll have to check out both yours and Tina's past posts. Are they in the Recipe board? Is that where I would limit the search to or do a search for all forums.
Thanks Sheri and Tina! But this doesn't look good for me
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~ Beth
Constipation, pain prodominent,cramps, spasms and bloat!
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You know- to tell you the truth, I've been a vegetarian for thirteen years or so and I've never really worried about vitamins/minerals. I don't take a suppliment (keep forgetting to), and I don't worry about it, but I eat healthy and I've never had any deficiencies. I have an extremely high iron count- which suprised my doctor. From a nutritional standpoint, being a vegetarian has only been good- my family suffers from high cholesteral, both my dad and sister are on drugs for it, and though mine is borderline, it's never crossed into bad because I don't eat much saturated fat at all. Of course some people don't get the right vitamins at all who are vegetarians- I call those "Dorito Vegetarians," there's plenty of junk food that's vegetarian! But that's true for meat eaters as well. Just depends on what you eat within either group!
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Hi all -
To the vegetarians and vegans or anyone who saw my post on this and perhaps thought that my arguments were an attack on your decisions to maintain a vegetarian diet I wanted to make sure this wasn't taken the wrong way. My mom was a vegeterian for years and I have lots of freinds who are too and who do manage to stay healthy with it - but as Tina said, it does take some supplementing for most people - and if you're like me, and like some others with tummies like us, and can't handle the beans and the soy, than suddenly vegetarianism would become a rather unhealthy prospect. Besides - I just don't know how I'd get on without cooking chicken every other night! I guess it's just kind of like the low carb diets, which, if done in the right manner for the right amounts of time can be healthy for some people, but for some of us would cause lots of problems. So, good luck to any who try a vegetarian diet or any new thing, but whichever diet you choose, make sure it's healthy for you!
I've got to get out of my office now, so hope everyone has a pleasant evening and I'll be back on the boards tomorrow!
Min
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Mindy- by the way, that's not accurate about canine teeth being for meat and herbavores not having them. There are actually herbavores that have canine teeth, for example Koala bears  But anyway, yes people are able to eat meat, that doesn't mean "god intended" us to. We're able to do a lot of things, doesn't mean we're supposed to(technicly we're able to drink our own pee..doesn't mean we're meant to)! I know you didn't mean that in an attacking way, I just wanted to give another point of view on that. Yes, vegetarians/vegans do need to supplement with B12, but I don't consider it artificial...B12 is made from bacteria, and the way meat gets B12 in it is from the animals eating the bacteria. So we're just cutting out the middle man. Fortunatly, as long as veg. people remember to take a multivitamin or B12 supplement, and/or eat fortified foods, it's not a problem. I've never had an iron problem since going vegetarian, I always get more then 100%. Also, I think many people forget that TONS of foods are supplemented, so it's not like vegetarians are the only ones that do, most people do. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say!
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IBS-C
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hey! I don't agree meat eating is the 'cause' of digestive disorders...its way more complex then that. and I was a vegie for 12 years and am almost vegan now...so am not a biased meat eater! whilst saying that I am totally of the opinion that meat should be the smallest part of the human diet, and it should be eaten WITH fibre so that it is pushed along that way, as opposed to being eaten by itself. and meats like sausages and burgers are AWFUL for human health! but chicken breast etc, or a few fine cuts of red meat are fine. my opinion!
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Feel the fear and do it anyway!
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Ya, I don't think it's the cause of stomach problems either. I've been a vegetarian for 12 years so if that thepry was correct I wouldn't have IBS!
I just wanted to throw it 'out there' to get your opinions.
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Min!
#135229 - 01/05/05 09:24 AM
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Sheri01
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 1731
Loc: New Jersey
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We all understood! Well, atleast I did and I am sure that Tina and jenny did too. You are right, it is all about what is healthy for YOU. Like my little bro that I am trying to get in shape. I know that he would never ever ever become vegetarian, but I need to get him on a healthy diet. So, I am gonna do my best to help him pick out healthier meats, cheeses, and milks, and even help him prepare them if I need to. Because my love for my brother and the desire for his health outweigh getting into an endless battle with him for my love of being a veggie. So, I guess in the end, even though I don't encourage it, I do condone healthier animal products.
The funny thing is about the fight between ominovores/herbivores is that there seems to be no right and wrong answer. FOr every valid arguement that either a meat eater or a vegetarian has, there is an equal argument on the other side.
So, I guess alot comes down to opinion.
But, this article is ridiculous, and I can understand why you were upset about it, I was too. Most people would be.
No hard feelings, and it was nice to hear your intelligent comments. Alot of people try to argue these things without the right ammo. What you said helped to bring things into perspective for me.
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-Sheri
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-Sheri
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Oh ya, I'm not at all offended about anything either!
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Nope- I was just replying to the need for a suppliment thing. I've read that people over vitamin themselves, so I just wanted to say it's not always neccessary.
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