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Advice for gaining weight?
      #173484 - 04/25/05 12:11 PM
Ghost

Reged: 04/24/05
Posts: 20


Dear all,

I am a recently "realized" IBS sufferer who has been having serious back-and-forth symptoms for about 3 months now, though my problems go way back. I am also a vegan who was extremely underweight before this recent period of problems, and my weight has only gone down more since then.

So, I was wondering if anyone might have a few tips they could offer for me for trying to put weight back on. Just more about my diet prefs, grains are always my "safest" foods, though I try to stay under 10 servings; when I cut back further I lost weight quickly. i also try to get between 4-6 servings each of fruit and vegetables a day (more so the former), and my protein is from soy mostly (though I have issues with some of it) and nut butter or sometimes nuts. I am a 26 yr-old male who is moderately active. Umm, I think that is enough.

Thank you!

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173512 - 04/25/05 01:01 PM
Phil-AZ

Reged: 04/16/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Sunny AZ

Hi Ghost, I was a vegan for 17 years, and lost a lot of weight. In fact, I really attribute much of my IBS to getting way out of balance on a vegan diet. During my Vegan years, I ate way too much fruit, and now realize that I developed a Fructose malabsorption that causes D every time I eat it now.

Anyway, I got down to a weight of 102lbs at my lowest point, at a height of 5'8", and almost said good bye to this world. It has been a long road back, but 40 lbs heavier, and all muscle, with around 8 percent bodyfat, I feel that I have reached a very good place, in terms of weight.

I have to say, that had I not given up my Vegan diet, I probably would not have made it. I first added in some eggs, and then some chicken, fish and turkey. I currently eat only about 6-8 oz of animal protein per day (mostly chicken and turkey) but it has made a huge difference in my life.

You can read a lot about people who have had trouble on Vegan diets at Beyond Veg.

Let me know if you need any more info, I would really like to help in any way I can, since I have been through the same thing that you are going through. I would definately cut back on the fruit, or maybe even eliminate it while you stabilize.

--------------------
Phil

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173513 - 04/25/05 01:01 PM
melitami

Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 1213
Loc: Ewing, NJ, USA (IBS-D, Vegetarian)

Hi! I see you're in Charlottesville, I'm originally from Richmond!

I'm a vegetarian (almost a vegan, I still do egg whites and honey) on this diet, and I totally understand the being underweight thing! Do you have Heather's Eating For IBS book? In there, there are some tasty quick bread recipes as well as hear on the message boards which are safe and packed with calories (quick breads are breads you can just mix the ingredients and bake, you don't have to worry about rising and kneading and such). Also, potatoes are safe and a good way to safely pack in calories. Put safe condiments on stuff, like rice cheese (since you said you may have problems with soy, I can't do soy, so I use rice cheese and milk, I even saw rice cream cheese at Whole Foods last week, haven't tried it yet though) or tomato sauce if you can handle it. Safe condiments add calories and taste! Good luck!

--------------------
Melissa
Friendship is thicker than blood. ~Rent

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173729 - 04/26/05 05:14 AM
Ghost

Reged: 04/24/05
Posts: 20


Dear Phil,

Wow, your story sounds eerily familiar. I have been a vegan for about 6 years now, and it is even harder for me because I eat only whole/natural foods, and only organic. I suppose that this narrowness makes it harder on my IBS (or causes it???) especially when it comes to trying to find things that are higher in calories. I am about 5'10" and am hovering around 122 or so right now and fighting like mad to get between 2300-2400 cals a day, after years of being quite underweight. Not a good recipe for putting weight on.

I know that there is no way I could go back to eating meats of any kind, and I am really averse to even picking up the ovo-lacto again. Call me stubborn, but it feels extremely important for me...as long as I am in this world. I think there are options for vegans nowadays that were not around even when I started, but opening up to some of them (and paying for them) is tough!

I can also hear you on the fruit thing. I have been at around 6 servings a day, almost entirely dried fruit or juice, and now if I even look at juice I get an upset stomach; I actually added in bananas recently to try to get more fresh, but I am so sensitive to sweets anyway that almost all of it bothers me. I would love to eliminate it, but the calories seem crucial and are packed in fruit...catch-22. The problem with relying on veggies, of course, is the LOW calories. I am trying to work in more proteins, which I know I need, and which is tricky because beans are such a fiber killer. Oi. :-P

Anyway, not to ramble on with this. Thank you for your reply. It is nice to know that someone else has some experience with this same issue. And I would love any more info you might feel worth sharing. THANK YOU.

Be well.
-Justin

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173742 - 04/26/05 06:30 AM
Phil-AZ

Reged: 04/16/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Sunny AZ

Justin, I really empathize with your situation. If there was any way I could be a Vegan again, I would, because the principals are close to my heart. There is a small bit of hope, in the back of my mind, that some day I will figure it out and be able to return. In the mean time, I give thanks for every animal that gives its life for me, so that I may live. I eat only organic, and free range, to put the purest possible in my body, and cause the least amount of pain for the animals.

Anyway, lets see what we can come up with given your parameters. There are basically three ways to get calories into your body. Proteins, Carbs, and Fats. You need to work to increase which ever one is the easiest on your digestive system. If the Fruits are causing you trouble, as they did me, you will probably need to increase your nut intake. Of course these can be very problematic to IBS'rs because of the fat trigger. Experiment with various nut butters to see if you can find one that doesn't trigger your IBS.

When dealing with grains, because you are getting so much fiber from other sources, you might want to try sticking to refined grains. I know that sounds contrary to health recomendations, but the insoluble fiber in whole grains can be irritating. Personally, I eat a lot of Lundberg organic white rice. Try the Sushi Rice, it is very sticky and filling, as well as soothing to your intestines. I also have a gluten intolerance, so I stay strictly with rice, and eat no other grains, but you may not need to do this.

Beans are tough. I don't know what to recomend for you there
I would say that you might want to stick with broken down forms, such as Tempeh, and Miso, but of course you need to be careful about eating too much Soy due to the Estrogenic, effects. Unfortunately, it is not just the amount of protein, but the type of protein that seems to have an effect. Some things to watch for, that indicates that you are needing an animal source, is an excessive hunger. Feeling like you have to stuff your self until you are bloated, and then you still don't feel satisfied. Uncontrollable cravings, and tendancy to overeat. This is something that rarely happens to me any more, in fact I find that I can eat very little food to maintain my weight, because I have balanced my diet. Before, I would eat pounds, and pounds of Fruits, Vegetables, Grains, Nuts, Potatoes (I was a big potato eater) and no matter how much food I stuffed in myself, I continued to get thinner. Anyway, I hope you can find a combination that works for you.

One other approach you might consider, is to try various supplements. Protein powders that are enzymatically digested. If you can handle whey protein, that might be an acceptable compromise to you. I know you wouldn't be Vegan any more, but perhaps dairy might work OK for you. I can't take dairy in any form, but perhaps you can. I don't know about you living circumstances, but if you can, why not buy a Goat? Milk it yourself, take care of it, and love it as a pet That might be a way to get some nourishing animal energy in you that wouldn't be harmful to the animals.

At any rate, I hope you find what works for you. I feel your pain

--------------------
Phil

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173818 - 04/26/05 10:09 AM
Ghost

Reged: 04/24/05
Posts: 20


Dear Phil,

First off, let me just say WOW with a helping of THANK YOU for the detail you went into. I am more grateful than you can imagine. Even after years of seeing a nutritionist and doing my own hefty nutrition research, I still often feel like I have no luck with these things--esp. when the IBS-A kicks in and stirs the soup like a madman.

Let me respond to your points separately, below:

* ... If the Fruits are causing you trouble, as they did me, you will probably need to increase your nut intake.
- Phil, your fruit comment hit home like a bolt of lightning after I read it this morning. I always notice with fruits that the sweetness can be too much to handle: juices, even diluted 50% or more, can cause serious gas and bloating; dried fruits, even soaked and cooked, do the same and seem to cause energy plummets soon after eating. In addition, I can sort of see how recent symptoms (excess thirst and urination, etc.) might be due to an over-consumption and/or sensitivity to the fructose/sugar in my body. I have relied on nuts in the past, up to as much as 3 oz. worth in a day at my highest, but have recently cut back because of the fat (I do better with them than with oil though, a drop too much of that can send me into hell for a day). I seem to do okay with peanut butter so far, depending on how I have it. In fact, thanks to your first reply, I substituted a little oat "pancake" thing and some peanut butter, along with rice milk and hemp protein powder, for juice and apricots this morning--and what a difference!


* When dealing with grains, because you are getting so much fiber from other sources, you might want to try sticking to refined grains. I know that sounds contrary to health recomendations, but the insoluble fiber in whole grains can be irritating.
- Yes, I know about this problem and the paradox of refined for "healthy"--my nutritionist made the same point before. I usually eat brown basmati rice but sometimes, esp. recently, use white basmati. I will have to look into the sushi rice. I usually stick with rice because it is definitely my favorite and safest; second to that is oats, which I use daily, also sometiemes millet. I may not have a gluten intolerance, but I have cut out sources of gluten other than iffy oats because it is difficult to digest (along with yeast).

* Beans are tough. I don't know what to recomend for you there
I would say that you might want to stick with broken down forms, such as Tempeh, and Miso, but of course you need to be careful about eating too much Soy due to the Estrogenic, effects.
- I am trying to be careful with beans and with soy. I cut way back on the soy b/c of the estrogen issue but have recently added back in soy milk, pure soy isolate powder, and tofu--for about 3-4 total servings a day. I used to use lentils a lot, but my fiber issues made me cut them out, too; I am trying to bring them back in carefully to see how I do, since they are a good source of protein and a good substitute for grain over-reliance.

* Some things to watch for, that indicates that you are needing an animal source, is an excessive hunger. Feeling like you have to stuff your self until you are bloated, and then you still don't feel satisfied. Uncontrollable cravings, and tendancy to overeat.
- Never happens. I am luck if I am hungry at all.

* One other approach you might consider, is to try various supplements. Protein powders that are enzymatically digested.
- Introducing soy protein powder into my diet a year or two ago was like a miracle. I had been having (and am still having) heart issues, osteopenia, etc., in addition to the weight problem, and the soy powder helped a lot. But now I really think that soy (milk and powder) is troublesome for me, though it might be more an issue of what I have WITH the soy (e.g., fruit with a soy shake)--have to test it out. I recently picked up some hemp protein powder, which is a living food, and tried it this morning; I have also seen rice powder, though adding yet another grain is something I am wary about.

So, I am trying to hold out on the vegan thing as long as I can. A question for you: what sort of a combination of food groups do you find most helpful? I hear so much about cutting grains way back and eating *only* vegetables and fruits, but trying to that was not a good thing for me. I was up to 12 grains a day at one point and then cut back to 5-6 at that same time. It sounds like you are probably not going all-out Atkins given your sentiments, so that is why I ask. And, I commend you for using organic and free-range animal products when you use anything; anything to decrease suffering is praiseworthy.

Thank you again, Phil, for all your time.


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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #173984 - 04/26/05 02:47 PM
Phil-AZ

Reged: 04/16/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Sunny AZ

Justin, I eat a LOT of rice. Usually three meals a day. I have rice for breakfast, and then add some Chicken or Turkey in for lunch and dinner. I eat a few vegetables, not many. I actually do best on Lettuce and Grean Beans. I eat no fruit.

One thing you could try, is to eat your fruit with raw vegetables. I know this helps some people. For example, eat a Banana with a lot of Romaine Lettuce. It helps to cut the sugar, and may help your symptoms.

It is good to keep in mind, that most of the Fruit we now have available to us is highly hybridized to increase the sugar content. Our primitive ancestors ate fruit that was much more fibrous, more like our vegetables, and it was not easy to find, and very seasonal.

Here is are some interesting links on the fruit thing:
Fructose Intolerance

IBS and Fruit Sugars
Increasing Fructose Intolerance
Fructose and Abdominal Pain

--------------------
Phil

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Re: Advice for gaining weight? new
      #174273 - 04/27/05 07:16 AM
Ghost

Reged: 04/24/05
Posts: 20


Dear Phil,

Yes, I am being careful with the fruits now and adding grains back in, cutting the former back to 3 minimum and upping the latter to 10 servings. And all hail rice! The grains may not have the best rep nowadays, but I have to get calories SOMEWHERE, and fruit is just not going to do it. Your advice about having it with other things is sound, and I usually do try to "cut" the sugar by having it with blander things; I was trying to have fruit separately at all times, since I have heard a lot that it is better to eat fruit alone. So much for that. I have also heard about the hybridizing issue, which makes sense.

I will check out your links. And some good news after touching base with my nutritionist friend: I managed to put on a pound!

Thank you again Phil, and I wish you the best in all your riceyness. ;-)

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This is NOT recommended as part of the diet!
      #174287 - 04/27/05 07:48 AM
Linz

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 8242
Loc: England

Romaine lettuce is Not a good thing for IBS (nor any lettuce) and 1 banana is not enough of a SF base to have a salad IMHO!

If you're going to post diet advice on her for IBSers can you keep it to the IBS guidelines? This would make many people very ill.

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Re: This is NOT recommended as part of the diet!
      #174321 - 04/27/05 08:34 AM
Phil-AZ

Reged: 04/16/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Sunny AZ

Actually Linz, if you read the links I posted about fructose malabsorption, you will see that it is the sugars in the Banana that cause IBS in many people, and reducing the sugars with the fiber in lettuce, will have more of a positive effect on IBS than the small amount of insoluble fiber in lettuce would cause.

If you just want people to parrot the IBS guidelines that you adhere to, then why is this a discussion board? If you want to keep an open mind, and hear what others find works for them, perhaps some progress can be made, otherwise, I guess you are just satisfied where you are, and we can just talk about the weather.



--------------------
Phil

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